There are a few things mosses did
1. turned the nile to blood (not sure how to do this)
2.plage of frog (command animals, summons)
3.lice(Summon swarms)
4.flies(Same thing)
5.Pestilance (Plague Storm)
6.boils (not sure)
7.Locusts (Summon Swarms is there anything it can't do)
8.Darkness (no idea)
9.slaying the frist born (no idea)
hail somewhere in there.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Moses was kind of a jerk, wasn't he?
Low level priest who found a staff of miracle - there's your ten charges.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
And this is really a topic that should be avoided at all costs. Mixing real-life religions and fantasy roleplaying is a bad, bad idea.
Master Arminas
Yeah, I'd hate to see stats for Thor or anything : )
Seriously, there are a ton of cleric spells based on the various events that happen in the vicinity of Moses. And I'd say whether a cleric's spells are something he does or something a deity does through him is a matter of flavor.
I do miss the D&D supplement I used to have, that I can't find anymore, that had stats for Greek, Egyptian, and Norse gods (and another pantheon, I think, but I can't remember).
This one? The final pantheon was Greyhawk's, I believe.
What a weird coincidence. Two days ago, while driving with a friend and my son, my boy asked something game-related about Moses, causing my friend to ask what class Moses is.
That in itself isn't too weird, as being lifelong gamers I'm sure most of us ask such questions (I do).
But weird that Moses should show up again a couple days later.
I think Moses is pretty obviously a cleric, but he's a 1st Edition cleric. We used to go through our AD&D books looking for little hints of him in the spells and magic items, etc.
So I cant play a cleric who is so attuned to my deity that my every action supports his or her will? That seems like an odd statement to me.
From a player, gm point of view, obviously there would need to be metagame coordination between the two, but in game I don't see what there has to be a flavor differece.
It is unrealistic to say that you can't talk about modern religions in a game that includes clerical spells like snake staff, earthquake, and miracle, and classes based on priests, prophets, and Buddhist monks.
To the OP, if Moses is doing the plagues without divine intervention, then he is a super high level cleric, I'd say. If you ignore the plagues, then he uses create water, create food, snake staff, and control water.
Also, there is a great supplement by green ronin called,testament that deals with the Old Testament as a campaign setting.
Level 1 Expert.
There are a few things mosses did
1. turned the nile to blood (not sure how to do this)
2.plage of frog (command animals, summons)
3.lice(Summon swarms)
4.flies(Same thing)
5.Pestilance (Plague Storm)
6.boils (not sure)
7.Locusts (Summon Swarms is there anything it can't do)
8.Darkness (no idea)
9.slaying the frist born (no idea)hail somewhere in there.
1. Wish
2. Wish3. Summon Swarms
4. Summon Swarms
5. Plague Storm
6. Wish
7. Summon Swarms
8. Enlarge Deeper Darkness? Ooh, ooh - Wish.
9. Wish
There's a staff in pathfinder APG I think that turns into a snake.
There are a few things mosses did
1. turned the nile to blood (not sure how to do this)
2.plage of frog (command animals, summons)
3.lice(Summon swarms)
4.flies(Same thing)
5.Pestilance (Plague Storm)
6.boils (not sure)
7.Locusts (Summon Swarms is there anything it can't do)
8.Darkness (no idea)
9.slaying the frist born (no idea)hail somewhere in there.
You know, technically, Moses didn't do even one of these things.
That was old-testament god work, there.
and Paladin 3.
Just no.Hell No.
There are a few things mosses did
1. turned the nile to blood (not sure how to do this)
2.plage of frog (command animals, summons)
3.lice(Summon swarms)
4.flies(Same thing)
5.Pestilance (Plague Storm)
6.boils (not sure)
7.Locusts (Summon Swarms is there anything it can't do)
8.Darkness (no idea)
9.slaying the frist born (no idea)hail somewhere in there.
1. Wish
2. Wish
3. Summon Swarms
4. Summon Swarms
5. Plague Storm
6. Wish
7. Summon Swarms
8. Enlarge Deeper Darkness? Ooh, ooh - Wish.
9. Wish
1. Consider this a version of the water to mud etc spells. Maybe metamagic feat to enlarge the volume. Or just an impressive illusion
2. For all of the summon <creature> events, treat it like a normal (but maybe older ed D&D) spell. A mundane frog probably has something like 1/10 of a Hit Dice (if even that muc).
3 - 4, 7. See 2, or Summon Swarm or Creeping Doom.
5 - 6. Plague Storm or a super mega Curse or Diseas spell
8. Metamagic'd Deepr Darkness or a high level illusion
9. This, too could be done by a higher level summoning/conjuration spell. Open a gate for a greater celestial being to come forth.
Aristocrat 1/Commoner 1/Oracle N.
Based on his life story, anyway.
|
There are two ways to treat this:
First, the plagues and all the other things that occurred while Moses was around were due to him casting spells and channeling divine power. In that case Moses is fairly high level as country or city spanning effects tend to be. Keep in mind that the plagues were not the only thing: water from a rock, manna from heaven, parting the sea, I think a flock of doves came along for food too, Ark of the Covenant (magic item in D&D terms). There might be a few more I am forgetting.
Second, Moses did a very few things (staff into snake), water from rock. These can be replicated with cantrips or 1st level spells, Create Water & Summon Monster I.
...Oracle 20, Lame Curse (and babbling). No need to discuss here.
|
Moses was kind of a jerk, wasn't he?
Low level priest who found a staff of miracle - there's your ten charges.
I smell Terrorist.
I would have gone with charlatan/cult leader with knowledge of tides (Egyptian History +12), Chemical Weapons (Alchemy+12), Biological Warfare (Medicine +12), Plant based water dyes(Herbalist+8), Leadership Feat and Opportunity.
Volcano erupts throwing ash over world and making the sky dark...
Mosus: Yea b@#@&es that's all down to my God being more powerful than yours.
Also, there is a great supplement by green ronin called,testament that deals with the Old Testament as a campaign setting.
Ooh. Does it have stats for the jawbone of an ass?
|
The stories of the Abrahamic Gods and dieties don't lend themselves to D20 or any other style of gaming.
I would have to disagree with you here...
As has been stated up-thread, Green Ronin put out a d20 sourcebook for 3.0 called: "Testament: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era"...
While not a great book, it was fairly good IMHO...
It is still available here on Paizo for $2.00 (dead tree)...
|
Let me preface this by saying I have plenty of respect for Judaism and Christianity, and am interested in seeing it statted up just like the older religions I have respect for. This thread has the potential to turn into a flame war...let's be nice about it.
One way to explain his powers is that Moses had enough divination spells (especially commune or contact other plane) to know what the Hebrew god was planning to do. I think it says in the Bible that the deity spoke to Moses and Moses merely relayed the threats to the Pharaoh.
I wouldn't make him insanely high level, just high enough to get snake staff (so 9th level cleric). Most of what he did was prophecy, which can be achieved with Commune (5th level spell). And it's possible the Hebrew god could grant the weather domain, and water domain, for parting the sea and making hail storms.
|
|
While I have a lot of respect for Green Ronin, this does not translate to blind acceptance of what they put out.
There's a lot of stuff Green Ronin put out that I did not like. I only mentioned them as they are the company that happened to have published the product...
I'm not going to say that the Walls of Jericho collapsed because Moses prayed for a bunch of Player's Handbook spells.
Certainly there are a few concessions that must be made in order to use the d20 system for something such as this, but we as gamers make hundreds of them when playing any RPG...
D20 at it's root is a wargame, it is simply not suitable for telling a story like this which is better handled on a narrative basis, not simulationist.
The rules have yet to get in my way of telling the stories I want to tell...
YMMV...
For such purposes Ars Magica, which narrative mechanics are the lifeblood of the game is far more suitable.
I'm sure it's a great system...
And while I play other game systems, I always come back to D&D (now Pathfinder) for my games as a main-stay. So it is nice to have available a d20 option that interests me written for the system I run the most...
Again, YMMV and that's fine...
I happen to like d20, and do not have any problems telling the stories I wish to tell using the rules (which is why I disagreed with you in the first place)...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Ars Magica was the "root system" for the original "Storyteller" system championed by White Wolf.
And knowing is half the battle.
G.I. JOE!!!!!
(The system was actually created with faith-based Christian spell slingers in mind.)
All that being said, when the Old Testament is read it's quite clear that D20 is suitable for biblical campaigns. The New Testament . . . not so exciting to me. Besides, this is a thought exercise, right? There would actually be no reason to stat up Moses.
I would count most of his tricks as incantations more then a sign of a spell casting class.
I think we're all agreed on the weather domain. Staff to snake was designed from this narrative, Leadership feat for sure. he was very devout (read: high level) and was a leader of people, while still not being a warrior.
My vote is oracle. the affliction is up for debate, but lame would be fine.
To those who claim that D&D/Pathfinder are inappropriate for telling biblical stories: St. Michael fought a dragon. Witches, unicorns, and the aknowledgement of other gods are built in to the bible. As far as being tactically based, or using "magic", the bible is a very violent book, and there were more than enough miracles, witches, etc. to justify allowing characters certain spells with a flavour tweak to make it seem more like God granting them rather than the PC's taking power. But again, not to hi-jack the thread: I vote oracle.
AD&D cleric.
See: Sticks to Snakes, Part Water, Create Water, Insect Plague
A rogue with skill focus: UMD for that wicked staff. Who knows WHAT spells are in that staff.
|
|
So instead of just focusing on the plagues at first let us instead look at Moses.
Raised in the house of Pharaoh, as his grandson and the brother of the next Pharoah. So I would say Noble. Baring an NPC class we god with Fighter. Why? well quite simply he would have been taught the combat arts as a member of the royal household.
Then he kills a man and flees through the desert to become a shepard watching his flock. Being generous I would say he then gets a level of Ranger.
He then is confronted by a burning bush telling him that he is now to go back to Egypt and release his people. There are several ways to go here. Cleric or maybe even Paladin. Hard to say, yet when he does make his way to the land of Goshen he is helped by his birth family and it is easy to see that at this point the Cleric is actually his brother Aaron.
He does seem to have at least one "magic item" at this point and it is his staff.
Looking at the plagues
1. Plague of blood - large body of water turned to blood, but also every container nearby also having the same issue. - spell Miracle [staff is raised over the water]
2. Plague of frogs - not just a summon animal spell but so large it at the very least covered a city if not the entire region. - spell Miracle {staff is stretched over the water]
3. Plague of lice -Strikes the dust [with the staff] and the dust of the ground transforms into lice - this is not a summon spell but rather some uber transmutation spell - Spell transformation?
4. Plague of flies or maybe wild animals- this then is a very big summon swarm spell - in fact since the word used is "mixture" it might be a lot of different creatures plaguing the area - spell Summon Swarm
5. Plague of pestilence - a sickness spell of some sort?? Very specific to the region that is being infested by all the other animals. Might not even be a spell, just a side effect of the other plagues making people sick running rampant and then simply claimed as caused by the caster. In a way it would have been, just not directly. - Spell
6. Plague of boils - Moses and Aaron to each take two handfuls of soot from a furnace, which Moses scattered skyward in Pharaoh's presence which then induced skin eruptions on men and livestock. Nasty spell and required both men to cast it. - Spell Maybe a ritual.
7. Plague of hail - big nasty storm with hail stones. So big weather spell. Yet the icy hail caught on fire. - Spell Miracle
8. Plague of locusts - another summon spell maybe - Spell Summon Swarm
9. Plague of darkness - A really really big darkness spell, or since it is listed as something felt.... IDK maybe a large fog cloud type spell
10. Death of the firstborn - A spell causing death to a targeted group. Yet it can think and skip houses with specific markings. Sounds like another summon spell - Spell Planar summons
I would almost guess the staff has a few charges and can cast Miracle spells. It did the same at the reed sea, parting the waters when held aloft. Continue with him getting the commandments and getting upset and fighting those who had back peddled because it was hard. He tossed a tree into the water and the bitter water became sweet.
Also keep in mind not only did Moses know how to fight, he led men into battle after leaving the lands of Egypt, having several military victories. Once again this screams fighter or maybe paladin.
He really comes across as a big zealot paladin with a couple of big artifacts in his possession who then gets a bit big for his britches and gets slapped down and doesn't have a high enough level cleric to cast atonement for him.
My 2cp
|
|
One problem with the Cleric/Paladin/Oracle thing is that I don't remember Moses ever healing anybody. I feel like being a Good character, he would have used those abilities if he had them... And all 3 of those divine classes grant healing. You can't even choose not to have Lay on Hands/channeing and spontaneous casting/all heal spells automatically.
Maybe we should be looking at Inquisitor?
|
|
One problem with the Cleric/Paladin/Oracle thing is that I don't remember Moses ever healing anybody.
Testament actually goes into this at the very beginning of the book. It says that while he did not cure people, nor was his staff enchanted with a Control Water spell (the book's words), the authors were trying to capture the spirit of the Bible and portray the general characteristics of the Biblical characters...
As I said uptread, one has to make a few concessions here and there (something I have no problem doing)...
|
|
One problem with the Cleric/Paladin/Oracle thing is that I don't remember Moses ever healing anybody. I feel like being a Good character, he would have used those abilities if he had them... And all 3 of those divine classes grant healing. You can't even choose not to have Lay on Hands/channeing and spontaneous casting/all heal spells automatically.
Maybe we should be looking at Inquisitor?
No but he fashioned the Nehushtan which was a rod with a bronze serpent on it, which healed those who looked upon it.
More precisely, I'd definitely say Oracle of Lore with the Seer archetype and the Lame curse (I'm very tempted to say Dual-Cursed too, but it doesn't stack with Seer).^^
|
One problem with the Cleric/Paladin/Oracle thing is that I don't remember Moses ever healing anybody. I feel like being a Good character, he would have used those abilities if he had them... And all 3 of those divine classes grant healing. You can't even choose not to have Lay on Hands/channeing and spontaneous casting/all heal spells automatically.
Maybe we should be looking at Inquisitor?
In fact, a Good Oracle can choose to get the Inflict spells (just as an Evil one can get the Cure spells).
A bit of biblical scholar-ing here: If you read the old testament carefully about 2/3rd of what Moses is popularly thought of have done is in fact his brother Aaron with a magic staff granted by God. Moses – high level Oracle, Aaron – High level guy with maxed ranks in UMD, to cover most of the weirder stuff.
Aaron was the older brother, the "official" priest and, more importantly, the material AT writer (Moses talked, he wrote). So Moses = Oracle, Aaron = Priest (as in Tome of Secrets; Good, Knowledge and Magic/Divine domains), and Myriam = Bard^^
I'm surprised that there isn't much mention of druid.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gunslinger.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gunslinger.
The Charlton Heston version anyhow. ;-)
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm surprised that people mention Paladin,when the OT God is clearly NOT LG... I'd give him LN, the very definition, even 'Worship me or Else...'
That’s a matter of interpretation. The God of the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) has always been portrayed as a God of both Law AND Good. But this is not the Off Topic part of the forum so that is all I'm going to say on the matter...