AM BARBARIAN Build


Advice

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Liberty's Edge

AM BARBARIAN wrote:
thepuregamer wrote:


yeah cause imp evasion protects them from enemy full attacks.

WAIT.

BARBARIAN MUST HAVE FAILED PERCEPTION CHECK.

AM CASTY... INSINUATING... BEST WAY FOR CASTY... TO DEAL WITH BARBARIAN... AM FULL ATTACK?

IN MELEE?

...

WITH BARBARIAN STANDING RIGHT THERE?

FOR SERIOUS?

I saw that post and that was the first thing I thought. I think I've finally joined the AM band.


Without thinking about his too hard why couldn't casty have the same mount, so he's not taken by surprise? As long as casty gets a single action why can't he just cast a bunch of Time Stops, summon a bunch of creatures, then stay out of the way while his summoned creatures finish off AM BARBARIAN?


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN NOTE CASTY HAVE NO ACTUAL EXAMPLES, ONLY 'CAN TOTALLY DO THIS.' SCHRODINGER CASTY AM ABOUT TO MEET LANCE OF OBSERVED STATE.

BARBARIAN PUT MONEY ON LANCE. AM SMART BET.

Well. I was being nice. I assumed you could find casty. (later on when casty has mind blank... you really can't). I assumed that casty can't find you(not sure why casty can't. You have arcane sight. Casty can have arcane sight. You have ranks in perception. Casty likely has more int than AM barb. I have trouble seeing how casty cannot afford ranks in perception. Your mount can pick up 40 ft blind sense... yay. That isn't gonna help much.) But lets say casty can't find you. You can partial charge casty in a surprise round from a single move away. 30ft with overland movement. 40 with dire bat. 50 as a pteranodon. (speaking of examples. AM BARBARIAN still has not listed what form his Animal Companion is in so that it can get a better fly speed.) So if you get within 50ft of casty. Hope casty isn't more than 50ft above the ground. If he is in your tiny range you can charge him. Hopefully casty dies otherwise, casty wins initiative. Takes away your flight and you take falling damage. And have no way to get to him with your lance.


Trinam wrote:


Akeaka wrote:

Where are the rules that say you can't see beyond 800 ft in any direction? Maybe I missed something

Also, since the other side of the AM argument is over his ability to sunder magic, why not do something along the lines of stone shape (or stone to mud, mud to stone if he's on the ground) to trap him, or gate in an air elemental and cause a tornado, or a myriad of non save spells?

Perception checks get a -1 for every 10 feet of distance. This means your average character who put 20 points into perception can see... maybe 350 feet if they have it as a class skill and a 14 wisdom.

this of course ignores the many feats that boost perception checks,

Eagle Eyes, Sharp Senses, Alertness, Skill focus (Perception).
Then there are possibly traits (unknown), and having elvish blood. Though any character who did this would be absolutely required to take Lookout. Its all they would really be good for.


AM BARBARIAN is winning the initiative game because the wizard doesn't know he is there yet. Unless the player or wizard is meta gaming during the surprise round and even though the wizard has first initiative due to being a divination specialist, he cannot cast a dispel magic due to limitations on range (with the exception of the reach meta magic to increase the distance) and the lack of perception.


Hmm can I true name the syntheists fused eidolon would that stop AM from flying and ground him.


thepuregamer wrote:
AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN NOTE CASTY HAVE NO ACTUAL EXAMPLES, ONLY 'CAN TOTALLY DO THIS.' SCHRODINGER CASTY AM ABOUT TO MEET LANCE OF OBSERVED STATE.

BARBARIAN PUT MONEY ON LANCE. AM SMART BET.

Well. I was being nice. I assumed you could find casty. (later on when casty has mind blank... you really can't). I assumed that casty can't find you(not sure why casty can't. You have arcane sight. Casty can have arcane sight. You have ranks in perception. Casty likely has more int than AM barb. I have trouble seeing how casty cannot afford ranks in perception. Your mount can pick up 40 ft blind sense... yay. That isn't gonna help much.) But lets say casty can't find you. You can partial charge casty in a surprise round from a single move away. 30ft with overland movement. 40 with dire bat. 50 as a pteranodon. (speaking of examples. AM BARBARIAN still has not listed what form his Animal Companion is in so that it can get a better fly speed.) So if you get within 50ft of casty. Hope casty isn't more than 50ft above the ground. If he is in your tiny range you can charge him. Hopefully casty dies otherwise, casty wins initiative. Takes away your flight and you take falling damage. And have no way to get to him with your lance.

The caster-martial disparity beast grows and grows in its belly lies a thousand thousand hells spawning forth the indignant arguments of a thousand thousand schrodinger casty's. Each of its maws open and gibber in a mockery of laughter from a black soulless entity who knows not the humor of man.

I think you should actually look at the caster-martial disparity thread adn discover just what you are doing wrong here.


TarkXT wrote:
thepuregamer wrote:
AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN NOTE CASTY HAVE NO ACTUAL EXAMPLES, ONLY 'CAN TOTALLY DO THIS.' SCHRODINGER CASTY AM ABOUT TO MEET LANCE OF OBSERVED STATE.

BARBARIAN PUT MONEY ON LANCE. AM SMART BET.

Well. I was being nice. I assumed you could find casty. (later on when casty has mind blank... you really can't). I assumed that casty can't find you(not sure why casty can't. You have arcane sight. Casty can have arcane sight. You have ranks in perception. Casty likely has more int than AM barb. I have trouble seeing how casty cannot afford ranks in perception. Your mount can pick up 40 ft blind sense... yay. That isn't gonna help much.) But lets say casty can't find you. You can partial charge casty in a surprise round from a single move away. 30ft with overland movement. 40 with dire bat. 50 as a pteranodon. (speaking of examples. AM BARBARIAN still has not listed what form his Animal Companion is in so that it can get a better fly speed.) So if you get within 50ft of casty. Hope casty isn't more than 50ft above the ground. If he is in your tiny range you can charge him. Hopefully casty dies otherwise, casty wins initiative. Takes away your flight and you take falling damage. And have no way to get to him with your lance.

The caster-martial disparity beast grows and grows in its belly lies a thousand thousand hells spawning forth the indignant arguments of a thousand thousand schrodinger casty's. Each of its maws open and gibber in a mockery of laughter from a black soulless entity who knows not the humor of man.

I think you should actually look at the caster-martial disparity thread adn discover just what you are doing wrong here.

NOT RAGELANCEPOUNCE. FOR ONCE. DESTRUCITY AM BEING NOT ANNOYING YET.

BARBARIAN GIVE HINT: IT AM 'ARGUING WITH BARBARIAN WITH ANY HOPE OF WINNING.' AM PRETTY CLEAR AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH, LIKE, ANY RULES RELATED TO MARTIAL CHARACTERS, CHARGING, OR BARBARIAN ARCHETYPES.


thepuregamer wrote:
AM BARBARIAN wrote:

BARBARIAN NOTE CASTY HAVE NO ACTUAL EXAMPLES, ONLY 'CAN TOTALLY DO THIS.' SCHRODINGER CASTY AM ABOUT TO MEET LANCE OF OBSERVED STATE.

BARBARIAN PUT MONEY ON LANCE. AM SMART BET.

Well. I was being nice. I assumed you could find casty. (later on when casty has mind blank... you really can't). I assumed that casty can't find you(not sure why casty can't. You have arcane sight. Casty can have arcane sight. You have ranks in perception. Casty likely has more int than AM barb. I have trouble seeing how casty cannot afford ranks in perception. Your mount can pick up 40 ft blind sense... yay. That isn't gonna help much.) But lets say casty can't find you. You can partial charge casty in a surprise round from a single move away. 30ft with overland movement. 40 with dire bat. 50 as a pteranodon. (speaking of examples. AM BARBARIAN still has not listed what form his Animal Companion is in so that it can get a better fly speed.) So if you get within 50ft of casty. Hope casty isn't more than 50ft above the ground. If he is in your tiny range you can charge him. Hopefully casty dies otherwise, casty wins initiative. Takes away your flight and you take falling damage. And have no way to get to him with your lance.

You are referring to a spell caster as "casty". Look out the barbarian is winning via propaganda.


Glutton wrote:
You are referring to a spell caster as "casty". Look out the barbarian is winning via propaganda.

HIVEMIND AM ALWAYS WINNER.


Sarrion wrote:


AM BARBARIAN is winning the initiative game because the wizard doesn't know he is there yet. Unless the player or wizard is meta gaming during the surprise round and even though the wizard has first initiative due to being a divination specialist, he cannot cast a dispel magic due to limitations on range (with the exception of the reach meta magic to increase the distance) and the lack of perception.

can someone spell out how barbie knows where the caster is without the caster knowing where the barbie is? Does your answer involve henchmen from leadership? If yes, note that anyone can have henchmen fill in their weaknesses.

TarkXT wrote:


I think you should actually look at the caster-martial disparity thread adn discover just what you are doing wrong here.
AM BARBARIAN wrote:


NOT RAGELANCEPOUNCE. FOR ONCE. DESTRUCITY AM BEING NOT ANNOYING YET.

BARBARIAN GIVE HINT: IT AM 'ARGUING WITH BARBARIAN WITH ANY HOPE OF WINNING.' AM PRETTY CLEAR AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH, LIKE, ANY RULES RELATED TO MARTIAL CHARACTERS, CHARGING, OR BARBARIAN ARCHETYPES.

There is a fundamental misunderstanding here. I am not arguing for the sake of winning. Winning is irrelevant. I was arguing for the fun of it. And I pretty much like picking up the language of the other side. Hell I would have made a counter account called AM CASTY but I think it is likely already taken.

So for all those who do not seem to understand. I was throwing logic at the barbie to waste some free time. I did not expect logic to have any effect on the barbie. I just did it anyway.


AM TWO ANSWERS TO QUESTION IN PARTICULAR STATEMENT. EITHER BARBARIAN AM SPOTTER BARBARIANSELF, AM HAVING PERCEPTION CHECK OF HIGHER THAN CASTY THUS AM ABLE TO SPOT FIRST, ELSE BARBARIAN HAVE BATTY BAT BE SPOTTER, AM HANDS-DOWN AWESOMER SPOTTER THAN CASTY.

BARBARIAN RESPECT POSITION THAT ARGUING AM FOR FUN OF IT. BARBARIAN ALSO DO THINGS FOR FUN. SMASHING CASTY AM HIGH ON LIST OF THINGS BARBARIAN DO FOR FUN OF IT. THIS AM LEADING TO VERY FUNNY INSTANCES WHEN CASTY NOT KNOW BARBARIAN AM THAT BARBARIAN. DIPLOMANCY AM HILARIOUS. ONLY ONES AM GET CLOSE ENOUGH AM LIKE... ARMORED BARDCASTYS THOUGH. AM FOOLING BARBARIAN LONG ENOUGH GET IN TALKY RANGE. SILLY ARMOR-WEARING CASTYS, AM SO INCOGNITO.

'HAIL TO BARBARIAN, AM CASTY FROM PLACE. AM MAKING MUCH MIRTH. AM PLAYING SONGS AND TALKING WITH PEOPLE. AM TOTALLY FRIENDS WITH EVERYONE, AM INTERESTED IN BEING BARBARIAN FRIEND AS WELL. BARBARIAN WANT MAKE FRIENDS WITH CASTY? CASTY AM PRETTY SURE BARBARIAN AND CASTY WILL BE GETTING ALONG. BARBARIAN AND CASTY CAN GO ON ADVENTURE, BEAT VILLAIN, HAVE GRAND OLD-'

THIS AM WHERE CASTY GENERALLY GO SMASH. BARBARIAN LOSE COUNT HERE, ASSUME IT AM 50 SECONDS. POOR CASTY, AM DOING SO WELL TOO.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

AM TWO ANSWERS TO QUESTION IN PARTICULAR STATEMENT. EITHER BARBARIAN AM SPOTTER BARBARIANSELF, AM HAVING PERCEPTION CHECK OF HIGHER THAN CASTY THUS AM ABLE TO SPOT FIRST, ELSE BARBARIAN HAVE BATTY BAT BE SPOTTER, AM HANDS-DOWN AWESOMER SPOTTER THAN CASTY.

BARBARIAN RESPECT POSITION THAT ARGUING AM FOR FUN OF IT. BARBARIAN ALSO DO THINGS FOR FUN. SMASHING CASTY AM HIGH ON LIST OF THINGS BARBARIAN DO FOR FUN OF IT. THIS AM LEADING TO VERY FUNNY INSTANCES WHEN CASTY NOT KNOW BARBARIAN AM THAT BARBARIAN. DIPLOMANCY AM HILARIOUS. ONLY ONES AM GET CLOSE ENOUGH AM LIKE... ARMORED BARDCASTYS THOUGH. AM FOOLING BARBARIAN LONG ENOUGH GET IN TALKY RANGE. SILLY ARMOR-WEARING CASTYS, AM SO INCOGNITO.

'HAIL TO BARBARIAN, AM CASTY FROM PLACE. AM MAKING MUCH MIRTH. AM PLAYING SONGS AND TALKING WITH PEOPLE. AM TOTALLY FRIENDS WITH EVERYONE, AM INTERESTED IN BEING BARBARIAN FRIEND AS WELL. BARBARIAN WANT MAKE FRIENDS WITH CASTY? CASTY AM PRETTY SURE BARBARIAN AND CASTY WILL BE GETTING ALONG. BARBARIAN AND CASTY CAN GO ON ADVENTURE, BEAT VILLAIN, HAVE GRAND OLD-'

THIS AM WHERE CASTY GENERALLY GO SMASH. BARBARIAN LOSE COUNT HERE, ASSUME IT AM 50 SECONDS. POOR CASTY, AM DOING SO WELL TOO.

Sandwhich Wizard gets around this problem by tossing masterwork sandwhiches to the hungry maw and fleeing before he finishes.


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MMM....

SAMMICHES.

Liberty's Edge

Sarrion wrote:
Unless the player or wizard is meta gaming during the surprise round and even though the wizard has first initiative due to being a divination specialist, he cannot cast a dispel magic due to limitations on range (with the exception of the reach meta magic to increase the distance) and the lack of perception.

Divination specialist casts divination spells at the beginning of the day to find out what challenges will be faced today. No meta gaming needed.

Secondly, ready an action to get cast dispel magic when the target enters the range for it.


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ShadowcatX wrote:
Sarrion wrote:
Unless the player or wizard is meta gaming during the surprise round and even though the wizard has first initiative due to being a divination specialist, he cannot cast a dispel magic due to limitations on range (with the exception of the reach meta magic to increase the distance) and the lack of perception.

Divination specialist casts divination spells at the beginning of the day to find out what challenges will be faced today. No meta gaming needed.

Secondly, ready an action to get cast dispel magic when the target enters the range for it.

BARBARIAN AM YET TO FIND DIVINATION SPELL THAT AM ABLE TO TELL CASTY WHAT EXACTLY CASTY AM GOING TO BE FACING. AM COMMUNE, BUT THAT AM ONLY GIVING YES-NO QUESTIONS. PLAYING 20 QUESTIONS AND DEDUCING 'DR. BARBARIAN AM BARBARIAN PH.D AM ATTACKING CASTY TODAY' AM PRETTY... HARD TO BELIEVE.


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AM BARBARIAN wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
Sarrion wrote:
Unless the player or wizard is meta gaming during the surprise round and even though the wizard has first initiative due to being a divination specialist, he cannot cast a dispel magic due to limitations on range (with the exception of the reach meta magic to increase the distance) and the lack of perception.

Divination specialist casts divination spells at the beginning of the day to find out what challenges will be faced today. No meta gaming needed.

Secondly, ready an action to get cast dispel magic when the target enters the range for it.

BARBARIAN AM YET TO FIND DIVINATION SPELL THAT AM ABLE TO TELL CASTY WHAT EXACTLY CASTY AM GOING TO BE FACING. AM COMMUNE, BUT THAT AM ONLY GIVING YES-NO QUESTIONS. PLAYING 20 QUESTIONS AND DEDUCING 'DR. BARBARIAN AM BARBARIAN PH.D AM ATTACKING CASTY TODAY' AM PRETTY... HARD TO BELIEVE.

AM, I believe you're history of efficient Casty smashing works against you here; any Casty with half a brain will begin his daily Commune by asking, "Will AM BARBARIAN try to Smash me to today!?" and be able to get a fairly clear yes or no answer :/


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I believe that the beauty of the build is that it is able to one-shot casty. Any casty.

Other castys do not know about AM BARBARIAN, since there is no one left to speak of him.


Xexyz wrote:
Without thinking about his too hard why couldn't casty have the same mount, so he's not taken by surprise? As long as casty gets a single action why can't he just cast a bunch of Time Stops, summon a bunch of creatures, then stay out of the way while his summoned creatures finish off AM BARBARIAN?

Batty-bat is the perfect cohort for AM. It's not a perfect cohort for a wizard, who generally has a pretty good movement anyways. Yes, if the wizard is built to counter this very build he might have it - otherwise, not so likely.

Also, basically you can't summon during Time Stop. You can't do anything affecting other creatures. IIRC.


Cheapy wrote:

I believe that the beauty of the build is that it is able to one-shot casty. Any casty.

Other castys do not know about AM BARBARIAN, since there is no one left to speak of him.

What about Casty's who do (and I may be smashed just for suggesting this) have non-Casty friends, like Paladins and Barbarians?

Are they getting smashed too?

Also, you can't tell me that there's no physical evidence of Casty Smashing. We're talking about enough power to tear a hole in reality... that MUST leave a mark :)


KrispyXIV wrote:
What about Casty's who do (and I may be smashed just for suggesting this) have non-Casty friends, like Paladins and Barbarians?

INCONCEIVABLE.


ShadowcatX wrote:


Divination specialist casts divination spells at the beginning of the day to find out what challenges will be faced today. No meta gaming needed.

What spell are they casting?

ShadowcatX wrote:
Secondly, ready an action to get cast dispel magic when the target enters the range for it.

How are you phrasing that ready action? What are you targeting with your dispel magic?


KrispyXIV wrote:


AM, I believe you're history of efficient Casty smashing works against you here; any Casty with half a brain will begin his daily Commune by asking, "Will AM BARBARIAN try to Smash me to today!?" and be able to get a fairly clear yes or no answer :/

AMBARB waits until the wizard is pennyless from wasting all his money using limited wish to cast commune, and forces the destitute caster to dance for a sandwich. Also unclear is an acceptable answer to commune.


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Andy Ferguson wrote:
KrispyXIV wrote:


AM, I believe you're history of efficient Casty smashing works against you here; any Casty with half a brain will begin his daily Commune by asking, "Will AM BARBARIAN try to Smash me to today!?" and be able to get a fairly clear yes or no answer :/
AMBARB waits until the wizard is pennyless from wasting all his money using limited wish to cast commune, and forces the destitute caster to dance for a sandwich. Also unclear is an acceptable answer to commune.

A truly cunning Casty would have a Familiar capable of casting Commune 1/week (like a Lyrakien), and use his six questions as follows. "Will AM Barbarian attack me this week?" If the answer is 'Yes', he follows with, "Monday?", "Tuesday?" etc.

He will spend the other days of the week he lacks questions for huddling in fear in a pocket dimension.


KrispyXIV wrote:
Andy Ferguson wrote:
KrispyXIV wrote:


AM, I believe you're history of efficient Casty smashing works against you here; any Casty with half a brain will begin his daily Commune by asking, "Will AM BARBARIAN try to Smash me to today!?" and be able to get a fairly clear yes or no answer :/
AMBARB waits until the wizard is pennyless from wasting all his money using limited wish to cast commune, and forces the destitute caster to dance for a sandwich. Also unclear is an acceptable answer to commune.

A truly cunning Casty would have a Familiar capable of casting Commune 1/week (like a Lyrakien), and use his six questions as follows. "Will AM Barbarian attack me this week?" If the answer is 'Yes', he follows with, "Monday?", "Tuesday?" etc.

He will spend the other days of the week he lacks questions for huddling in fear in a pocket dimension.

This does lead to the interesting question of 'can anyone tell what exactly AM BARBARIAN is going to do at any given second?' he is Chaotic Neutral.


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@thepuregamer - There's no need to be snarky, i'm just going based off what Trinam is showing as AM BARBARIAN's perception versus the "casters". I agree that using leadership in order to gain a superior mount is a crutch. Though I find the primary functions of the barbarian, (being dealing huge amounts of damage AND spell sundering is what makes the barbarian come out ahead in most scenarios.

The problem I have with the proposed counter measures from casters is that it is assumed that AM BARBARIAN is a known threat to the caster before initiative has begun. Second, the schroedingers caster (as it's been labelled), is the caster that has every appropriate spell prepared in the event that a superstitious barbarian flying on a bat is going to come along and smash his face in. Is that truly an expectation for a wizard? Perhaps a cleric could divine this knowledge, but i don't know divination spells all taht well. Lastly, a lot of the casters appear to have all the spells in the core/apg/UM/UC books prepared or known.

I would like to see a barbarian build that is more realistic in it's real world gameplay approach. Riding a 6 HD dire bat is a cool idea, riding a level 17 summoner is ludicrous. I'd like to see how to boost the perception checks into the high 60's and how to maintain good damage without relying on a mount.

As for a caster, i'd like to see something more realistic in terms of spell appliation while adventuring. I find this to be a great exercise in preperation and it helps give ideas for when i eventually play an arcane caster. Though perhaps that is for another thread. Right now I just want to see AM BARBARIAN's build!


Trinam wrote:
This does lead to the interesting question of 'can anyone tell what exactly AM BARBARIAN is going to do at any given second?' he is Chaotic Neutral.

He seems to have a propensity for saying things that amount to 'Screw Destiny' and then kicking reason to the curb. I'd hate to be the deity who tipped off a potential Smashing victim, with his ability to pierce the heavens with his lance!


From what I can tell, in order to defeat AM BARBARIAN, one must have:

1. A reliable way to beat him in initiative.

2. Perception score that is higher than AM BARBARIAN or BATTY BAT

3. Damage and/or debuffs that do not rely on saves (or that can beat rediculously high saves).

4. A way to be completely immune to Rage/Lance/Pounce/Spell Sunder.


Sarrion wrote:
I would like to see a barbarian build that is more realistic in it's real world gameplay approach. Riding a 6 HD dire bat is a cool idea, riding a level 17 summoner is ludicrous. I'd like to see how to boost the perception checks into the high 60's and how to maintain good damage without relying on a mount.

My barbarian guide (still in progress, current release date Q1 2013) is working on that particular point far more in depth, it's for optimizing Barbarians without resorting to going beyond the impossible and using every dirty trick in the book.

AM BARBARIAN, on the other hand, is entirely about breaking the game with a Barbarian. I'mma be resorting to every dirty trick I can find for any such build short of UMD.

Yeah you heard me, I'm avoiding UMD. In your face, castys. 8D


@trinam - I am looking forward to seeing the guide as I am building a barbarian for the new year.


We're talking about 20th level builds here? A divination wizard will go first by default. Not only will they automatically go in the surprise round, but their initiative is guaranteed to be higher than AM's.

Surprise round: Diviner: "Why is my forewarned going off?" Casts time stop. Greater invis. Move in any direction. Proceed with casty's killing plan of choice when Am charges to previous location.

Since we're going with silly builds, this diviner prepares every spell stilled at silented except for time stop. So the rest of his spells will all take up a slot two spell levels higher, but Am will never see or hear him. May as well make his round 1 action be another time stop to get mirror image, stoneskin, and other buffs up if he has the rounds.

At this point even if Am has found some way to locate him, he'll be fine. If he or Am approaches the other to within close range, he can spend his actions doing quickened enervations (using quicken metamagic rod or metamagic gems) and regular enervations, all of which Am won't even hear as his levels are quickly drained away from him. Touch attacks rarely miss in my experience, but he could easily have a moment of prescience ready for the first one and use true strikes if it seems like he is missing.

This is off the top of my head and involves no wearable gear and has only one optional prep spell (moment of prescience). If Am has a suitable backup plan for any of this, I'll happily put together a build some time.


Drumlord, you pretty obviously missed all the stuff about BATTY BAT and Spell Sunder. Invis is no obstacle (due to blindsense), and defensive buffs are nearly useless (in fact, they're a liability that makes you light up right on through Greater Invis to Arcane Sight).


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IF AM NOT COUNTING GHOST FIGHTER RAGE POWER, AMULET OF NEGATES LEVEL DRAINING SPELLS, BLINDSIGHT, SPELL SUNDER, AND FACT THAT RAYS AM VERY DEFINITELY BETRAY LOCATION REGARDLESS OF METAMAGIC, BARBARIAN AM COMPLETELY DEFENSELESS AGAINST TACTIC. CONGRATULATIONS.

(THAT AM SARCASM)


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So... if I am understanding things right, the best way for a Casty to not get killed by BARBARIAN is to not be a casty.


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Dal Selpher wrote:
So... if I am understanding things right, the best way for a Casty to not get killed by BARBARIAN is to not be a casty.

SOMEONE FINALLY UNDERSTAND.


Dal Selpher wrote:
So... if I am understanding things right, the best way for a Casty to not get killed by BARBARIAN is to not be a casty.

Or just be a obscenely well prepared high level casty.

(i.e. a true BBEG)


TarkXT wrote:
Dal Selpher wrote:
So... if I am understanding things right, the best way for a Casty to not get killed by BARBARIAN is to not be a casty.

Or just be a obscenely well prepared high level casty.

(i.e. a true BBEG)

Cowering in your own Demiplane is always an option.

Its like the universes best prison cell, you designed and outfitted yourself!


KrispyXIV wrote:
TarkXT wrote:
Dal Selpher wrote:
So... if I am understanding things right, the best way for a Casty to not get killed by BARBARIAN is to not be a casty.

Or just be a obscenely well prepared high level casty.

(i.e. a true BBEG)

Cowering in your own Demiplane is always an option.

Its like the universes best prison cell, you designed and outfitted yourself!

MAKE SURE AM NO GATES FROM MATERIAL PLANE. BARBARIAN TOTALLY WANTED TO TRY SUNDERING DEMIPLANE MADE WITH CREATE DEMIPLANE.


KrispyXIV wrote:
Drumlord, you pretty obviously missed all the stuff about BATTY BAT and Spell Sunder. Invis is no obstacle (due to blindsense), and defensive buffs are nearly useless (in fact, they're a liability that makes you light up right on through Greater Invis to Arcane Sight).

Explain then. I didn't see it in this thread.

Incidentally, an alternate strategy assuming we don't even see Am cuz our perception is not as good:

surprise round: time stop (we'll assume minimum rounds): cast summon monster, cast quickened greater scrying on summoned monster, second round greater teleport to safe location far far away.

first round: watch as Am barbarian smashes summoned critter.

Diviner now knows exactly what Am looks like and is safe. Is Am immune to scrying? Will he be safe for the rest of his life and avoid sleeping knowing the enemy could attack him at any moment? Or are we assuming Am would avoid killing a critter a casty brought in to kill him?

Quote:
GHOST FIGHTER RAGE POWER

Post a touch AC and we'll talk

Quote:
AMULET OF NEGATES LEVEL DRAINING SPELLS

Source? I don't see this in Core or APG so I assume some supplement book?

Quote:
BLINDSIGHT
Range on this? A 20th level diviner has 125 ft. range on enervations
Quote:
SPELL SUNDER

Against which one? The mirror image? The stoneskin? The invisibility?

Quote:
AND FACT THAT RAYS AM VERY DEFINITELY BETRAY LOCATION REGARDLESS OF METAMAGIC

Now you aren't even trying. I'll adjust: quickened enervation, enervation, move 30 ft. ... and still 125 ft. away from Am.


"The caster martial disparity beast bloats and grows from the conflict its pulsating body vibrating from the sheer alien pleasure. Suddenly a dozen watching new players are suddenly snatched into the air by the beasts many tendrils and violated by the creatures dozens of ovipositors they twitch and scream as agony as suddenly a billion young burst from their mouths leaving behind dry husks that shamble about desiring only to feast upon the flesh of the living. The beast climbs atop a pile of its own shed forms and begins to weave a cocoon made from the threads of shattered causality. Only gods that have long since died can concieve of what this dark metamorphosis will give birth to."


AM IN CORE, ALSO GIVE LIKE, SR 19. NEED BETTER PERCEPTION CHECK, MAN.

APPROXIMATE TOUCH AC AM... CARRY TWO... LIKELY IN NEIGHBORHOOD OF 30-32. SENSE VARY ON CREATURE, AM GENERALLY 30-60 FT. MOVE TO SPOT CASTY AT PRIOR TO MOVING 30 FEET, SUDDENLY CASTY AM QUITE SEEABLE. UH-OH. AS FOR MOVE SPEED, ANY GOOD BARBARIAN AM ABLE TO COVER 125 FT IN SINGLE ROUND. THEY NOT TEACH THAT IN CASTY FANCY SCHOOL? BUFFS AM POINTLESS, WHEN BARBARIAN AM DEALING 3D8+168 PER HIT CASTY LAST TWO, MAYBE, IF BOOSTED CON WAY TOO HIGH.

BARBARIAN GUESS NOT. HAVE FUN WITH +13 TOUCH RAY.


Forewarned.

Surprise round: teleport to sanctuary.

Combat: Scry on previous location and determine identify of attacker.

Next we wait until he is sleeping, destroy magic items, and teleport him to another planet. Contingency teleport back to home planet without him.

Fin.


drumlord wrote:
Explain then. I didn't see it in this thread.

Basically, there's been 25 pages or so with Shroedinger's Wizards trying to beat AM but failing. Some got a second turn or so, but basically, AM just RAGELANCEPOUNCE any casty.

The basics is that he can charge you from further distance than you can see. Even if you're heavily into perception, with say, a +45 modifier, you can see at most about 550 ft. Batty bat can see you from about 850, and AM can charge you from 900. You'll be dead before even rolling initiative.

Also, IIRC you can't summon during Time Stop because you cannot affect other creatures while under time stop. Even if you WOULD get a surprise round, you don't know anything about what happens - you only get your "spider sense tingling". Do you always burn of all your high-level spells and teleport away if your spider sense goes PING? Sounds like an _unusually_ paranoid wizard, and that says a whole lot.

125ft. enervation is irrelevant to 900ft RAGELANCEPOUNCE, and you won't get any opportunity to cast the spell anyways.

The fact is that yes, if you people do enough Shroedinger's Wizards you might possibly sometime come up with a wizard optimized against AM that might be able to kill him with a little luck. The fact that you actually have to make all those fifty thousand Shroedinger's Wizards to succeed is evidence enough of BARBARIAN/NOTBARBARIAN DESTRUCITY.

Quote:
first round: watch as Am barbarian smashes summoned critter.

Why would he smash the critter? He's got wizard hunting to do. Wizard's can't really bring in anything dangerous anyway.

Quote:
Will he be safe for the rest of his life and avoid sleeping knowing the enemy could attack him at any moment?

AM has already stated he does not sleep, IIRC.

MagnusE-Mentula wrote:

Forewarned.

Surprise round: teleport to sanctuary.

Combat: Scry on previous location and determine identify of attacker.

Next we wait until he is sleeping, destroy magic items, and teleport him to another planet. Contingency teleport back to home planet without him.

Fin.

Forewarned MIGHT get you a ping on your spider sense, but do you instantly teleport home whenever ANYTHING pings? I mean, you'd teleport as soon as there's a wasp in the room.

Also, you've got like 2 million square feet to scry off. And you don't even know that, you're just guessing/metagaming.


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TarkXT wrote:
"The caster martial disparity beast bloats and grows from the conflict its pulsating body vibrating from the sheer alien pleasure. Suddenly a dozen watching new players are suddenly snatched into the air by the beasts many tendrils and violated by the creatures dozens of ovipositors they twitch and scream as agony as suddenly a billion young burst from their mouths leaving behind dry husks that shamble about desiring only to feast upon the flesh of the living. The beast climbs atop a pile of its own shed forms and begins to weave a cocoon made from the threads of shattered causality. Only gods that have long since died can concieve of what this dark metamorphosis will give birth to."

NOW IF EXCUSE BARBARIAN, AM BIGGER PROBLEM THAN CASTY.


Let's see...base Touch AC is 10. With ghost rager, it's 23.

Wizard's BAB is 10. I suppose if they focused a bit on dex, they'd get +3 or some such to it, giving them +13 to hit.

So...with just ghost rager, the wiz is already at only 50% chance to hit.

Maybe they really buffed up Dex, so that they could use rays more often. I'm not sure why you'd do this, since you're a wizard, and you already have amazing Init, but whatever.

Even with 22 (assuming +6 belt, and base of 16? Not likely, since this is 20 point buy and you are probably going for Int to buff DCs) that's...35% chance to miss.

Whoops, AM has a +5 ring of protection.

So his base touch AC is now 28, and this outlandishly dextrous Wizard has a 60% chance to miss.

But really. Nothing is forcing AM to charge right away. So congrats. You've used Timestop, and cast a s&~% ton of buffs. AM waits an hour or so, and starts the surprise round again. Well, you cast Time Stop again! Same deal. You're just draining very important resources, and you don't even know when he'll strike. He can keep this up for a long time, since he can trail you from outside of your vision. Unless you plan on casting scrying spells *everywhere*. In which case you'll run out of spells even faster.

I dunno man, I'm pretty sure you're like the 12th person to come up with this exact plan.


MagnusE-Mentula wrote:

Forewarned.

Surprise round: teleport to sanctuary.

Combat: Scry on previous location and determine identify of attacker.

Next we wait until he is sleeping, destroy magic items, and teleport him to another planet. Contingency teleport back to home planet without him.

Fin.

AM never sleeps. He is an exercise in RAW, and RAW has no penalties for not sleeping.

Except for Wizards.

And just scrying on the previous location won't help unless you scry every single location in a 980 foot radius.


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On an unrelated note, his lance is now officially dubbed 'Observed State.'


I too am curious about this amulet, by the way.


Scarab of Protection, got it.


Trinam wrote:
On an unrelated note, his lance is now officially dubbed 'Observed State.'

As its build related, I'd say its a related note :)

And Awesome.

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