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We fought a weird monster in last night's game that had regeneration.
Despite all of our combine group's searching efforts, we could not find out when the creature regained hit points.
The creature in question was suffering bleed damage from our rogue, and we needed to determine if it takes the damage at all (if it heals at the start of its turn, than the creature negates the bleed before it can apply, but if it heals at the end of its turn than its just a little bit more hurt). We need to know if the monster had that extra last round to eviscerate our paladin or not.
So, do such creatures heal at the beginning or the end of their turn? Or at some other point in time altogether? We checked every logical source in the core books, as well as the FAQ, and NOTHING.
We fought a weird monster in last night's game that had regeneration.
Despite all of our combine group's searching efforts, we could not find out when the creature regained hit points.
The creature in question was suffering bleed damage from our rogue, and we needed to determine if it takes the damage at all (if it heals at the start of its turn, than the creature negates the bleed before it can apply, but if it heals at the end of its turn than its just a little bit more hurt). We need to know if the monster had that extra last round to eviscerate our paladin or not.
So, do such creatures heal at the beginning or the end of their turn? Or at some other point in time altogether? We checked every logical source in the core books, as well as the FAQ, and NOTHING.
I would think that it should do so at the beginning of its turn, but I have nothing to go on really. Honestly, if I had to rule it, the most fair option would probably be 1 round from when it was initially damaged.
Got no RAW for you though. :(
I rule at the most logical moment.
Regeneration / Fast Healing on the creatures turn whether it's at the beginning or end is irrelevant.
Then apply any other damage on the initiative round of the Player / Cause of that damage.
So bleed would apply on the rogues initiative even if there is a delay action, because a round signifies a 6 second period that all actions happen in. The individual initiative scores represent a portion of the 6 seconds that each individual starts to act within that period!
Hope that helps.
Sorry, Bodrin, it doesn't. Per RAW, bleed damage applies at the start of a creature's turn. That means the timing of fast healing/regeneration can have a huge effect on combat where such things are involved.
That means the timing of fast healing/regeneration can have a huge effect on combat where such things are involved.
I don't suppose it'd logically appeal to you that Either bleed Or Fast Healing / Regeneration occurs at the start of the afflicted creature's turn...?
This is a hypothesis actually based on an Item, not the text under the special Qualities... but, as an example, Ring of Regeneration explicitly states that its wearer is Completely immune to bleeding effects, whilst still keeping all the additional properties of Regeneration Except for the "hard to kill" factor.
And as per Bleed, ANY health regeneration or healing stops it... (Yes, even the Fast Healing not due to a spell, as stated by James Jacob Here )
Fast Healing and Regeneration, well, that's effectively Constant healing.
...Perhaps you'd allow such to effectively mean that the Fast Healing creature does not take bleed damage at all? ( or, the wound essentially clots fast enough to reduce any damage to Negligible levels )
Sorry, Bodrin, it doesn't. Per RAW, bleed damage applies at the start of a creature's turn. That means the timing of fast healing/regeneration can have a huge effect on combat where such things are involved.
Fine, I offer my opinion and you already have an answer from RAW!
I used your own example to explain my opinion, however if you want RAW as you state bleed happens on the creatures turn. Apply bleed damage then Regeneration / Fast Healing which then counteracts the bleed damage.
As any healing stops the bleed damage (RAW) you don't need to apply bleed after the initial round that it is applied. You can't argue that Fast Healing or Regeneration isn't healing as it restores hit points, this effectively negates the bleed condition!
Edit: Ninja'd
There's no need for EXCLAMATION!!! :P
Even without bleed, the timing still matters. A troll that has been knocked out might heal at the end of his turn, in which case, he can't act on that turn and the PCs have a whole extra round of actions to figure things out. However, if he heals at the start of his turn, he can stand up and attack anyone within 10 feet of him.
There's no need for EXCLAMATION!!! :P
Even without bleed, the timing still matters. A troll that has been knocked out might heal at the end of his turn, in which case, he can't act on that turn and the PCs have a whole extra round of actions to figure things out. However, if he heals at the start of his turn, he can stand up and attack anyone within 10 feet of him.
...In that case, it's going to need Developer's commentary, or GM's call.... Which is probably why you put the thread here in the first place, but.. XD
Beginning of its turn, Or at the end of a full round as determined by initiative rolls, makes most logical sense to me. Simply because I've grown accustomed to that, due to other games ( Magic the Gathering, and some videogames ).
Generally speaking, beneficial effects such as this imposed on oneself occur on the Creature's turn, as far as I know- As if they had just gained fast healing at the start of their first turn, in that particular combat sequence. As long as there's no conflict between Bleeding and Healing, this should work fine.
Just my 2 cents.
Edit: Come to think of it... Sorry. Unless it's part of the Environment, no effects come to mind that occur at the end of every round. That pretty much leaves the beginning or end of the creature's turn...
Did this ever get answered?
Hello, sorry for the necro:
In Rise of the Runelords
*Edit: Our next session is tomorrow night, I have about 20 hours to answer this, otherwise I'm flipping a coin
For ease of play I play fast healing/regeneration the same way I play spells with a duration. That being, at the very end of the round all effects take place, as do all spells with a duration end. As the GM I find it much easier then to have everything happen in many different parts of the round, because in my experience stuff gets forgotten far more when they are all broken up.
I'd say it happens at the beginning of its turn, it makes the most sense that way.
That's how I have always played it. Although to date I think I have forgotten to do it with every single NPC/Monster I ran with it.
Given that bleed effects are usually relatively weak, maybe they should apply first. Fast healing will end them after one application then, anyway.
I am a big fan of regenerating / fast healing monsters, but yes, it's a micromanagement mess. Maybe an asterix helps to remember that a creature is healing.