AM BARBARIAN Build


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Not read the whole thread as its growing too fast but i had a little thought.

I don't want to rehash old arguments but assuming my diviner goes first and manages not to sucumb to ragelancepounce in the first second could i not just maze the mount? Maze is a staple level 8 spell with no save and once the mount is mazed it is no longer raging etc, also AM is falling and cannot spell sunder the maze effect which is suddenly an increasing number of feet above him. In the worst case scenario it gets spell turned and i get mazed myself, plane shift back and re maze the mount. AM falls to ground, i lol and greater teleport home.

Divinier rolls suprise initiative and casts greater invisibility, AM moves into arcane sight range but can't ragelancepounce as he has only just spotted his target, diviner mazes batty bat and either AM drops to the ground or the spell is reflected and the diviner is mazed, quickened plane shift out somewhere within 500 miles of AM, presumably AM being a casty smasher will go and spell sunder the maze effect then be disappointed the diviner doesn't appear, diviner greater teleports back and mazes batty bat again?

Sound like a fair plan? As a high end mage those are all reasonable spells to memorise any day including one picking flowers in a field. Quickened plane shift to go back to my private demiplane, maze to make things go away while i leave, teleport magic for ease of moving, invisibility and some other defensive stuff, divinations for spider sense.

Nothing schrodingery about those spells, i'd most if not all of them memorised every day no matter what anyway.


Can we knock off all this nonsense and actually post some builds? So what if it isn't "Perfect" yet. JUST START PUTTING IT TOGETHER.

Won't figure out anything by theory-crafting.

I'm callin. Show yer hands boyos.


Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.


I'm pretty sure

Egoish wrote:
assuming my diviner goes first and manages not to sucumb to ragelancepounce in the first

is where your argument collapses.

Since the whole point of all of this is he rains death from the sky at an impossible distance that takes you totally by surprise. If you counter with "yeah, but what if you don't? Then I'd _________"...it's not really a counter.


Gruuuu wrote:

Can we knock off all this nonsense and actually post some builds? So what if it isn't "Perfect" yet. JUST START PUTTING IT TOGETHER.

Won't figure out anything by theory-crafting.

I'm callin. Show yer hands boyos.

Fine.

Casty
Male human wizard 20
N Medium humanoid (human)

...it's a work in progress...


Master summoner. At 20th level, I will have at least 15 uses of my SLA.

I will have Superior Summons.

I will be surrounded by 67.5 T-Rexes. You ask where other half of T-Rex is? You do not want to know.

They will be organized in such a way that AM cannot ragesunderpounce all of them.

They will be adjacent to each other, so they AM will provoke from them. One of them is bound to Grab him.

I r winnar.


Doggan wrote:
Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.

Mother is dead. Casty killed her.

Sovereign Court

When all powerful theory wizards are struggling to find corner cases to beat a Barbarian, you know hes the winner. These are the same "aha" theory wizards that are assumed to know every spell and have any buff or defence they need for the argument- and Trinam's been a lot more clear about what AM BARBARIAN's build is than these vague, made of air wizards thrown against him.


What is AM BARBARIAN's maximum charge distance while mounted?


Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.
Mother is dead. Casty killed her.

Do I even need to state the obvious ways that death is never permanent?


Doggan wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.
Mother is dead. Casty killed her.
Do I even need to state the obvious ways that death is never permanent?

Nah, but AM should regale us with the stories of his mother's death.


An interesting thing to consider is that an 18th level cohort has a max of 75k in equipment, of which 23k can be protective items. (96k/28k if heroic) It's already been claimed that he has 106k in items (Ring of spell turning, boots of speed) of which 100k are protective items.


Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.
Mother is dead. Casty killed her.
Do I even need to state the obvious ways that death is never permanent?
Nah, but AM should regale us with the stories of his mother's death.

And imagine the utter shock when she's suddenly alive. I imagine the woman that birthed AM would put RAGEWHATEVER to shame.


Skyth wrote:
An interesting thing to consider is that an 18th level cohort has a max of 75k in equipment, of which 23k can be protective items. (96k/28k if heroic) It's already been claimed that he has 106k in items (Ring of spell turning, boots of speed) of which 100k are protective items.

AM gave him some of his money.


Doggan wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.
Mother is dead. Casty killed her.
Do I even need to state the obvious ways that death is never permanent?
Nah, but AM should regale us with the stories of his mother's death.
And imagine the utter shock when she's suddenly alive. I imagine the woman that birthed AM would put RAGEWHATEVER to shame.

That would mean that casty did magic on her, so he would ragelancepounce her to end her misery.


Cheapy wrote:
That would mean that casty did magic on her, so he would ragelancepounce her to end her misery.

So when is he going to kill himself because he has permanent arcane sight? (still trying to figure out how he cast that on himself without UMD)


ecw1701 wrote:
I'm pretty sure
Egoish wrote:
assuming my diviner goes first and manages not to sucumb to ragelancepounce in the first

is where your argument collapses.

Since the whole point of all of this is he rains death from the sky at an impossible distance that takes you totally by surprise. If you counter with "yeah, but what if you don't? Then I'd _________"...it's not really a counter.

i don't understand peoples over reactions on this subject, we're theory crafting characters with no set statline and indeterminate abilities. Of course something designed to kill a wizard will kill a wizard, the neat trick of AM is that he is also viable in a non wizard killing capacity. On the other hand not all wizards are diviners so the post i made was an example of a particularly paranoid wizard.

you mistook my politeness for the fact that before AM suprises me and rage lance pounces that we have a suprise round and roll initiative, the diviner wins and can act in the suprise round and turns invisible and moves.

Forwarned means that before i get ragelancepounced i can avoid getting ragelancepounced, and dispite the fact it would take a paranoid wizard to do that we have to play that paranoid in a world where death charges you from outside visual range.

I have no doubt that AM is a strong character in his own right but i'm sure a wizard of strong enough paranoia can survive. I also don't believe in the C-MD godling as we all run around in mixed groups anyway, AM is an interesting theory however.

On another note perhaps a skinir magus could get a high enough AC to invalidate ragelancepounce entirely?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Doggan wrote:
Summon AM BARBARIAN MOTHER. No matter how much RAGELANCEPOUNCE you can do, mom always wins.
Mother is dead. Casty killed her.
Do I even need to state the obvious ways that death is never permanent?
Nah, but AM should regale us with the stories of his mother's death.
And imagine the utter shock when she's suddenly alive. I imagine the woman that birthed AM would put RAGEWHATEVER to shame.
That would mean that casty did magic on her, so he would ragelancepounce her to end her misery.

Death, the nursing home for elderly barbarians.

"Come on Mom, It will be nice. All your friends are there."


drumlord wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
That would mean that casty did magic on her, so he would ragelancepounce her to end her misery.
So when is he going to kill himself because he has permanent arcane sight? (still trying to figure out how he cast that on himself without UMD)

I'm assuming he tried on the hat of some poor wizard, which had +2 int and UMD ranks in it, then useed a scroll.


drumlord wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
That would mean that casty did magic on her, so he would ragelancepounce her to end her misery.
So when is he going to kill himself because he has permanent arcane sight? (still trying to figure out how he cast that on himself without UMD)

Yes.

Shadow Lodge

Right after AM kills all castys, he will slay all the gods of magic, sunder Magic itself, then kill Batty Bat, and finally himself.


KrispyXIV wrote:
drumlord wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
That would mean that casty did magic on her, so he would ragelancepounce her to end her misery.
So when is he going to kill himself because he has permanent arcane sight? (still trying to figure out how he cast that on himself without UMD)
I'm assuming he tried on the hat of some poor wizard, which had +2 int and UMD ranks in it, then useed a scroll.

It is going to be hard for AM to keep in stock of scrolls.

AM walks into a shop to buy scrolls.
AM sees that shopkeeper is a casty.
AM kills shopkeeper....

Hell, no wizard is going to want to go within a mile of AM, so how is he going to get a permenant anything? I am surprised his cohort is still alive....

AM's weakness is going to be telling friend from foe, because you generally can't run around killing every caster you see without some kind of consequences.


KrispyXIV wrote:
I'm assuming he tried on the hat of some poor wizard, which had +2 int and UMD ranks in it, then useed a scroll.

Trinam said the build doesn't use UMD.


Sunglasses of Arcane Sight.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cheapy wrote:
Sunglasses of Arcane Sight.

Must have gotten them at the same shop casty got his cravat of immunity to damage.

edit: it occurs to me that this game does not have enough cravats in it.


drumlord wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Sunglasses of Arcane Sight.
Must have gotten them at the same shop casty got his cravat of immunity to damage.

Is there a spell that just makes you immune to damage?


For s+&+s and giggles, sunglasses of greater arcane sight would cost 364,000 gp.

Sunglasses of arcane sight are 60k.

Liberty's Edge

My caster's a run-of-the-mill wizard, with a 17th-level cleric as my cohort. I've got invisiblility, mirror image, displacement, mind blank, and a few other spells up. My cleric buddy has a bunch, one of which is shield other. I'll cast waves of exhaustion, so AM is done after one spell sunder. I'll still be alive, because he can't do enough damage to kill me, thanks to shield other.

Killing AM at this point is left as an exercise for the reader.


DeathSpot wrote:
I've got invisiblility, mirror image, displacement, mind blank, and a few other spells up. My cleric buddy has a bunch, one of which is shield other.

At what point do you put these spells up? Before or after being charged by AM?


Iron Body was promising, but there's no way you'd want a continuous version of that.

Oh, I found a spell that would stop him! Arcane Cannon. He'd find your ability to cast it it too awesome to kill you.


Important Question for AM BARBARIAN: My witch has like +ridiculous Bluff. She exclaims to AM as he charges (talking out of turn is a free action, "I am not a spellcaster.", and rolls her ridiculous Bluff score (less than 50 seconds of talking too!). What do?

Do I survive?


KrispyXIV wrote:

Important Question for AM BARBARIAN: My witch has like +ridiculous Bluff. She exclaims to AM as he charges (talking out of turn is a free action, "I am not a spellcaster.", and rolls her ridiculous Bluff score (less than 50 seconds of talking too!). What do?

Do I survive?

Two problems!

One, it's a -20 penalty for being an impossible lie. Or at least -10.

Second, it takes a round to deceive someone.


Cheapy wrote:

They will be adjacent to each other, so they AM will provoke from them. One of them is bound to Grab him.

I r winnar.

Can't Grab with an AoO unless you manage to get an AoO on your own turn. Grab is a free action, and (unless otherwise stated, such as for speaking) free actions cannot be done outside your turn.

Liberty's Edge

KrispyXIV wrote:

Important Question for AM BARBARIAN: My witch has like +ridiculous Bluff. She exclaims to AM as he charges (talking out of turn is a free action, "I am not a spellcaster.", and rolls her ridiculous Bluff score (less than 50 seconds of talking too!). What do?

Do I survive?

from the bluff skill under actions:

Deceive Someone: Attempting to deceive someone takes at least 1 round, but can possibly take longer if the lie is elaborate (as determined by the GM on a case-by-case basis).

Liberty's Edge

drumlord wrote:
KrispyXIV wrote:
I'm assuming he tried on the hat of some poor wizard, which had +2 int and UMD ranks in it, then useed a scroll.
Trinam said the build doesn't use UMD.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he said the opposite. That's what the whole "He got a +2 to intelligence Ioun Stone and used it once then put it in his bag and forgot about it" comes from.


Fozbek wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

They will be adjacent to each other, so they AM will provoke from them. One of them is bound to Grab him.

I r winnar.

Can't Grab with an AoO unless you manage to get an AoO on your own turn. Grab is a free action, and (unless otherwise stated, such as for speaking) free actions cannot be done outside your turn.

Not true, my friend.

This makes it clear that you can use Free Actions with AoOs.


Cheapy wrote:
Fozbek wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

They will be adjacent to each other, so they AM will provoke from them. One of them is bound to Grab him.

I r winnar.

Can't Grab with an AoO unless you manage to get an AoO on your own turn. Grab is a free action, and (unless otherwise stated, such as for speaking) free actions cannot be done outside your turn.

Not true, my friend.

This makes it clear that you can use Free Actions with AoOs.

Actually, it makes clear that you can use a specific free action with AoOs. It doesn't make any judgement on free actions in general.

That said, I was being quite nitpicky. I wouldn't enforce that in my own games.


Trinam wrote:


Here is my stated tactic:

'If AM absolutely needs to kill something in some kind of indoor structure, he will use Profession (Engineer) to determine how to implode the building through sundering vital support structures, then do that.'

What's the damage from a falling building/cave/etc, again?

At this point its just amusing to play CASTY VS AM. So that said, if you are a wizard who decides to challenge AM. Heres some ideas.

A 3 dimentional maze with subjective gravity. Like the astral plane, IIRC. This is a building that blocks charge lanes and cannot be collapsed, but eventually will be sundered, but as a maze, there are alot of walls to sunder, this gives you some time. Now you need a way to attack and target spells. Divination spells and a crystal ball, and maybe some crafting on the maze, It's your fortress, build it to your advantage.

Or, if you are desperate. (Hint: you probably am desperate) Drop a stack of wishes down, and start stripping away AM's abilitys. The permanent arcane sight is easy, then take away other abilitys, imposing massive penalties to saves first if necessary.

Third strategy: Mirror of Opposition.....fight AM with AM


Fozbek wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Fozbek wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

They will be adjacent to each other, so they AM will provoke from them. One of them is bound to Grab him.

I r winnar.

Can't Grab with an AoO unless you manage to get an AoO on your own turn. Grab is a free action, and (unless otherwise stated, such as for speaking) free actions cannot be done outside your turn.

Not true, my friend.

This makes it clear that you can use Free Actions with AoOs.

Actually, it makes clear that you can use a specific free action with AoOs. It doesn't make any judgement on free actions in general.

That said, I was being quite nitpicky. I wouldn't enforce that in my own games.

I was waiting for someone to try to make that argument :)

The reason why you can reload the weapon is because it's a free action that is being done as part of your AoO. The assumption, as the question states, is that reloading is a free action. The importance is the definition of reloading your weapon as a free action.

The free action is what allows you to reload it.

Anyways, I was just hoping the FAQ would be clear enough to people.

Because the PRD states that free actions can be done as a part of another action. :)

This was all discussed in the post that spawned that FAQ. Amusingly, even without that clarification that due to the free action of reloading your weapon (clearly barring items that you can't normally reload as a free action), one could still reload simply by shouting something.

The PRD says that speaking is a free action and that free actions can be made as a part of other actions.

So you just shout "FIRING!" and you can reload as a part of that action :D


ShadowcatX wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty sure he said the opposite. That's what the whole "He got a +2 to intelligence Ioun Stone and used it once then put it in his bag and forgot about it" comes from.

I don't know how often he's changing his mind, but as of yesterday, no UMD


i did a quick bit of math at work and i think i can get a skinir magus with an arcane bonded buckler and a two level fighter rondelero style dip with the taldan duelist feat and some other bits up to between armour class 60 and 70 without combat expertise or fighting defensively, i'm still a casty cause i can cast using my buckler hand and still use spell combat as well as that i can two weapon fight with my buckler for a retarded ammount of weak attacks in a round.

i suspect that AM would not be able to ragelancepounce such a high armour class with enough destrucity and be able to survive getting hit by five (one cast, one quickened, one spell combat, one shield stored and one weapon stored) lots of 22d6 shocking grasp (17-20/x2 crit) + incidental weapon damage from my falcata + buckler combo in return.

Its a somewhat cheating casty but its a casty none the less.

Lantern Lodge

Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.

He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).

He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.


twells wrote:

Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.

He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).

He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.

He sunders them normally.

Note: I'm only guessing.


Egoish wrote:

i did a quick bit of math at work and i think i can get a skinir magus with an arcane bonded buckler and a two level fighter rondelero style dip with the taldan duelist feat and some other bits up to between armour class 60 and 70 without combat expertise or fighting defensively, i'm still a casty cause i can cast using my buckler hand and still use spell combat as well as that i can two weapon fight with my buckler for a retarded ammount of weak attacks in a round.

i suspect that AM would not be able to ragelancepounce such a high armour class with enough destrucity and be able to survive getting hit by five (one cast, one quickened, one spell combat, one shield stored and one weapon stored) lots of 22d6 shocking grasp (17-20/x2 crit) + incidental weapon damage from my falcata + buckler combo in return.

Its a somewhat cheating casty but its a casty none the less.

I believe a casty means any 9 spell level casters, and Summoners. The rest are martials who just happen to have spells :)


drumlord wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty sure he said the opposite. That's what the whole "He got a +2 to intelligence Ioun Stone and used it once then put it in his bag and forgot about it" comes from.
I don't know how often he's changing his mind, but as of yesterday, no UMD

My apologies. To clarify, that meant 'I am not a character who relies on umding a bunch of spells to fake being a wizard in order to kill a squishy casty.'


Cheapy wrote:
twells wrote:

Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.

He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).

He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.

He sunders them normally.

Note: I'm only guessing.

Yep. Smasher rage power. They have no hardness. It might take two whole hits.

Lantern Lodge

Cheapy wrote:
twells wrote:

Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.

He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).

He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.

He sunders them normally.

Note: I'm only guessing.

So what would prevent a casty (especially a sorcerer) from using this tactic every round? Quickening a instantaneous barrier and saving his standard spell slot for taking out AM or batty? AM has to spend his time destroying each barrier each round.


Egoish wrote:

i did a quick bit of math at work and i think i can get a skinir magus with an arcane bonded buckler and a two level fighter rondelero style dip with the taldan duelist feat and some other bits up to between armour class 60 and 70 without combat expertise or fighting defensively, i'm still a casty cause i can cast using my buckler hand and still use spell combat as well as that i can two weapon fight with my buckler for a retarded ammount of weak attacks in a round.

i suspect that AM would not be able to ragelancepounce such a high armour class with enough destrucity and be able to survive getting hit by five (one cast, one quickened, one spell combat, one shield stored and one weapon stored) lots of 22d6 shocking grasp (17-20/x2 crit) + incidental weapon damage from my falcata + buckler combo in return.

Its a somewhat cheating casty but its a casty none the less.

WHAT AM CMD WHEN FIGHTING DEFENSIVELY?

BARBARIAN ASK BECAUSE BARBARIAN FIND TALDAN DUELISTS NOT DUEL SO WELL WITHOUT ARMOR, SHIELD OR WEAPON.


A 20th CL Wall of Stone will have 75 HP, due to being 5 inches thick.

Alternatively, it requires a DC 30 Strength check.

I think AM has got that one.


twells wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
twells wrote:

Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.

He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).

He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.

He sunders them normally.

Note: I'm only guessing.

So what would prevent a casty (especially a sorcerer) from using this tactic every round? Quickening a instantaneous barrier and saving his standard spell slot for taking out AM or batty? AM has to spend his time destroying each barrier each round.

AM charging the wall, smashing it with ride-by attack and moving through it and out of the wall into melee with the caster?

Mind you I am speaking hypothetically. Wall of Stone ALSO gives a reflex save to avoid being encased.

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