Alright heres what i wanna know, How would YOU build BATMAN
Rules
-10 times wealth per level
-102 point buy (so all 18s)
-10th lv
GO
There's a fairly lengthy thread on this already that shouldn't be to hard to find, and at a 102 pt. buy you're building Superman, not Batman.
First I'd use D20 Modern and use the Smart Hero build, not Pathfinder. Or use Mutants and Masterminds. Or DC Heroes. Appropriate tool for the appropriate job. Pathfinder is simply too anachronistic for modern day adventures, especially in the super hero genre.
:( but thats no fun :(
I wouldn't go straight 18's, but that's just me. I'd probably go with an 18 Intelligence to start, but the other stats are really up to debate.
Best way to do it would be Alchemist/Monk. Ignore the Mutagen altogether, but you'll need gadgets, and alchemy and bombs can make that happen.
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I believe we should begin with establishing Batman's alignment.
Oh, you. Don't troll the poor boy's thread.
I believe we should begin with establishing Batman's alignment.
This made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the morning pick me up Gorbacz.
I believe we should begin with establishing Batman's alignment.Oh, you. Don't troll the poor boy's thread.
Is it really trolling or is it just an attempt to show yet another reason why its friggan hard to stat up a modern superhero using a fantasy rpg.
Is it really trolling or is it just an attempt to show yet another reason why its friggan hard to stat up a modern superhero using a fantasy rpg.I believe we should begin with establishing Batman's alignment.Oh, you. Don't troll the poor boy's thread.
hah, it's not hard - it's hard getting anyone ELSE to agree with what you end up posting.
and yes, it's trolling. It's hilarious, but it's trolling.
I've only heroically threw myself on a live grenade that was bound to blow up at any moment.
Nobody respects such selfless altruism any more *shrugs*
;-)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA alright... you sir, win todays No-Prize.
A CG monk with a handy haversack that had something for just about any situation, to simulate a utility belt. Maybe even a monk/rouge hybrid since he would have a ridiculous amount of skills.
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I believe we should begin with establishing Batman's alignment.
No problem. Here you go.
I believe we should begin with establishing Batman's alignment.No problem. Here you go.
Excellent. My thoughts on the matter are well supported. :-P
I'd go with Bard.
He's definitely Cha based with Int as his second stat. He's got a ton of knowledge skills and a utility belt (UMD). His big combat schtick is knowing and targetting his opponents vulnerabilites and, of the big five DC heroes, he's got more followers than anyone else.
I really dont get the people who call batman a bard. He doesnt cast spells or have anything related to the kind of charm and illusion spells the bard is good at. He also doesnt perform. So where is the bard part? Skills and knowledge can be gotten from other classes, like say... the ninja or rogue.
Every time i see bard recommended I wonder if there is some comic out there I missed where batman goes around with a lute.
Alright here's what i wanna know, How would YOU build BATMAN
Rules
-10 times wealth per level
-102 point buy (so all 18s)
-10th lv
GO
Assuming you have to go with Pathfinder rules, I would say Batman is a True Neutral Human Fighter 4/Rogue 6. Let's go with the all 18s for stats, just because Batman is so good at everything, it is very hard to determine what would be subpar!
BAB: +8/+3
Powers:
Bravery
Armor Training (he probably would wear some magical Elven Chain to provide a 0 check penalty (-2 from being masterwork/magical and the armor training).
3 Bonus Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike
Sneak Attack +3d6
Trapfinding
Evasion
Trapsense
Uncanny Dodge
3 Rogue Talents: Fast Stealth, Ki Pool, Peerless Maneuver
Other Feats (Human, 1, 3, 5, 7, & 9):
Just off the top of my head: Acrobatic, Diehard, Dodge, Hero's Fortune (Luck), Improved Initiative, Toughness
Skills (28 Fighter (2+4+1(human)x4) & 84 Rogue(8+4+1(human)+1(favored)x6) 112 skill points:
Acrobatics (10), Bluff (for feints) (9), Climb (5), Craft (Alchemy) (8), Disable Device (4), Disguise (4), Escape Artist (3), Fly (3), Intimidate (10), Knowledge (Arcana) (2), Knowledge (Engineering)(4), Knowledge (Local) (8), Knowledge (all others) 1 each (6 points), Linguistics (4), Perception (10), Profession (Businessman) (8), Sense Motive (8), Sleight Of Hand (4), Survival (2)
Items:
Stealthed Elven Chain (Base +6 bonus, light armor, full movement, no check penalty) Magical bonus undecided....
Masterwork Throwing Darts (bat-a-rangs)
Rope of Climbing
Magic Gloves (like Dueling only they allow Disarm Checks), so he can disarm foes easier).
Cloak of Resistance
Ring of Feather Fall (perhaps using this with is Cloak, he can glide)
I am sure I am missing something, but I would say that Batman actually focuses more on Defense than Offense. In addition, I would say that Batman is True Neutral, so he can't be a Monk. And you wouldn't want him to be a Monk anyway, as they can't use their abilities when wearing any armor, and Batman most certainly wears armor.
Feel free to tear it apart. :)
I'd go with Bard.
He's definitely Cha based with Int as his second stat. He's got a ton of knowledge skills and a utility belt (UMD). His big combat schtick is knowing and targetting his opponents vulnerabilites and, of the big five DC heroes, he's got more followers than anyone else.
I really dont get the people who call batman a bard. He doesnt cast spells or have anything related to the kind of charm and illusion spells the bard is good at. He also doesnt perform. So where is the bard part? Skills and knowledge can be gotten from other classes, like say... the ninja or rogue.
Every time i see bard recommended I wonder if there is some comic out there I missed where batman goes around with a lute.
Batman is not only the most intimidating hero in the DCuniverse, he's also a master detective with the skills to go deep undercover in a city full of criminal lunatics to solve crimes. I have no idea why you don't think he has a Bard's charm. As for performing, he steers his combats with an eye towards maximizing psychological warfare. Dirge of Doom reminds me of the first time Batman makes a major appearance in the first Batman movie.
As for spells, they are a fantasy world's analog to technology.
I dont dispute batmans charm as in his personality, what I am saying is that the makeup of a bards spells do not associate well with batmans technology, a wizards do. Much of the bards list is enchantment and illusion spells, which some of batman's enemies employ, but batman doesnt. He has utilitarion technology. Fly/Jump (grappline hooks or batplane), or diviniation spells (the techonology he uses in investigation) fit well, and they are on the wizard list, not the bards.
And as for psychological warfare he definately employs it, but not in form of a performance, but instead in the form of actual intimidation. The dazzling display type feats would be far more appropriate then the bards performance ability with the way batman plays off his image as a terror in the night.
A ninja cross classed with a wizard is a far better fit then a bard.
In a different system, probably hero system, he would cost around 1,000 points. He's simply too superhuman to properly be built, the man can lift a ton, giving him a 32-33 strength, this is unenhanced strength, and he is definitely not a barbarian.....except socially speaking.
The man is literally impossible to build without point buy, unless you make him level 60 or so, and then he would have too many hp. Even without dipping into Batgod territory, he's still too capable, while being relatively fragile.
850 pts using Champions.Alright here's what i wanna know, How would YOU build BATMAN
Using VPPs for skills, equipment, and vehicles I see.
Batman is very hard to build, he would need to be a multi-gestalt character, too many abilities and too many skills...
Have you ever seen the first Batman movie? He had people terrified of him in battle long before they ever saw him. Please explain how that's like Dazzling Display.
His most defining characteristic is his mind games - which maps to enchantment and illusion.
Personally it wouldnt matter, because my image of batman is more influenced from the comics and maybe even some of the cartoons, but not that first wave of films. And here in lies the impossibility of stating batman, WHICH batman.
But even so, psychological warfare is a long term effect. Illusions and enchantments are short term. The only reason I suggest dazzling display or just plain intimidate, is because the SHAKEN condition is probably a good representation of the thugs 'shaking in their boots' at the mere thought of batman, where as charm and compulsion usually have more direct effects then simple demoralization.
To that end I think the inquisitor is a better representation of the batman you are invisioning. Stern Gaze, Monster lore, he knows his enemies and he intimidates them. And he even has a halfway descent selection of utility spells to represent technology.
I cannot believe that it took me over 30 years and the Batman Begins movie to realize that Batman is the epitome of what being a Ninja means.
There are better, more capable, ninjas out there. Ninjas who don't need teamwork drilled into their skulls using the most modern mining techniques.
Most of the major events of the last decade have been almost exclusively about Batman learning teamwork. No Man's Land was Batman learning that he can't handle the city by himself. Bruce Wayne: Fugitive, was about him learning to treat his adoptive family better, and to trust them. He only started understanding all of the aspects of teamwork after he was "killed" by Darkseid and came back.
Batman is also singularly inept at social situations, which is a very important part of being a ninja. His adoptive daughter, who didn't have words for most of her life, is better at socializing than he is, she also treats people better.
But of course.850 pts using Champions.Using VPPs for skills, equipment, and vehicles I see.
I only use it for his gadgets and some of his skills. I like his vehicles to be fairly static, so they are in a MP.
Detective Rogue/Alchemist, definitely. Maybe Lawful Neutral.
Ninja with the unarmed ninja talents, a high intelligence, and a boatload of knowledge skills and craft alchemy.
As a default alignment I would say LG and remember just because you're good doesn't mean you're nice.
I laughed at the thought of Batman with a high Cha stat. While I don't disagree with the many good arguments for Bard, I would say he gets a special feat that let's him use any other stat in place of Cha for (social) skill checks. Int and Wis would certainly be very high. Look at how he handles Hal, Booster, Barry, Wally, and Ollie.
Also, consider how many times Bats has been duped by a pretty face. Many failed Sense Motive checks there. Jezebel Jet, just to name the most significant of the most recent.
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Batman can fake a relationship.
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything I was saying, but I suppose you are right.
The point is that he's apathetic, not inept.Batman can fake a relationship.I'm not sure what this has to do with anything I was saying, but I suppose you are right.
No, he's pretty inept. He doesn't exactly have his city under his thumb. He could put surveillance equipment in every building that guys like Joker, Mr. Freeze, or Scarecrow would use, but he hasn't. He let's himself get ambushed on a semi-regular basis. He's treats his friends and adoptive family like crap. Bruce Wayne can fake behavior for awhile, but then he falls back on his normal ways of being a total jerk.
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I really dont get the people who call batman a bard. He doesnt cast spells or have anything related to the kind of charm and illusion spells the bard is good at. He also doesnt perform. So where is the bard part?
Adam West.
Several things to address.
You can't build every batman, but you can build a fun to play batman style character at level ten. How can you build superman with all 18's? That seems like threadcrapping. Supes is obviously way over eighteen in at least str and con.
Here is charisma:
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
Batman has maybe the strongest personality, everyone is attracted to him. Sure, he treats people like crap, but everyone wants to please him, even people who hate his guts, even half of his enemies love him so much they just want him to pay attention to him. Like captain America, gods follow his orders. Appearance, Bruce is a hunk.
I design a lot of characters using pathfinder, and it is fun. They are even often playable. Batman can be a ninja, rogue, ranger, or bard. Of a combo of these classes.
All that aside, it can be nice to build him as a debuffer. In some representation, his best ability is to plan so well as to make your powers useless.
I'd say a Gestalt Monk (Martial Artist Archetype) / Inquisitor. As for the utility belt...that's a bit trickier.
Batman is extremely intelligent and one of the best martial artists in the DC Universe. He's not magical, so all the magic classes are out. So Rogue is the only thing that's left that makes sense and the Investigator Archetype fits well. Intelligence would be his highest stat.
*Ponders about magic items* He'd have to have a Rope of Climbing and a Rope of Entanglement. Cloak of the Bat of course, and maybe a Ring of Feather Falling? And maybe Throwing / Returning daggers for the Batarangs.
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Superman is a level 5 with the Kryptonian Under a Yellow Sun template. How much +LA that template is worth is up to you...it's a lot.
Batman is an E6 character. I'd probably use Ranger, with FE: Human. Then just keep adding on feats and feats. Add enough Skill Focuses adn Skill Affinities and Skill Training and Skill Learnings, tack on the +20 competence items, and yeah, his skill mods are going to be incredible.
Base stats all 18? Sounds right. He's been described as close to the ultimate human...only Lex Luthor is considered smarter in the DCU. He's fast, tough, and strong. He IS very charismatic, and he's extremely charming and a great leader when he wants to be. If he has a blindside for women, well, every hero needs a weak point. He's mastered dozens of fighting styles, sciences, and he's got basically unlimited wealth, so he can have all the top magical gear without any problem. Batman's gear sets the curve for Terran tech in the DCU.
His highest stat is definitely Int...there are normal humans stronger then he is. Still, he's in Olympian condition, so he's probably bought Inherent bonuses of +5 to all stats to get his scores to 23, with a 26 Int. Luthor probably sits at a 28, but is a pure expert with more Knowledge based feats.
As for alignment, he's got a code of honor, and he's definitely on the side of the angels. Chaotic Good is Green Arrow...Batman is much too disciplined to be Chaotic. That leaves neutral or lawful good, and LG is Superman. Kinda puts Batman right in the middle...willing to work solo or team as needed, bend or uphold the law as required. I'd tag him NG with lawful leanings because of his unflinching discipline, but YMMV.
==Aelryinth
To be fair, in the future, he does put surveillance cameras everywhere... and bat robots described as cars parked all over the place, too. It's when he's too old to go out on patrol, and has others do his fighting for him!
==Aelryinth