..Yep.
I figured, one of these days, I'm going to make a Loremaster character, specializing in the Arcane ways of a Wizard from previous class levels.
Small problem though; Every time a Loremaster levels up, they gain the spells per day and the caster level increase... But none of the actual free Spells, like a wizard. So, unless I'm good with losing out on 20 free spells of varying levels, the goods have to come from Somewhere...
I figure a combination of Cypher Script abuse, and crafting wondrous items, would pay the bills.
By RAW, though, the Cypher Script use barely even lets you break even; Although you manage to fit More in a book, take Significantly less time, and you'd pay a Quarter of the usual price to write a spell... It still needs to account for man-hours or the original material ( a Wizard's travelling spellbook, for example. )
According to RAW:
Selling a SpellbookCaptured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within.
I assume this applies to Any spellbook- And that ignores whatever material the Spellbook is printed on...
Everything else... such as charging other wizards a fee for either convenience, or what they would charge You for copying the spell from Their book.... They're all guidelines, and GM's discretion.
Now, I understand most All of this would be GM's discretion anyways... But is there a way to sell your spells for even greater profit, without use of the Craft Wondrous Item feat?
All of my wizards (and other characters, really) are kleptomaniacs who think the world is all about them, so they take the stuff of people they defeat, without thinking twice.
I usually get my wealth that way.
You could sell your spells as a service. Caster level * spell level * 10 GP per spell you are able to find someone willing to buy. Crafter's Boon is probably something you could always get away with. Well, guess that depends if you are willing to find someone who will pay you 10 gp a day for one spell.
You could charge people for you using Fabricate for them. Or you can Fabricate stuff and charge for that. : P
All of my wizards (and other characters, really) are kleptomaniacs who think the world is all about them, so they take the stuff of people they defeat, without thinking twice.
I usually get my wealth that way.
You could sell your spells as a service. Caster level * spell level * 10 GP per spell you are able to find someone willing to buy. Crafter's Boon is probably something you could always get away with. Well, guess that depends if you are willing to find someone who will pay you 10 gp a day for one spell.
I'll be honest; Judging by the GM who's game I'm about to join...
- Magic is an increasingly rare phenomenon, a world that's somewhat less magic-dependent than what is suggested by Pathfinder's typical rules ( EX: the potency of spellcasters found in cities of X size... )
- I'm about to create a character whose sole method of learning new spells will be to either Research them individually, or make some good friends to share with.
That being said... I've come to the conclusion that, at Some point during this campaign... I'm going to attempt to Create a Mage's Guild.
For starters, I wanted to sell some spellbooks, with all the cantrips inside, and some lower level spells that I've picked up along the way. Dubbed "A Beginner's Guide to Wizardry", I'll fill the remaining pages with a Guide and explanation, and produce them daily, Handing them out to cities I visit, to encourage growth of the Magical community.
Hopefully, in turn, I'll be encouraging the growth of Wizards whose spells I can start mooching off of again..
Or...you know... Academies and Arcane Libraries. Those are important too.
...But first... I need some cash.
You could charge people for you using Fabricate for them. Or you can Fabricate stuff and charge for that. : P
There are infinite spells that can be charged, and used ^_^
For now... I'm actually looking for methods to Sell the Spells.
Magic's rare? Rob a bank in some far off land. It's not like they'll ever find you without magic.
Magic's rare? Rob a bank in some far off land. It's not like they'll ever find you without magic.
But... but.... I'm Neutral Good! :O Robbing banks might hurt people ;_;
I mean, sure, I've been using the last few days online to conceive of different ways to torture other spellcasters for eternity, attempting to deny them even the courtesy of Death and/or revival...
...But I'm supposed to be a good boy! :O
It sure would be nice if there were a better way of handling this, eh? Among the existing rules, profession would seem to be the best fit, but that's selling a first level spell every other week or so (or selling them more frequently but having a lot of overhead, if you prefer). It's dismally low, but off the top of my head I'm not aware of a better way of doing it without some kind of house ruling/GM fiat.
The way I'm thinking of doing it currently, I could have A "Beginner's Guide to Wizardry" book created at level 5 with the current creation costs:
Travelling Spellbook = 10 gp
Cantrips:28 spells * 1.25 gp = 35 gp
1st level:10 spells * 2.5 gp = 25 gp
2nd level:4 spells * 10 = 40 gp
3rd level:2 spells * 22.5 = 45 gp
-------
155 gp
created in 3 hours and 10 minutes.
Legally, by RAW, the Minimum I'd be able to sell that book for is 290gp, resulting in about 87% profit.
This is Perfectly safe, requiring No craft check, no profession, and no Craft Wondrous Item- Granted that I'm able to amass the 155gp for pure materials. It takes my character approximately a half day's worth of work to duplicate it.
Selling Two a day results in a clean 270gp profit Minimum.
Should the GM include this:
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook
Then my daily profit skyrockets to 850gp
...Can someone verify that I did this math right?
EDIT: Keep in mind, my character has the Cypher Script feat.
Can someone compare that to an average Crafting check for a 5th level character with a +5 int modifier, 5 ranks in Craft(whatever), + 3 from the Class skill bonus?
Edit: Finally, can anyone think of some feats that might Further improve this? traits? any particular class features?
Assuming you can find a market for all those spells in a low magic world. But I guess that's pretty much GM fiat either way.
...yeah...guess so.
Hopefully a good investment, though. ^_^
...Probably only going to be some level 4 or so Adepts, that can affort it, too...
All the rules in pathfinder concerning "commerce" follow a very simple guideline:
Characters will not be making meaningful amounts of money except by adventuring.
So, apart from GM fiat, you have no chance by RAW.
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I remember a post of a guy who wanted to sell the poison in a poison pool trap making huge cash ... in theory.
Then it's up to you but I think it was JAson who said that was abusing RAW and it's either you try to have an adventurer's life or a business man life.
If I was GM I would make you RP the selling of all these stuffs and find customers and so on.... Meanwhile, all the other characters are waiting. Or going for adventuring....
There are a lot of ways to make cash by RAW. But Pathfnder is not a game of business... It's an adventuring game.
You can "start a business" to make money, but killing an army of orcs with a cloudkill and selling their stuff is far more profitable. Just saying.
I'm a little confused by your costs/time bit. Cypher Script cuts the cost to scribe, say, a second level spell from 40 gp to 20 gp; why are you using 10? It cuts the time to scribe a spell to 10 minutes/spell level, and you appear to be using 5. Presumably, I'm missing something?
Aside from that, I'd agree that the issue of finding a seller is pure GM fiat. I'd probably be inclined to handle this sort of thing the same way I handle rogues trying to make money off of their skills: you can take a profession check or we can play it out. Wizards are strong enough without being handed a couple of hundred gold every time they take a day off, right?
Well, Cypher Script makes the cost for such things, both in time and gold, significantly reduced.... In Addition to this, It states under 'magic' that Duplicating your own spells in another book is Half as costly as writing in new spells.
Cypher Script
...
Benefit: Any spell you scribe in your spellbook costs half as much as normal and takes up only half the room it normally would (round all fractions up). It only takes you 10 minutes per spell level to scribe a spell into your spellbook (5 minutes for cantrips).
Replacing and Copying Spellbooks
A wizard can use the procedure for learning a spell to reconstruct a lost spellbook. If he already has a particular spell prepared, he can write it directly into a new book at the same cost required to write a spell into a spellbook. The process wipes the prepared spell from his mind, just as casting it would. If he does not have the spell prepared, he can prepare it from a borrowed spellbook and then write it into a new book.
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.
This is the Single Only method to make money off the task, by following pure RAW, as far as I can see; THe ability to copy spells from your book into another at a quarter of the cost and a fraction of the time.
Then I wanted to know if there were anything Else I could use to improve this process. Another feat, perhaps.
@ Everyone Else
...I'm a bloody Wizard, for my first five levels.
I've got a heavy crossbow, and a single casting of Fireball- Maybe two, with my Arcane Bond.
I'm Well aware that these are challenges I've accepted and need to overcome myself by Taking the class... And that I'll probably be significantly party-dependent, for a while...
But I'll be f*cked if I can't find a way to At least be self-sufficient in money. XD Plus, this process furthers my goal of "spreading magic across the world".
EDIT: Also, I'm relatively new to Crafting and Profession skills, and always sought different paths around them (Well, until I need Craft (sculpture) for making golems, or something...)... Can anyone compare this method of money-making to a typical Profession check, with the states provided above?
Can someone compare that to an average Crafting check for a 5th level character with a +5 int modifier, 5 ranks in Craft(whatever), + 3 from the Class skill bonus?
Why must you be a Loremaster?
Why must you be a Loremaster?
I'm a new player.
I'll be damned if I don't Know Everything, or have a way of learning about Anything exciting once a day.
Again, the only downside are the spells that a Wizard typically gets for free. That, and the fact I need to wait until level 8 before I can possibly take a level in Loremaster, because of the damn Skill rank requirements.
And the loss of class abilities. I like playing generalist and losing that free spontaneous metamagic hurts.
I think you can do fine with knowing it all without being a Loremaster. Bardic Knowledge will just add +5 to knowledge checks over the course of 10 levels, so it's not huge.
I recommend playing an Elf that's over 100 years old, and taking the Breadth of Knowledge feat. This will give you +2 to *all* Knowledge checks.
And then sticking with a Wizard. Look at the Divination subschool. Their Diviner's Fortune is also +1/2 level to skill checks. At level 10 Diviner, you'll get +5 to your knowledge checks 3 + mInt times per day!
And the loss of class abilities. I like playing generalist and losing that free spontaneous metamagic hurts.
Actually, I was looking into one of the Third party wizard Archetypes called "Intuitive Wizardry"
I'm not quite sure what to think of it- if it's overpowered, or not... But I'll definitely consider talking with the GM to see if I can take it. I love the idea of More Cantrips, and a few extra spells I can spontaneously cast without the need for Spell Mastery or anything Sorcerous... It suits my needs perfectly, as, with my original build idea, I'll never get those few free metamagic'ed castings anyways.
Else, Maybe I can convince him that I can become an Arcanamirium Crafter, despite the fact Absalom doesn't exist in this setting. It's more 'official', and, hell, I could always use a free feat.
I think you can do fine with knowing it all without being a Loremaster. Bardic Knowledge will just add +5 to knowledge checks over the course of 10 levels, so it's not huge.
I recommend playing an Elf that's over 100 years old, and taking the Breadth of Knowledge feat. This will give you +2 to *all* Knowledge checks.
And then sticking with a Wizard. Look at the Divination subschool. Their Diviner's Fortune is also +1/2 level to skill checks. At level 10 Diviner, you'll get +5 to your knowledge checks 3 + mInt times per day!
Sorry mate, I don't like the idea of dropping other schools. ^_^ Also, I have my heart set on the Half-elf.... Plus, I find Loremaster has a bit more utility, ironically, with the Secrets, Lore, Greater Lore and especially True Lore.
...Plus... Screw it. Diviner has a name that says "I can Tell you things about the future, if I look hard enough!". Loremaster's title screams " I'm a F*cking God of Knowledge. I know what you ate for supper. 9 F*cking years ago.". (Granted, they were a significant figure... XD ).
I'm sorry. I Really am looking forward to being a Master of Lore; Reference-man.
Well, if you were considering spontaneous casting, you may as well do Archivist Bard. They can take 20 on some knowledge checks, and can take 10 on all knowledge checks. With being able to take 20s on knowledge checks, they can figure out what your mom ate on the 90th day of your pregnancy ;)
Well, if you were considering spontaneous casting, you may as well do Archivist Bard. They can take 20 on some knowledge checks, and can take 10 on all knowledge checks. With being able to take 20s on knowledge checks, they can figure out what your mom ate on the 90th day of your pregnancy ;)
...Sorry, but I was Hoping to be able to cast Ninth level spells.
I'll look into it for another game, though. ^_^ Was planning to become a Pathfinder Chronicler and Archaeologist, but that may be a better idea.
One trick that I've used in the past as a wizard was offering to swap spells when I met an NPC wizard (and most towns have at least one.) It's not a great solution for higher-level spells because finding somebody to swap with is problematic, but then by that point you'll probably be capturing the spellbooks of vanquished enemies regularly. In the meantime, offering to allow another wizard to scribe your see invisibility in exchange for his mirror image - or whatever - prevents you from having to pay for anything other than materials.
Thank you, that was my intention from the start. ^_^
However, this world, as mentioned, was a little low on spellcasters... Therefore, I'm basically doing the whole Spellbook-selling thing both as a means to Uplift it, And make a profit healthy enough to support myself--- And maybe even, later on with Craft Wondrous items, to start an eventual Mage's Guild, if I make enough friends in the process.
Then I'll actually have wizards around that I can trade with almost daily.
Well, setting up an academy is going to take years before you can start mooching off.
I'd honestly just work out with your GM possible quests to learn arcane lore (aka: ancient spellbooks).
Bane: Amulet of magecraft.
Well, setting up an academy is going to take years before you can start mooching off.
I'd honestly just work out with your GM possible quests to learn arcane lore (aka: ancient spellbooks).
According to his story, I believe that's more than possible. Of course, I'll worry about such things once I'm actually In character, and in need of spells that won't often be found by traditional researching means...
Not going to impede me in my goal to uplift the world, though! =P
Bane: Amulet of magecraft.
Not bad ^_^
personally,I'm going to attempt a slightly different approach; Fast Study Arcane discovery.
the way I figure it, I can take about 10 minutes every morning (in character) to prepare a key set of spells, that I'll be using almost consistently with whatever adventure I'm to partake in. However, I'll leave a few spell slots open, on almost every level;
Whenever we're in need of a particular spell, typically one for utility, I'd simply need a minute to prepare it, while the rest of the party takes a small break.
of course, it's not Flawless, and it's most certainly not Spontaneous casting... But I figure it's about the Maximum in utility that a Wizard can be, and it's not going to use up a neck slot.
Not to dismiss that idea, though... ^_^
I was wondering; Could I spend a single minute to change the School I could spontaneously cast with, with that amulet?
*facepalm* Yup, that'll do it.
As far as craft/profession, selling magic kind of blows it out of the water. Profession's the easy one. Take a level 5 character, with 5 ranks in Profession, Skill Focus, and 20 Wis. His total bonus is +16, so he's making 26.5 gp in two weeks.
You're much better off with Perform (someone can check me on this, but I get ~ 50.5 gp in 10 working days for someone with a +16 in Perform).
Craft faces the problem that it depends on what you want to do with it, but you're not getting rich there, either. Your progress in two weeks with a +16 and a DC 26 is about 135 gp. Presuming we can find an item that fits these exact parameters, your material costs at 45 gp, you're selling it for 67.5 gp, and your profit is 22.5 gp.
All of which is to reiterate that if you want to get rich, kill things and take their stuff.
Thank you, mon ami. ^_^
This has otherwise brightened my mood. Especially the kill things and take their stuff. XD
I'm sorry to say that this sounds Extremely low, though... X_X I'm not going to ask for calculations, but... Ouch. to think I almost considered a Crafting skill I couldn't use to make golems. Ouch.
Alrighty, then. ^_^ It seems that even without anything in addition to Cypher Script, just Diplicating spellbooks can be extremely profitable, so long as the GM says there's a buyer.
...hmmm...
In terms of casting spells as a Service, I've got a few questions:
- Is this service even something that can be offered by a PC, or does this service only apply for PCs that absolutely require another spellcaster's aid?
- Since an orison or cantrip is essentially worth 5 gp per caster level, Can a character Offer their services by casting the equivalent Spell-like ability?
...If I'm not mistaken, there are Several feats out there that grant particular Orisons or Cantrips which can be used as a service or aid others. If the effective caster level for these is equal to that of the PC's character level, then... Hell, dare I say, that's more profitable than Crafting!
Pipsqueek, the lvl 5 Gnomish Barbarian, has a Charisma score of 10; He is just eligible for the Arcane Talent feat. So, he goes to a small village, finds the local storytelling spot and/or theatre, and sells his ability to create mystical and otherwordly Sound effects, using Ghost sound. At the end of the day, he is owed 75gp for his services. and if they don't pay, he threatens to chop off their puny... ankles...
A Single level in Any spellcasting class with orisons or cantrips basically ensures profit greater than most weaponsmiths. Add a trait like Magical Knack, and that triples your profit. You can make profit of 15gp every six seconds Simply by providing a village with Water
Am I wrong about this?
No, you're not wrong, except that if even an exceptional professional has to live off 13 gp/week, it stands to reason that the number of people who can afford to give you 75 gp for a day's work is unfortunately small.
That's exactly why I asked. X_X
It doesn't seem reasonable that a PC can thus offer his spellcasting services at that price. In fact, I'm not sure how Any NPC can afford it from another NPC. Maybe this Service is truly meant for a world where Any and All magic is exceptionally rare... Or it's simply meant for the Players alone, as a rule the GM can fall back on to give the player a hard time.
NPC: "My arm's broken, and I can't handle a shovel."
GM: "You want a spell that can move a 5ft cube of earth? Sure thing. 10gp."
NPC: "But... That's more than I make in a month-"
GM: " 10 gp."
PC: "I'll trade you a Kobold's dismembered arm..."
GM: "Deal!"
NPC: "My arm... Pain... so much... pain...WHYYY...?!"
GM: "It's 5gp for a Stabilize"
PC: "Hey, I can help give him a proper Burial now. That's considered 'good-aligned', right?"
NPC: "...Hate...you...all..."
PC: "...Hey, I'll trade you that Stabilize for a dead guy's clothes..."
GM: "Deal!"
NPC: "..."
No, you're not wrong, except that if even an exceptional professional has to live off 13 gp/week, it stands to reason that the number of people who can afford to give you 75 gp for a day's work is unfortunately small.
Cost of living on page 405 -- average 10 gp a month.
A level 1 expert with a 14 in his 'business' stat that takes skill focus is looking at a +9 on his roll rolling a 1 each week will still net him 5 gp a week or an average of 265 gp a year. His cost of living is 120 gp a year -- he has 145 gp extra each year and doesn't have to pay for anything that costs 1 gold or less. If he's level 3 instead he could have prodigy (or whatever the +2 feat is) for another +4 putting him up to a +13 with a roll of one each week giving him 7 pieces of gold, for 364 gp a year. Now if we assume he's not the most hated character in the world and instead rolls rather averagely he's looking at 9 gp a week at level 1 and 12 gp a week at level 3, for 468 gp a year or 654 a year at level 3 -- this is assuming he doesn't take the human alternate race trait heart of the fields for a half level bonus to their check or have anything else adding in such as masterwork tools (which together would give him another 78 gp a year for a total of 546 gp a year or 732 a year).
A first level spell from a first level caster is going to cost him 10 gp (which if the spell is first level is all I would charge typically as a PC), a second level spell is going to run him 60 gp, and a third is going to run him 150 gp.
Spells such a person might like cast on occasion.
1st level:
Infernal healing (after a bar brawl, or just a very bad day)
Mount (for a quick trip if he doesn't own a horse of his own)
Unseen Servant (to show off for his friends he has coming over for dinner that night)
Identify (just what is that thing his uncle left for him all those years ago?)
Crafter's fortune (He's working on a special something as a gift for his daughter's wedding)
Expeditious Excavation (digging a ditch)
Snapdragon Fireworks (entertaining again)
Youthful Appearance (like to 'spruce up' for a night on the town or on special occasion for his/her spouse)
2nd level:
Arcane Lock (a bit more expensive *85gp* but permanent)
Retrieve Item (dropped his wedding ring and *must* get it back!)
Detect Thoughts (what has his daughter been up to?)
Locate Object (I lost an earring years ago given to me by my grandma and I would dearly love to have it back)
Magic Mouth (last will or secret exit for an emergency for his family)
Phantom Trap (with an arcane lock probably enough to get people to leave stuff alone)
Adoration (short term but hey great way to influence the ladies!)
Masterwork Transformation (expensive! But to keep a heirloom in the family, or to fix something for a gift... could be very much worth it)
Now I'm not saying everyone is going to want something each day, or that the same person would want something every day -- but there's plenty of good stuff that's got nice non-combat applications that I could see experts, nobles, and even other adventurers wanting. These are the exact people that will have the money to spend on such things too.
I was wondering; Could I spend a single minute to change the School I could spontaneously cast with, with that amulet?
Um... ask your GM? Doesn't really say.
So much insight you'd think they were an NPC already...
...Nice ^_^
I really wish you could have thrown in some Orison or Cantrip needs... But otherwise, Bravo.
If someone can actually take a Feat that provides access to an Orison or Cantrip, then that Still outclasses your average PC's gain through the Craft or Profession skill. (From what I can tell.)
...So, the only question is, is the Average Expert going to have an interest in a Spellbook which might run them almost a year's worth of pleasure-pay....
Thanks for the post =D
They might -- honestly you might have the best chance simply offering to tutor someone's kid they think will make a good wizard.
Sure he might only have a 13 Int but heck that'll get him up to third level spells (by which time he can have a 14 Int which means 4th level spells... by the time he hits 9th level (about max for NPCs) he'll be able to cast 5th level spells too). He doesn't have to be the world's smartest (as I shown he'll be able to cast 5th level spells before he can) and it helps with your 'spread the magic thing'.
Of course selling the kid a spell book with his starting spells in it (stuff daddy is going to want to have cast like unseen servant and crafter's fortune or snapdragon fireworks... perhaps color spray for self defense) would be fairly standard. The book doesn't have to have a lot too it after all, 4 first level spells and all the cantrips (prestidigitation is like very minor wish for the amount of usefulness it has) means that even if he never leaves level 1 wizard he's dad is going to be very happy with his investment.
Cantrips of choice:
Breeze (during the summer or in a forge)
Detect poison (spoiled food? Yuck)
Dancing lights (entertainment and utility)
Scoop (get a drink without needing to find that stupid cup you sat down)
Mending (are you freaking kidding? Awesome spell for NPCS!)
Message (magesoft telephone company, how can we help you?)
Arcane Mark (I *know* you stole it because it has MY mark on it!)
Resistance (Um... simply yes please?)
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A bunch of stuff
Very much enjoy the Tutoring prospect, if I can figure out how to actually Teach a class of NPCs, myself... but... Hell, why not. XD
A month of crash-course classes and workshops. Every student is required to bring in:
- 1 Traveling Spellbook
- 5gp per day of lessons, for Spell Writing
- Their Tuition fee (Yet to be determined)(50% down payment at start of month, the rest at end)
- A signed waver for any injuries, and stating their parents don't mind them flinging around balls of acid and shooting beams of frost.
Basic lesson plan:
Mornings:
-Demonstrations of cantrips. Each day, the students are shown one (or several related) cantrips and its various uses. The students are taught about the nature of magic and how to effectively and efficiently use it, along the way. This is the theory-based portion of the class. The first two days of class are Always to teach the Read Magic cantrip.
Afternoons:
-Spellcraft and Spell-writing. Students are assigned minor notes and methods to most efficiently read and write in Magic scripts and notations; Each is provided with a spellbook, provided by the teacher, with all the spells needed to copy from. They must return these books by the end of the day. They provide their own material costs, averaging to be 5gp/day (mentioned in the requirements). If needed, Students may be Aided by the teacher (me!) in this process.
Night:
-Students leave, handing in the spellbooks. Teacher takes this time to copy in the Next day's cantrips into the books that the students will copy from. Individual tutorships occur now as well, for those students 'falling behind'.
---
The benefits of the above?
-Every student leaves with a book full of cantrips, worth 150gp
-This Encourages students to purchase a full book of spells from Me
-I get paid no matter what, with minimal losses if a student leaves.
-I can have as many students as I can write cantrips for. (5 minutes each per night)
- Magic is encouraged; I basically just created a group of Wizards, whom will likely be more than eager to copy a few 1st level spells from yours truly, or buy a Secondary book for level 1 spells.
-Everybody loves Mr. Wraith! =D
Maybe I'm just cheap. But I'm opting for the mundane solution when I can, because magic is expensive.
Nah, your post is pretty much what I was thinking when I made my little Expedious Excavation reference. ^_^
I'm cheap too. Doubly so.
that's why I wanted to know if there were any cantrips worthwhile.
Abraham Does make some excellent points, and the list of uses for first level spells, and some cantrips are excellent. ^_^ But a few of them ( Resistence? Scoop? ) are Only even remotely worthwhile if taught to be cast Endlessly...
... Mending is another affair entirely, as one of the Main exceptions to that rule. I feel that Anyone, *ANYONE* that can, should invest a feat in learning it as a spell-like ability. that alone, even if only charged 5 gp for a single casting, might make significant moola, or simply help Any adventurer on their path.
Pipsqueak, the gnomish Barbarian, would make quite a few townspeople happy and Earn his fortune with a nice mending spell, powerful enough to fix a door, a dress, a tool, a hole in the wall, etc... even the expensive ones.
EDIT: @Caedwyr Thank you, Will attempt to look into it later ^_^
Yeah I don't see all the casting as being stuff that would *normally* be stuff spent on -- many of the spells would be classified under 'luxuries' (like the unseen servant and snapdragon fireworks) -- however things like arcane lock and phantom trap would be very much worth it for many NPCs.
Also as a PC I would probably be offering my spells at a discounted price -- remember I was going to charge the minimum... but if I'm caster level...5 that horse lasts 10 hours, Identify can do 5 functions/items, Youthful appearance lasts longer... etc.
Now it isn't quite as useful as some of the stuff a cleric could get done for you, but there's plenty of stuff that's useful enough as is... especially when time might be a consideration.
One of the problems with all iterations of D&D is that the spells are very combat focused, rather than economic purpose focused :D. Seriously, though, wizards would come up with more economically useful spells than Magic Missile. Mending/Make Whole is a great pair of spells!
Yes, people are cheap, and rightly so. When even a 1st level spell from a 1st level character costs the average weekly wage, going to a wizard is like taking a trip to the auto mechanic...done when necessary and not before, unless you have large excess funds.
Spells that have the 'best economic' early value for Wizards (Core Rulebook) are:
Cantrip: Mending, Detect Magic
1st Level: Comprehend Languages
2nd Level: Locate Object, Continual Flame***, Magic Mouth*, Knock, Make Whole
3rd Level: Dispel Magic, Explosive Runes*, Tongues, Shrink Item
4th Level: Fire Trap*, Remove Curse**, Locate Creature, Scrying, Illusory Wall*, Bestow Curse**, Stone Shape
*Trap type magic, either permanent or long lasting.
**Double bonus money for having both. Reach Spell metamagic FTW. Putting curses on people has ALWAYS been a staple of for-sale magic, even in the real world!
***Hands down guaranteed seller. In a world where oil/candles is the primary light source, 110gp for a permanent light (11 weeks pay) seems like a bargain. We're talking wedding present territory here!
Note that Identify is now somewhat redundant (useful, but not necessary) and Arcane Lock only works for the caster. I'd expect the above spells to be the bread and butter of 'hedge wizards' who live in a community and sell magic. Even 1-2 spells a month will put bread on the table, given normal casting rates.
Of course, the only 'book mandated' way to make money this way is to take Profession: Wizard. Yay, you get to make as much as any other schmoe selling his services. Coming up with anything else would require heavy GM fiat, given the variables like available spells, metamagic feats, item creation feats and community size, competition, to name a few.
And it's a little unfair if 'Mr. Wizard' can set up shop and make a bajillion gp while 'Mr. Barbarian' cannot. In our campaign we sort of sidestep the issue by allowing craft/profession multipliers, which increase your income. Each craft/profession has a multiplier. Profession Farmer is x1. Craft: Alchemy is x3. The catch? The bigger the multiplier, the larger the community necessary to earn a living. Alchemists don't make jack in a village - they need a decent sized town. Ultimately we decided that we didn't care that this was unfair to people who chose Profession: Woodcutter rather than Profession: Jeweler, based on their backstory. People choose sub-optimal career paths all the time :D. For spellcasters, I'd suggest a multiplier equal to their highest spell level, limited by community size. You might sell 3rd level spells in small towns. You need a metropolis to sell 9th level spells - and with 17 ranks in Profession: Wizard, a weekly income of around 120gp isn't going to break the game at 17th level.
...I'm Really liking that whole Profession Modifier idea. A lot, Really. X_X
I think that's about the most decent idea for using your wizardry as a Profession as it comes, as opposed to simply handing it over to the GM each and every time you want to sell a spell for vast sums... The rates are something I'm a Little confused about, though; I understand the Spell level suggestion. However, I'd think the rate would be almost exponential; Just because a wizard has access to New, Expensive spells, does not erase his older demands, nor are the new spells of the same lower value... but anyways. Certainly one of the better alternatives ^_^
The list of useful magics that a village or county actually would hold in greater demand, is useful as well. ^_^ Could always use more ideas on how to sell one's craft.
...However, would you, as a player or GM, allow the selling of duplicated spellbooks?
...And now, I need to think up a proper "tuition fee" for my tutorship experiment...I mean, school...
Words can't describe my love for this thread.
Bane, you're awesome. A credit to the team, sirrah! Jolly good show!
I don't have much to contribute at the moment, I'm a little strapped for time, but I do have some advice for you. If you want to spread the cause of wizardry and want to know how you can profit off of your spellcasting, the only foolproof option is to ask your gm. If he knows what you plan to do with your character he can plan his story accordingly, and if he knows you won't have the time to rake in the profits like this, only HE can really tell you.
Now, I'll be back to lurk this thread for ideas. I've been hoping to play a wizard like this for some time now, so I'm really really stoked with all the great material in here.
Words can't describe my love for this thread.
Bane, you're awesome. A credit to the team, sirrah! Jolly good show!
I don't have much to contribute at the moment, I'm a little strapped for time, but I do have some advice for you. If you want to spread the cause of wizardry and want to know how you can profit off of your spellcasting, the only foolproof option is to ask your gm. If he knows what you plan to do with your character he can plan his story accordingly, and if he knows you won't have the time to rake in the profits like this, only HE can really tell you.
Now, I'll be back to lurk this thread for ideas. I've been hoping to play a wizard like this for some time now, so I'm really really stoked with all the great material in here.
...*secretly blushing*
=DHow about some unrelated, but still useful ideas? Such as...
- Using Leadership to build up a decent group of followers, then Dismissing your cohorts once they're of a level to have Leadership themselves. In other groups, Creating several small cliques of either mages, like-minded uplifting-interested individuals, or ( at higher levels) The Actual founding groups of individual Mage Guild Halls. All at the GM's discretion, though, since they Are NPCs.
- Once you're experienced enough to actually develop a University or Academy of some kind, you can get into the Really fun stuff. Planning and organizing the Arcane University is one matter. To run it, you can use the Cohort-with-a-cohort-with-a-cohort trick, at GM's discretion; A Sure-fire way of getting Hundreds of like-minded individuals, ruled by a hierarchical system, maybe even each cohort having a specialization school. Again, all at the GM's discretion, since you probably won't be the one fleshing them out. ^_^
- A nice benefit of both the above; Your students and guild members of all ages make Excellent new characters, or back-up characters, depending on your GM's game and needs. ^_^ Any GM that actually allows a player to develop such an intricate piece of their world, Probably wouldn't mind Your future characters being of Mage Guild descent. ^_^
- If a Mage guild is established, keep in mind there are a Ton of ways that magic can benefit the world Large-scale, especially with the more potent spells. Things like:
-- Teleportation Circle arrays between major cities and continents
-- The Mage's Post; A new hall dedicated to getting Your message there Faster. Airmail, with Homunculi! Express post via Ring gates!
-- The Mystic Theatre; Promoting the thrill of a play, with magical special effects to add to the epic tales of bards and more!
-- The Diviner (Journal); That's right. You just invented the newspaper. Overseen by a council dedicated to giving you objective worldly news ^_^
- Something Extremely important in any Mage's guild:
The Diviner's Court: About as popular as true Mercenaries, Diviners have organized their own court; Diviners of all sorts, good or evil, are a part of this court. Due to the individual ideals of each Diviner, the Court exists for Two purposes; So that all have a means to contact and locate the individual diviners, And for the Protection of diviners from other diviners and more aggressive patrons. They refuse to act if the diviner has performed some misdeed other than Divination, and hire their own mercenaries for the task.
- Naturally, Wondrous Item crafting is to be a Major side effect of any mage's guild; Just think of how many Sailers would benefit from a bottle of permanent Gust of Wind, that didn't need to worry about the whole "blowing your own sail" physics since it magically empowers the surrounding air to blow in one direction. Think of all the tools. Imagine Every noble in the streets treading around with a Hat of Disguise, cleverly renamed the "Good-looker's Crown", to make wearers seem like a younger, more handsome/beautiful version of themselves!
- I invented a system I've yet to perfect, involving Bards and performances. Ask if you want to hear more, and I'll make a new thread concerning it...
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Screw it... I'll post the Performance idea anyways.
Can Anyone else think of an actual way to Promote spellcraft and magic? ^_^
Oh. It should also been mentioned that, although probably already in place with more Theistic-themed games... A lot of the above Also applies to spreading the Divine! (As in, the Religious sort!)
A character can Equally be devoted to creating Churches in villages, where priests can Create Water enough to sustain a village's needs Entirely, heal the sick, and promote actual Survival and Healing.
A druid doesn't need other cities; Why not just Grow Actual Groves? Use your connection with nature, hire a few Treants, get some Pseudodragons actually organized to look over your sacred plot of land, then invite in the (more goody-goody) Fae to top it off!
Isn't there an organisation you can join that allows easier access to new spells or cheaper research ? PFRPG has some sample material for guilds and the like that give benefits to their members, it might be a fair deal to talk about it with ur GM and might be a source for side adventures.
Isn't there an organisation you can join that allows easier access to new spells or cheaper research ? PFRPG has some sample material for guilds and the like that give benefits to their members, it might be a fair deal to talk about it with ur GM and might be a source for side adventures.
Maybe. ^_^ Never deeply looked into it myself.
However, concerning the RAW... I'm already attempting to plan a Mage's Guild from scratch, that will essentially let me copy spells from other wizards as a free exchange; Half the point of the Guild I'm planning is that they actually make their money through other means, and offer ways of keeping track of other members.
Meanwhile, Cypher Script is a must-have for a Loremaster like me... ^_^ Already that knocks the prices down on most spells I'll ever need, while either I or the Arcane University itself can fund research into more advanced spells.