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UC Unarmed Fighter


Rules Questions


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I have a question (or two) regarding the unarmed fighter archetype from Ultimate Combat:

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Unarmed Style: At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat (see Chapter 3) as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat. This ability replaces the bonus feat at 1st level.

As written this allows a first level character to take even the end-of-the-feat-chain style feats that build on other style feats and are usually restricted to higher level characters by a high BAB or skill rank prerequisite. A first level unarmed fighter, could, for example, take Tiger Pounce which comes with a BAB +9 prerequisite or Monkey Shine which requires 11 ranks in skills and can't usually be taken before 11th level.

Is this intended? If yes, then this can potentially allow first level characters to gain powerful abilities that are originally intended for possibly very high level characters. If not the ability is quite useless, seeing that it replaces the usual fighter bonus combat feat with a more restrictive bonus feat selection.

The second question is, since the ability says you can't use this to take a feat that grants Elemental Fist uses unless you have that feat, shouldn't it be the same for additional Stunning Fist uses, for example?

Shadow Lodge

One caveat is that you have to be in the stance to use the style, and i think you need the first feat in the chain to get into the stance. But yes, it would let you skip the middle of the chain and go right to the end.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

First question:
If I'm not mistaken, all of the later feats in the style feat chains say "while using X style, you can do such-and-such". But you can't actually enter that style unless you have the first feat.

So yes, you could take one of those later feats, but it wouldn't actually do anything.

Second question:
Dunno. It would make sense to work the same way, but it doesn't say so.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Hm, there is nothing that says you actually need to have the "style entry feat" to be allowed to enter a stance. And, in fact, if you follow the exact wording, you don't actually need to be in a stance to use the "entry feat":

Ultimate Combat, emphasis mine wrote:
As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style. You can use a feat that has a style feat as a prerequisite only while in the stance of the associated style. For example, if you have feats associated with Mantis Style and Tiger Style, you can use a swift action to adopt Tiger Style at the start of one turn, and then can use other feats that have Tiger Style as a prerequisite. By using another swift action at the start of your next turn, you could adopt Mantis Style and use other feats that have Mantis Style as a prerequisite.

The "entry feats" obviously don't have a style feat as a prerequisite, so the restriction seem not to apply to them.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Zaister wrote:

I have a question (or two) regarding the unarmed fighter archetype from Ultimate Combat:

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Unarmed Style: At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat (see Chapter 3) as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat. This ability replaces the bonus feat at 1st level.

As written this allows a first level character to take even the end-of-the-feat-chain style feats that build on other style feats and are usually restricted to higher level characters by a high BAB or skill rank prerequisite. A first level unarmed fighter, could, for example, take Tiger Pounce which comes with a BAB +9 prerequisite or Monkey Shine which requires 11 ranks in skills and can't usually be taken before 11th level.

Is this intended? If yes, then this can potentially allow first level characters to gain powerful abilities that are originally intended for possibly very high level characters. If not the ability is quite useless, seeing that it replaces the usual fighter bonus combat feat with a more restrictive bonus feat selection.

The second question is, since the ability says you can't use this to take a feat that grants Elemental Fist uses unless you have that feat, shouldn't it be the same for additional Stunning Fist uses, for example?

Only the first feat in the three feat style chains is considered a style feat. The latter two are not, and thus cannot be gained for free. In short, you MUST choose an "entry" feat.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Only the first feat in the three feat style chains is considered a style feat. The latter two are not, and thus cannot be gained for free.

Ah! How did I not notice that? That solves the problem, of course. Thank you, Ravingdork.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:


Only the first feat in the three feat style chains is considered a style feat. The latter two are not, and thus cannot be gained for free. In short, you MUST choose an "entry" feat.

May I ask how you're determining that? I don't see it in the raw, although it is a reasonable anti munchkin interpretation even if it does seem counter-legal.

In other words, who are you and what did you do with ravingdork? :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:

May I ask how you're determining that? I don't see it in the raw, although it is a reasonable anti munchkin interpretation even if it does seem counter-legal.

In other words, who are you and what did you do with ravingdork? :)

It's easy to determine. The first feats in the chain have "(Combat, Style)" listed after their names, the others just "(Combat)".

Shadow Lodge

Zaister wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

May I ask how you're determining that? I don't see it in the raw, although it is a reasonable anti munchkin interpretation even if it does seem counter-legal.

In other words, who are you and what did you do with ravingdork? :)

It's easy to determine. The first feats in the chain have "(Combat, Style)" listed after their names, the others just "(Combat)".

I see said the blind man. Thanks!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Zaister wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

May I ask how you're determining that? I don't see it in the raw, although it is a reasonable anti munchkin interpretation even if it does seem counter-legal.

In other words, who are you and what did you do with ravingdork? :)

It's easy to determine. The first feats in the chain have "(Combat, Style)" listed after their names, the others just "(Combat)".

I see said the blind man. Thanks!

I missed it too. Ah, the power of assumptions!

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