Building my first pathfinder Paladin! Any thoughts?


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hello! i'm new here and we will start a pathfinder really soon!
I played DD 3.5 but it's the first time i will play Pathfinder.

So for the occasion i'm going to play an Human Paladin.

I need some advices and tips to build.
Our DM only own Core, Advanced and Ultimate magic books so we are limited to those books.

So here it's what i planned:

Race: Human
Class: Paladin (2 Handed with Falchion)

Stats (25 point buy)

STR: 18 (16 + 2 Human)
DEX: 12
CON: 13
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 16

I'm going to use +1 HP for Favored Class and at Level 4 pump up CON to 14.
Level 8 and 12 will go to CHA.

FEATS:

L1: Toughness
Weapon Focus (Falchion)
L3: Power Attack
L5: Greater Mercy
L7: Extra Lay on Hand
L9: Improved Critical
L11: Some choice here: Cleave, Vital Strike, Furious Focus...

Traits:

Sacred Touch
Armor Expert

Any tought on this, is there anything that could be better?
(note that i want to stay 2 handed)

Thanks!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's nothing wrong with your choice and you should keep the following in mind.

While PFS play has it's challenges, it's a campaign deliberately designed not to require super-optimization to participate in. So concentrate on what sings to your heart rather than a spreadsheet.


Paladins are my number 1 favorite class (followed closely by monk), so I've got to chime in.

Nothing wrong with your plan. I, personally, would have put the 18 in charisma rather than strength, but then, I like to emphasize the paladin abilities; I know you're going for higher damage with 2-handed weapons.

I've never been much for the falchion, but that's just a matter of personal style.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I play a Paladin in Society Play and have been having great fun with the Cleave tree.

I'm not sure that Weapon focus is worth it. +1 to attack rolls is fine at 1-2 level, but beyond that it's primary use seems to be as a prerequisite for feats you can't or shouldn't take as a Paladin. I'd go ahead and take Power Attack instead.

Extra Mercy and Extra Lay sound great in theory, but I'm not convinced. You should not be a primary healer, you are the tank. Lay on Hands takes a standard action to use on someone, but only a swift to use on yourself. It's something you use to keep yourself going when you take hits, you shouldn't be wasting attacks healing others. For healing others out of combat (and I have found myself the primary healer more often than not) do what I did and get a couple of wands.

While I loathe the concept of dump stats, I have to reluctantly admit that the Pathfinder Paladin can drop Wis down to 8. With the Paladin having a strong Will save and Divine Grace coming online at level 2 a -1 to Will saves isn't as damaging for the Paladin as it is for other classes. It's not something I advise, especially not at a 25 pt. buy, but if you want to bump up your Con to 14 right at the start it's not as big a problem as it would be for a Fighter.


L1: Toughness
L1: Power Attack
L3: Cleave
L5: Great Cleave
L7: Extra Lay on Hand
L9: Improved Critical
L11: ?

I'm wondering if the Cleave / Great Cleave is better than the Vital Strike / Devastating Strike chain.

Since i'm doing 2 handed Paladin my AC will sucks and using Cleave will suck up another -2 AC and cannot use full round attack, also you are not always surronded by many ennemies.

Vital Strike do not have any penalities, but you loose your full round action like cleave. but there are many times you cannot FRA, like when you move...

I my mind vital strike look better than cleave.


Here is my feat tree I would do:

1. Weapon Focus
1. Power Attack
3. Furious Focus
5. Extra Lay Hands
7. Vital Strike
9. Critical Focus
11. Devastating Strike
13. Improved Vital Strike
15. Improved Devastating Strike
17. Bleeding Critical

I would choose Extra Lay Hands over Toughness. Toughness will give you a +20 hp all up, where as the extra 2 lay hands will go from 1-6hp up to 10-60hp each time you use it. It is only a swift action to use it on yourself so should be able to use it when needed. On totals that’s much better than just a flat 20hp

If you travel down the Vital Strike path then Power Attack and Furious Focus are a great pairing. Furious Focus if using 2 hands on a weapon lets you ignore the penalty from Power Attack for your first attack in each round. Since you will be only doing one attack in the round with Vital Strike then it’s a great thing to have.

Devastating strike is a nice +2 bonus to damage for each vital strike feat you have. Improved Devastating Strike gives that same bonus to critical hit conformation rolls making critical hitting more interesting.

Give your weapon Keen eventually and save the feat slot. You could swap out the Extra Lay Hands for the Improved Critical if you wish to take it as a feat.

Critical Focus gives the bonus to confirmation rolls for making critical hits, eventually adding the Improved Devastating Strike bonus on top would make confirming critical hits almost a guarantee.
Bleeding Critical then adds 2d6 of bleeding damage each round till it is healed.


darkblade1032 wrote:

Here is my feat tree I would do:

Give your weapon Keen eventually and save the feat slot. You could swap out the Extra Lay Hands for the Improved Critical if you wish to take it as a feat.

Critical Focus gives the bonus to confirmation rolls for making critical hits, eventually adding the Improved Devastating Strike bonus on top would make confirming critical hits almost a guarantee.
Bleeding Critical then adds 2d6 of bleeding damage each round till it is healed.

Or you could forget Critical focus and Improved devastating Strike and take Improved Critical and use the spell Bless weapon that make all your critical againts evils foes automatically hit for 1min / lvl this way you save another feat and no need to use a keen Weapon.

Just to be sure:
in the devastating strike description:

"gain a +2 bonus on each extra weapon damage dice roll those feats grant (+6 maximum)."

Since im using a Falchion which is 2D4... devastating strike paired with Vital strike only would give me +4 DMG? since it say +2 per dice roll.. Vital strike let me roll 2 more D4. is i'm right?

Thanks
ps: im sorry if my english is not really good.

Scarab Sages

Get hold of Faiths of Purity and look at the paladin codes. AND stick to the one relevant for your god, just because your character is Lawful Stupid doesn't mean you can twist the situation to allow the other players to get away with stuff....consider the fact that you are the moral compass of the group, even more so than a cleric, regardless of the other PC's alignments.....

I get so p***ed off to see cleric and paldin players not adhering or even attempting to role play the alignment/ advocating the faith in game. It's like they're playing an MMO and having a cleric or paladin just to buff or heal the party or turn undead. It's suppossed to be a ROLE playing game - if you don't want to do this in game, go play D&D 4E :)

GRIPE OVER! NEXT :D

Dark Archive

First, welcome, Pallies are great :). And the two-hander is optimal

For a "do more smite" type, I strongly suggest the Oath of Vengence pally. He gets to trade in 2 lay on hands for a smite @ 4, making the ability useable 5 times for you instead of 2. Gives you more of the pally special.

If you don't like this, the holy tactician is pretty insane as well, basically you give everyone a free teamwork feat. At 3 you can pick up the one that makes sure nobody is ever surprised, or +1 for each ally in contact with you (which is an "extra cheat" with familiars and animal companions), or up damage (give all flankers +2 extra to hit or d6 damage).

For feats, as a two-hander I like:

1) Power Attack, Cleave
3) Cleaving Finish (buys free attacks)
5) Furious Focus

Pallies have swift healing at their disposal... no need for toughness.


Your build is very solid. Weapon Focus is absolutely worth it, IMHO.

I think you don't need "Greater Mercy". Why not take "Extra Lay on Hands" at 5th (if allowed?) and "Leadership" at Level 7?

Level 11: I don't like Cleave too much, it is too situational. Vital Strike makes more sense with a greatsword.

I took Critical Focus after Improved Critical, but I don't need it very often.

Boring but good: Lightning Reflexes.

Sczarni

Turgan wrote:

Your build is very solid. Weapon Focus is absolutely worth it, IMHO.

I think you don't need "Greater Mercy". Why not take "Extra Lay on Hands" at 5th (if allowed?) and "Leadership" at Level 7?

Level 11: I don't like Cleave too much, it is too situational. Vital Strike makes more sense with a greatsword.

I took Critical Focus after Improved Critical, but I don't need it very often.

Boring but good: Lightning Reflexes.

A +1 to hit at level 1 on a character that starts with BAB 1 and has 18 Str is not necessary...you're talking about a +5 to hit without the Weapon Focus.

You are losing a very valuable asset IMO by taking Weapon Focus as opposed to something else.

Don't forget that you can use shields...I know you want to use 2H weapons, BUT there are and will be situations where you will want a 1H weapon and shield in your possession. Don't be one of the guys that doesn't take them.

Cleave is SUPER situational in Pathfinder...go reread the text.

And if you go the crit route (which is what I did on my switch hitter Ranger) I'd recommend Blinding Critical or Paralyzing. Bleeding is good, but things that can't see or move is better.

Dark Archive

Cleave is situation; cleaving finish is not. It's my favorite finisher for two-handers, and cleave, meh, it's a combat expertise-style chain feat with occasional uses.

Sczarni

Thalin wrote:
Cleave is situation; cleaving finish is not. It's my favorite finisher for two-handers, and cleave, meh, it's a combat expertise-style chain feat with occasional uses.

Correct.

I had 3 characters with Cleave and only used it like maybe twice...

Liberty's Edge

Since your playing a Human Paladin, you should use the alternate class features from the APG to give your self permanent energy resistance for your favorite class bonus. That will earn it's weight in gold far sooner than a few bonus hit points. Plus your already taking toughness and plan to boost con, you should already be hit point heavy.

Despite the naysayers, Greater Mercy rocks. For every mercy my paladin is not affected by I'd get another 1d6 to healing! Hence another reason to not worry too much about it.

I agree with the cleave assesment. It is so situational that you will rarely ever see it come up. Instead follow up Power Attack with Furios Focus. Now you don't take the penalty to hit for your first strike in a round.

There is a trait in the APG that grants Use Magic device as a class skill with a +1 trait bonus. This is a must for the ever prepared Paladin.

My final bit of advice is to switch Charisma & Strength. I know it sounds crazy, but what is more common to come across, a strength boosting item or a charisma boosting item? You can reap a lot more benifits from a higher Charisma as a paladin than a high strength, and your progression sees that it won't end up any higher till 12lvl. You'd probably die from an unlucky save by then. Futhermore, Higher charisma means better deflection bonus and to - hit with smite evil, which will give you better damage on target when it counts anyways. Potions of bull's strength are pretty common, but how often are you going to drink an eagle's splendor in combat?


Thalin wrote:

First, welcome, Pallies are great :). And the two-hander is optimal

For a "do more smite" type, I strongly suggest the Oath of Vengence pally. He gets to trade in 2 lay on hands for a smite @ 4, making the ability useable 5 times for you instead of 2. Gives you more of the pally special.

If you don't like this, the holy tactician is pretty insane as well, basically you give everyone a free teamwork feat. At 3 you can pick up the one that makes sure nobody is ever surprised, or +1 for each ally in contact with you (which is an "extra cheat" with familiars and animal companions), or up damage (give all flankers +2 extra to hit or d6 damage).

For feats, as a two-hander I like:

1) Power Attack, Cleave
3) Cleaving Finish (buys free attacks)
5) Furious Focus

Pallies have swift healing at their disposal... no need for toughness.

Oath of vengence look good for the ability to get more smith but at 11th lvl i prefer the base paladin aura of justice.

In which book is the Holy Tactician? don't forget that we are just allowed to use PH, APH and UM.

So... I would like to keep 18 STR since +4 x 1.5 2H = +6 DMG.. else the +3 for 16 Str will just give me +4 dmg.

What i can do, is to boost CHA to 18 at Lvl 8 and wait till lvl12 to raise Con to 14.

Feats:

L1: Power Attack
L1: Extra Lay on Hand
L3: Greater Mercy
L5: Furious Focus
L7: Vital Strike
L9: Improved Critical
L11: Improved Vital Strike
L13: Devastating Strike

I can use the favored class to get +1 Energy Resistance (FIRE?) / LVL instead of +1 HP.

But without Toughness, +1 HP Favored Class and 14 Con not before lvl12 that's means i will just have +1 HP / lvl until lvl12.

But i have +1D6 healing / lay on hand if not using mercy.

As for Cleaving Finish it's in a book we can't use.


Maculosa wrote:


Feats:

L1: Power Attack
L1: Extra Lay on Hand
L3: Greater Mercy
L5: Furious Focus
L7: Vital Strike
L9: Improved Critical
L11: Improved Vital Strike
L13: Devastating Strike

Your feat tree will have to be modified a little:

I might be wrong but as i understand you have to have the Lay Hands ability to take Extra Lay on Hands feat, which a paladin doesn't get till second level. You need to swap Extra Lay on Hands around with Furious Focus for you to meet the requirements.

L1: Power Attack
L1: Furious Focus
L3: Greater Mercy
L5: Extra Lay on Hand
L7: Vital Strike
L9: Improved Critical
L11: Improved Vital Strike
L13: Devastating Strike


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ossian666 wrote:
Thalin wrote:
Cleave is situation; cleaving finish is not. It's my favorite finisher for two-handers, and cleave, meh, it's a combat expertise-style chain feat with occasional uses.

Correct.

I had 3 characters with Cleave and only used it like maybe twice...

I'm doing Society Play and find I'm using Cleave during at least one encounter per scenario. Though if you don't have access to Cleaving Finish you do lose much of the cleave tree's utility.


Quote:

Your feat tree will have to be modified a little:

I might be wrong but as i understand you have to have the Lay Hands ability to take Extra Lay on Hands feat, which a paladin doesn't get till second level. You need to swap Extra Lay on Hands around with Furious Focus for you to meet the requirements.

L1: Power Attack
L1: Furious Focus
L3: Greater Mercy
L5: Extra Lay on Hand
L7: Vital Strike
L9: Improved Critical
L11: Improved Vital Strike
L13: Devastating Strike

You are right, my error Thanks

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Devastating Strike provides a benefit per ROLL of the damage dice, not per die.
Thus, Vital Strike, +2 dmg, because you roll sword damage twice.
Improved, +4, because you roll damage three times.
Greater, +6, etc.

In other words, wahoo. Furious Focus and Power Attack will generally net you MUCH more damage.

Not all foes you fight will be Evil, and you don't have infinite smites. A higher Str is thus more important...your combat bonuses will be the same regardless of combo when smiting, but better outside Smiting with high Str. Add to your Cha as you go along. The save boosts and stuff are useful, but combat is combat.

For Equipment I suggest getting a Sun Sword, Adamantine, and eventually upgrading it to +5. Yeah, yeah, you can do a falchion...but why? Sword and shield, leave 2h as an OPTION, rather then the default.

Your optimal weapon is probably a longsword + shield until you can get a proto-Sun Sword that can be wielded as a Shortsword, then switch to that. Use a buckler for defense.

In any round you need AC, one hand = buckler. In any round you want to Hulk Smash, use two. Mithral buckler = no penalty. Versatility is key in these things!

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

Devastating Strike provides a benefit per ROLL of the damage dice, not per die.

Thus, Vital Strike, +2 dmg, because you roll sword damage twice.
Improved, +4, because you roll damage three times.
Greater, +6, etc.

In other words, wahoo. Furious Focus and Power Attack will generally net you MUCH more damage.

Not all foes you fight will be Evil, and you don't have infinite smites. A higher Str is thus more important...your combat bonuses will be the same regardless of combo when smiting, but better outside Smiting with high Str. Add to your Cha as you go along. The save boosts and stuff are useful, but combat is combat.

For Equipment I suggest getting a Sun Sword, Adamantine, and eventually upgrading it to +5. Yeah, yeah, you can do a falchion...but why? Sword and shield, leave 2h as an OPTION, rather then the default.

Your optimal weapon is probably a longsword + shield until you can get a proto-Sun Sword that can be wielded as a Shortsword, then switch to that. Use a buckler for defense.

In any round you need AC, one hand = buckler. In any round you want to Hulk Smash, use two. Mithral buckler = no penalty. Versatility is key in these things!

==Aelryinth

I must say we will not be able to buy the stuffs we want, most of the magic stuffs will have to be found. So this means probably we wont have all the good we would like to have.. so my character do not have to rely on magic items.


Maculosa wrote:

Just to be sure:
in the devastating strike description:

"gain a +2 bonus on each extra weapon damage dice roll those feats grant (+6 maximum)."

Since im using a Falchion which is 2D4... devastating strike paired with Vital strike only would give me +4 DMG? since it say +2 per dice roll.. Vital strike let me roll 2 more D4. is i'm right?

Thanks
ps: im sorry if my english is not really good.

Not quite. With vital strike and devastating strike you would gain +2 damage. It is +2 per extra damage dice roll, not per extra damage die. Basically, devastating strike gives bonus damage based on the feat paired with it: vital strike is +2, improved VS is +4 and greater VS is +6.

Edit: Ninja'd


hgsolo wrote:
Maculosa wrote:

Just to be sure:
in the devastating strike description:

"gain a +2 bonus on each extra weapon damage dice roll those feats grant (+6 maximum)."

Since im using a Falchion which is 2D4... devastating strike paired with Vital strike only would give me +4 DMG? since it say +2 per dice roll.. Vital strike let me roll 2 more D4. is i'm right?

Thanks
ps: im sorry if my english is not really good.

Not quite. With vital strike and devastating strike you would gain +2 damage. It is +2 per extra damage dice roll, not per extra damage die. Basically, devastating strike gives bonus damage based on the feat paired with it: vital strike is +2, improved VS is +4 and greater VS is +6.

Edit: Ninja'd

Good i was not sure.

In the Advanced player guide, the Human paladin favored class give +1 to energy resistance, max +10... so at LV10 you can have +10 to one kind of energy resistance... but what after level 10? do you choose another type of energy that you can put to +10 at lvl20? (at lvl20 you will have +10 to 2 type of energy resistance?)

Also which skills a paladin with only 2 skills / level should focus?
i tought on diplomacy and Umd if i take the trait dangerously curious.

Liberty's Edge

The answer to all of your above questions is Yes! You switch the bonus to energy resistance at 10th level, or you can do what I did and switched out at 5pts to another energy type. Most of the APs end around 15 - 17th level, which isn't to say that your character won't likely max out more than one Energy type.
Yes again to your question on skills, however unless you are switching out for the heart of the fields trait - which is awesome for humans - you'll get 1 extra skill point per level, with a 10 intelligence you should have 3 skillpoints per level.
The next question comes, what are you choosing for your divine bond? If your choosing a mount take at least 5 ranks in ride in addition to maxing out UMD and Diplomacy.
If not, you've got an extra skill point to play with. My first thought is perception even though it is not a class skill. You can take the faith trait of Abadar called Eyes & Ears of the city to make it a class skill, netting a +4 bonus to boot.
However if your runing an AP, you'll likely be required to take a campaign trait, and I'd not give up UMD for perception. Let everyone else look for danger and point you in the right direction. Besides, Detect Evil can compensate for this a little bit.
Other good choices for a paladin are intimidate or any of the knowledge skills. Detecting Evil takes time, but a knowledge check is much faster, this will let you know if it's okay to smite a bit quicker.
Final note about Extra Lay on Hands. Don't. See if your GM will allow the Adventurers armory. There is an item in there called a focusing crystal. For the cost of 100gp each, you can carry around 2 of these and when your runing low on lay on hands you can spend a minute a piece focusing on your crystal to regain a use of lay on hands. That feat can be used on other things. If you had a higher intelligence, I'd say go for Unsanctioned Knowledge - you choose 1 spell per spell level from the bard, cleric/oracle, or inquisitor spell lists to become spells on your paladin spell list. There are a lot of fun things you can do with that. Paladin with Haste, anyone?
Though, to be truthful, your probably better of going back to taking toughness. Yes, you can heal your wounds very easily, but you still have to survive the hit.


Just a comment about the Extra Lay on Hands feat: it only gives a benefit if you use up all your normal lay on hands in a day. Otherwise it becomes a wasted feat. At lower levels its much more likely that you will use all your LoH in a day; at higher levels this is less likely. Also if there is a cleric or another solid healer in the party you will be less likely to use channel energy and won't burn through LoHs nearly as fast.

Thus, if it doesn't seem likely that you would use all your LoHs regularly, then another feat would probably have more benefit.

Toughness and Greater Mercy offer comparable benefits to Extra LoH. Toughness gives more hp obviously; yet while Extra LoH will offer a mathematical increase in total hp benefit, the actual use of the extra hps lowers the benefit. First it still requires an action to make use of the extra hps from extra LoH even if just a swift action; i.e. the 10 hps toughness gives you at level 10 might be the difference between surviving another round or not, as opposed to being unconsious and unable to make use of LoH.

Greater Mercy likewise won't generally give as much of a mathematical benefit as extra LoH if you are just totalling up overall hp benefit. But again its getting those hps when you need them, and can potentially result in not needing to use as many LoHs in the first place. For instance, at 6th lvl if a Paladin with Greater Mercy uses LoH three rounds in a row and gets the extra d6 from Greater Mercy on each of those, he's achieved the same result as having used a free LoH, albeit without having to spend the time or action to get the benefit of that free LoH. This diminishes at higher levels where LoH does more healing with each use, but at lower levels that 1d6 can be significant.

I would note that extra LoH translates into one extra channel energy too, so if you see yourself doing a lot of that it will offer a benefit re channeling energy whereas the other two feats do not. Additionally, LoH can be used offensively against undead, so if that is a common use of your LoH the extra uses will have more benefit, whereas the other feats offer no benefit when using LoH offensively.

In any event, my point would be that all three feats have their benefits depending on your play style and group composition. Use whichever one sounds like the most fun.


First off, your trait should include the +2 caster level one (magical knack) for paladin. If you fear a stingy low magic campaign you're going to need the extra durations on your buffs. There is another trait in the religion section to get UMD and that might be my second, but that might not be in the books you have to work with.

In my opinion, a two hander and power attack are all a paladin needs to really rock the house for combat. If you can take cleave (and I would), so much the better, but your melee effectiveness is pretty solid at that point. I like the crit chains, but they're merely an afterthought, late level feat filler if you will.

I think unsanctioned knowledge is the best feat you can snag, especially considering your limited treasure fears. You can cover a lot of that ground by the use of this feat to slap insane bonuses on you and the other more lackluster melee combatants. I always assume a party lacks a bard

1- Too many spells are good to list here. The problem is most of them are just as good in potion form, so I say Timely Inspiration off the bard list. It's an immediate action to give someone a sudden +1-+3 on a failed roll, it's going to stay useful your entire character life, and you'll end many more days without level 1 spells remaining.
2- Heroism, it's +2 (moral bonus) to attacks, saves, and skill checks for 10 min/level. By the time you get this, it will last through a good portion of a dungeon, especially if you lay your hands on a rod of extend spell.
3- Haste is okay here but by now SOMEONE in the party has to have that. Blink? Displacement? Good Hope is pretty much heroism with +2 damage but shorter duration and for the whole party. It all depends on your party configuration and what your role is.
4- It depends. Deadly juggernaut (from level 3) provides a luck bonus too so Divine Power might not be the best pick if you're the guy racking up all the kills (and hence luck bonses). Blessing of fervor for the party may seem a little lackluster but it's got a lot of versatility.

The rest of the feats you have really don't matter, the stuff above forms the core to any super flexible paladin. If you want to use a shield get bastard sword EWP and a buckler, suffering only a -1 to hit while two handed. Swap between the styles as needed. I always felt lay on hands made up for the missed shield AC, but it never hurts to have the option.

If you're really in trouble on magic items and none of the other party members will take them, craft wonderous items and craft arms/armor will pay off bigtime. You'd need to pump spellcraft though. If your party makes you take these feats (by not getting the casters to take them) then only craft for your party with a profit. Charge them 85 or 90% of the value of the item and keep the profit for yourself so you can get more items, melee needs more item support anyway so it's really just helping them, and it's a good bad decision tax on the others who wouldn't take them.

Paladins can be effective in a ton of configurations, it's hard to have a bad paladin unless it's just poorly played.


For my divine bond i will focus on Weapons bond.
and where does it say you can get +1 skill with divine bond?
not sure to understand.

What energy resistance type its best to focus on?

Finally i tought we had access to UM book but NOT! we have to stick
only with PG and APG!

So no go for Great Mercy. (will take toughtness)
I wrote that i would like to take Devastating strike but not access to this feat.. so maybe vital strike chain without devastating strike not worth it... better going with cleave.

the unsanctioned knowledge feat look really good but no access to it. :(

Also we do not have a bard or cleric in the group.

1 TWF fighter
1 Oracle of fire
1 Inquisitor
1 Summoner
1 Paladin (me)

Liberty's Edge

Human racial features - +1 feat at 1st level, +1 skill point per level. This is where I was getting the extra skill point from.

Energy resistence, I'd say fire is most common to be used against you. Find out a little bit more about the campaign and make the choice then. For instance, if your going to be in the land of the linnorm kings, you might prefer cold resistance. This way you get to ignore inconveniences like heavy winter wear or checks for frostbite. There are also a fair number of cold using enemies in the north as well.
If your going to an arid area, or really any where else, go with fire.
Electricity and Acid resistence are nothing to sneeze at, but your less likely to run around in an area where your going to have environmental effects related to it that your permanent resistance can help against.

Sucks that you can't use the Ultimate Magic. However, noticing that your party is arcane light really makes UMD important.

Alternatively, some people have made a point about taking item creation feats. If your expecting to be treasure light, load up on spellcraft and take Craft Wonderous Items and/or Craft Arms & Armor. This will go a long ways toward helping with the functionality of the party. I'd take wonderous items over arms & armor, as you will eventually see magic weapons, but amulets of natural armor & cloaks of resistance will be helpful from early on.

Since your only full caster is the Oracle of Fire, ask to see if he'll take Craft Wands. Sure, you won't have a full list available to you if he were a cleric, but he can make wands of cureing and even Fireball, which you could use with UMD. A level 5 wand of Burning hands rocks hard when you've got swarms to deal with and nobody with AOEs.


Splash 8 levels of Sorcerer and 10 levels of Eldritch Knight. ;)


Maculosa wrote:

Also we do not have a bard or cleric in the group.

1 TWF fighter
1 Oracle of fire
1 Inquisitor
1 Summoner
1 Paladin (me)

That shouldn´t be much of a problem, as both the Inquisitor and the oracle can cast cure spells spontaneously and you can can heal yourself, at least.

Seriously, i don´t think you´ll need Toughness, if you roll HP half-way decently, rather take Extra Lay on hands earlier.

Dark Archive

I'd just go combat-heavy; healing is pretty much covered.

I'd just do the pre-prescribed power attack-cleave-finish line, then pick up furious focus and weapon focus. You'll have tons of hp and can swift-action heal, and you'll have solid AC with your full plate. You don't need extra lay on hands; the 5 you have at level 4 will be more than sufficient, and it just keeps going up. Remember, it's swift action healing for yourself; so pretend it is lots of extra HP.


Thalin wrote:

the 5 you have at level 4 will be more than sufficient, and it just keeps going up. Remember, it's swift action healing for yourself; so pretend it is lots of extra HP.

There´s that, too.

For a 2-hander, i would also recommend shield of swings and pushing assault, exspecially nice, if your going the critical route with a falchion. See also Anatomist Trait, only +1 to confirm), but nobody expects a paladin to be nimble in armor, though it would be a nice novelty.

The problem with vital strike in your case is the falchion, it´s much more fun with a greatsword, but if you make your bonded weapon keen early, you should be golden anyways.

Liberty's Edge

IMNSHO "spam-can" (high-STR/low-DEX/low-INT) paladins are intensely boring.

= = = = =

STR+16
DEX:16
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:07
CHA:14

deity: Shelyn
traits: Dangerously Curious, Threatening Defender

01 pala1 Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus:Glaive
02 monk1 [Flowing][Improved Trip]
03 pala2 Improved Reposition
04 pala3 WIS>08
05 pala4 [Channel Positive Energy], Crusader's Flurry
06 pala5 [Weapon Bond]
07 monk2 [Combat Reflexes], Greater Trip
08 pala6 CHA>15, ...etc.

Armor: Threatening Defender + Combat Expertise + Ring of Protection + Mage Armor (cast off wand pre-fight) = 18 touch-AC at 5th. (Would be better as a cleric doing the same thing since it'd gain a WIS bonus for monk AC, but this particular build's modus operandi is to deny the enemy melee access.)


Mike Schneider wrote:

IMNSHO "spam-can" (high-STR/low-DEX/low-INT) paladins are intensely boring.

= = = = =

STR+16
DEX:16
CON:14
INT:14
WIS:07
CHA:14

deity: Shelyn
traits: Dangerously Curious, Threatening Defender

01 pala1 Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus:Glaive
02 monk1 [Flowing][Improved Trip]
03 pala2 Improved Reposition
04 pala3
05 pala4 [Channel Positive Energy], Crusader's Flurry
06 pala5 [Weapon Bond]
07 monk2 [Combat Reflexes], Greater Trip
08 pala6 ...etc.

Did you really mean 7 Wisdom? That's gonna hurt Will saves and monk AC bonus... Plus, can you really picture such a dedicated ascetic holy warrior so lacking in wisdom and determination? Seems he'd be the laughing-stock of the monastery. I'd bring down Intelligence, Constitution and Strength before I sank Wisdom that low.

GT

Liberty's Edge

Glen Taylor wrote:
Did you really mean 7 Wisdom?
Yes. Wisdom is pure dump-stat for a paladin, and especially one with two monk levels
Quote:
can you really picture such a dedicated ascetic holy warrior so lacking in wisdom and determination? Seems he'd be the laughing-stock of the monastery.
The laughing-stock of the monastery is not the resourceful (if reckless) paladin who efficiently get things done with lots of attacks, opportunities and immediate actions as well as pinch spellcasting via UMD -- it's his INT7 drooling idiot cousin who's still back at the barracks putting his breastplate on upside-down.
Quote:
I'd bring down Intelligence, Constitution and Strength before I sank Wisdom that low.

The build above is immune to fear at 4th and immune to charms at 10th, and doesn't care about much else once he begins stacking CHA enhancements via Divine Grace. With monk class bonus, he even has a good Perception score.


If you are planning on being the party tank (aside from the Summoner's Eidelon, that is) I definitely suggest the Vital Strike tree with as much of the Cleave tree as you can get. Since you're also using a falchion, the Feats Imp Crit and Crit Focus are also Great additions. However, of the Crit. feats, I'd chose Blinding Crit every time, hands down. True, it allows for a Fort save to reduce the effect, but you should have a good chance of getting a crit each round, and if they ever fail, they are permanently blinded (short of a remove blindness spell or something better), giving you total concealment (50% miss chance, assuming they target the right square to begin with, and they are flat footed, too bad you don't have a rogue).

For this build you could even stack the Hospitalier and Divine Defender archetypes (both in APG), and all you'd lose is the Mercy ability and Aura of Justice, respectively. If you were really set on a melee-only tact, you could even give up spellcasting and Aura of Faith and take on the Warrior of the Holy Light archetype for unlimited (as far as I can tell) uses of an impressive one minute buff which improves as you gain levels and a few more uses of Lay on Hands.

If, on the other hand, you were thinking to be the party healer or buffer, you could still take the first 2 archetypes presented, but instead of the Warrior of the Holy Light, take the Sacred Servant, gain extra Smite Evils, one Domain (my choices being between Healing and Protection), and extra domain spell slots. You even get a completely free use of a Planar Ally spell, though you do trade out Aura of Resolve for it. One thing to note: Divine Defender gives you the option to bond with your armor instead of your weapon or mount (as designated by the use of the word "may"), whereas Sacred Servant requires that you bond with you holy symbol, so you won't be doing quite as much damage, but you will be casting all cure spells as though they were Empowered (or benefiting from/granting a significant resistance bonus to saves, deflection bonus to AC, and energy resistance, depending on your Domain).

Oh, & if you don't mind being small, Halflings can get extra Lay on Hands as their Favored Class bonus, excellent for a healing build. Unfortunately, without the other books you will be missing out on Word of Healing, Greater Mercy, and Ultimate Mercy as a healing Paladin, though I probably wouldn't worry about taking the Extra Lay on Hands feat. It costs too much for too little in my opinion. Better to focus on the feats that will let you deal dmg either way, so you aren't trapped into the "I can't heal it to death" corner.

Liberty's Edge

Two levels of Flowing Monk for Unbalancing Counter + 1 level of barbarian & Extra Rage for power = instant screw-job of anybody who dares attack you in melee. Sneak-attack classes the rest of the way.


OK i got a LOT of usefull tips and tricks in the thread! thank you everyone!

Tonight i had a talk with my friend who will play the Fighter.
(we will start the campain next Monday).
I tought he would do the TWF Fighter and i was wrong, He will did 2HW figher focusing on Falchion and critical! like me! but he deceided that before me... i do not want to play something similar to him so i have to change my mind but i still want to play a Paladin!

So from now, 2 options for me, Archer Paladin or Sword and Board.
I'm learning toward archer. i know there is an archetype in ultimate combat but i have no access to it...

I will have to do some read about Archer Paladin.

Stats could look something like that:

STR: 13 (14 at Lvl4)
DEX : 18 (16 + 2 Human)
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 16

i'm sorry for this change after all the advices. :(

Liberty's Edge

You can still TWF with agile weapons.


This is a Paladin I play in PFS - it's a 20 point build.

Agda Haskell

Not an archer-paladin, but an unusual Paladin build.

She's going Paladin to level 5, then switching to Shadowdancer from levels 6 to 9, and Paladin from 10 to 12th (which is the cap for PFS play)

Traits:
Armor Training - since she's going to be doing sneaky-git stuff, reducing ACP is more important than it is for a typical Paladin.
Vagabond Child - taken to get Disable Device as a class skill, since it's the only one of the "Rogue" skills that Shadowdancer doesn't get as a class skill.

Feats:
Power Attack: The most useful combat feat in the game.
Combat Reflexes: Needed as a pre-req for Shadowdancer, and rather useful when playing "person who keeps people from thwacking the squishies".
Dodge: Needed as a pre-req for Shadowdancer. More AC doesn't suck given the light armor focus.
Mobility: Needed as a pre-req for Shadowdancer. Otherwise, kind of 'meh', though being able to get close to someone to lay on hands and not worrying about an AoO is nice.

Stat bumps:

+1 STR at 4th
+1 INT at 8th
not sure at 12th. Probably CHA plus a manual to get a +2.

Dark Archive

Don't bother increasing Str @ 4; stick everything into Dex and don't look back.

Standard archery line is Point Blank, Precise, Rapid @ 3, Deadly Aim @ 5, Multishot @ 7, option @ 9, Improved Precise @ 11. Sadly not a lot of room for change there.

As an archerdin Oath of Vengence is even better. And believe it or not the level 11 is better in the sense that it only costs 1 smite to share out, not 2, even if it doesn't provide quite the benefit. But smite is KEY for the archer paladin, as more attacks = more smite.

I'd personally go Halfling and dump Wis (Str: 13 Int: 10 Wis: 7 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 18). The Halfling gets +1 to saves, and further you end up with +1 to saves from Cha. The end result is a break-even for Will and +2 to all other saves. Additionally, you trade +1 to damage for +1 to hit (a good trade), and improve smites. Finally, the riding dog fits into dungeons far better than the horse; makes maneuvering easier. Does put off deadly aim to 9 though, but Oath of Vengence-style smites will be how you get up the damage output.


Maculosa wrote:

I will have to do some read about Archer Paladin.

Stats could look something like that:

STR: 13 (14 at Lvl4)
DEX : 18 (16 + 2 Human)
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 16

i'm sorry for this change after all the advices. :(

Maybe talk with the other players too. If the summoners eidolon is a tank and/or the inquisitor is going ranged with a repeating crossbow, you might need a melee-character.

Consider elf for a dex build, as you can weapon-finesse an elven curve-blade for a switch-hitter. Another feat though and an archer-built is feat-intensive.


I'm checking both Archer and Sword and board,

For the sword and board, what do you think of that:

Human

STR: 16
DEX: 15 (13 + 2)
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 16

L1: Exotic Weapon profiency (Falcata)
L1: Two Weapon Fighting
L3: Improved Shield Bash
L5: Double Slice
L7: Shield Slam
L9: Improved Critical
L11: Shield Master

Sure it do not have to damage power of 2H or Archer but he can get nice AC. And maybe it's a bit for fun to play that just keep in distance and shooting arrows.

but it's really feat intensive... so no place for power attack, Extra lay on hand, toughtness, weapon focus etc...


NAASTY..i mean, nice, though i´d recommend a few changes.

L1: Falcata- great weapon, even more fun than a bastard-sword
L1: Power Attack - it´s a bank, for day-to-day-work
L3: Two Weopon Fighting - with more BAB the penalties hurt you less
L5:Improved Shield Bash ? or cleave or two-weapon defense?
Shield Slam is great though for breaking formations

My reasoning is, you don´t need Double Slice, as you mostly attack with both hands/weapons when you´re smiting, your strength bonus won´t mean much then.

PS: Try putting the racial bonus to get a 16, after point-buy.


RedPorcupine wrote:

NAASTY..i mean, nice, though i´d recommend a few changes.

L1: Falcata- great weapon, even more fun than a bastard-sword
L1: Power Attack - it´s a bank, for day-to-day-work
L3: Two Weopon Fighting - with more BAB the penalties hurt you less
L5:Improved Shield Bash ? or cleave or two-weapon defense?
Shield Slam is great though for breaking formations

My reasoning is, you don´t need Double Slice, as you mostly attack with both hands/weapons when you´re smiting, your strength bonus won´t mean much then.

PS: Try putting the racial bonus to get a 16, after point-buy.

Improved Shild bath let you keep your shield bonus when you do a shield attack.

Shield Slam has improved shield bash as requiement.

And Shield Master have Shield slam as requiement.
Shield Master negate twf penalities when using your shield.


Maculosa wrote:
Shield Master negate twf penalities when using your shield.

I know, a great line. Just presenting options. You´ll be hell...ahh.. holy retribution on wheels, anyways. Mostly a style question.


Turgan wrote:
Boring but good: Lightning Reflexes.

I love the feats which boost saves, especially on a paladin. When they are coupled with Divine Grace, the paladin becomes very prone to making their saving throws. The 18 charisma paladin can be a GM frustration device. :D

You are right though, these are boring feats. They don't get used every session, but when they matter, they matter big time.


My first Pathfinder Paladin, Core Rulebook Only. This Paladin is the only fighter in a party of four: Paladin, Cleric, Sorcerer, Rogue. My priority was consistent damage output while absorbing front-line punishment.

Human Paladin, Two-handed fighter
Rolled stats-
STR: 16
DEX: 10
CON: 14
INT: 13
WIS: 9
CHA: 16

Int 13 was not smart (ironically), should have taken the 13 in Dex to get a bump in CMD.

Traits: Rich Parents, Aspiring Crusader. Both of these were taken for flavor, and wanted Half Plate at first level.

Leveling up plan:
1. Power Attack, Cleave
2. (no choices)
3. Weapon Focus: Greatsword; Mercy: Sickened
4. +1 STR
5. [??? Step Up, Extra Lay on Hands, Weapon Expertise]; Divine Bond: Weapon
6. Mercy: Fatigued
7. Lunge
8. +1 STR
9. Critical Focus; Mercy: Nauseated
10. (no choices)
11. [??? Bleeding Critical, Vital Strike, Blind-Fight]
12. +1 CHA; Mercy: Blinded


Hey everyone! I'm new to the paladin class as well. I am building a level 2 paladin. I am not sure what the best race or weapon would be for the archetype called the hospitaler. I only have 700 gold starting out. I would like to heal but still be able to do good damage. We can only use core, featured, standard and uncommon races. Right now, I am favoring human or aasimar. Any help would be much appreciated.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Building my first pathfinder Paladin! Any thoughts? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.