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Does the Totem Warrior archetype from APG allow a barbarian to take multiple totems?


Rules Questions

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103 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
APG's Rage Powers (Ex): wrote:

The following new rage powers can be taken by any barbarian that meets the prerequisites. Totem rage powers grant powers in a theme. A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers. For example, a barbarian that selects a beast totem rage power cannot later chose to gain any of the spirit totem rage powers.

Totem Warrior wrote:

A barbarian often has a special totem that is the patron of her tribe. While individual totems vary, those in the tribe that call upon a totem receive similar abilities. Totem warrior barbarians can select from the following rage powers.

Rage Powers: The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers themselves, the following rage powers complement the totem warrior archtype (depending on the totem chosen): animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*.

UC's Rage Powers: wrote:
Any barbarian who meets the powers' prerequisites can select and use the following new rage powers. Totem rage powers grant powers related to a theme. A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, a barbarian who selects a beast totem rage power (see the Advanced Player's Guide) cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title), unless she has the totem warrior archetype.

So...what gives? Totem Warrior says nothing about allowing for multiple Totems, but UC says it does.

Is this stealth errata? Will it be explicitly stated in the next printing of the APG?

Please FAQ :)


10 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If it does allow for multiple totems, what do they give up for this?

Why wouldn't *every* barbarian be a Totem Warrior?


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

FAQ'd

I suspect howefer that Totem Warrior is simply an archrtype that has no meaning or effect on a character.

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:

If it does allow for multiple totems, what do they give up for this?

Why wouldn't *every* barbarian be a Totem Warrior?

How I always understood it is that a Totem Warrior may only choose his rage powers in the Totem powers, and this list : animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*.

So you are sacrificing all the other useful rage powers for the right to take several totems.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Poor Wandering One wrote:

FAQ'd

I suspect howefer that Totem Warrior is simply an archrtype that has no meaning or effect on a character.

If this is true then it's a worse than anything 3.5 was for being a complete waste of space.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Maxximilius wrote:
Cheapy wrote:

If it does allow for multiple totems, what do they give up for this?

Why wouldn't *every* barbarian be a Totem Warrior?

How I always understood it is that a Totem Warrior may only choose his rage powers in the Totem powers, and this list : animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*.

So you are sacrificing all the other useful rage powers for the right to take several totems.

I can see how that could be the intent, but they really need to explicitly say that: "The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers." does not cut it.

If they were meant to only be able to choose from that list, it should say something like this:

Revised Totem Warrior wrote:

"The totem warrior must select one totem. They may only select rage powers from that totem as well as from the following list:"

As it is, it says the following rage powers "complement" the totem powers. So if they can't select anything but Totem Rage powers, then they can't even select those! They aren't given permission to.

Alternatively, if they are meant to allow for multiple totems:

Revised Revised Totem Warrior wrote:


"The totem warrior may only choose Totem rage powers and rage powers from the following list:"

No matter what it's meant to be, there needs to be some clarification *somewhere*.


It says can select not must select. So I don't think you are forced to take those rage powers other than totem ones. Also

Also the wierd thing is which FAQ will this go in if it is FAQED is another question. Will people look in one FAQ for APG if it is wrong when the answer is in UC FAQ and vice versa.

Silver Crusade

Cheapy wrote:
I can see how that could be the intent, but they really need to explicitly say that: "The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers." does not cut it.

Agreed. It's just that between "the archetype has no meaning or effect" and "it is an exception to the rule but removes some versatility", I tend to go for the second answer as an explanation.


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

It could end up that the clarification is simply that beast totem barbarian totem warriors can also choose dragon totem rage powers and that's the extent of it.

In which case the FAQ/errata only needs to happen in the UC.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have never had an urge to FAQ every single post in a thread before.




ZJ wrote:
On Page 79 of the APG under "Totem Warrior" this entry seems incomplete.
You need to look at the various totem rage powers, which are sorted in with all the other new rage powers starting on page 74.

Even James Jacobs doesn't know what the archetype does.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for digging those up Grick. I usually search those guys for answers first, but forgot to this time.

Unfortunately, neither answer actually answers any of these questions.


Yikes.


Quandary wrote:
Yikes.

Exactly.

Anyone have the ungents and salves for a summon dev spell?


Poor Wandering One wrote:
Quandary wrote:
Yikes.

Exactly.

Anyone have the ungents and salves for a summon dev spell?

Hasn't worked in the past; this isn't the first time this thread has come up.

Everyone madly click FAQ buttons and maybe we'll get lucky this time?


Up, and I hope that if enough people ask for a faq we will get one.


Up, still no clarification yet?
I Up, and I hope that if enough people ask for a faq we will get one.


Yeah, wow, has this really been looked past, despite the 34+ FAQs?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Huh, I was about to dig this thread up today to see if it was resolved.


I also noticed that if the archetype means that every barbarian with a totem rage power is a totem warrior and you can just pick the listed rage powers, as some people proposed, then it's impossible to pick the dragon totem power, since it requires intimidating glare which is not on the list.
So the archetype is either wrong (if some possible feats are missing) or it's pointless (if those rage powers are just suggestion), not just unclear.


Cheapy wrote:
APG's Rage Powers (Ex): wrote:

The following new rage powers can be taken by any barbarian that meets the prerequisites. Totem rage powers grant powers in a theme. A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers. For example, a barbarian that selects a beast totem rage power cannot later chose to gain any of the spirit totem rage powers.

Totem Warrior wrote:

A barbarian often has a special totem that is the patron of her tribe. While individual totems vary, those in the tribe that call upon a totem receive similar abilities. Totem warrior barbarians can select from the following rage powers.

Rage Powers: The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers themselves, the following rage powers complement the totem warrior archtype (depending on the totem chosen): animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*.

UC's Rage Powers: wrote:
Any barbarian who meets the powers' prerequisites can select and use the following new rage powers. Totem rage powers grant powers related to a theme. A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, a barbarian who selects a beast totem rage power (see the Advanced Player's Guide) cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title), unless she has the totem warrior archetype.

I think it basically means in the UC that a Barbarian is still restricted the to one group of rage totem powers and if he is a totem warrior he has his one chosen set and the complementary list of rage powers. Poorly worded but I think that is what they meant.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

From the Rage Powers Section of UC:
"A Barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers,.................,unless she has the totem warrior archetype"

I guess that thats the only clarification for the Totem Warrior archetype in all the books.It should have been specified that way in the APG all along.

Liberty's Edge

Totem warrior replaces no class features so all barbarians can be totem warriors...
Anyone else see the problem here?


Up.


Flashohol wrote:

Totem warrior replaces no class features so all barbarians can be totem warriors...

Anyone else see the problem here?

Unless it is intended to replace their list of rage powers.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ahorsewithnoname wrote:
Flashohol wrote:

Totem warrior replaces no class features so all barbarians can be totem warriors...

Anyone else see the problem here?
Unless it is intended to replace their list of rage powers.

Is it how you guys rule it? I have a player that want to give the totem warrior a try, and I'm not sure about game balance if I let him any totem then any rage power.

Any of you tried it?

Silver Crusade

I would do as said previously and only allow the listed rage powers for the totem warrior + those "totem" based that have been added later, if any.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ok Thanks. I might just do that. Still, a FAQ would be great!


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Either way, either this archetype doesn't do anything at all, or it does something for nothing and every barbarian should take it.

*scratches head*

*clicks FAQ button*


As the APG described it, the Totem Warrior was a pseudo-archetype that didn't actually replace any abilities. It was just the name for a Barbarian who took a 'Totem' rage power.

Either, the UC reference to a Totem Warrior being able to select was an error that just slipped through the cracks, or the entire archetype was misprinted in the APG.

I can't think of any other explanations, and I don't seem to find any in the thread. Personally, when something like this comes up, I favor the simplest explanation, which is the UC is in error. Though I'm interested to learn what the writers' intent was.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

New here, figured I'd use my first post to add to the call for clarification. I'm interested in making a Dragon Disciple using Barbarian and Sorcerer to get there. Thought it would be really cool if I could use a Totem Dragon archetype, but I just couldn't get what Totem Warrior was supposed to do.


Take it as you will, but our interpretation of it was that you could select multiple totems at the cost of only being able to use those complimenting rages and totems. I know it's not what it says but we think it's that they meant....

edit: I know this is an old post, but I figure if I needed to know this now, maybe someone else is relying on this now too. (:

Silver Crusade

Bumping this thread...I am also one of those wondering...


CAN YOU FAQ THIS?!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I ALREADY DID, DUDE. I EVEN POSTED IT!


What's the solution?


Where you have posted it?


There is no official answer. The most straightforward conclusion, and the one in the APG, is that any barbarian who takes totem rage powers is a totem warrior. It is not a true Archetype, as it has no mechanical effect.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, now there is an official answer.

The archetype does nothing. Still limited to one set of totem powers though.


I saw JB's statement, but am still confused. Does the UC bit about "...Unless he has selected the totem warrior archetype..." also mean nothing? There's no way to take 2 totems, period?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Wait, I am confused by the FAQ.

Is there no way to gain both a Beast totem and Fiend totem power?

Does the archetype no longer give you access to both?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The UC bit is in error.

You can only have one single totem-rage-power-line. So no fiend totem and beast totem.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Even if you have gotten Rage powers from another source, like the Wild Stalker Ranger archetype?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quote:
Totem rage powers grant powers in a theme. A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers. For example, a barbarian that selects a beast totem rage power cannot later chose to gain any of the spirit totem rage powers.

If they gained rage powers, they are bound by that text, even if they aren't a barbarian.

In any case, think of it thematically.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thematically, I can argue for multiple totems.

It would be nice if the "Totem Warrior" archetype allowed any Totem rage power, but were restricted to choosing Totem rage powers only.

That would give and take something, just like a real archetype.


That "official answer" did not answer the question at hand. It was not the language for the Totem Warrior archetype that was in question. It was the language in the UC that says you were restricted to one group of totem powers, unless you choose the totem warrior archetype.

It's amazing. They could just say that the "unless you choose the totem warrior archetype" language should be deleted or say that it stays. Such an easy question to answer, but the answer the answer they give just creates more confusion.

I think they do this stuff on purpose to keep everyone interested.


So....now there is no way to combine Fiend totem and Beast totem rage powers? *sulks* ....that's just tragic :(

Grand Lodge

I apologize if this has been stated already, but i'm in a hurry and don't have time to read (so enjoy the free thread bump)

One person at Paizo, I believe it was Jason Bulmahn, has admitted that this isn't technically a true archetype, as it doesn't allow anything a normal barbarian can't do (in other words, no, it doesn't let you take multiple totems). It was only listed amongst the archetypes as more of a "themed" barbarian, not a class-ability-altering archetype.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wow, that's so dumb. Like taking multiple totems was such a big deal anyway.

Guess they should just stop printing new totem powers then, it's just a way to pad book length at this point.

At least they said it was banned for thematic, not game balance (that would've been a pretty ridiculous statement) reasons. So if they should ever come out w/ an archetype to take multiple totems it will not sacrifice too much for the luxury, as it's not a game balance issue, so being overly punitive is pointless.
*breaks out laughing*
Yeah, right! It'll probably have d10 HD, or randomly attacks allies, or some other cripplingly painful drawback! This is paizo, and this isn't a caster class!


StreamOfTheSky wrote:


Guess they should just stop printing new totem powers then, it's just a way to pad book length at this point.

taking into account another post of your in another threa i suppose you are talking about the beast totem.

My question is, does barbarian out there always choose the beast totem?

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