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I'm new to Pathfinder, and I'm just wondering how long it takes to get to 5th level in terms of sessions (figuring four hours or so per session)?
How much do the three different advancement rates change this? Does the Beginner Box assume a particular advancement rate?
The Beginner Box assumes the Medium XP track.
Assuming that all encounters have Challenge Ratings (CRs) that match the Average Party Level (APL) of the characters, then every advancement of level takes 13 encounters in the Fast XP track, 20 encounters in the Medium XP track, and 30 encounters in the Slow XP track.
The intro adventure that comes with the Beginner Box has about 10 encounters and takes you halfway to 2nd level, assuming a Medium XP track.
So if you double that, that might be a good guess of how long it will take you to go up a level. It's hard to say how long that will take - every group is different. Also, this also assumes you're always doing solid dungeon crawling. Campaigns that have more storytelling, roleplaying, and exploration tend to take up more time compared to the amount of XP you get.
Personally, I prefer slow advancement. But then again I'm a GM -- I'm sure my players would think differently. :)
I'm new to Pathfinder, and I'm just wondering how long it takes to get to 5th level in terms of sessions (figuring four hours or so per session)?
It varies wildly, but going up a level every three sessions is a fairly brisk pace in my experience. That's the rate that's used in Pathfinder Society organised play.
I'm new to Pathfinder, and I'm just wondering how long it takes to get to 5th level in terms of sessions (figuring four hours or so per session)?It varies wildly, but going up a level every three sessions is a fairly brisk pace in my experience. That's the rate that's used in Pathfinder Society organised play.
I tend to use the Medium experience track, although have been known to throw it to one side when needed and rule things on a more adhoc basis. Really the best answer is that you need to speak to your GM and figure it out between the two of you. There is no hard and fast rule
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If you find the provided Slow, Medium, and Fast tracks limiting, then perhaps you should resort to a GM's Secret: engineer the desired rate of advancement in a campaign. For example, you can multiply the XP at the end of a session by some factor before announcing it to the players. :) This "x" factor can also be adjusted in between sessions, as the GM gets more of a sense of how fast he or she wants to go.
Alternatively, the GM can hand-wave level advancement. Some GMs prefer this because they want the PCs' level to cohere with where they are in the story. But on the other hand, many players like to add up and track their XP.
Perhaps talk first with your group about what rate of advancement you'd prefer. Some people like having frequent rewards or want to experience the "feel" of high-level play quickly. Others like the feeling of being rewarded only after a significant amount of time or only after great risk, or dislike the idea of the PCs going from relatively-average people to superheroes in a small amount of game time.
Once you guys agree, then start from that base assumption and see whether the rules are giving you the rate of advancement you're looking for. If not, then change it.
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Thanks for all the helpful responses!
I plan to run the Beginner Box rules for my three kids (ages 7-11), and though I would like them to feel some sense of advancement, I would like to keep them in the Beginner Box rules for quite some time.
If everything goes as planned, I hope to playing short, but frequent sessions with them every weekend for a long time. I'd like advancement to be slow so that they can play some of the same characters and campaign for years to come. I plan to largely use adventure of my own creation.
I haven't run a level-based game since 2nd Edition AD&D, and with weekly sessions over a year, if I recall correctly, I'd have players around 8th level or so. That is the sort of 1st/2nd Edition AD&D advancement rate I'm looking for. I'm guessing I should probably look to using the "slow" experience tables?
Thanks again for all the comments.
I haven't run a level-based game since 2nd Edition AD&D, and with weekly sessions over a year, if I recall correctly, I'd have players around 8th level or so. That is the sort of 1st/2nd Edition AD&D advancement rate I'm looking for. I'm guessing I should probably look to using the "slow" experience tables?
Maybe, although it's important to note that AD&D advancement was actually reasonably quick at low levels before becoming very slow at mid to high levels. By contrast, level advancement in 3E or Pathfinder takes a constant number of encounters at all levels. So no matter which XP track you choose, it won't be quite like AD&D advancement.
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Thanks for all the helpful responses!
I plan to run the Beginner Box rules for my three kids (ages 7-11), and though I would like them to feel some sense of advancement, I would like to keep them in the Beginner Box rules for quite some time.
If everything goes as planned, I hope to playing short, but frequent sessions with them every weekend for a long time. I'd like advancement to be slow so that they can play some of the same characters and campaign for years to come. I plan to largely use adventure of my own creation.
I haven't run a level-based game since 2nd Edition AD&D, and with weekly sessions over a year, if I recall correctly, I'd have players around 8th level or so. That is the sort of 1st/2nd Edition AD&D advancement rate I'm looking for. I'm guessing I should probably look to using the "slow" experience tables?
Thanks again for all the comments.
You're very welcome. I love kids, and one thing I'd love to be able to do is introduce Pathfinder to people between 7 and 16 years old especially. People that age are so full of excitement and imagination that it becomes more fun for me also. Running it with your own kids must make it even more special! Don't be surprised if they start adding their friends to the game and/or GMing also!
It sounds like for you that the Slow XP track is the way to start. You might even need to reward XP more slowly on top of that: D&D from 3rd Edition forward has "programmed" it so that the default rules for XP mean that you level-up quite quickly compared to previous editions. (In fact, the rate of advancement in 3.0 and 3.5 is closest to Pathfinder's Fast XP track -- Paizo dialed things back a bit when releasing the Pathfinder core rules.) And if you're doing combat-heavy adventures, then this rate of advancement will be even quicker than what Pathfinder's rules expect.
One tip is to put the PCs in situations where they have to go through many CR+0 encounters before they get a chance to rest and replenish their resources. That should help in slowing down the "real-time" level advancement a bit.
Also, could I ask you a favor?
I'm hoping a thread starts here, about young people's reactions to the Beginner Box. I have very limited time and so I can't do much playing these days outside my own group; and so to experience the thrill of hearing about young people experiencing the Pathfinder RPG for the first time would please me to no end.
So if you could post a report here about how it goes the first time, I'd love to read it!
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Maybe, although it's important to note that AD&D advancement was actually reasonably quick at low levels before becoming very slow at mid to high levels. By contrast, level advancement in 3E or Pathfinder takes a constant number of encounters at all levels. So no matter which XP track you choose, it won't be quite like AD&D advancement.
I wasn't aware of that, thanks for pointing it out, it is a significant difference.
One last question, assuming we are a few sessions in so everyone knows what they are doing, how long do you think a typical (CR matching APL) combat will last with the Beginner Box rules?
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Honestly, Narl, you may want to consider just letting things play out as written. Once they hit level 6, either they'll be ready to tackle the complete rules, or you'll be ready to filter them out to your liking. The pdf of the core book is only $10, and you'll have at least a few months to get up to speed.
Hats off to you, sir. You're doing your kids a great service by teaching them to think and imagine in these ways. Please do let us know how it goes.
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Personally, I don't know of a single gamer who would be happy playing at 1st level for six weeks or two months (which is roughly the 8 levels in a year pace you mentioned). - assumes weekly sessions.
*Raises hand meekly*
Off of what Lincoln Hills says above, there is a dramatic power difference when leveling up that kind of gets me out of the story of my character. But everyone's different I guess.
1. The single biggest reward a PC can get is advancing a level. And the most exciting will be the first time they do it.
2. The single biggest advancement in power and survivability is from 1st to 2nd level.
These are important considerations. At the same time, sticking to the first 5 levels using a faster XP track means planning to cut the campaign short fairly quickly.
(That is, unless the OP uses an E6 kind of system, which I forgot to mention is another path you could take. Google "E6: The Game Inside D&D" for the original game idea. Basically, you go up to 6th level, and after that you earn feats every time you level up. This applies to NPCs in the game world, too.)
#1 is true, but there are other rewards that you can throw at your players: magic weapons, rescuing a powerful NPC who joins the party for the next dungeon, finding a magic item that lets you traverse what was once an impossible obstacle, etc., etc. And rewards feel more like rewards if you face the obstacle first, which the reward lets you overcome. Spoiler for the Beginner Box:
#2 is also true, but the OP can also make sure the players don't face something they can't handle. Also, you may want to be careful with critical hits at Level 1. Your players are brand new to the game and you'll want to lessen the danger of a TPK.