So what would prevent a casty (especially a sorcerer) from using this tactic every round? Quickening a instantaneous barrier and saving his standard spell slot for taking out AM or batty? AM has to spend his time destroying each barrier each round.Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.
He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).
He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.
He sunders them normally.
Note: I'm only guessing.
Where would the casty place it? Around himself? Otherwise, how does he know where the barbarian will come from? How does he know the right height to make it to stop the flying batty bat?
If he casts it around himself, then AM just destroys the wall with one attack, 5' steps, and kills the casty.
I have it:
Then cast Wish that you will always appear as AM BARBARIAN to any AM BARBARIANS who see you, which should work...unless they find a way to sunder Wish.
Backup plan: Cast Shapechange daily, and fly around looking like a batty bat...and run like hell from any other batty bats with Barbarian shaped masses clinging to their backs.
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Precisely!
The best way to deal with AM is really to not deal with AM.
Nobody wants to listen. :(
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Honestly, I think AM could save against Wish.
Yes, I know it doesn't usually have a saving throw.
I have it:
Then cast Wish that you will always appear as AM BARBARIAN to any AM BARBARIANS who see you, which should work...unless they find a way to sunder Wish.Backup plan: Cast Shapechange daily, and fly around looking like a batty bat...and run like hell from any other batty bats with Barbarian shaped masses clinging to their backs.
OR cast shapechange on yourself, and your familiar to make *it* look like a Casty, and you like...well...a non casty...*then* rain death down on AM BARBARIAN once your familiar makes the ultimate sacrifice.
Honestly, I think AM could save against Wish.
Yes, I know it doesn't usually have a saving throw.
Well, since he rejects the Gods and the magic they created, I think AM BARBARIAN should get a roll to disbelieve any and all magic effects.
"FIREBALL"..."DISBELIEVE"
Honestly, I think AM could save against Wish.
Yes, I know it doesn't usually have a saving throw.
Well, since he rejects the Gods and the magic they created, I think AM BARBARIAN should get a roll to disbelieve any and all magic effects.
"FIREBALL"..."DISBELIEVE"
He doesn't reject the gods. He wore Gorum at least once.
He just sunders their works and their direct divine castings of stuff if they get in his way.
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Did AM wear Gorum as a cloak or as a breastplate?Honestly, I think AM could save against Wish.
Yes, I know it doesn't usually have a saving throw.
Well, since he rejects the Gods and the magic they created, I think AM BARBARIAN should get a roll to disbelieve any and all magic effects.
"FIREBALL"..."DISBELIEVE"
He doesn't reject the gods. He wore Gorum at least once.
He just sunders their works and their direct divine castings of stuff if they get in his way.
Yes.
So what would prevent a casty (especially a sorcerer) from using this tactic every round? Quickening a instantaneous barrier and saving his standard spell slot for taking out AM or batty? AM has to spend his time destroying each barrier each round.
That fact that wall of stone is a 5th level spell, quickened it's 9th. It's hardness will be ignored, and it only has 75 hitpoints (a single attack) or a dc 30 strength check to bust (trivial). Wall of Iron is 6th level, and is only really feasible to quicken with a rod. It will have 150 hitpoints (which I still think is one attack) or a dc 35 strength check(which won't be a problem with strength surge).
AmBarb has more rounds of rage from his consitution bonus then you have 5th or 6th level slots, so you will run out before he runs out. Also the walls don't seem to provide a ceiling, so he simply has to fly over top of you(maybe you can with wall of stone, it seems unclear).
Cheapy clearly cast invisibility on his posts, he's a caster, kill him.
i did a quick bit of math at work and i think i can get a skinir magus with an arcane bonded buckler and a two level fighter rondelero style dip with the taldan duelist feat and some other bits up to between armour class 60 and 70 without combat expertise or fighting defensively, i'm still a casty cause i can cast using my buckler hand and still use spell combat as well as that i can two weapon fight with my buckler for a retarded ammount of weak attacks in a round.
i suspect that AM would not be able to ragelancepounce such a high armour class with enough destrucity and be able to survive getting hit by five (one cast, one quickened, one spell combat, one shield stored and one weapon stored) lots of 22d6 shocking grasp (17-20/x2 crit) + incidental weapon damage from my falcata + buckler combo in return.
Its a somewhat cheating casty but its a casty none the less.
WHAT AM CMD WHEN FIGHTING DEFENSIVELY?
BARBARIAN ASK BECAUSE BARBARIAN FIND TALDAN DUELISTS NOT DUEL SO WELL WITHOUT ARMOR, SHIELD OR WEAPON.
i have no doubt that strength surge and smasher could probably mess up my +5 mithral full plate and my +5 mithral buckler as well as my +5 adamantium shield spike or even my +5 adamantium flacata but there are draw backs and counters, did another quick bit of math and CMD would be in the high 40's or low 50's unless i can find a way to add my shield bonus to it which i am sure there is but i cannot find at the moment.
i think a magus could probably drop AM in a round or two while he messes around sundering things, even then strength surge and smasher are only usable once per rage and spell combating ray of exhaustion with close range would ruin AM's day for rage cycling, even without using intensified empowered shocking grasps the magus build would be able to dump spell effects with no save onto AM while keeping up dealing damage with its normal weapons.
As well as that a well prepared magus would definately have a few make whole's available to cast incase of sundering, as well as the mending cantrip which would at least keep the AC bonuses active.
Now we mention it i think my first action would probably be a spell combat disintigrate sunder action on Observed State using a quickened true strike to even the score a little, the disintigrate will probably get saved down to lower damage but the adamantium falcata will finish it off, sadly once the lance is broken then AM is going to have to claw me with his beast totem power claws for pitiful damage and no enchacement bonus.
After i have wiped his blood and tears off my armour i can go back to picking flowers and keeping my eye out for that C-MD godling that i need to have a word with, after all there is no C-MD if you are both casty and martial.
Edit: and thats without me using leadership or cheesing antagonise so you flail weakly against my AC insted of sundering (which i'm not sure would work but would be funny). heh!
I did what now?
i did a quick bit of math at work and i think i can get a skinir magus with an arcane bonded buckler and a two level fighter rondelero style dip with the taldan duelist feat and some other bits up to between armour class 60 and 70 without combat expertise or fighting defensively, i'm still a casty cause i can cast using my buckler hand and still use spell combat as well as that i can two weapon fight with my buckler for a retarded ammount of weak attacks in a round.
i suspect that AM would not be able to ragelancepounce such a high armour class with enough destrucity and be able to survive getting hit by five (one cast, one quickened, one spell combat, one shield stored and one weapon stored) lots of 22d6 shocking grasp (17-20/x2 crit) + incidental weapon damage from my falcata + buckler combo in return.
Its a somewhat cheating casty but its a casty none the less.
WHAT AM CMD WHEN FIGHTING DEFENSIVELY?
BARBARIAN ASK BECAUSE BARBARIAN FIND TALDAN DUELISTS NOT DUEL SO WELL WITHOUT ARMOR, SHIELD OR WEAPON.
i have no doubt that strength surge and smasher could probably mess up my +5 mithral full plate and my +5 mithral buckler as well as my +5 adamantium shield spike or even my +5 adamantium flacata but there are draw backs and counters.
i think a magus could probably drop AM in a round or two while he messes around sundering things, even then strength surge and smasher are only usable once per rage and spell combating ray of exhaustion with close range would ruin AM's day for rage cycling, even without using intensified empowered shocking grasps the magus build would be able to dump spell effects with no save onto AM while keeping up dealing damage with its normal weapons.
As well as that a well prepared magus would definately have a few make whole's available to cast incase of sundering, as well as the mending cantrip which would at least keep the AC bonuses active.
Now we mention it i think my first action would probably be a...
I'd like you to note a couple of things here.
1. You are rolling CMB against something with a remarkably high CMD.
2. You are rolling touch attacks against something with a conservative estimated touch attack of about 20 something. That's still low I think.
3. It has already been explained how AM Barbarian is getting around fatigue and crushing it utterly even. Can he be fatigued? Yes, but only through multiple rounds of effort.
4. Observed State is slapping theoretical barriers real and imagined with a ludicrous force and he only really has to destroy one or two things to make your life difficult. For example, your spell component pouch. I pray Lord Armor Casty took eschew materials.
Lastly, you cannot hope to defeat the Caster-Martial Disparity God while simultaneously feeding him. It has been since before CoDzilla's roamed the earth. It will be there when the magus is but a bitter memory in the hearts of grognards.
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i did a quick bit of math at work and i think i can get a skinir magus with an arcane bonded buckler and a two level fighter rondelero style dip with the taldan duelist feat and some other bits up to between armour class 60 and 70 without combat expertise or fighting defensively, i'm still a casty cause i can cast using my buckler hand and still use spell combat as well as that i can two weapon fight with my buckler for a retarded ammount of weak attacks in a round.
i suspect that AM would not be able to ragelancepounce such a high armour class with enough destrucity and be able to survive getting hit by five (one cast, one quickened, one spell combat, one shield stored and one weapon stored) lots of 22d6 shocking grasp (17-20/x2 crit) + incidental weapon damage from my falcata + buckler combo in return.
Its a somewhat cheating casty but its a casty none the less.
WHAT AM CMD WHEN FIGHTING DEFENSIVELY?
BARBARIAN ASK BECAUSE BARBARIAN FIND TALDAN DUELISTS NOT DUEL SO WELL WITHOUT ARMOR, SHIELD OR WEAPON.
i have no doubt that strength surge and smasher could probably mess up my +5 mithral full plate and my +5 mithral buckler as well as my +5 adamantium shield spike or even my +5 adamantium flacata but there are draw backs and counters, did another quick bit of math and CMD would be in the high 40's or low 50's unless i can find a way to add my shield bonus to it which i am sure there is but i cannot find at the moment.
i think a magus could probably drop AM in a round or two while he messes around sundering things, even then strength surge and smasher are only usable once per rage and spell combating ray of exhaustion with close range would ruin AM's day for rage cycling, even without using intensified empowered shocking grasps the magus build would be able to dump spell effects with no save onto AM while keeping up dealing damage with its normal weapons.
As well as that a well prepared magus would definately have a few make whole's...
Uhmm if I may be so bold as to explain what AM BARBARIAN just said (please dont RAGEPOUNCELANCE me), I think what he's saying is on his initial charge if that first swing doesn't hit because of your rediculous AC (we know it would but lets humor the casty) he'd follow up with the next 3-4 swings completely destroying (not breaking but DESTROYING it) your armor, then your shield then your weapon (he's a full BAB class wielding a 2hd weapon vs a 3/4bab class wielding a light weapon, he's going to beat that opposed roll) dropping your AC to nothing and preventing you from being able to spellstrike/spell combat (You need a weapon in hand to do that) and ending the round with you disarmed, defenseless and casting in melee with DEATH INCARNATE. All this is assuming he isn't hasted and uses that last attack to sunder your fly spell (or your skull since he can now kill you in 1 hit)and batty bat doesn't attack you also as it flies past.
Good try though, ineffective but thank you for playing.
I gotta say, I love the build. It really doesn't seem all that overpowered for actual gameplay, either. Leaving aside the grudge for casters on the open plains,
1. It's a 20th-level character, they're all crazy.
2. As anybody who's ever played a mounted character can tell you, you're at the mercy of the DM and the environment.
So if you have a good DM, you'll win maybe 30% of your encounters out of the gates, with party backup and DM blessing. The rest of them will have something prepared for your tactics, or +500 special bonus hit points, or tight quarters, or something.
The +30 or so to saves is... pretty good. The DM will probably learn to not target you with Save-or-Dies. He'll figure out how to affect you with things that aren't spells, I bet. (Chaositech?) He'll also learn to find you with things when you aren't raging.
The focus on a Profession is icing on the cake. Imagine the RP potential!
Anyway, looks fun to play!
1. AM's CMD is not that high compared to the basic +50 you get from true strike and magus arcana's, i'm sure if i wanted to cheese it i could get it up above +70.
2. i'm not rolling touch attacks i'm spell combating attacks through my +5 adamantium falcatta since his actual AC and his touch AC are probably about the same (+13 from ghost rager compared to +12 for +5 breastplate and +5 for natural armour from beast totem rage power line) using the weapon actually nets me an extra 10% to hit chance
3. heart of the fields is once per day, if i really tried i'm sure i could hit AM with two rays of exhaustion in a round to really make him exhausted and not a threat, as it is it would take two without devolving into schrodinger's Lord Armour Casty
4. i'm wearing a buckler, i'll grab a new pouch from my handy haversack (on a side note if a spell component pouch is destroyed and i cast mending with spell combat to repair it does it still have components in it, by RAW i think so)
Bah, if i can't kill it can i at least have XP, i'm worried that AM will level to 21 soon and then he will have an unfair advantage, if only people would feed Lord Armour Casty underprepared cavaliers then i might be able to keep up with the stream of casty's AM keeps killing.
mathwei
his highest attack bonus i would work out to be around +40 ish (+20 bab, +15 str, +5 weapon, +5 rage power, -5 power attack) that means his first attack at best has around a 10% hit chance. My CMD is going to be damn high as well since i'm playing what basicly amounts to a caster in a can, you seem to have missed my post with the CMD info in but i think i can probably get that higher, as it is with his current attack bonus he stands around a 40-60% chance of actually suceeding on a sunder with his highest attack bonus.
you also seem to think he can take a full attack with a partial action in a suprise round so he will get a full set of attacks off before i get to act, as far as i am aware that is not the case unless he makes a partial charge, makes one attack and then wins initiative so he gets to full attack me again before i act. I'm also not 100% the first attack would kill me, i think a good defensive skinir magus build would be sat at around 400 hp, if i think back i recall AM doing around 300 damage on a hit?
while i appreciate AM is a very killy character his sundering LAC's stuff is hardly as cut and dry as you make out, also i didn't say i was flying, i said i was picking flowers, i also find it doubtful that any self respecting int 20+ magus would hang around waiting for AM to come around for another RAGELANCEPASS, i'd get the hell out of dodge and force him off the bat to fight me on the ground, either that or let me pick flowers in the nearby forest with the suspiciously low branched trees :D
Well, following the Ex-ex-barbarian thread, the solution to AM BARBARIAN's reign of terror (or reign of benevolent actions ridding the world of annoying castys) is clear:
- Make a law stating that all castys must be smashed on sight.
- Wait for AM to do his thing.
- Having overnight become the champion of upholding law and order, AM suddenly looses his mojo. While still having his BATTY and his LANCE, rage and pounce has left the building.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Can anyone explain to me how AM gets through instantaneous creation spells (such as wall of stone, stone shape, wall of iron, etc) that leave a permanent effect? All of these can be activated in a surprise round.
He can break them, but that takes time/actions. This would give wizzo time to react and set into motion his favorite kill routine (see any number of previous posts for ways to do this).
He cannot spell sunder them, as they are not an on-going spell effect.
The main problem is that both CASTY and AM are flying. You cast your instantaneous creation in between the two of you. Then it falls to the ground, and is no longer in between the two of you (if it's iron), or could maybe be in between if you are within 100' of the ground (a 5' wide, 100' tall WoI), but the parallax on a 5' wide obstruction vs. a charge of the ludicrous distances being usually talked about with AM may very well not block his charge at all.
You could try to trap him inside a wall of stone (unlikely, with his Ref save). Stone shape affects such a small volume that you're unlikely to get much blocking power out of it. Even at an inch thick, you're only getting 360 square feet - so 5' wide and 72' high, shorter than the much thicker Wall of Stone. It's also a touch spell, so you'd have to be on the ground at the base of it (or use Reach Spell).
That's the reason why: If both combatants are flying, your instantaneous creations are going to have a hard time being meaningful obstacles between you.
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Well, following the Ex-ex-barbarian thread, the solution to AM BARBARIAN's reign of terror (or reign of benevolent actions ridding the world of annoying castys) is clear:
- Make a law stating that all castys must be smashed on sight.
- Wait for AM to do his thing.
- Having overnight become the champion of upholding law and order, AM suddenly looses his mojo. While still having his BATTY and his LANCE, rage and pounce has left the building.
AM MAGNIFICENT BASTARD BARBARIAN READ YOUR
AM MAGNIFICENT BASTARD BARBARIAN READ YOURWell, following the Ex-ex-barbarian thread, the solution to AM BARBARIAN's reign of terror (or reign of benevolent actions ridding the world of annoying castys) is clear:
- Make a law stating that all castys must be smashed on sight.
- Wait for AM to do his thing.
- Having overnight become the champion of upholding law and order, AM suddenly looses his mojo. While still having his BATTY and his LANCE, rage and pounce has left the building.
But doesn't this play right into his hands?
If you make it legal to smash all casty's doesn't that mean AM PALADIN suddenly becomes a terrible scourge?
1. AM's CMD is not that high compared to the basic +50 you get from true strike and magus arcana's, i'm sure if i wanted to cheese it i could get it up above +70.
2. i'm not rolling touch attacks i'm spell combating attacks through my +5 adamantium falcatta since his actual AC and his touch AC are probably about the same (+13 from ghost rager compared to +12 for +5 breastplate and +5 for natural armour from beast totem rage power line) using the weapon actually nets me an extra 10% to hit chance
3. heart of the fields is once per day, if i really tried i'm sure i could hit AM with two rays of exhaustion in a round to really make him exhausted and not a threat, as it is it would take two without devolving into schrodinger's Lord Armour Casty
4. i'm wearing a buckler, i'll grab a new pouch from my handy haversack (on a side note if a spell component pouch is destroyed and i cast mending with spell combat to repair it does it still have components in it, by RAW i think so)
1. BARBARIAN CMD WHEN RAGING AM... CARRY TWO... 20+17+4+5+10=56, LOW ESTIMATE. AM ABLE TO BECOME 76 IF ABSOLUTELY NEEDED. AM RARELY ABSOLUTELY NEEDED, BUT AM NICE TO PUSH TARRASQUE OFF IF IT AM GETTING BITE OFF. +50 AM NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AM PROBABLY WANT +66 MINIMUM.
2. GOOD CALL. BARBARIAN TOUCH AC AM ACTUALLY BETTER. WHY? BECAUSE CASTYS AM ALL TRYING TO TOUCH BARBARIAN NONO SPOT.
3. RAYS OF EXHAUSTION AM CRAPPY IDEA. EVEN IF HIT AM GOING TO MAKE SAVE, THIS AM MAKING BARBARIAN FATIGUED. THIS AM NEGATED. THEN IF HIT AGAIN, AM MAKING BARBARIAN FATIGUED. IF HIT THIRD TIME, AM MAKING BARBARIAN EXHAUSTED. CASTY REALLY THINK AM GETTING THREE ATTACKS?
4. MENDING HAVE 10 MINUTE CASTING TIME. AM PROBABLY GOOD IDEA NOT TO CAST IN COMBAT WITH BARBARIAN. JUST SAYING.
FINAL POINT: BARBARIAN HAVE RIDE-BY ATTACK. BARBARIAN AM ABLE TO CHARGE MAGUS, FULL ATTACK, AND THEN MOVE REST OF DISTANCE OUT OF MELEE WITH MAGUS. WITH DRAGON STYLE ON MOUNT FOR PROPER CHARGING THROUGH LOW-HANGY BRANCHES AND SIMILAR DIFFICULT TERRAINS. BARBARIAN NOT PLAY FAIR VERSUS OTHER MARTIALS EITHER.
THOUGH, MAGUS BRING UP GOOD POINT. BARBARIAN KILLED 21 PAGES WORTH OF CASTYS, NOT TO MENTION CASTYS IN THIS THREAD. CASTYS AM ALL LEVEL 20 WITH LEVEL 20 800K GEAR. HALF AM PROBABLY BUFFS... BUT BARBARIAN REASONABLY HAVE AT LEAST COUPLE MILLION GP AT THIS POINT. MORE IF AM ASSUMING CRAFTING DOUBLES CASTY WBL.
1. BARBARIAN CMD WHEN RAGING AM... CARRY TWO... 20+17+4+5+10=56, LOW ESTIMATE. AM ABLE TO BECOME 76 IF ABSOLUTELY NEEDED. AM RARELY ABSOLUTELY NEEDED, BUT AM NICE TO PUSH TARRASQUE OFF IF IT AM GETTING BITE OFF. +50 AM NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AM PROBABLY WANT +66 MINIMUM.
2. GOOD CALL. BARBARIAN TOUCH AC AM ACTUALLY BETTER. WHY? BECAUSE CASTYS AM ALL TRYING TO TOUCH BARBARIAN NONO SPOT.
3. RAYS OF EXHAUSTION AM CRAPPY IDEA. EVEN IF HIT AM GOING TO MAKE SAVE, THIS AM MAKING BARBARIAN FATIGUED. THIS AM NEGATED. THEN IF HIT AGAIN, AM MAKING BARBARIAN FATIGUED. IF HIT THIRD TIME, AM MAKING BARBARIAN EXHAUSTED. CASTY REALLY THINK AM GETTING THREE ATTACKS?
4. MENDING HAVE 10 MINUTE CASTING TIME. AM PROBABLY GOOD IDEA NOT TO CAST IN COMBAT WITH BARBARIAN. JUST SAYING.
FINAL POINT: BARBARIAN HAVE RIDE-BY ATTACK. BARBARIAN AM ABLE TO CHARGE MAGUS, FULL ATTACK, AND THEN MOVE REST OF DISTANCE OUT OF MELEE WITH MAGUS. WITH DRAGON STYLE ON MOUNT FOR PROPER CHARGING THROUGH LOW-HANGY BRANCHES AND SIMILAR DIFFICULT...
1. cmb +50 was without any extras to be fair, didn't think i'd need to go to far into something thats so easy to up, was thinking true strike +20, bab +20 with maneuver arcana, +5 accuracy arcana and +10 with weapon for shield master, +10 str bonus, +4 feats, +1 focus. I'm sure if i had buffs i could add in some insight or moral bonuses but i'll assume i'm just picking flowers not out adventuring, also that makes +69, still a good hit chance with str surge up.
2. thanks
3. you get hit by a ray of exhaustion when you hit me(Lord Armour Casty has greater spell shield which is just lols), you get hit by one from my sword of spell storing when i hit you(free action to release) and that hit was also the attack i got free with my spell combat casting of ray of exhaustion (tbh that was a bit schrodingery but was just to show the possibility of it happening in one round)
4. good call, i could probably pass the concentration checks but i guess you would roll a straight 20 to hit me eventually :p
the mobility is one of the key points i think, if i was hunting AM with LAC i'd need to find a way around that, tbh i'm just happy if i survive RAGELANCEPOUNCE to tell the tale, also if i was actually out hunting AM i'd be wanting half of all the dead casty's who got ressurected or cloned or whatever to give me half their stuff to do the job.
i'm more trying to demonstrate the immoveable object vs the unstoppable force of AM here than trying to defeat AM, chances are after the first RAGELANCEPOUNCE fails batty will see a squisher caster in the field over and AM will be on his way. though i think in AM's current state an opt'd skinir magus is one of the only casty's with a chance to win, if there is another.
How in the world are you getting True Strike on a CMD bonus? Inquiring minds want to know. You aren't attacking anything. True Strike gives nothing when defending.
And how are you getting the bonus on HIS turn?
==Aelryinth
How in the world are you getting True Strike on a CMD bonus? Inquiring minds want to know. You aren't attacking anything. True Strike gives nothing when defending.
And how are you getting the bonus on HIS turn?
==Aelryinth
who's getting true strike on CMD? i'm talking about sundering Obsevered State. AM is increasing his CMD with Strength Surge for his barbarian level.
not sure where you got true strike to CMD from.
Does Dragon Style allow a creature with natural flight using wings to fly in an area which does not give it room to actually use its wings? i know it allows you to charge through difficult terrain etc but i thought the rules for flying creatures prohibited them from flying in an area not large enough for their wing span.
can't find the info on the prd but i'm sure its there, unless its a throw over from 3.5 or something we use in our home games.
edit: also batty bat cannot fly, he is heavily encumbered by the loot from all those dead casty's. i can probably out walk your mount currently!
600+ magic missile spells in one turn should do in the barbarian as well.I'm sure it would. From what, the minions you gained with leadership? (If so, that's pretty clever actually. Now you just have to stay alive to do it.)He'd have to get through the minions and bound creatures to get to the main caster. He'd kill...5 on the charge assuming he went first? (Even assuming he can get a charge and assuming that pounce works with lance).
Give the character a week, and I probably could hit him with over 1400 magic missiles in one round. I'll actually have to stat it out, but a rough guess at the character has him generating almost 3 million gp per day. Can get plenty of equipment/called monsters/etc with that. Total RAW abuse, but on par with a barbarian that doesn't need to sleep.
Except.
They can't hit what they can't see.The *whole point* of the build is you find out AM BARBARIAN is there when you see AM BARBARIAN flying away with your heart on his Observed State.
In some ways, the way he kills you while unexpected is actually rather merciful (instant death); and maybe that's how you beat AM BARBARIAN:
He can't show mercy.
RAGELANCEPOUNCE is a merciful death
ergo, he can't do it...or have his brain short out like a 60's robot.
Damn, I just said how 'you' beat him, and now how 'we' beat him.
I has been assimilated.
600+ magic missile spells in one turn should do in the barbarian as well.I'm sure it would. From what, the minions you gained with leadership? (If so, that's pretty clever actually. Now you just have to stay alive to do it.)He'd have to get through the minions and bound creatures to get to the main caster. He'd kill...5 on the charge assuming he went first? (Even assuming he can get a charge and assuming that pounce works with lance).
Give the character a week, and I probably could hit him with over 1400 magic missiles in one round. I'll actually have to stat it out, but a rough guess at the character has him generating almost 3 million gp per day. Can get plenty of equipment/called monsters/etc with that. Total RAW abuse, but on par with a barbarian that doesn't need to sleep.
Except you can't generate that much money, because it blows your WBL. You'd lose it the instant you earned it...or never earn it at all, since anyone with half a brain would be doing the same thing and devalue your work down to 0.
Casters can make 500 gp net profit/day, right up until they smack into their WBL, at which point they cease to be able to make anything (the market is saturated). So, no, you aren't earning a bloody dime beyond your WBL, and that is RAW.
You'd probably also find it really annoying if he procures something that gives him immunity to magic missiles, too...like a Contingent Spell Immunity, or something. It's not like you're going to be able to hide your monstrous horde of MM casters, right?
===Aelryinth
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Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't equal it being established.
ALSO SCARAB OF BEING AMULET GIVES SR 19.
1200 1ST LEVEL CHARACTERS, BARBARIAN MIGHT TAKE 20 DAMAGE.
Edit: Damn you barbarians charging from too far away to see.
PERCEPTION.
Is it just me or have we started making AM BARBARIAN facts?
Also a question for AM BARBARIAN: How do you feel about paladins and rangers?
Is it just me or have we started making AM BARBARIAN facts?
Also a question for AM BARBARIAN: How do you feel about paladins and rangers?
BARBARIAN AM NOT CHUCK NORRIS, BUT CHUCK NORRIS AM BARBARIAN.
PALADINS AND RANGERS AM OK. PALADIN AM BROTHER AND RANGERS AM... USUALLY USING SPELLS FOR SMASHING BETTER.
as an exercise sorcerer 20 have a leadership score of 25. say all followers are tattooed sorcerer elves who took spell penetration as a first level feat and greater spell penetration at 3rd and have their varisian tattoo for evocation
135 first level with a bonus to beat SR of +6
13 second level with a bonus to beat SR of +7
7 third level with a bonus to beat SR of +9damage= 135*3.5*.35+13*7*.4+7*7*.5=226.27
so bring along your twin brother and his followers and all magic missile AM BARBARIAN at the same time
doesn't solve the seeing barbarian to target him but a casty can dream
I'm trying to figure out the logistics of doing this now. So, you have a total of 310 people arranged around AM. In total, they take up a total of... 1550 feet, right?
Doesn't magic missile only have a range of 130 feet for a first level character? Even if AM is right in the middle of ALL of them, on the ground, going 130 feet out in any given direction would have a total of... 26 people in the 4 cardinal directions... then ~20 in the diagonal 4... That makes 184 people... then there's the squares in the middle of each of them...
Ugh, I need a battle mat. This also assumes AM is on the ground, if he has any air at all this becomes a much smaller radius that the castys can actually fire at him from.
How'd he get a bunch of 3rd level classed characters as followers? Thought your numeric followers were limited to NPC classes?
And you realize he could pull a bunch of balls off his necklace of missiles and basically kill them all for a few thousand GP?
==Aelryinth
as an exercise sorcerer 20 have a leadership score of 25. say all followers are tattooed sorcerer elves who took spell penetration as a first level feat and greater spell penetration at 3rd and have their varisian tattoo for evocation
135 first level with a bonus to beat SR of +6
13 second level with a bonus to beat SR of +7
7 third level with a bonus to beat SR of +9damage= 135*3.5*.35+13*7*.4+7*7*.5=226.27
so bring along your twin brother and his followers and all magic missile AM BARBARIAN at the same time
doesn't solve the seeing barbarian to target him but a casty can dream
I'm trying to figure out the logistics of doing this now. So, you have a total of 310 people arranged around AM. In total, they take up a total of... 1550 feet, right?
Doesn't magic missile only have a range of 130 feet for a first level character? Even if AM is right in the middle of ALL of them, on the ground, going 130 feet out in any given direction would have a total of... 26 people in the 4 cardinal directions... then ~20 in the diagonal 4... That makes 184 people... then there's the squares in the middle of each of them...
Ugh, I need a battle mat. This also assumes AM is on the ground, if he has any air at all this becomes a much smaller radius that the castys can actually fire at him from.
Good sir if we are getting that many people involved we are going to start making use of siege towers. This is war after all.
Good sir if we are getting that many people involved we are going to start making use of siege towers. This is war after all.as an exercise sorcerer 20 have a leadership score of 25. say all followers are tattooed sorcerer elves who took spell penetration as a first level feat and greater spell penetration at 3rd and have their varisian tattoo for evocation
135 first level with a bonus to beat SR of +6
13 second level with a bonus to beat SR of +7
7 third level with a bonus to beat SR of +9damage= 135*3.5*.35+13*7*.4+7*7*.5=226.27
so bring along your twin brother and his followers and all magic missile AM BARBARIAN at the same time
doesn't solve the seeing barbarian to target him but a casty can dream
I'm trying to figure out the logistics of doing this now. So, you have a total of 310 people arranged around AM. In total, they take up a total of... 1550 feet, right?
Doesn't magic missile only have a range of 130 feet for a first level character? Even if AM is right in the middle of ALL of them, on the ground, going 130 feet out in any given direction would have a total of... 26 people in the 4 cardinal directions... then ~20 in the diagonal 4... That makes 184 people... then there's the squares in the middle of each of them...
Ugh, I need a battle mat. This also assumes AM is on the ground, if he has any air at all this becomes a much smaller radius that the castys can actually fire at him from.
Bad plan, man, then you just have a Profession (Engineering) check and a 300-hit instant kill building combo.
Bad plan, man, then you just have a Profession (Engineering) check and a 300-hit instant kill building combo.Good sir if we are getting that many people involved we are going to start making use of siege towers. This is war after all.as an exercise sorcerer 20 have a leadership score of 25. say all followers are tattooed sorcerer elves who took spell penetration as a first level feat and greater spell penetration at 3rd and have their varisian tattoo for evocation
135 first level with a bonus to beat SR of +6
13 second level with a bonus to beat SR of +7
7 third level with a bonus to beat SR of +9damage= 135*3.5*.35+13*7*.4+7*7*.5=226.27
so bring along your twin brother and his followers and all magic missile AM BARBARIAN at the same time
doesn't solve the seeing barbarian to target him but a casty can dream
I'm trying to figure out the logistics of doing this now. So, you have a total of 310 people arranged around AM. In total, they take up a total of... 1550 feet, right?
Doesn't magic missile only have a range of 130 feet for a first level character? Even if AM is right in the middle of ALL of them, on the ground, going 130 feet out in any given direction would have a total of... 26 people in the 4 cardinal directions... then ~20 in the diagonal 4... That makes 184 people... then there's the squares in the middle of each of them...
Ugh, I need a battle mat. This also assumes AM is on the ground, if he has any air at all this becomes a much smaller radius that the castys can actually fire at him from.
Doesnt necessarily have to be siege towers. Simply platforms that let my casters stack on top of one another. Is it silly? Yes. But so does having 300 apprentice wizards attempt to take on the hulk.
Doesnt necessarily have to be siege towers. Simply platforms that let my casters stack on top of one another. Is it silly? Yes. But so does having 300 apprentice wizards attempt to take on the hulk.
I'm now thinking of the Luca Blight fight from Suikoden 2.
"It took hundreds to kill me, but I have slain thousands!"
Except you can't generate that much money, because it blows your WBL. You'd lose it the instant you earned it...or never earn it at all, since anyone with half a brain would be doing the same thing and devalue your work down to 0.
Casters can make 500 gp net profit/day, right up until they smack into their WBL, at which point they cease to be able to make anything (the market is saturated). So, no, you aren't earning a bloody dime beyond your WBL, and that is RAW.
Incorrect. There is no limit to the amount of wealth a character has per RAW. You just start with the WBL amount. Especially since the Barbarian is breaking the WBL for his cohort.
You'd probably also find it really annoying if he procures something that gives him immunity to magic missiles, too...like a Contingent Spell Immunity, or something. It's not like you're going to be able to hide your monstrous horde of MM casters, right?
===Aelryinth
First off, the other things will kill him then. And yes, I could hide the monstruos horde of MM casters, besides the point that a crystal ball could find him (once he encounters the cohort that he wouldn't be able to see before the cohort saw him and reports back about him or encounters the scrying symbols) and the group could teleport circle in from different locations/vantage points.
Starting off with a disjunction will get rid of any contingencies, not to mention, that you have a base amount set and putting in a contingent immunity to magic missiles is pulling a schroedinger's barbarian.
Oh, and with SR 19, just from followers it's an average of 858.85 points of damage if it's only magic missiles. Can the barbarian fly into a rage as an immediate action?
It should be noted tht if you are going this route that AM BARBARIAN can easily do it as well. You have 300 wizards. He has a horde of his own. Be careful the war you start here.
Except you can't generate that much money, because it blows your WBL. You'd lose it the instant you earned it...or never earn it at all, since anyone with half a brain would be doing the same thing and devalue your work down to 0.
Casters can make 500 gp net profit/day, right up until they smack into their WBL, at which point they cease to be able to make anything (the market is saturated). So, no, you aren't earning a bloody dime beyond your WBL, and that is RAW.
Incorrect. There is no limit to the amount of wealth a character has per RAW. You just start with the WBL amount. Especially since the Barbarian is breaking the WBL for his cohort.
You'd probably also find it really annoying if he procures something that gives him immunity to magic missiles, too...like a Contingent Spell Immunity, or something. It's not like you're going to be able to hide your monstrous horde of MM casters, right?
===Aelryinth
First off, the other things will kill him then. And yes, I could hide the monstruos horde of MM casters, besides the point that a crystal ball could find him (once he encounters the cohort that he wouldn't be able to see before the cohort saw him and reports back about him or encounters the scrying symbols) and the group could teleport circle in from different locations/vantage points.
Starting off with a disjunction will get rid of any contingencies, not to mention, that you have a base amount set and putting in a contingent immunity to magic missiles is pulling a schroedinger's barbarian.
Oh, and with SR 19, just from followers it's an average of 858.85 points of damage if it's only magic missiles. Can the barbarian fly into a rage as an immediate action?
Look, man. If you're really wanting to get into 'breaking wbl,' allow me to point this out:
AM BARBARIAN has killed over fifty castys over the course of something like 30 pages of this stuff by now, many of whom used crafting feats to try and pseudo-double their wbl. This does not include the castys killed prior to 20th level, either, who were likely equally broken. He should, logically, have amassed the wealth of every last one of them.
You really want to split 3 million GP amongst 300 people to try and kill one man? Fine. I would like appropriate treasure considering that fact.
I assure you, it eclipses your 3 million gp. He's giving you this much trouble playing within the rules. This is really not the path you want to go down.
But if you like... I will play your game. The choice is yours.
Except you can't generate that much money, because it blows your WBL. You'd lose it the instant you earned it...or never earn it at all, since anyone with half a brain would be doing the same thing and devalue your work down to 0.
Casters can make 500 gp net profit/day, right up until they smack into their WBL, at which point they cease to be able to make anything (the market is saturated). So, no, you aren't earning a bloody dime beyond your WBL, and that is RAW.
Incorrect. There is no limit to the amount of wealth a character has per RAW. You just start with the WBL amount. Especially since the Barbarian is breaking the WBL for his cohort.
You'd probably also find it really annoying if he procures something that gives him immunity to magic missiles, too...like a Contingent Spell Immunity, or something. It's not like you're going to be able to hide your monstrous horde of MM casters, right?
===Aelryinth
First off, the other things will kill him then. And yes, I could hide the monstruos horde of MM casters, besides the point that a crystal ball could find him (once he encounters the cohort that he wouldn't be able to see before the cohort saw him and reports back about him or encounters the scrying symbols) and the group could teleport circle in from different locations/vantage points.
Starting off with a disjunction will get rid of any contingencies, not to mention, that you have a base amount set and putting in a contingent immunity to magic missiles is pulling a schroedinger's barbarian.
Oh, and with SR 19, just from followers it's an average of 858.85 points of damage if it's only magic missiles. Can the barbarian fly into a rage as an immediate action?
If you're breaking WBL, so is he. Ergo, it's a cancel out situation. And that's the amount of wealth a character is supposed to have for THAT LEVEL, not just 'starting' at that level. And it's capped by the next level. Since there IS no next level, you're at your cap.
Second off, the other things will NOT kill him. That's the whole problem with trying to kill him.
And giving your WBL to a cohort is charity, it's not breaking YOUR WBL.
Starting off with a Disjunction will be impossible because of range. Scrying isn't going to be effective because a) he's going to save against it and b) notice someone trying to scry on him and then Sunder the effect before he spends pocket change on something with Non-Detection against it. You aren't going to find out ANYTHING that way. Not to mention spell sundering the thing counts as a dispel and leaves the thing hazy and non-functioning for an entire day.
Your massive horde of magic missile casters is going to be WELL KNOWN. That's called preparatory planning. It's not like you're going to instantly transport your horde all over the place, no? He has to come to you in this instance, if you're going to cling to your army. He can probably figure out what a few hundred casters have planned.
and then he can kill their tightly clustered arses by dropping missile fireballs from Necklaces on them from 200' in the air and out of their range.
C'mon, man. He's not going to fail the Will saves against the Disjunction, either...if you had a chance of getting it off on him.
==Aelryinth
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Hrm. So you're making up a scenario based on nothing that actually happened?
Seems bad for the nameless barbarian, good thing it isn't AM.