Spiked Chain NOT a sure win


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Okay folks I know there has been lots of discussion on the spiked chain. In my personal opinion I agree with those who say that the spiked chain was nerfed. It by no means provides an invincible character, even using 3.5 rules. Because, most opponents generally carry some form of ranged weapon. To those who don't I do agree that the spiked chain would be semi-invincible. However you also have to consider the amount of spell casters. Imagine charming a spiked chain fighter and using them against us their allies. Not to mention the fact that in Pathfinder almost every monster in the bestiary has a ranged attack.

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Mr Smiles wrote:
Okay folks I know there has been lots of discussion on the spiked chain. In my personal opinion I agree with those who say that the spiked chain was nerfed. It by no means provides an invincible character, even using 3.5 rules. Because, most opponents generally carry some form of ranged weapon. To those who don't I do agree that the spiked chain would be semi-invincible. However you also have to consider the amount of spell casters. Imagine charming a spiked chain fighter and using them against us their allies. Not to mention the fact that in Pathfinder almost every monster in the bestiary has a ranged attack.

I'm not sure I get the point of your post. Is it that you've been hearing a bunch of people claiming that the spiked chain is overpowered, and you're here to say they're wrong and it's fine?


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Oh hello there 2009.


Cheapy wrote:
Oh hello there 2009.

+1 and also, HAHAHAHA


Jiggy wrote:
Mr Smiles wrote:
Okay folks I know there has been lots of discussion on the spiked chain. In my personal opinion I agree with those who say that the spiked chain was nerfed. It by no means provides an invincible character, even using 3.5 rules. Because, most opponents generally carry some form of ranged weapon. To those who don't I do agree that the spiked chain would be semi-invincible. However you also have to consider the amount of spell casters. Imagine charming a spiked chain fighter and using them against us their allies. Not to mention the fact that in Pathfinder almost every monster in the bestiary has a ranged attack.
I'm not sure I get the point of your post. Is it that you've been hearing a bunch of people claiming that the spiked chain is overpowered, and you're here to say they're wrong and it's fine?

No the point is that i've been pouring through post after post and not one person has stated the fact that a ranged attack is a good answer to some one who tries to use the "Perfect Spiked Chain Combo". Personally I GM for my players and since we have played 3.5 some of them were attached to the spiked chain and the way it was. If they want use it 3.5 style no big deal to me. It shouldn't be something so many people are hung up on. I've noticed many people say lunge is the answer for the nerfing, maybe if your a fighter, pally, or ranger but even then thats alot of levels to wait for your concept of an awesome chain fighter. I'm here to say the spiked chain is only as overpowered as you let it become. As a GM you are not bound by the rules of the game as they are inked if you thought the spiked chain was nerfed go with the old rules if you thought it was overpowered in 3.5 go with the new rule.


Mr Smiles wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Mr Smiles wrote:
Okay folks I know there has been lots of discussion on the spiked chain. In my personal opinion I agree with those who say that the spiked chain was nerfed. It by no means provides an invincible character, even using 3.5 rules. Because, most opponents generally carry some form of ranged weapon. To those who don't I do agree that the spiked chain would be semi-invincible. However you also have to consider the amount of spell casters. Imagine charming a spiked chain fighter and using them against us their allies. Not to mention the fact that in Pathfinder almost every monster in the bestiary has a ranged attack.
I'm not sure I get the point of your post. Is it that you've been hearing a bunch of people claiming that the spiked chain is overpowered, and you're here to say they're wrong and it's fine?
No the point is that i've been pouring through post after post and not one person has stated the fact that a ranged attack is a good answer to some one who tries to use the "Perfect Spiked Chain Combo". Personally I GM for my players and since we have played 3.5 some of them were attached to the spiked chain and the way it was. If they want use it 3.5 style no big deal to me. It shouldn't be something so many people are hung up on. I've noticed many people say lunge is the answer for the nerfing, maybe if your a fighter, pally, or ranger but even then thats alot of levels to wait for your concept of an awesome chain fighter. I'm here to say the spiked chain is only as overpowered as you let it become. As a GM you are not bound by the rules of the game as they are inked if you thought the spiked chain was nerfed go with the old rules if you thought it was overpowered in 3.5 go with the new rule.

That is true of anything. As a DM i can always counter any option or tactic my players use. That doesnt mean it isn't in and of itself overpowered when compared to its contemporaries.

I can counter black tentackles with huge or bigger strong type monsters that doesnt mean it doesnt still have a leg up on the vast majority of 4th level spells (and many 5th level spells).

The 3.5 spiked chain was hands down better then every other weapon in the game. Just because a specific tactic could counter it doesn't mean it wasnt overpowered. Most people to my recollection were not worried about some 'perfect combo' but instead that the weapon itself represents an imbalance when compared to other weapons.


The spiked chain WAS better than other weapons, and it had a feat tax. The current spiked chain now is NOT WORTH THE FEAT. If it is a martial weapon, it'd be pretty cool, but no way in hell I'm spending a feat for a weapon that doesn't significantly help in my intended style (Lockdown).


What I don't understand is why nerf than practically bring it back in other weapons such as the bladed scarf? I don't see it as the ultimate weapon as 3.5 and thats just my opinon. It wasn't that imbalanced to me with or without trumping up the enemies. It required a feat to use it to its full potiential which even then to me was limited. Look at the Whip and the new feats introduced in Ultimate Combat. A whip is basically becoming the spiked chain. As far as the lower damage one of my players has decied to wield a large whip and take the higher damage due to two hands and size. Heck if I take two wep fighting and use two whips it is essentially the spiked chain especially with scoripian whips.


Mr Smiles wrote:
Okay folks I know there has been lots of discussion on the spiked chain. In my personal opinion I agree with those who say that the spiked chain was nerfed.

So you agree that the spiked Chain is worse now than the Heavy Flail. And it is because Heavy Flail is martial and the spiked Chain is exotic.

There is no reason anyone would ever want to use it now.

The issue is that they nerfed it too far. Taking away reach was the only thing that made it exotic. Why they didn't make it martial I don't get.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don´t like the whole exotiv weapons thing anyway.
In nearly all cases its not worth the feat.

Just so, there is the rope dart in ultimate combat and the equipment trick rope in pf society field guide what makes of some nice combinations if you have the feats for whips, weapon finesse, agile weapon enhancement.
You still have to burn two feats for exotic weapons though, if youre not a monk or a bard.

Dark Archive

They did take it from amazing to awful. They even have trip weapons with reach, and they deal d10 and aren't exotic.

They wanted to avoid being able to threaten close and far, but all things considering I think someone spending a feat on that is fine. Guy with a polearm and spiked gauntlets threatens near and far as well.


Mr Smiles wrote:
What I don't understand is why nerf than practically bring it back in other weapons such as the bladed scarf? I don't see it as the ultimate weapon as 3.5 and thats just my opinon. It wasn't that imbalanced to me with or without trumping up the enemies. It required a feat to use it to its full potiential which even then to me was limited. Look at the Whip and the new feats introduced in Ultimate Combat. A whip is basically becoming the spiked chain. As far as the lower damage one of my players has decied to wield a large whip and take the higher damage due to two hands and size. Heck if I take two wep fighting and use two whips it is essentially the spiked chain especially with scoripian whips.

Try the builds. You'll see that there was a small feat tax for a large benefit with the 3.5 spiked chain, and that there's a larger feat tax for a smaller benefit with, or example, whip feats.

Unfortunatly, the way d20 is written, weapons fall along a continuum of overall quality. Generally, the lowest end of that continuum are the weapons that never get used at all, or only get used by characters with limited choices and who never strike with weapons anyway. (Yes Wizard, I'm looking at you!)

In 3.5 the spiked chain fell at the far "good" end of that continuum, well outside the pack. That doesn't make someone wielding a spiked chain unbeatable, it just makes them better than a comparable character wielding a different weapon. If your players want to use the 3.5 spiked chain, and you think it would be fun too, let them.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I disagree that the spiked chain isn't worth a feat or is "worth less than the heavy flail."

It is both a disarm AND trip weapon, does above average damage (greater than a longsword), it two-handed, AND is finessable!

Those two last traits are what really make it stand out. It is one of the only two-handed finesse weapons in the game.

Shadow Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:

I disagree that the spiked chain isn't worth a feat or is "worth less than the heavy flail."

It is both a disarm AND trip weapon, does above average damage (greater than a longsword), it two-handed, AND is finessable!

Those two last traits are what really make it stand out. It is one of the only two-handed finesse weapons in the game.

but on a mechanical side the heavy flail is just better now, both are disarm and trip, both are two handed, one is a 1d10, the other is 2d4 and finessable, you can either go a strength fighter and only need to get combat expertise + you trip/disarm feat (5 feats) or you can go a dex fighter, spend an extra 3 feats (EWP(spiked chain), weapon finesse and agile maneuvers), be forced to get the agile weapon enchant, just to be effective, but not as good as the guy with the heavy flail(since he gets x1.5 strength, agile only gives you x1 even if you two hand it), who can very easily switch do a flail/shield if the extra AC is needed.

Infact the only thing the guy with the spiked chain has over the guy with the flail is that he has a higher touch AC and higher reflex.

I'd say that unless you want to use Cornugon Trip and Cornugon Shield with your spiked chain (which brings the feat tax to use the spiked chain effectively up to 5 feats) you are always better to go the heavy flail


Spiked chain need a feat. Take a polearm with trip ability, and use armor spike (or a 5 f step) when enemies are adiacent.
Not so overpowered...

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