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No still spell to go with the TWF?You convinced me! Double Slice KICKED TO THE CURB!
Nice! No dropping daggers to cast for her.
EDIT: You wouldn't want to sneak us a peek at Mammy next, would you, kind dinosaur?
This ROCKS! Running RORL now & the PC's are just finishing up Burnt Offerings. This'll come in handy for sure.
I prefer her original version.You must be a GM! ;-)
Well, yes. ;)
I will say that the wizard of the group came up with a very creative way to allow the party to run from her. He was clearly the star of that encounter.
JJ; instead of dropping double slice for still spell, perhaps improved critical (dagger) since she has a keen dagger already. Or swapping out that keen dagger for shocking or vicious or even spell storing.
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JJ; instead of dropping double slice for still spell, perhaps improved critical (dagger) since she has a keen dagger already. Or swapping out that keen dagger for shocking or vicious or even spell storing.
+1 to this idea, especially if you go with the spell storing dagger. It would be a nice addition to mage-type gear, which there isnt much of at lower levels in this AP.
With Xanesha, please be sure to double check the figures on the Medusa Mask... I seem to remember the DC for that item being a bit low for the spell it used and the caster level required to cast it/create it.
Just sayin'....
On the whole, LOVIN' the idea of the new Hardcover Runelords adventure path... I loved the Shackled City back in good ol' 3.5, and I was thrilled when they compiled all those Dungeon magazine adventures into one solid adventure book (especially with all the yummy filler that made the campaign so much more cohesive). I'm REALLY looking forward to the Runelords campaign hardcover.
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@James Jacobs
What's the reason for not wanting to rebuild characters?About Nualia:
** spoiler omitted **@KaeYoss
Did i say optimize her? All i did say was to beef it up a little (by having antipaladin levels instead of fighter levels) and give her lamasthu's favored weapon, what's wrong with that? And yes we all know that her stats are all over the place, it's the same with Tsuto's stats, i am ok with that but some things seem to make more sense from my point of view.
Anti-paladins are paladins first - that is not Nualia's story.
Killing dad and running away to be a killer is her evil-fighter stage. Returning to lead goblins to evil conquest is her cleric stage, no?
@GeraintElberion
Ok for some reason i thought that in the description of the alt class it said that not all antipaladins were paladins first, well although i was wrong i say not be restricted that much by the fluff text of the class*.
*but that's another topic entirely
@James Jacobs
What's the reason for not wanting to rebuild characters?Because I don't want to fix what's not broken, and because I prefer not to change things for the sake of change, and because I happen to think that the classes associate with most of the NPCs are already spot-on.
That said... I'm not trying to 100% stick to the EXACT build. There's a pretty huge difference between not wanting to chance character classes and not changing feat and skill selections. There WILL be NPCs who have different levels, or even different classes. I'm making those decisions on a case by case basis, but my baseline assumption is to not drastically change the class of any NPC.
That makes sense but i like change for the sake of change, i find it rephrasing in general and i think that in this specific book a change for the sake of change would be good becuase it would give a little more incentive to people who have already played the AP to play it again (and that means buy the hardcover).
A sorcerized TWFer with haste. Mwhahaha...so you've just pushed the inevitable to one adventure later. It's even crueler since the players will have more time to get attached to their precious PCs!! :)
Thanks James for this preview. This is one reason why reason why i keep coming back to Paizo!
The timing couldn't have been better. We're just about to start Part 5 of skinsaw and i had a thread running for a Xanesha retool.
At first I wasn't sure about the changes. A non-flying, non-hasted Xanesha didn't seem right. However, after letting it soak in my brain for a day I can say that i like the change. The climb speed makes it work and will make the encounter interesting in different ways.
The only red flag remaining from the encounter is the medusa mask. I'm worried that the possibility of taking out one PC out of a 4 PC party at the start of combat could easily create a TPK. In my thread i had suggested reducing the duration of the stoneskin. Maybe something like concentration + x.
Cant' wait to try this out.
...one more thing
Xanesha's magic item bonus haven't been added to her stats right? (AC, Hit bonus, damaged, etc...)
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While I agree that toning her down a bit was needed, this version of her essentially doesn't have any buff spells. One of the things I really liked about Xanesha v1 was that she was pretty much unbeatable when buffed, but manageble once her spells are negated. She was the perfect object lesson that once you're at mid-levels, you need to be able to deal with things in ways other than hitting them as hard as you can for as much damage as you can - in this case, you need to have a way to dispel magic. It was a lesson that my group had to learn the hard way with her, and run away, only to come back later better prepared for a magical threat.
It also gave the lesson that it's okay to run away when faced with a foe you can't handle, which is another very useful lesson.
Creative Director
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While I agree that toning her down a bit was needed, this version of her essentially doesn't have any buff spells. One of the things I really liked about Xanesha v1 was that she was pretty much unbeatable when buffed, but manageble once her spells are negated. She was the perfect object lesson that once you're at mid-levels, you need to be able to deal with things in ways other than hitting them as hard as you can for as much damage as you can - in this case, you need to have a way to dispel magic. It was a lesson that my group had to learn the hard way with her, and run away, only to come back later better prepared for a magical threat.
It also gave the lesson that it's okay to run away when faced with a foe you can't handle, which is another very useful lesson.
If you're looking for a fight against a lamia matriarchs who has lots of buff spells... that's more or less what Lucrecia has become.
Essentially, the two matriarchs have exchanged places in the AP.
=In Nualia's case...** spoiler omitted **...
By my reading she should be able to pick up iron will under the pathfinder rules, even before she adds that extra class level...
Edit: Oh! Right! The skill requirements! yeah, that is a toughie. I suppose there's always late entry? Do NPCs get a favored class bonus?
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Creative Director
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=In Nualia's case...** spoiler omitted **...By my reading she should be able to pick up iron will under the pathfinder rules, even before she adds that extra class level...
Edit: Oh! Right! The skill requirements! yeah, that is a toughie. I suppose there's always late entry? Do NPCs get a favored class bonus?
Yup; it's the skill requirements that's tough. She COULD qualify, but that'd mean an even more drastic re-design. Furthermore, she'd need Weapon Focus (falchion) anyway, and since I'm not willing to change her bastard sword to a falchion for two really good reasons (she needs a free hand to claw, and she's been illustrated too often with a bastard sword), that'd be a feat that is well and truly "wasted" for the adventure. I'm fine with giving NPCs sub-optimal feats if it's in their personalty to take them, but if Nualia had that particular one, she'd absolutely use a falchion.
In any event... if she survives Burnt Offerings, she's certainly got the option to switch over to falchions and the divine scion class later! Since she doesn't really gain much special from a 1st level of divine scion (which is all she'd take in any case even if I did have her take a level for the Hardcover), though... it's not like a HUGELY missed opportunity, rules wise.
And yeah... it's kinda frustrating. A good example of what happens when we try to be all tricksy and sneaky about developing game rules well before we need them—I should have looked more closely at Nualia's stat block when I was developing the Divine Scion and tweaked things to be a bit more usable by me when I got to the point of working on the Hardcover. Oh well. At least the same thing that I did for her demonic transformation, as detailed in Lords of Chaos, worked out perfect! ;-)
Quick (unrelated) question about Nualia:
What kind of weapon is she holding in the illustration in inner sea magic?
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Quick (unrelated) question about Nualia:
What kind of weapon is she holding in the illustration in inner sea magic?
It looks like a Nodachi
Nodachi
This very long two-handed weapon has a slender but wickedly sharp 4-foot-long blade at one end and is predominantly used by ground troops to attack mounted warriors.
Benefit: A nodachi can be used to hack riders from their mounts or set to receive a charge.
Feature(s): brace
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Creative Director
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Quick (unrelated) question about Nualia:
What kind of weapon is she holding in the illustration in inner sea magic?
A poorly illustrated version of her bastard sword, alas...
I'm not sure what it is, but it was ordered to look like her signature bastard sword with its jagged saw-toothed elements... but the artist chose to give her another weapon and then the art came in too close to the ship date for us to get it fixed, if I remember correctly.
Can't win 'em all.
It looked like a nodachi to me too and that's why i was like what the F@#4?
So this is soppused to be a bastard sword hm..... well you can't win 'em all.
SO MUCH LOVE for this thread! :D I was REALLY worried about my players facing Xanesha. Dot!
James,
Thank you for the preview. I think she looks right for a tough level 6 encounter.
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Creative Director
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Question: The motivations for the party to start Hook Mountain Massacre are improved ? I remember that was me weakest part of the campaing and my players used a metagame reason to go.
Depends on what you're looking for. The motivations remain...
What about the start of the adventure did you find weak? Was it simply the fact that the initial hook (hah) for the adventure was nothing more than a "you did well in that previous adventure, can you do this next one for me?" start?
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What about the start of the adventure did you find weak? Was it simply the fact that the initial hook (hah) for the adventure was nothing more than a "you did well in that previous adventure, can you do this next one for me?" start?
Bottom Line Up Front: This story hook proves problematic with groups that aren't necessarily in it for the money and/or spend time getting to know Lord Mayor Grobaras during Skinsaw Murders.
For what it's worth, I also ran into a problem with this story hook. My group had a strong "do-gooder" streak and a low opinion of the Lord Mayor by the time we were done with Skinsaw Murders: his cowardice combined with his reliance on Hellknights for order had rubbed the LG types entirely the wrong way.
I got around it with one of my PCs backstory - she had a childhood friend who had left the Mierani Forest to learn magic. Along the way, she had been corrupted by the clergy of Lamashtu and had eventually been transformed into a terrible monster who took a new name - Xanesha. Xanesha proved to be a deadly foe and killed one of the PCs in the battle. When she fell, the party discovered that Xanesha had been indoctrinated by another Lamia and headed to Turtleback Ferry to exact vengeance both for their fallen comrade and for the PCs lost childhood friend. Not entirely helpful from an AP perspective, but it's one of my favorite stories from our run.
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Creative Director
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What about the start of the adventure did you find weak? Was it simply the fact that the initial hook (hah) for the adventure was nothing more than a "you did well in that previous adventure, can you do this next one for me?" start?Bottom Line Up Front: This story hook proves problematic with groups that aren't necessarily in it for the money and/or spend time getting to know Lord Mayor Grobaras during Skinsaw Murders.
For what it's worth, I also ran into a problem with this story hook. My group had a strong "do-gooder" streak and a low opinion of the Lord Mayor by the time we were done with Skinsaw Murders: his cowardice combined with his reliance on Hellknights for order had rubbed the LG types entirely the wrong way.
I got around it with one of my PCs backstory - she had a childhood friend who had left the Mierani Forest to learn magic. Along the way, she had been corrupted by the clergy of Lamashtu and had eventually been transformed into a terrible monster who took a new name - Xanesha. Xanesha proved to be a deadly foe and killed one of the PCs in the battle. When she fell, the party discovered that Xanesha had been indoctrinated by another Lamia and headed to Turtleback Ferry to exact vengeance both for their fallen comrade and for the PCs lost childhood friend. Not entirely helpful from an AP perspective, but it's one of my favorite stories from our run.
Hmmm... would punching up the "The rangers might be in trouble; they're good guys, so you should go help them!" solve some of the problems?
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Hmmm... would punching up the "The rangers might be in trouble; they're good guys, so you should go help them!" solve some of the problems?
I certainly think so. Additionally, playing up the angle with Shalelu (especially if the DM exploits NPC relationships - maybe with the help of some Jade Regent rules) can give the hook some more bite. One of the biggest challenges is the remote nature of the problem. We've got trouble in Sandpoint, issues in Magnimar...and we're going to head into the distant wilderness for strangers in trouble? How do I, as the DM, get the party to care about people they've never met? Is there a way to clearly tie potential trouble at the Fort to the hints the PCs have been given without spoiling the adventure? Some hint of the Sihedron pattern might help.
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Maybe the party finds a memo on Sihedron Letterhead with a return address in Turtleback Ferry?
I keed! I keed!
Hmmm, although, this type of finding coupled with a letter from the rangers to the Mayor reporting of increased activity and a request for support might do something. The rangers asking for help might also solve the problem that some people said they had with the supposed time disparity between the fort going silent and the appearances of the fort having just been conquered when the players arrive.
This book can't arrive soon enough!
Hmmm... would punching up the "The rangers might be in trouble; they're good guys, so you should go help them!" solve some of the problems?
I solved this using the letter Lisa wrote for her group. Got my players all interested in going to Turtleback Ferry.
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What about the start of the adventure did you find weak? Was it simply the fact that the initial hook (hah) for the adventure was nothing more than a "you did well in that previous adventure, can you do this next one for me?" start?
Yeah, that is it. But,
Its the so far away part the hurt the most.
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I solved this using the letter Lisa wrote for her group. Got my players all interested in going to Turtleback Ferry.
Hmmmmm. I must have been subconsciously channeling Lisa's letter when I made my post. After reading the link, I'm sure I've read it before. Oh well.
I solved this using the letter Lisa wrote for her group. Got my players all interested in going to Turtleback Ferry.Hmmmmm. I must have been subconsciously channeling Lisa's letter when I made my post. After reading the link, I'm sure I've read it before. Oh well.
That's the letter I used as well, and it worked like a charm with my group. The only real detriment to it is that you pretty much have the party seeking to head out right away, as finding that letter makes the situation seem more immediate. This eliminates any downtime you might have wanted to give your characters for magic item creation and the like. That was no problem for my group, since they aren't really craftsmen at all, but others may struggle with the quick turnaround.
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Bottom Line Up Front: This story hook proves problematic with groups that aren't necessarily in it for the money and/or spend time getting to know Lord Mayor Grobaras during Skinsaw Murders.For what it's worth, I also ran into a problem with this story hook. My group had a strong "do-gooder" streak and a low opinion of the Lord Mayor by the time we were done with Skinsaw Murders: his cowardice combined with his reliance on Hellknights for order had rubbed the LG types entirely the wrong way.
My PCs were similarly wary of Lord Mayor Grobaras. However, they did know that his assistant, whose name eludes me at the moment, was a good man. A plea from him cemented the decision to check it out.
I just made sure that when I introduced the Lord Mayor, the assistant was a silent but powerful force for the good of the people.
It really helped.
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I hope this helps some people that are having trouble with that aspect of the AP!
My PCs were similarly wary of Lord Mayor Grobaras. However, they did know that his assistant, whose name eludes me at the moment, was a good man. A plea from him cemented the decision to check it out.
I just made sure that when I introduced the Lord Mayor, the assistant was a silent but powerful force for the good of the people.
Yeah, I played up the assistant quite a bit as well, hinting that he was directly responsible for most of the day to day decision making and routine operation of the city, with Grobaras a near-figurehead: someone who had real power but frequently couldn't be bothered to exercise it.
How has the ethillion pool been reimagined for the updated AP? In the 3.5 edition of Runelords, ethillion was created to defer the XP costs for magic item creation -- no longer meaningful under the PF rules.
The group I'm running has just entered Runeforge and I'm still not sure what I want to do with that pool. I suppose the substance could reduce the crafting DC of one item per vial, but that seems...underwhelming.
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How has the ethillion pool been reimagined for the updated AP? In the 3.5 edition of Runelords, ethillion was created to defer the XP costs for magic item creation -- no longer meaningful under the PF rules.
The group I'm running has just entered Runeforge and I'm still not sure what I want to do with that pool. I suppose the substance could reduce the crafting DC of one item per vial, but that seems...underwhelming.
I would make it that it could be used as the equivalent in gp cost for the purposes of enchanting items. It could significantly reduce the cost for enchanting armor, weapons, etc.
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Creative Director
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How has the ethillion pool been reimagined for the updated AP? In the 3.5 edition of Runelords, ethillion was created to defer the XP costs for magic item creation -- no longer meaningful under the PF rules.
The group I'm running has just entered Runeforge and I'm still not sure what I want to do with that pool. I suppose the substance could reduce the crafting DC of one item per vial, but that seems...underwhelming.
I haven't gotten to that part of the adventure yet, so I can't say for sure. But the easy version would be to instead defer the GP costs of item creation, or simply to grant a bonus on checks made to create items.
IMC, I killed two birds with one stone in regards to the ethillion pool and all the mis-sized magic items. I allow someone with an item creation feat to "unmake" an item, getting the masterwork component and an ounce of "ethillion" per 1000gp of sale value. Economically, it's the same as selling the item for half price, but this way instead of throwing around a ton of cash to "buy" magic item construction reagents, you have an easily portable McGauffin. Thus the pool is full of gold that can be sold or used to enchant magic items.
As for the Turtleback Ferry hook, I, too, used the letter from Lucretia hook. My party was all about going after the bad guys, and haven't needed much more than a nudge to send them off in what Buford T. Justice would call "hot pursuit". The main problem with that hook, as I recall, is the timeline. By the time Magnimar could possibly know anything was wrong at a frontier fort of miscreants, and for the Lord Mayor to get around to sending anyone up there, and for the party to actually get there, the fort should have been months abandoned. After having just stopped a cult of murderers in Sandpoint and Magnimar all flashing the sidhedron gang sign, my group didn't need much to get them up there to save the town they'd never heard of before.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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The main problem with that hook, as I recall, is the timeline. By the time Magnimar could possibly know anything was wrong at a frontier fort of miscreants, and for the Lord Mayor to get around to sending anyone up there, and for the party to actually get there, the fort should have been months abandoned.
I agree; the main problem I've seen with the hook to the third adventure is the timeline. It's portrayed in the module as though the attack pretty much just happened, but given how long it would take Magnimar to even realize that something was wrong at such an isolated fort, and then the travel time to get there, it seems unlikely that things would still be in such a fresh state.
This could be addressed fairly easily by having one of the rangers at the fort send an Animal Messenger or the like, warning Magnimar that an attack was underway. When the rangers don't follow up with an all-clear, the City could start getting a rescue mission organized sooner than if they just missed a regular checkin.
I agree; the main problem I've seen with the hook to the third adventure is the timeline. It's portrayed in the module as though the attack pretty much just happened, but given how long it would take Magnimar to even realize that something was wrong at such an isolated fort, and then the travel time to get there, it seems unlikely that things would still be in such a fresh state.
I gave Ft. Rannick a magic chest, extradimensionally linked to a twin chest in Magnimar; anything placed in one chest can be retrieved from the other so long as the "sending" chest is closed and locked. It's how the fort sends its routine reports to and receives monthly payroll from Magnimar.
This leaves some wiggle room in the timeline. Perhaps the person in Magnimar who's supposed to be checking the chest for reports has become complacent; perhaps arrangememts were made to remove or hide the chest at the fort so messages could not be send quickly.
(I also decided that the quartermaster at Rannick had been editing the reports slightly, omitting mentions of a gradual reduction in manpower that's had the fort undermanned for over a year so that Magnimar would continue to send the full payroll. He's been pocketing the overage and hiding it away for his retirement.)
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I think the "Lisa Letter" is supposed to take care of the continuity issue. It's supposed to be used in place of, not in addition to, the Magnimar hook. The characters hopefully realize that they can't put it off to long. I would approach it in a "Lord of the Rings (book, not movie)" way in that the gears of evil move slowly, so that as long as the characters are reasonably working towards going to the fort, I would allow them time to construct or acquire equipment that they might need. The attack itself would then occur at a point just prior to them arriving in the area.
Of course, not having run it yet, it may not work out that nicely, but I think it should work.
How has the ethillion pool been reimagined for the updated AP? In the 3.5 edition of Runelords, ethillion was created to defer the XP costs for magic item creation -- no longer meaningful under the PF rules.
The group I'm running has just entered Runeforge and I'm still not sure what I want to do with that pool. I suppose the substance could reduce the crafting DC of one item per vial, but that seems...underwhelming.
FWIW, I reskinned ethillion as the main objective of the runeforge for my party. I made it a substance of anti-magic that did serious and proportional damage to anyone with spells-per-day, based shamelessly on chorae from Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. The components need to be collected from the other wings of Runeforge in order to complete the negation ritual that allows this process.
My players like it, a lot. Probably because they are fans of the aforementioned books, and probably because the longest-surviving original PC is an abjurer. YMMV.
FWIW, I reskinned ethillion as the main objective of the runeforge for my party. I made it a substance of anti-magic that did serious and proportional damage to anyone with spells-per-day, based shamelessly on chorae from Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. The components need to be collected from the other wings of Runeforge in order to complete the negation ritual that allows this process.
So, how exactly could such reskinned ethillion be used against high-level 'casters, and what would be the effect? I'm entirely unfamiliar with chorae or the series of books you cited.
The magic in the series is very... Old Testament. Chorae are small orbs that, if touched by a "heretical" practicioner of magic, turns them to salt (yeah, way!)
I have Ethillion as a costly component in anti-magic things like Golems (and golems were the soldier of choice for Thassilonian abjurers in my campaign, largely due to a freak warforged PC)... in Golems a single drop of ethillion is used to make them spell-immune. They know that the abjurers in Runeforge had a lot of the stuff and the means to craft it into items. An ethillion-treated weapon deals bonus damage to spell casters based on their highest remaining spell slot or spell-like ability(1d6 per level). Ethillion-treated armor grants spell resistance, but nauseates any caster with spells or spell-like abilities.
In addition, the barbarian in the party is going the spell sunder route, and the ethillion weapon is my in-game rationale for that.
This is a total departure from the book. I think it's really cool, but it specifically the needs of my campaign. For a party without any straight-up non-casters, this would be a terrible idea.