RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Yes... Brock and Moreland are definitely exerting too much control over us. Those crazy game designers, who do you they think they are, gods? Free will or death! We should definitely be able to steal from our fellow PCs!
"Captain, our sensors indicate sarcasm dead ahead!"
This is why PVP is a bad idea... Not fun for anyone.
This.
Not from what I'm reading. You think a player should be allowed to take action against another player. This is wrong.
You're not allowed to beat a coworker with a tire iron just because you see him stealing pens or not pulling his weight. You go to a supervisor. And if that supervisor does nothing, you go to his supervisor.
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You do not have agency over your fellow players.
And this.
The third rule of PFS is..."Don't be a dick."
Stealing from other characters, sabotaging their faction missions, killing them for "cheating", breaks the third rule.
And finally, this. Nothing more about PVP in PFS needs to be said, imo.
A properly trained PFS Judge would not allow such things at their table.PFS Judges go through training?Fifteen years, in the Academy of Law, the harshest training programe known to man, before they get their white helmet and half-eagle shoulder pad.
LOL! Okay guys, you got me. What I meant was that a PFS Judge with a strong understanding of the rules, and the sentiment behind them. Trained just sorta came out, since I figured someone, somewhere had to sit them down at some point and say, "Okay, this is why we don't allow PVP..."
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In most cases you are correct! but if that doesnt work or you have a DM that is way too weak in enforcing rules or unwilling to police the players then my definition of "healthy" is the only way players can solve that issue.
No, it isn't. If I was playing at a table with a cheater, and I called them on it and they kept cheating, then I'd just not play with them any more. If everyone refuses to play with cheaters, then they can't play - it's that simple.
On the other end of the spectrum, if PvP was allowed in PFS, I'd quit. I hate the mentality that PvP breeds.
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The reason PFS Gms are called Judges is because they are expected to mediate and maintain standards at the table. The problems you are talking about are in the realm of Judge power, not Player power. A properly trained PFS Judge would not allow such things at their table. The player would be asked to leave, and would eventually be banned from PFS entirely. The problem takes care of itself, and you can focus on making a roleplay focused character, rather than having to make an optimized PVP build.Basically, it sounds like you're afraid of problems going unchecked. What you need to do is find a GM with a solid backbone, and a healthy understanding of the rules. You should find that your problems disappear.
I couldn't' have said it better myself. +1
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I object to player-character versus player-character conflict.
Player-versus-player conflict, I'm more lenient about...it depends on whether or not I have a video camera to record it, and whether the two players are especially entertaining in their rolling and grappling on the floor with cheetos and dice.
That last? Comedy gold. Easily monetized on YouTube.
If you can't, at the very least, be that entertaining when I have a video camera out, don't bring player-verus-player conflict to my gaming.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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This is why PVP is a bad idea... Not fun for anyone.
This.PVP is fun for the winner!
Agreed wholeheartedly. However, PVP style gameplay belongs in PVP styled games - which, as has been said here already, isn't what Pathfinder Society is. If you want to play a thieving, backstabbing rogue, fine. Just do it somewhere else; that rogue doesn't belong in a PFS game.
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To be serious for a second here, I'm a GM who actually likes some player vs player conflict in his games. In my experience, most players don't know how to handle conflict properly and take it too far.
Here is one example of many (and it's not from high school, which would almost always degenerate into a royal rumble at some point).
Two of my friends were playing Wood Elves, who are particularily racist in the campaign, and the rest of the party was human. I suggested to the elves that they could show their racism at the start of the campaign, they'd interact with the other PCs and see that they were wrong, overcome their racism and become friends. Kind of like in the movies right? For example, Legolas and Gimli (in Lord of the Rings) didn't really understand or trust each other's culture at the start and became best friends at the end.
Well... bad idea. What ended up happening was a huge mess. They went way overboard with their racism, did a number of dick moves (fleeing the party in the middle of combat, refusing to take watch at night, refusing to fight opponents when attacked at night). The rest of the party hated them, and then they hated back more. I think at one time the party hunted them? And to culminate the entire thing, they ended up killing an NPC Paladin. I forget why, but they were supposed to be GOOD characters.
So epic fail on their parts, what was supposed to be a cute and witty banter between PCs, eventually created (and ended) a campaign all about PVP.
Anyway, PVP makes for good stories (and short term fun), but PVP can derail and ruin just about any campaign. I guess if you have no real plot or storyline, it could probably be a good thing. However, in organized play, I can only imagine how much drama and trouble it would create.
Btw, this thread has been very entertaining. :)
Director of Brand Strategy
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Wow, I take two days off for the weekend and look what I miss.
I can't say I totally understand the OP's position, but I think I get it enough to answer the question (was there a question in there?)
If you engage in PVP in Pathfinder Society Organized Play for any reason, whether it stems from in- or out-of-character motivations, you are in violation of campaign rules, making you the cheater. There is no PVP in the campaign, nor do we have any plans to add the opportunity for griefers to get lulz at other Pathfinder Society players' expenses. If you want to play that sort of game, the more power to you...somewhere other than a sanctioned PFS event.
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I understand the basic idea behind no pvp in pathfinder society, it helps keep the piece and avoid chaos. However, to me it promotes an atmosphere of tolerance towards player characters who shall I say "fudge" on rolls ,character sheets, etc. what I mean is in my 30 years of playing D&D we used the pvp to police each other and to weed out the cheaters or "fudgers". Players must be able to call out other players when something doesnt seem right or at face value is way off the power base. Another benefit of the pvp is that it provides a healthy competition amongst players to build the best and most powerful character possible because you have to just to be able to hang with the group. player conflict has been and always will be a healthy part of roleplayn games, especially D&D (a.k.a pathfinder)and I would love to see that part return to pathfinder society. just sayn....
Hmm, it seems i have had a very different experience during the 30 years I have played D&D.
PVP has always been strongly discouraged. This is why: in my experience PVP has only served to aggrivate, anger and irratate people. Usually if PVP is used in game to solve disputes it doesn't solve the problem, it only serves to aggravate the problem and they create new ones rotate. While yes i have played a paladin, leading a party on hunt for the party thief, ( when they were called thieves) and we did kill the character (the mage cleric and paladin) when we caught and cornered him, for stealing our cash and stuff and we killed him. Yes i did feel satisfied afterwards. Shortly the thief and his player left the group.D%D now Pathfinder is designed as a cooperative game where the proverbial fighter, thief, cleric and mage work together to over come obstacles. The classes are not designed for PVP.
I realize this is a long thread, and i think most of my points have probably already been made.
anyways i hope this helps.