Creative Director
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It's canon that the Prince in Chains is the father of both Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon, now blasted and twisted into an evil monster that serves as his son's herald:http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/heralds/the-pri nce-in-chains
Here's the thing, though: the PiC is a relatively feeble CR 15. Not that big a deal, as divine heralds go. A party of four 13th or higher level characters should be able to take him down.
And, you know, wouldn't they want to? If they were -- let's say -- servants of the Prince's other kid, the girl? I would think that "capture the Prince and bring him to Shelyn so that he can be healed and redeemed" would be pretty high on an ambitious worshipper's long-term to-do list.
At this point about six people jump in to point out that, hey, Zon-Kuthon isn't going to sit idle while his herald is dragged off to the pound. Which, sure. But OTOH I'd think if a group of devout worshippers were to approach the goddess of love and beauty and express their sincere desire to rescue her one and only father from eternal torment, madness and evil, Shelyn just might come across with a /little/ bit of help.
Thoughts?
Doug M.
With one semi-error in the mix, all heralds are statted up at CR 15 with 18 Hit Dice so that they're perfect candidates for a cleric or other spellcaster to call up via greater planar ally. So in that regard, the Prince in Chains is neither more nor less powerful than ALL of the heralds of the gods. CR 15 isn't "relatively feeble" in Pathfinder, either. It's precisely the point where you'd expect monsters to show up in a penultimate or final installment of an Adventure Path.
As such, an adventure that has the PCs seeking out and trying to catch/redeem the Prince in Chains CAN be written for the current rules without having to wait for Mythic Level rules that may or may not ever come along. Which is pretty cool, I think!
This is actually something I really love about Pathfinder. I much prefer avatars and heralds that you can beat within the realm of the core rules. Unlike, for example, Forgotten Realms, where it seemed like the idea of "powerful" STARTED at level 20.
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I did like the Forgotten Realms; in fact, it was my favourite campaign setting prior to Golarion. But it definitely suffered from "Epic glut", what with NPCs like Elminster and Khelben around.
I like that Golarion has room in it for the players to become heroes. And I especially like that there generally aren't higher-level NPCs to which the PCs can appeal for help. Given the choice, I'd rather have a world the PCs can grow into, and become those world-saving heroes everyone looks to.
It's notable that the heralds of divinities themselves are CR 15 -- accessible to (and possibly beatable in combat by) mortals of sufficient power. In this light, there is hardly a need for "epic-level" rules; "epic-level" begins at the point one can go toe-to-toe with a divine herald, not five to seven levels after that. Not counting the gods themselves, a level 20 character is one of about two dozen of the most powerful beings in all existence.
If you're going to create an adventure around redeeming the Prince in Chains you might want to come up with an answer for the inevitable question of why Shelyn hasn't done this already. Your PCs might be stepping on some unpleasant devils bargain that Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon have regarding their father's fate.
Actually, the really interesting thing isn't Greater Planar Ally. It's Greater Planar Binding. Gods only start something with high-ish level wizards if it's worth putting their divine herald at risk of being summoned and bound...
Heralds have a special ability that makes them immune to Planar Binding of any sort. They can only be called with the deity's permission by worshippers of that deity.
It's canon that the Prince in Chains is the father of both Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon, now blasted and twisted into an evil monster that serves as his son's herald:http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/heralds/the-pri nce-in-chains
Here's the thing, though: the PiC is a relatively feeble CR 15. Not that big a deal, as divine heralds go. A party of four 13th or higher level characters should be able to take him down.
And, you know, wouldn't they want to? If they were -- let's say -- servants of the Prince's other kid, the girl? I would think that "capture the Prince and bring him to Shelyn so that he can be healed and redeemed" would be pretty high on an ambitious worshipper's long-term to-do list.
At this point about six people jump in to point out that, hey, Zon-Kuthon isn't going to sit idle while his herald is dragged off to the pound. Which, sure. But OTOH I'd think if a group of devout worshippers were to approach the goddess of love and beauty and express their sincere desire to rescue her one and only father from eternal torment, madness and evil, Shelyn just might come across with a /little/ bit of help.
Thoughts?
Doug M.
The Prince in Chains isn't going to be the only high CR opponent the PCs have to face to do this. Maybe not even the highest. The place he's dwelling / imprisoned in might just be a bit difficult to break into. I'd plan on facing a lot more than just the Herald himself :) Which may expalin why it hasn't been done. Divine warfare can be kind of messy / destructive.
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If you're going to create an adventure around redeeming the Prince in Chains you might want to come up with an answer for the inevitable question of why Shelyn hasn't done this already. Your PCs might be stepping on some unpleasant devils bargain that Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon have regarding their father's fate.
The Eternal Rose holds the Whisperer of Souls while the Dark Prince holds all that remain of their father Thron. As proud of his handiwork as he may be, surely he would agree to a trade for the powerful glaive, but she still holds out hope that without the glaive's corrupting influence, some day the old Dou Bral will be able to return, allowing her to save both her father and her brother. And so holds an uneasy truce between brother and sister.
The Eternal Rose holds the Whisperer of Souls while the Dark Prince holds all that remain of their father Thron. As proud of his handiwork as he may be, surely he would agree to a trade for the powerful glaive, but she still holds out hope that without the glaive's corrupting influence, some day the old Dou Bral will be able to return, allowing her to save both her father and her brother. And so holds an uneasy truce between brother and sister.
If you're going to create an adventure around redeeming the Prince in Chains you might want to come up with an answer for the inevitable question of why Shelyn hasn't done this already. Your PCs might be stepping on some unpleasant devils bargain that Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon have regarding their father's fate.
So you won't be breaking any actual agreement, but you will be offending Zon-Kuthon, and Shelyn might not be able to offer any aid or protection without breaking the precarious truce between siblings.
Heralds have a special ability that makes them immune to Planar Binding of any sort. They can only be called with the deity's permission by worshippers of that deity.
Actually, the really interesting thing isn't Greater Planar Ally. It's Greater Planar Binding. Gods only start something with high-ish level wizards if it's worth putting their divine herald at risk of being summoned and bound...
And only with divine spells, just to make sure.