I think it is a bit broken.
The Mixed (pending a better name)
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills
The mixed can choose any 15 skills to be class skills.
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Level____BaB_______________Fort_____Ref______Will____Special
1st______+1________________+2_______+2_______+0______trapfinding, favored enemy,
2nd______+2________________+3_______+3_______+0______Evasion, Weapon training 1,
3rd______+3________________+3_______+3_______+1______trap sense +1,
4th______+4________________+4_______+4_______+1______uncanny dodge, Armor training 1,
5th______+5________________+4_______+4_______+1______Fast Stealth,
6th______+6/+1_____________+5_______+5_______+2______trap sense +2,
7th______+7/+2_____________+5_______+5_______+2______
8th______+8/+3_____________+6_______+6_______+2______Improved uncanny dodge, Armor training 2,
9th______+9/+4_____________+6_______+6_______+3______trap sense +3,
10th_____+10/+5____________+7_______+7_______+3______Improved Evasion,
11th_____+11/+6/+1_________+7_______+7_______+3______
12th_____+12/+7/+2_________+8_______+8_______+4______Camouflage, Armor training 3
13th_____+13/+8/+3_________+8_______+8_______+4______trap sense +4,
14th_____+14/+9/+4_________+9_______+9_______+4______Skill Mastery,
15th_____+15/+10/+5________+9_______+9_______+5______
16th_____+16/+11/+6/+1_____+10______+10______+5______Armor training 4, trap sense +5,
17th_____+17/+12/+7/+2_____+10______+10______+5______Hide in plain sight,
18th_____+18/+13/+8/+3_____+11______+11______+6______
19th_____+19/+14/+9/+4_____+11______+11______+6______trap sense +6,
20th_____+20/+15/+10/+5____+12______+12______+6______Armor Mastery or Weapon Mastery
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the mixed.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A mixed is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
Etc...
some advises?
It has no abilities to help it deal damage not even situationally like rangers and rogues do.
Before making a class you should figure out what you want it to be able to do.
Without a goal it is hard to provide direction. I am not saying you don't have a goal, but you have not written one out.
By goal I don't mean combine 3 classes. I mean how good should it be in combat? How good should it be with skills? What type of skills is it expected to have?
It has no abilities to help it deal damage not even situationally like rangers and rogues do.
Before making a class you should figure out what you want it to be able to do.
Without a goal it is hard to provide direction. I am not saying you don't have a goal, but you have not written one out.By goal I don't mean combine 3 classes. I mean how good should it be in combat? How good should it be with skills? What type of skills is it expected to have?
Kinda trying to make a "Jack of all trades" character, based a little on stealth, it also have 1 Favored Enemy and one Weapon Training, I could add more but I think it would be unbalanced (Trying not to be a munchkin).
Kinda trying to make a "Jack of all trades" character, based a little on stealth, it also have 1 Favored Enemy and one Weapon Training, I could add more but I think it would be unbalanced (Trying not to be a munchkin).
The general problem with this approach is that if you have only a modicum of power at a number of things you'll not be exceptional at any of them, and Pathfinder in general assumes that each character will have a niche. What you've made has a greater variety of abilities than a fighter or rogue, yes, but it also isn't nearly as good at fighting as a fighter nor at roguery as a rogue. Fighters, rogues, and rangers will outshine it consistently -- which isn't much fun for the player, usually. Of course these aren't hard and fast rules, but it's a good general guideline.
If you want to make a jack-of-all-trades class, I think it's fine to sample a little from a variety of extant classes, but you should also create unique abilities which unify those sampled elements and somehow work toward a "goal" as wraithstrike called it.
The general problem with this approach is that if you have only a modicum of power at a number of things you'll not be exceptional at any of them, and Pathfinder in general assumes that each character will have a niche. What you've made has a greater variety of abilities than a fighter or rogue, yes, but it also isn't nearly as good at fighting as a fighter nor at roguery as a rogue. Fighters, rogues, and rangers will outshine it consistently -- which isn't much fun for the player, usually. Of course these aren't hard and fast rules, but it's a good general guideline.If you want to make a jack-of-all-trades class, I think it's fine to sample a little from a variety of extant classes, but you should also create unique abilities which unify those sampled elements and somehow work toward a "goal" as wraithstrike called it.
Well, It's my first try, but yeah, I need a "goal", aside for having fun.
Yeah, Void, I was just trying to further illuminate the problem wraithstrike was describing. Good luck as you continue to work on this =)
Well, I have to ask. Do you REALLY want favored enemy? There are attributes of the ranger class I really like, but FE isn't one of them. It's cool to have when you need it (or in a campaign focused around those enemy types) but it's a bit too situational for my tastes.
Here's a thought.
Trapfinding: (This class feature shouldn't exist. Anybody should be able to find magical traps at a high enough roll, you can throw this on without affecting balance in any real meaningful way.)
Sneak Attack: level 1 and every 3 levels thereafter.
Bonus Feats: Level 2 and every 3 levels thereafter.
Weapon Training: Level 3 and every 3 levels thereafter
Level 4: Gain Ranger Spellcasting (or some archtype alternative.)
Level 5: Choose a Ranger combat style. The bonus feats granted at levels 5, 11, and 17 come from this combat style and can ignore prerequisites.If you're concerned about the +1BAB sneak attack dip you can swap Sneak Attack with the Bonus Feats (This will also mean shuffling the level 5 note down to level 4)
Might change Favorite Enemy for Weapon training, already have Trapfinding, don't want Sneak Attack, not sure about spellcasting, maybe combat style...
So far based on the Original concept
"
Male human "Mixed" 1
CG Medium humanoid
Init +6 ; Senses Perception +6
==DEFENSE==
AC 14, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +2 dex)
hp 15 (1d10+5)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +2
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft./x4
Melee Greatsword +3 2d6+3 19-20/x2
Melee Dagger, melee +3 1d4+2 19-20/x2
Ranged Longbow, composite +3 1d8 20/x3
Special Attacks Favored Enemy (humanoid(reptilian))
==STATISTICS==
Str 15, Dex 15, Con 14,
Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 14
Base Atk +1, Cmb +3Cmd +15
Feats Armor Proficiency (Light) (PFCR 118), Armor
Proficiency (Medium) (PFCR 118), Improved Initiative (PFCR 127)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Climb +6, Disable Device +6, Linguistics +6,
Perception +6, Perform (stringed instruments) +6, Sense Motive +6,
Stealth +6, Survival +6, Swim +6
Languages Chelaxian, Common, Elven, Varisian
SQ Trapfinding
Combat Gear Greatsword, Longbow (composite), Dagger, Leather
Other Gear arrows (20), Backpack, Bedroll, Candle, Fishhook, Flint and steel,
Ink, Inkpen, Belt pouch, Trail Rations (6), Soap, Waterskin, Thieves' tools, Book,
Tindertwig (6), Antitoxin, Traveler's outfit, Musical instrument (common)
If using the Rich Parent trait, make the Greatsword Masterwork and make the C Longbow +2 strength, maybe some other gears too.
Part of my character concept is making him Mute, but...
Kinda trying to make a "Jack of all trades" character, based a little on stealth, it also have 1 Favored Enemy and one Weapon Training, I could add more but I think it would be unbalanced (Trying not to be a munchkin).It has no abilities to help it deal damage not even situationally like rangers and rogues do.
Before making a class you should figure out what you want it to be able to do.
Without a goal it is hard to provide direction. I am not saying you don't have a goal, but you have not written one out.By goal I don't mean combine 3 classes. I mean how good should it be in combat? How good should it be with skills? What type of skills is it expected to have?
The ranger is pretty good at that now. I would make a ranger archetype instead. Trade out 1 or 2 favored enemy slots for more skills.
The ranger is pretty good at that now. I would make a ranger archetype instead. Trade out 1 or 2 favored enemy slots for more skills.
Might, would still like Trapfinding, and change spellcasting for spell-like abilities (there are also quite a few skills I want but that aren't class skills)
Kinda trying to make a "Jack of all trades" character, based a little on stealth, it also have 1 Favored Enemy and one Weapon Training, I could add more but I think it would be unbalanced (Trying not to be a munchkin).The general problem with this approach is that if you have only a modicum of power at a number of things you'll not be exceptional at any of them, and Pathfinder in general assumes that each character will have a niche. What you've made has a greater variety of abilities than a fighter or rogue, yes, but it also isn't nearly as good at fighting as a fighter nor at roguery as a rogue. Fighters, rogues, and rangers will outshine it consistently -- which isn't much fun for the player, usually. Of course these aren't hard and fast rules, but it's a good general guideline.
If you want to make a jack-of-all-trades class, I think it's fine to sample a little from a variety of extant classes, but you should also create unique abilities which unify those sampled elements and somehow work toward a "goal" as wraithstrike called it.
You mean as bardy as a rogue? :-)
My take :
Take ranger. Drop spells. Replace with weapon training that increases every 6 levels after 5th. Weapon Training must be in the weapon style. GM decides what that means, if unclear. Just the numeric bonus increases, you only get 1 weapon type (which must be related to your weapon style!) At 3rd level, replace Endurance with the Rogue Talent ability. Grant one rogue talent. Every 3 levels thereafter, grant another.
Drop Hunter's Bond. Replace with trapfinding as a rogue.
Optionally replace favored enemy with guides focus.
Take your core rulebook and cross out the rogue entry. Replace it with this class I came up with.
It's name is FrankenJackOfAllTrades.
The ranger is pretty good at that now. I would make a ranger archetype instead. Trade out 1 or 2 favored enemy slots for more skills.Might, would still like Trapfinding, and change spellcasting for spell-like abilities (there are also quite a few skills I want but that aren't class skills)
Sorry I was not clear. I was saying trade in 1 or 2 favored enemy slots for new class skills.
For a more indepth suggestion:
You can drop track and/or wild empathy to get trapfinding
Choose 3 or 4 more skill from the rogue list as class skill.
In return he only gets 3 favored enemies at levels 5, 10, and 15.
I would not give him 8 skill point because then why play a rogue, but if you do then he should lose the animal companion also.
Kinda trying to make a "Jack of all trades" character, based a little on stealth, it also have 1 Favored Enemy and one Weapon Training, I could add more but I think it would be unbalanced (Trying not to be a munchkin).The general problem with this approach is that if you have only a modicum of power at a number of things you'll not be exceptional at any of them, and Pathfinder in general assumes that each character will have a niche. What you've made has a greater variety of abilities than a fighter or rogue, yes, but it also isn't nearly as good at fighting as a fighter nor at roguery as a rogue. Fighters, rogues, and rangers will outshine it consistently -- which isn't much fun for the player, usually. Of course these aren't hard and fast rules, but it's a good general guideline.
If you want to make a jack-of-all-trades class, I think it's fine to sample a little from a variety of extant classes, but you should also create unique abilities which unify those sampled elements and somehow work toward a "goal" as wraithstrike called it.
You mean as bardy as a rogue? :-)
My take :
Take ranger. Drop spells. Replace with weapon training that increases every 6 levels after 5th. Weapon Training must be in the weapon style. GM decides what that means, if unclear. Just the numeric bonus increases, you only get 1 weapon type (which must be related to your weapon style!) At 3rd level, replace Endurance with the Rogue Talent ability. Grant one rogue talent. Every 3 levels thereafter, grant another.Drop Hunter's Bond. Replace with trapfinding as a rogue.
Optionally replace favored enemy with guides focus.
Take your core rulebook and cross out the rogue entry. Replace it with this class I came up with.
It's name is FrankenJackOfAllTrades.
I like this idea better.
edit: I still think one more think needs to be lost so more class skills can be added, but that is about it. Maybe terrain bond features.
You mean as bardy as a rogue? :-)
My take :
Take ranger. Drop spells. Replace with weapon training that increases every 6 levels after 5th. Weapon Training must be in the weapon style. GM decides what that means, if unclear. Just the numeric bonus increases, you only get 1 weapon type (which must be related to your weapon style!) At 3rd level, replace Endurance with the Rogue Talent ability. Grant one rogue talent. Every 3 levels thereafter, grant another.Drop Hunter's Bond. Replace with trapfinding as a rogue.
Optionally replace favored enemy with guides focus.
Take your core rulebook and cross out the rogue entry. Replace it with this class I came up with.
It's name is FrankenJackOfAllTrades.
Making a Ranger Archetype, I would drop: track, hunter's bond, Swift tracker and Master hunter... Maybe also: wild empathy, Woodland stride, Quarry and Improved quarry.
Making a Ranger Archetype, I would drop: track, hunter's bond, Swift tracker and Master hunter... Maybe also: wild empathy, Woodland stride, Quarry and Improved quarry.
You mean as bardy as a rogue? :-)
My take :
Take ranger. Drop spells. Replace with weapon training that increases every 6 levels after 5th. Weapon Training must be in the weapon style. GM decides what that means, if unclear. Just the numeric bonus increases, you only get 1 weapon type (which must be related to your weapon style!) At 3rd level, replace Endurance with the Rogue Talent ability. Grant one rogue talent. Every 3 levels thereafter, grant another.Drop Hunter's Bond. Replace with trapfinding as a rogue.
Optionally replace favored enemy with guides focus.
Take your core rulebook and cross out the rogue entry. Replace it with this class I came up with.
It's name is FrankenJackOfAllTrades.
Sorry, I meant that this is a ranger archetype.
If you don't want the nature theme, replace those for the rogue talents. But don't do it every other level, like the rogue does.
This version would keep Endurance at level 3.
Sorry I was not clear. I was saying trade in 1 or 2 favored enemy slots for new class skills.For a more indepth suggestion:
You can drop track and/or wild empathy to get trapfinding
Choose 3 or 4 more skill from the rogue list as class skill.
In return he only gets 3 favored enemies at levels 5, 10, and 15.
I would not give him 8 skill point because then why play a rogue, but if you do then he should lose the animal companion also.
Kinda go with what I want.
Skills choice: Acrobatic, Disable Device, Linguistics, Sense Motive.
Then replace Favored Enemy with Guide's Focus, and add those skills.
Can't you just use traits to get those skills?
It honestly seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it and all the other cakes made in the same bakery too. =/
Sorry I was not clear. I was saying trade in 1 or 2 favored enemy slots for new class skills.For a more indepth suggestion:
You can drop track and/or wild empathy to get trapfinding
Choose 3 or 4 more skill from the rogue list as class skill.
In return he only gets 3 favored enemies at levels 5, 10, and 15.
I would not give him 8 skill point because then why play a rogue, but if you do then he should lose the animal companion also.
Kinda go with what I want.
Skills choice: Acrobatic, Disable Device, Linguistics, Sense Motive.
Part of designing a class is not making another class obsolete which means doing everything they do, only better. With 8 skills + int there is no mechanical reason to look at rogue.
You might also want to have some class features unique to this class that make it stand out since the class really does.
Why don't you like the rogue as a jack of all trades? It has skills, and does decent damage.
Then replace Favored Enemy with Guide's Focus, and add those skills.
Can't you just use traits to get those skills?
It honestly seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it and all the other cakes made in the same bakery too. =/
I don't know much about the game to be honest, what is Guide's focus?
And I'm not sure I could get that many traits.
Part of designing a class is not making another class obsolete which means doing everything they do, only better. With 8 skills + int there is no mechanical reason to look at rogue.
You might also want to have some class features unique to this class that make it stand out since the class really does.
Why don't you like the rogue as a jack of all trades? It has skills, and does decent damage.
I'm ok with 6 + int, not sure about Features.
I like rogue for the most part except Sneak Attack, the lack of outdoor skils and the lack of proficiency
Then replace Favored Enemy with Guide's Focus, and add those skills.
Can't you just use traits to get those skills?
It honestly seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it and all the other cakes made in the same bakery too. =/
I don't know much about the game to be honest, what is Guide's focus?
And I'm not sure I could get that many traits.
Part of designing a class is not making another class obsolete which means doing everything they do, only better. With 8 skills + int there is no mechanical reason to look at rogue.
You might also want to have some class features unique to this class that make it stand out since the class really does.
Why don't you like the rogue as a jack of all trades? It has skills, and does decent damage.
I'm ok with 6 + int, not sure about Features.
I like rogue for the most part except Sneak Attack, the lack of outdoor skils and the lack of proficiency
The guide is a ranger archetype in the APG.
What do you mean by lack of proficiency? Is that armor or weapon?
The guide is a ranger archetype in the APG.What do you mean by lack of proficiency? Is that armor or weapon?
Feel a bit stupid now; mainly weapon.
Change out sneak attack for the guide variant's "ranger focus". Just change the name.
At 1st level, once per day, the guide can focus on a single enemy within line of sight as a swift action. That creature remains the Ranger’s focus until it is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points or surrenders, or until the Ranger designates a new focus, whichever occurs first. The Ranger gains a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls against the target of his focus. At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +2.
At 4th level, and every 3 levels thereafter, the Ranger can use this ability one additional time per day.
This ability replaces favored enemy.
For the extra weapon proficiency evasion can be dropped.
In place of the extra skills drop the skills per level from 8 to 6.
You know have an outdoors class that has a decent skill set, should do good damage, and wont make the regular rogue obsolete.
You could also look at the 3.5 scout class if you can get a copy of it, and allow it access to rogue talents.
Maybe I should just make a Ranger and swap some skills...
Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeoneering) and Spellcraft for Acrobatic, Linguistics, Sense Motive.
Dunno what to do about the Spellcasting part, Weapon training might be an Idea.
Well would that look good?
"
Male human Ranger 1
CG Medium humanoid
Init +6 ; Senses Perception +6
==DEFENSE==
AC 14, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +2 dex)
hp 15 (1d10+5)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +2
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft./x4
Melee Greatsword +3 2d6+3 19-20/x2
Melee Dagger, melee +3 1d4+2 19-20/x2
Ranged Longbow, composite +3 1d8 20/x3
Special Attacks Favored Enemy (humanoid(reptilian))
==STATISTICS==
Str 15, Dex 15, Con 14,
Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 14
Base Atk +1, Cmb +3Cmd +15
Feats Armor Proficiency (Light) (PFCR 118), Armor
Proficiency (Medium) (PFCR 118), Improved Initiative (PFCR 127)
Skills Acrobatics +6, Climb +6, Knowledge (Geography) +6,
Knowledge (Nature) +6, Linguistics +6, Perception +6, Sense Motive
+6, Stealth +6, Survival +6, Swim +6
Languages Chelaxian, Common, Elven, Varisian
SQ
Combat Gear Greatsword, Longbow (composite), Dagger, Leather
Other Gear arrows (20), Backpack, Bedroll, Candle, Fishhook, Flint and steel,
Ink, Inkpen, Belt pouch, Trail Rations (6), Soap, Waterskin, Book,
Tindertwig (6), Antitoxin, Traveler's outfit,
I dont know what you are trading out so I can't really say. I should be online tomorrow though.
For the extra weapon proficiency evasion can be dropped.You do know that a simple dip in Fighter would net all the Martial Weapon Proficiencies he wants, the two armor proficiencies he probably doesn't care about, AND a bonus combat feat right?
Evasion is generally viewed as one of those things people love about rogues (and lets them actually get some real mileage out of their high reflex saves.) Trading evasion for weapon proficiency just doesn't sit well with me.
Now if you were Trading Evasion for Weapon Proficiency and Full BAB (keep in mind there's no sneak attack now) I might go for that. Maybe turn the 'improved evasion' greater rogue talent into normal evasion.
You do have a point, but I don't think it is worth a BAB drop mostly because most rogues will make the reflex save most of the time anyway, and while thematically it makes sense I would not miss it if I did not have it as a rogue.
I think the OP really wants full BAB though. If not some conversion of the Scout class might work, replacing skirmish with the guide variant's ranger focus
I made a swashbuckler that is a bit of fighter/rogue/ranger hybrid. Instead of sneak attack or favored enemy, they get a variety of "combat strikes." A combat strike causes extra damage in certain circumstances. It was designed to make a dynamic warrior that doesn't step on the toes of the fighter or rogue. Examples of combat styles are charging strike (extra damage when charging), ambush strike (extra damage if you moved 10 or more feet this round), flanking strike (extra damage if flanking the opponent), fearsome strike (extra damage against shaken, frightened, panicked, or cowering opponents).
The extra damage is 1/2 the class level (minimum +1), which seems to strike a good balance between favored enemey (+2 per 5 levels) and weapon training (+1 per 5 levels, but always), and sneak attack (+3.5 per 2 levels, but with reduced BAB...).
I haven't playtested it yet, but I think it would be a fun, dynamic class. Basically, it rewards combatants that use tactical movement (like flanking and charging) and special actions (like using Intimidate to demoralize, possibly with Dazzling Display. )