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Beginner Box errata / corrections / questions


Beginner Box

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Osirion

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hi folks,

Haven't seen a thread like this, so I thought I'd start one.

First of all, let me list all the "Corrections" printed in the more-recently released Beginner Box Player Pack and Beginner Box GM Kit.

Beginner Box Player Pack wrote:

Open your Hero’s Handbook and turn to page 19. If the cleric’s cause fear spell says “Hit Dice,” change “Hit Dice” to “CR 4 or higher.” Do the same thing for the wizard’s cause fear spell on page 29.

Turn to page 22. If the fighter’s Will save says “+2,” change it to “+0.”
Turn to page 25. If the 4th-level rogue’s Will save says “Add +1,” change it to “no change.”
Turn to page 29. If the wizard’s sleep spell says “Hit Dice,” change “Hit Dice” to “character levels or CR 3.”
Beginner Box GM Kit wrote:

Open your Game Master’s Guide and turn to page 63. If the black dragon’s second Melee line says “full-round action,” change it to “standard and move action.”

Turn to page 76. If the Initiative for the ogre says +9, change it to –1.
Turn to page 82. If the line after the werewolf’s Feats line says “Spells,” change that to “Skills.”
Turn to page 83. If the wolf’s hit points are “37,” change that to “13,” and change its saving throws to “Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1.”


I think Valeros the fighter Pregen's attack with the longsword needs to be +5 instead of +4.

+3 Strength
+1 Base Attack
+1 Weapon Focus


FTracer wrote:

I think Valeros the fighter Pregen's attack with the longsword needs to be +5 instead of +4.

+3 Strength
+1 Base Attack
+1 Weapon Focus

That's the way I played him.

Osirion

In the 'Terrors' run I believe, a Knowledge (Local) roll was required but none of the pregens had it. I see this as an oversight in module/pregen design more than an error. We had the Rogue swap a rank to have it as it made the most sense.


fjw70 wrote:
FTracer wrote:

I think Valeros the fighter Pregen's attack with the longsword needs to be +5 instead of +4.

+3 Strength
+1 Base Attack
+1 Weapon Focus

That's the way I played him.

His longsword and regular melee attacks both say +4 in sections G & H. The feat states "You have a +1 bonus built into your longsword attack bonus." Since Improved Initiative is factored into his initiative then I figured the longsword attack would be factored in.

Grand Lodge

Is his power attack bonus properly calculated?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

And his Hit Points?

Also the Deadeye Amulet in GM Kit talks about True Strike, which firstly I can't seem to find anywhere and from what Google can't tell me is a Cleric, not a Wizard thing under full rules.

Will the pdfs be updated at some point? Would be cool :)

Qadira

I don't know if it was intended to be designed that way, but the cleric pregen really doesn't need improved initiative. I think Kyra would be better served by selective channel. Also, the only pregen who doesn't have improved initiative is the rogue, who probably needs it more than anyone.


Helaman wrote:
Is his power attack bonus properly calculated?

His Power Attack should be a +4.

His Hit Points should be 11. It may have been a carry over from Favored Class in the Core system or his perhaps his Constitution was higher at some point.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The evil cleric in the GM book should have a +3 to hit with has melee weapon instead of a +5. I rolled and said he hit and the players did some quick math and said he has a what + to hit, as it seemed high. We did some quick math and realized it was wrong. Had some fun with the look on the clerics face as he thinks he should hit but didn't. :)


Interesting. I only have the pdf (downloaded on the first day, while the box is in mail) but my evil cleric is +3 not +5. You're refering to printed version?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ghostwriter wrote:
Interesting. I only have the pdf (downloaded on the first day, while the box is in mail) but my evil cleric is +3 not +5. You're refering to printed version?

Yes in the printed version.


Guess they caught it in time before putting up the pdf. But it should definitely be added to the errata. I was curious why all the corrections start with "If". It seems there are already differences between print and pdf, and between both of them and the "intended and correct" version :)

Contributor

Pregen Valeros's hp should be 11, not 12.

Pregen Valeros's longsword attack bonus should be +5 (the prototype pregen character sheet had a different layout with multiple weapon entries with/without Power Attack, and it looks like the Power Attack attack bonus was used on the final pregen for his normal attack bonus).

Pregen Valeros's longsword attack bonus with Power Attack should be +4.

Deadeye amulet does refer to true strike, which was cut from the Player Kit due to space reasons. I'll make sure the amulet's description is rewritten to explain the ability. (As to whether it's a cleric or wizard thing, it's actually a ranger thing. :))

I don't really want to get into a discussion about the design decisions behind the pregens, but for Kyra having Improved Initiative, (1) there's no space on her sheet to explain an ability like Selective Channel, (2) for a pregen, it's much easier for a new player to deal with a constant, built-in flat bonus to a number on the character sheet than to juggle yet another ability that requires decision making, and (3) when your DEX is –1, it's nice to have that +4 from Imp Init so you have a chance to not be last in combat. Anyway, it's not an error.

Evil cleric, my printed version says his melee attack is +3, which is correct, and his ranged attack is +5, which is correct. Perhaps you were reading the wrong line?

Grand Lodge

Sean - hoping you don't get pissed at me but editing is letting you guys down time and time again when you rush to get products out... in all the play testing Paizo did, was the math never caught?

BIG fan of Paizo, BIG fan of the products... often disappointed by Paizo's editing and checking? Yes and more so recently - previously it seemed that the quality of editing was higher. That could just be my take on your earlier products but if I was gonna ask Paizo to invest in one thing, it would be taking more time on your products to make sure they are 'clean' when they head to the printers - and if you can't invest time? Invest in a larger editing/checking team.

Contributor

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Nobody who doesn't work for a publisher really understands the process well enough or the timelines involved to place the blame on any one department or group of people.

Trust me, the editors aren't the problem. I think we have the best editing team in the business. The problem is that errors happen and surprise deadlines happen.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Trust me, the editors aren't the problem. I think we have the best editing team in the business. The problem is that errors happen and surprise deadlines happen.

Sean, what you say is very true. There are many complex factors in business which affect products. However, perhaps the scheduling timeline is getting impacted by the volume of projects thus allowing errors in Paizo products to become a more regular occurance.

Speaking purely for myself, I would prefer fewer, cleaner end products rather than a wider selection of products.

Grand Lodge

Stynkk wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Trust me, the editors aren't the problem. I think we have the best editing team in the business. The problem is that errors happen and surprise deadlines happen.

Sean, what you say is very true. There are many complex factors in business which affect products. However, perhaps the scheduling timeline is getting impacted by the volume of projects thus allowing errors in Paizo products to become a more regular occurance.

Speaking purely for myself, I would prefer fewer, cleaner end products rather than a wider selection of products.

I get that Sean, not in publication (without sarcasm I don't count the time doing newspaper advertisement sales and writing or the business mag I did articles for - both freelance, as it was years ago and for the Chinese market, and yes, errors happened there :) ), so I can't comment on it being the editing team or not but somethings happened to Paizo's quality of the last year - I'm not the only guy to say it either.

The machine must be fed so that bills can be paid etc but if the momentum is causing the business to trip over its own feet that's an issue that is worth looking at.

Poor quality can cost you sales if it becomes endemic and damages the brand reputation. I think Paizo is a ways off that happening but for whatever its worth, maybe its worth looking at things differently.

Contributor

I don't consider the minor errors in the Beginner Box to be a mark of "poor quality" or a company "tripping over its feet."

As for the errors in Ultimate Magic, I'm not happy about those, but the impression of their impact on the book and the game has been blown out of proportion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ghostwriter wrote:
Guess they caught it in time before putting up the pdf. But it should definitely be added to the errata. I was curious why all the corrections start with "If". It seems there are already differences between print and pdf, and between both of them and the "intended and correct" version :)

I assume they also wrote the errata with the expectation that the Beginner's Box will have a second print run. ;)

You can't really blame the editorial staff too much when almost of the errors were caught by the editors before the product reached market. It is a shame they weren't caught before they went to print, but print deadlines are like that. If you wait for the book to be 100% error free before printing, you will never release a product.


Ah, but I absolutely understand it :) I think the BB is a great quality product and I'll be happy to buy the 2nd printing as well. I was simply speculating. And my actual box is still in mail, so I can't wait! I don't really care about minor things like that. I do like the new hyperlinked pdfs very much on the other hand :)

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
As for the errors in Ultimate Magic, I'm not happy about those, but the impression of their impact on the book and the game has been blown out of proportion.

Other then Adventurer's Armory, I think errors in your books and their impact have all been blown out of proportion.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
As for the errors in Ultimate Magic, I'm not happy about those, but the impression of their impact on the book and the game has been blown out of proportion.

I feel that the recent errors are not detrimental to the game of Pathfinder, but they really bog down the fun. I constantly have to ask Rules questions on the Forums or check product FAQs because an ability, feature, feat or new rule is ambiguous, unclear or in some cases unusable.

Again, speaking for myself, this makes me less confident in buying brand new Paizo products as they are released because I *know* there will be a number of corrections and/or updates to the product coming in the first few months.

Finally, some of the updates come into direct conflict with older supplements which causes more problems for the players of your game system because the conflicts are not addressed beforehand.

This is a shame because I truly enjoy Paizo products, but I feel usability has been suffering.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

The only thing that changed at Paizo in the recent years is that they began to actually put out books with numbers (as opposed to crunchless pre-PFRPG era products) that are player-orientated (and the amount of OCD players who are going to cry havoc over a +1 instead of +2 is approx. 4x higher than GMs who won't even notice a statblock typo in an adventure).

RPGs books have errors. It's how it works. WotC, with it's budget and resources has books that are full of tiny mistakes (take any 3.5 Monster Manual and find an error-less statblock, good luck. Or take a look at 4E errata). Paizo has a budget that's <---> smaller. Go figure.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
... the amount of OCD players who are going to cry havoc over a +1 instead of +2 is approx. 4x higher than GMs who won't even notice a statblock typo in an adventure.

Gorbacz, you're a cool guy, and you often have a good point. But, hey, the whole point of the Beginner Box is to teach the game. There's supposed to be a reason that a bonus is +2 instead of +1, and the reader is supposed to understand the calculations that get you there. This isn't the statblock of an NPC who lasts two rounds in Combat #27. Slamming people as mentally ill if they notice that kind of a right-up-front error isn't cool.

Looking forward to better posts from you.


Chris Mortika wrote:
The whole point of the Beginner Box is to teach the game. There's supposed to be a reason that a bonus is +2 instead of +1, and the reader is supposed to understand the calculations that get you there.

Agreed. A beginner's introductory product should be the most error free, tested, as well as the easiest to use of all the Pathfinder products available.

Grand Lodge

It sure as heck confused the Valorous player in my Bash event.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

I'm not saying what should be or what's the ideal world like. All I say is that beginner sets, even those made by much bigger companies, will have errors.

Cheliax

Dragnmoon wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
As for the errors in Ultimate Magic, I'm not happy about those, but the impression of their impact on the book and the game has been blown out of proportion.
Other then Adventurer's Armory, I think errors in your books and their impact have all been blown out of proportion.

Hmm, I have Adventurer's Armory (1st pr.) but I've never realized that it contains a lot of errors. Then again, I don't really pay that much attention to numbers, so I may have missed them.

At the same time I realize people are frustrated; you buy the box so you could teach your kids to play, but there are errors in the books or character sheets (and kids may be more bothered by any math errors than we adults are). My impression is that stuff gets shifted around so much that even though every stat block had been triple-checked and error free at some point, there might be last minute changes as special abilities, feats and stats are tweaked (or monster X might even be changed from CR 6 to CR 4). Anyway, although I don't have the box yet, as far as I've heard, it's not as bad as the new 4E Red Box was.

EDIT: Ninja'd by a Bag of Devouring... humiliating! ;P

Grand Lodge

Valeros's stats confused me a bit while creating my son's dwarf fighter and making comparisons to Valeros. Can someone confirm I got this right?

Level 1 dwarf fighter, STR +2, Weapon Focus Greataxe, Power Attack.
Attack bonus (with Power Attack): +3 (+1 AB, +1 WF, +2 STR, -1 PA)
Damage (with Power Attack): 1d12 +5 (+2 STR, +3 PA)

Attack bonus (without Power Attack): +4 (+1 AB, +1 WF, +2 STR)
Damage (without Power Attack): 1d12+2 (+2 STR)

I'm not sure how Valeros got 1d8+4, since I think he would be 1d8+3 without PA and 1d8+5 with PA. Am I missing anything on damage?

Grand Lodge

Should Merisiel have a +8 total for Disable Device due to Trapfinding? Is that a class bonus you would normally include in the Misc. Mod column in the skill list?

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Chris Mortika wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
... the amount of OCD players who are going to cry havoc over a +1 instead of +2 is approx. 4x higher than GMs who won't even notice a statblock typo in an adventure.

Gorbacz, you're a cool guy, and you often have a good point. But, hey, the whole point of the Beginner Box is to teach the game. There's supposed to be a reason that a bonus is +2 instead of +1, and the reader is supposed to understand the calculations that get you there. This isn't the statblock of an NPC who lasts two rounds in Combat #27. Slamming people as mentally ill if they notice that kind of a right-up-front error isn't cool.

Looking forward to better posts from you.

My impression his comment isn't about pointing out errors, it's about the minority of posters who have blown the 'increasing problem' of Paizo's editing way out of proportion. I don't have any documentation proving things one way or the other, but looking at Rise of the Runelords I think it's safe to say Paizo's errors per thousand words is down, and the number of errors in the Basic set compared to the core book is I believe a LOT lower.

Errors are going to happen. They can and should be minimized, but the problem does not have a huge game impact, nor is it increasing, which is the suggestion Gorbacz was replying to. Ultimate Magic is arguably the worst offender and it is playable and overall I think it's a great quality book and as a percentage, highly playable.

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Narl wrote:
Should Merisiel have a +8 total for Disable Device due to Trapfinding? Is that a class bonus you would normally include in the Misc. Mod column in the skill list?

The Trapfinding ability only applies to a subset of things you do with Disable Device so it's likely not included in the main skill listing.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I don't know if this would fall under "correction" at all, but to heck with it...

In a future print run, it would be helpful to include in the Cleric "level up" sections that the DC to resist their Channel Energy increases at Level 2 and Level 4.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

P. 31... under "5th level Wizard"

If your Intelligence ability score is 16 or higher, you can prepare an extra 2nd-level wizard spell each day!

It should say 3rd-level

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Narl wrote:

Valeros's stats confused me a bit while creating my son's dwarf fighter and making comparisons to Valeros. Can someone confirm I got this right?

Level 1 dwarf fighter, STR +2, Weapon Focus Greataxe, Power Attack.
Attack bonus (with Power Attack): +3 (+1 AB, +1 WF, +2 STR, -1 PA)
Damage (with Power Attack): 1d12 +5 (+2 STR, +3 PA)

Attack bonus (without Power Attack): +4 (+1 AB, +1 WF, +2 STR)
Damage (without Power Attack): 1d12+2 (+2 STR)

I'm not sure how Valeros got 1d8+4, since I think he would be 1d8+3 without PA and 1d8+5 with PA. Am I missing anything on damage?

When using a weapon in two hands, the character gets 1 1/2 times their strengh bonus to damage (not attack). If your dwarf has a 14 or 15 strength, he should get 1d12+3 damage with a greataxe.

I don't have my beginner box handy, but I think Valeros has a 16 strength: He does 1d8 + 3 when using his longsword in one hand, and 1d8+4 when using it with both hands. (1 1/2 damage would be 4.5, but we round fractions down.)

Grand Lodge

Ross Byers wrote:
When using a weapon in two hands, the character gets 1 1/2 times their strengh bonus to damage (not attack). If your dwarf has a 14 or 15 strength, he should get 1d12+3 damage with a greataxe.

Thanks, I figured I had missed something!

Grand Lodge

Dennis Baker wrote:
The Trapfinding ability only applies to a subset of things you do with Disable Device so it's likely not included in the main skill listing.

Thanks, now that I read the skill description again that is clear.


I notice that, at 4th level, that the Rogue gains the Uncanny Dodge ability. The BB says this means that enemies can't flank you. But isn't that the Improved Uncanny Dodge ability? Uncanny Dodge In the CRB means you can't be caught flat-footed.

Perhaps this was intentional to simplify things??

Contributor

The Rot Grub wrote:
Perhaps this was intentional to simplify things??

Yes.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
The Rot Grub wrote:
Perhaps this was intentional to simplify things??
Yes.

Is this a planned future change to Uncanny Dodge in general? :)

Contributor

Stynkk wrote:
Is this a planned future change to Uncanny Dodge in general? :)

No.

Andoran

OK, total amateur here just trying to figure out the character creation steps. I find I'm getting a bit tripped up by attack and damage modifiers. Narl's questions above is a good example of how complex this appears to a first-timer.
So I have a cleric and using Kyra as a go by. I can not figure out why she has a +1 to damage with the sling. STR only gets added to melee damage, yes?
Also on cleric. I haven't seen it explicitly stated but I assume clerics and wizards need a free hand for spell casting? Therefore a shield or (2 handed) crossbow are not recommended.. But how do i know if the spell is spoken or with a hand gesture? Cleric must possess holy symbol, but not hold... OK. I guess my main question, can my cleric equip a shield and sword and cast spells? Or use crossbow and cast spells, without spending free action to drop crossbow...

Contributor

Mr. Gerbik wrote:

OK, total amateur here just trying to figure out the character creation steps. I find I'm getting a bit tripped up by attack and damage modifiers. Narl's questions above is a good example of how complex this appears to a first-timer.

So I have a cleric and using Kyra as a go by. I can not figure out why she has a +1 to damage with the sling. STR only gets added to melee damage, yes?

Hero's Handbook page 59, Damage section, says you apply your STR to melee weapon damage, thrown weapon damage, and sling damage.

Mr. Gerbik wrote:
Also on cleric. I haven't seen it explicitly stated but I assume clerics and wizards need a free hand for spell casting? Therefore a shield or (2 handed) crossbow are not recommended.. But how do i know if the spell is spoken or with a hand gesture? Cleric must possess holy symbol, but not hold... OK. I guess my main question, can my cleric equip a shield and sword and cast spells? Or use crossbow and cast spells, without spending free action to drop crossbow...

See page 61 under Casting Spells--it's all right there. :)

Andoran

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Hero's Handbook page 59, Damage section, says you apply your STR to melee weapon damage, thrown weapon damage, and sling damage.

See page 61 under Casting Spells--it's all right there. :)

Ah yes, thank you! I was misinterpreting page 61, thinking it was an either or situation (spoken, or hand gesture). But I got it now, thanks.


My comments :

1) TOUGHNESS : don't think that the fighter gain this ability for free at level 2 (it does not say that in fighter description), so the comment in the feat description should be deleted I guess.

2) PRECISE SHOT : prerequisite is not "Able to use a crossbow" but "POINT-BLANK SHOT" I guess.

3) STARKNIFE : should be in "Thrown" weapons group (fighter description).

4) SLING: should be in "Thrown" weapons group (fighter description).

5) DAGGER : should be in "Thrown" weapons group (fighter description).

6) WEAPON GROUP : should indicate that bonus do not stack in case a weapon is in various groups (like 'light hammer').

7) ARMOUR : should indicate what happen in case of Armor without Proficiency. I guess it's simply forbidden.

I would appreciate if someone can validate theses comments.

Thanks.

Contributor

blueace wrote:
1) TOUGHNESS : don't think that the fighter gain this ability for free at level 2 (it does not say that in fighter description), so the comment in the feat description should be deleted I guess.

You are correct. An earlier version of the rules gave the 2nd-level fighter Toughness instead of a choice of a combat feat. It'll be corrected.

blueace wrote:
2) PRECISE SHOT : prerequisite is not "Able to use a crossbow" but "POINT-BLANK SHOT" I guess.

You are correct.

blueace wrote:

3) STARKNIFE : should be in "Thrown" weapons group (fighter description).

4) SLING: should be in "Thrown" weapons group (fighter description).
5) DAGGER : should be in "Thrown" weapons group (fighter description).

Correct on all counts. I think updating the header to say this list is just examples of the category would cover this.

blueace wrote:
6) WEAPON GROUP : should indicate that bonus do not stack in case a weapon is in various groups (like 'light hammer').

Nothing in the text says that a weapon in multiple groups gives multiple bonuses. "Pick a group. You get a +1 with that group" is pretty straightforward, whether the weapon is in multiple groups shouldn't matter.

blueace wrote:
7) ARMOUR : should indicate what happen in case of Armor without Proficiency. I guess it's simply forbidden.

Correct, in the Beginner Box you can't use armor unless your class says you're proficient in it.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I think updating the header to say this list is just examples of the category would cover this.

I agree.

By the way, I think you will not escape to specify arcane schools for the wizard spell.

In the first book, you specify which spells are forbidden for specialist wizard. But when like in your web enhancement you add new spells, beginner should be lost.

I suggest you just to add the school for wizard spells and in the wizard description just say :
EVOCATION : conjuration and illusion spells forbidden
ILLUSION : transmutation and necromancy spells forbidden
CONJURATION : enchantement and illusion spells forbidden

Thanks for your previous answers.


I appreciate the help provided in this thread. I couldn't figure out why the pregens had higher HPs, than the standard for first level. I assumed that the Con bonus was added, but didn't see it in the rules. The incorrect HPs for the pregen fighter confused me further.


HammerFall wrote:
I assumed that the Con bonus was added, but didn't see it in the rules.

page 32, Finishing touches, step 2 : "Add your CON Mod to your hit points".

And page 63, step 2 again : "Increase your hit points by the amount in your class level-up bar for your new class level. For example, if your level-up bar says 1d10+CON, roll 1d10 and add that roll and your CON Mod to your maximum hit points."

;)

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