I prefer a evil purple dragon that lives in the underdark and which breaths hallicunation gas.
Can we please just slow the rate of new dragons to a crawl?
We have metallics, chromatics, imperial, primal, drakes, linnorms, wyvern, gorynich, kongamoto, and so on.
How about some more literary critters:
Tero (Not sure the title, but they go hand in hand with the Derro)
HG Well's - Eloi, "Martians," beastmen (the Time Machine, War of the Worlds, and the Island of Dr. Moreau)
Any of MR James ghosts and creepies
the Mangani (from Tarzan)
Classic Planetary Romance monsters
ERB's - Banths, Tharks, Plantmen, Uliso, & Kaldane (John Carter of Mars)
The Hither and the Thither (Lt. Gullivar's Vacation)
ERB's - Tharban, Kanagan (Carson of Venus)
Borogroves, Mome Raths, Toves {including a slithy variant}, Chess Men, Tweedles, Prophetic Blue Catapillars, Rocking Horse flys, Dragon Flys {dragons six inches long, an exception to my no dragons request}, Snarks {with Boojum variant}(Alice In Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass, the Hunting of the Snark)
More Cryptids
The Su, Orang Pendak, Agogwe, Lake Monster (a la Nessie, Champ, Ogopogo, etc.)
You can use the Water Orm(Bestiary 2) stats foe nessie, ogopogo, and any other lake monster like them.
More Dragons
More Fey
More Alice and wonderland monsters
More space/sci-fi monsters
Aha, this together with some other hints form James seems to point to something like "Cryptids Revisited".
Not confirming or denying anything, but let me change my comment from "in a big way" to "in multiple ways."
Can't let the speculating be TOO easy.
Needs more cats. :)
And Sphinx, Lion-headed Agathions, Lamias, Awakened Lions, Awakened Housecats, Fey Cats, Catfolk, Cat-headed Rakshasa, and Silvanshee don't count. :P
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I'd like to see some new monsters that, although generic, would fit well on some of the other worlds in Paizo's Campaign Setting.
Or how about templates that help us convert critters to be weird analogues of "normal" monsters and thus potential native to, for example, "jungle" worlds, "desert" worlds or "winter" worlds? Basically a few templates to help GMs flesh out critters for Sword and Planet games would be nice. Ex: "tauric" creatures of Akiton or hydra-like dinosaurs of Castrovel. (I'm sure there are better ideas than mine!)
If that fails, I hope we'll see a 64-page bestiary supplement specifically for the various planets of Golarion's home solar system ("Monsters from the Distant Worlds").
Needs more cats. :)
I second this.
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Pathfinder is definitely on the right track with the fey. It's becoming a hallmark of the system.
Next bestiary should also have the sidhe.
The Sidhe should be the de facto lords of the fey. Filled with SLAs and supernatural powers of illusion and charm. Have them unable to speak an untrue word (which gives them a racial penalty of -4 to Bluff but does not mean they are not masters of deception) and Planar Shift to the land of the fey at will.
I'll accept that jackalopes and drop bears are rejected, but I do want to see some monsters that are on the whimsical side from folklore. (Look up bonnacon for a laugh).
Alice In Wonderland creatures are always appreciated, as are creatures from the Oz books.
Lastly, I appreciate more information the Tane.
Pathfinder is definitely on the right track with the fey. It's becoming a hallmark of the system.
Next bestiary should also have the sidhe.
The Sidhe should be the de facto lords of the fey. Filled with SLAs and supernatural powers of illusion and charm. Have them unable to speak an untrue word (which gives them a racial penalty of -4 to Bluff but does not mean they are not masters of deception) and Planar Shift to the land of the fey at will.
you don't means a +4 to bluff at least
hey hermes was the most dshoest god in te greeek pantheon and he swore never to lie to zeus| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Trying for some American folklore that's actually suited for a writeup:
The Gardinel, as featured in one of Manly Wade Wellman's Silver John stories. A monster the size of a house, that disguises itself as a house to lure people into its door-mouth. May have a symbiotic relationship with certain types of tiefling.
Can we please just slow the rate of new dragons to a crawl?
We have metallics, chromatics, imperial, primal, drakes, linnorms, wyvern, gorynich, kongamoto, and so on.
How about some more literary critters:
Tero (Not sure the title, but they go hand in hand with the Derro)
HG Well's - Eloi, "Martians," beastmen (the Time Machine, War of the Worlds, and the Island of Dr. Moreau)
Any of MR James ghosts and creepies
the Mangani (from Tarzan)Classic Planetary Romance monsters
ERB's - Banths, Tharks, Plantmen, Uliso, & Kaldane (John Carter of Mars)
The Hither and the Thither (Lt. Gullivar's Vacation)
ERB's - Tharban, Kanagan (Carson of Venus)Borogroves, Mome Raths, Toves {including a slithy variant}, Chess Men, Tweedles, Prophetic Blue Catapillars, Rocking Horse flys, Dragon Flys {dragons six inches long, an exception to my no dragons request}, Snarks {with Boojum variant}(Alice In Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass, the Hunting of the Snark)
More Cryptids
The Su, Orang Pendak, Agogwe, Lake Monster (a la Nessie, Champ, Ogopogo, etc.)
I agree with your anti-new-dragon way of thinking, the only problem is the Purple Dragon always was one of the only dragons (with shadow dragons, dragon turtles and crystal dragons) that I actually cared about... all the other dragons never appealed to me, especially the metallic dragons.
One thing I really fear is that all those Distant World creatures will get into bestairy 4...
One thing I don't want to happen is a book full of Githyanki, Giff and Alien-like creatures, Yithian does nicely on its own thank you!
I want the other worlds to be like in D&D, just aberrations and other strange creatures, but not Aliens, Humongous-hippopotamus-men-with-silly-guns and such impossible creatures...
The one thing i fear is those Distant World creatures will not get into Bestiary 4:)
Don't you extra terristial looking creatures because all alien means is it doen't belong in the environment/world/universe it is found. Also for the last time there will not be Githyanki, Giff, Githzeri, etc. because wizards owns them.
Aberrations are aliens...to Golarion unless they were created there.
More Dragons but no evil purple dragons.
No more Devils and Demons
More "Alien" creatures
More creatures from myth
More cryptids
Less humaniod Undead
I meant creatures that have the same meaning as Giff, creatures that belong into our own time for example.
Everything from Starjammer was silly, I hope we never see such silly creatures in pathfinder EVER. I don't want no humanoid elephants with militairy suits on that live on a strange planet and shoot with guns, or no space hamsters and other such non-funny humor, and living planets? Come on... Whales that act as space-transport? Don't make me laugh.
Guns are SO not for games with folklore, mythology and other such fantasy things in it.
I always disliked this in Final Fantasy games.. the mix of techical, futuristic things with mythology and fantasy is bad for me personally.
And I agreed with the anti-dragon, no more dragons in general, only a purple dragon and it should not be good as it would be a chromatic dragon, not a metallic.
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Has either of you seen the monsters in Distant Worlds? If not, why assume it's all Giffs (who are cool, by the way).
Because assuming makes it easier to shoot down other people's ideas you don't like, clearly ;)
I'd like aliens in the Bestiary 4, but with more of the treatment they gave Witchwyrds in the Bestiary 2. Strange, enigmatic extraterrestrials that can be dangerous and scary instead of cute and silly. Witchwyrds and akatas are pretty cool looking and I can see them go from there with some of the ideas. Remember, Distant Worlds is NOT Spelljammer. It's more like Edgar Rice Burroughs's John Carter of Mars or many of the Venusian fiction of the time periods. It's all the Sword and Planet genre of the early 1900's/late 1800's that delve more into the mysticism of space adventures and less of the Space Opera and modern science fiction you see nowadays.
What do you mean ether of us, I am all for creatures from Distant worlds.
I know it has nothing to do with spelljammer.
I like the older Final Fantasy games where it was a mix of fantasy and tech instead of mostkly tech that it has become. There was a balance in the older games.
I'd love to see some early 1900's Science fiction monsters get a write up too.
One thing I really fear is that all those Distant World creatures will get into bestairy 4...
Don't. Distant Worlds has some frickin' awesome monsters in it, and all will assuredly be considered if we do another Bestiary, but one of the thing that makes those creatures so cool are their ties to Golarion and the worlds beyond. Our hardcover Bestiary format precludes us from presenting much of that campaign-rich information, which would do a disservice to many of the creatures in that book. If something's really cool and stands well based on the strength of its rules alone, that makes it a strong contender for inclusion in a hardcover, but if a big part of what makes a monster cool is its place in the campaign setting, we're not going to strip that out and present a milk toast version just to fill a page (filling pages in Bestiary products is NEVER an issue).
Our hardcover Bestiaries are not "greatest hits" compilations. We want them to be awesome and have tons of neat stuff in them, but they afford us certain opportunities other books don't. Additionally, there will also always be plenty of fantastic creatures in Pathfinder AP and the campaign setting line that will never get picked up and reprinted. So monster lovers should be sure to keep their eyes on those lines, as the hardcover Bestiaries will never have all the cool monsters there are for Pathfinder, or even necessarily the full stories for the ones they do.
I'd love to see some early 1900's Science fiction monsters get a write up too.
Let's see your wishlist then! Links are always helpful too. ;)
When arranging creatures by where they come from I noticed it was overwhelmingly weighted towards European beasties. They're predominantly from Scandinavia, British Isles and Greece.
Bestiary by Region
So in order to better round out the different regions of the world I'd like to see is more monsters from non-European mythologies. The Americas seem especially neglected.
Next bestiary should also have the sidhe.
The Sidhe should be the de facto lords of the fey.
Very early on we chose to walk away from many past RPG's vision of the fey, specifically as it related to the sidhe. We just didn't want the hierarchies, courts, politicking, faux royalties, and pretentiousness you see in many RPG interpretations. The monsters themselves are cool, and any long time reader can likely point out a dozen examples of Gaelic creatures and inspirations in Pathfinder, but the idea of the fey (or even a group of the fey) as some sort of entitled, people of import, "fey folk" never sat well with me. (And, as a player, it always made me want to oppose them rather than aid them.)
Fortunately, from very early on, we had ideas for the First World and gnomes as being something inscrutable and even inhospitable to mortal most life. Eventually, in Pathfinder AP #36 Sutter came up with his awesome interpretation of the First World and its rulers, the Eldest, which set out the realm of the fey as a world of imagination, vibrancy, potential, savagery, and danger. We've eagerly adopted as being more in line with our ideas and desires for the fey, giving them a more primal pedigree and greater breadth of potential allegiances than what typically works out to the "good guys" vs "bad guys" split you get with sidhe courts.
So do expect more fey and even more Gaelic monsters and even more Gaelic fey. But do not expect the word "sidhe" to show up in Pathfinder products any time soon.
Lastly, I appreciate more information the Tane.
As for the Tane, here's another great example of us wanting to take our fey, their creations, and the First World in new directions. We've published stats for all of the Tane originally mentioned in Pathfinder #2. So, the trick now is how to naturally add more. I have no interest in just throwing three more big monsters into a Bestiary (a hardcover or AP Bestiary) and say "Oh yeah, these monsters you've never heard of, they're Tane too." It needs to come about more naturally than that. So, I share the hope that we get to learn more about the Tane and do more with them down the line, but that's a flower that needs to grow on its own.
So in order to better round out the different regions of the world I'd like to see is more monsters from non-European mythologies. The Americas seem especially neglected.
Any specific beasties on your monsters of the Americas wishlist?
Any specific beasties on your monsters of the Americas wishlist?
For the most part I don't even know what sort what sort of monsters they have. Which is kind of sad... but also an opportunity for introducing things most people have never heard of before. I'll have to do some research.
Any specific beasties on your monsters of the Americas wishlist?For the most part I don't even know what sort what sort of monsters they have. Which is kind of sad... but also an opportunity for introducing things most people have never heard of before. I'll have to do some research.
Do check it out, I'd love to hear what other people want to see from these mythologies. I personally find native South American and Inuit folklores to be some of the richest for direct myth-to-RPG American monster ports--though I've also always wanted to do something with the Hopi Kachina for a long time. Modern American cryptozoology and urban legends are also especially ripe, but you can find that stuff littered throughout the past five years of Pathfinder offerings.
We also haven't done much with the "Americas" analog on Golarion yet, which is why you haven't seen these myths plumbed en masse quite yet (unless you count Pathfinder AP #51).
More creatures from the positive energy plane, like the ravid, creatures made of positive energy, creatures that can channel positive energy, creatures that have n arua that grants it's allies fast healing, etc.
Creatures from the plane of time, creatures that can stop time, move through time like a fish through water, see into the future, speed of time, summon creatures from other time periods, etc.
More monsters with powers based on light or are made of light.
Creatures that use gravity as a weapon or are made of gravity.
More creatures made of crystal, creatures that can crystalize there victums, that can cause crystals to grow around them, etc.
Creatures made of energy but not fire, cold, electricity, acid.
Monsters with force baced abilities or are made of force.
More creatures that use sound as a weapon or are made of sound.
More creatures that are from the world of dreams but not all of them are evil.
More monsters from the astral and ethereal planes.
I got messed up and was brought on the wrong road by some guy on the internet saying that Distant Worlds was like Spacejammers, he probably got it wrong but I will soon see for myself.
As long as it aren't modern-time-monsters or gun-wielding-humanoids (like aliens-from-the-movies, Pale Strangers, living planets, flying whales and giffs) i'm fine with them.
There are no "Giff".
There are space whales(Oma).
There machine men that live on Aballon.
Some planets have technology.
Aliens from movies would be cool but those darn copyright laws;)
I mean monster LIKE the giff, not the giff itself, the giff is just my example on how a monster should NOT be.
Machine men and space whales are the things I have nightmares about, it would be a shame to have those in a bestiary which holds mostly creatures from mythology, folklore, cryptids and fantasy games/movies/books things...
Mechanics and technology (while also being fantasy) are the things I dislike, which is why I am so addicted to fantasy games/books/things to avoid those mechianical and technology things in the first place...
I don't mind a few in the bestiary 4, but a whole army of them would be a shame, I'd rather see only Jackalopes and Drop Bears in the bestiary as I find those less silly than machine men and whales which take you from planet to planet... :p
Also OMA?
Oma = Grandmother in dutch... which makes it extra silly for dutch people... :p
My top 10 wishlist at this time
1: Argus
2: Namazu
3: Bakeneko
4: Nine-Tail Fox (some kind of kitsune)
5: Long-Necked Woman
6: Drop Bear/zorbo/gravorg mutant
7: Lorelei
8: Mantis Monster (anything)
9: Dunkleosteus
10: Killer Bunny/Jackalope/Anything evil, bloodthirsty and rabbit
Any specific beasties on your monsters of the Americas wishlist?For the most part I don't even know what sort what sort of monsters they have. Which is kind of sad... but also an opportunity for introducing things most people have never heard of before. I'll have to do some research.Do check it out, I'd love to hear what other people want to see from these mythologies. I personally find native South American and Inuit folklores to be some of the richest for direct myth-to-RPG American monster ports--though I've also always wanted to do something with the Hopi Kachina for a long time. Modern American cryptozoology and urban legends are also especially ripe, but you can find that stuff littered throughout the past five years of Pathfinder offerings.
We also haven't done much with the "Americas" analog on Golarion yet, which is why you haven't seen these myths plumbed en masse quite yet (unless you count Pathfinder AP #50).
Admittedly, I think one issue with a lack of monsters from the Americas is that a lot of those stories and traditions were oral or sadly lost during the conquest of the continents. I am happy that we do have the amount we do and somewhere in this list is my Mesoamerican/Carribean wishlist of what I could find. Though, Mayans were really difficult for me to research.
My top 10 wishlist at this time
You'll be pleased to know that five of those are somewhere in the space between being text on my desk or headed back from the printer.
(I believe the creature you're looking for with number 5 is the yokai called a rokurokubi.)
Manly Wade Wellman's creatures. Especially the Gardinel. They'd do nicely in Arcadia, no?
Admittedly, I think one issue with a lack of monsters from the Americas is that a lot of those stories and traditions were oral or sadly lost during the conquest of the continents. I am happy that we do have the amount we do and somewhere in this list is my Mesoamerican/Carribean wishlist of what I could find. Though, Mayans were really difficult for me to research.
Quite true! There's also a matter of impact on the genre. Elves and dwarves and dragons are staples of fantasy fiction and the RPGs they inspired. Naguals and miqqiayuuq, not so much. Integrating creatures straight from mythologies that many readers don't consider part of the RPG tradition into Pathfinder is a tricky thing. Despite the number of awesome creatures it would include, I wouldn't currently suggest doing an entire product of all Native American monsters, for example, as I wouldn't expect it to sell well - despite the cool ideas within, there would be a certain subset of readers who would dismiss it as being outside of the knights and dragons (Tolkien-esque) experience they're trying to create with their games.
So that's another part of it. With nearly every monster the question gets asked "Is this something Conan/Gandalf/Elric/She-Ra/Van Helsing would fight?" If it is, well, it's passed challenge one. If it isn't, that doesn't necessarily exclude it, but at that point the creature has a bit more of a battle to prove itself a good fit for inclusion. This isn't a value judgment on the folklore or traditions of other cultures. Culturally significant stories and the characters/creatures within have a power, regardless of where they come from, but not all instantly and perfectly integrate into a game that, at its most basic level, is about knights killing dragons.
Manly Wade Wellman's creatures. Especially the Gardinel. They'd do nicely in Arcadia, no?
And that's the kind of link I'm looking for! Awesome! And is going to take some time to digest... wow. Good show E.M.L.!
Manly Wade Wellman's creatures. Especially the Gardinel. They'd do nicely in Arcadia, no?And that's the kind of link I'm looking for! Awesome! And is going to take some time to digest... wow. Good show E.M.L.!
Thanks! :)
Mind you, I'm not sure of the copyright status of Wellman's works. (I used to think the Gardinel was authentic American folklore, but apparently he created it whole.) I do know you guys have published his Silver John stuff, so there's a line of contact if nothing else.
Admittedly, I think one issue with a lack of monsters from the Americas is that a lot of those stories and traditions were oral or sadly lost during the conquest of the continents. I am happy that we do have the amount we do and somewhere in this list is my Mesoamerican/Carribean wishlist of what I could find. Though, Mayans were really difficult for me to research.Quite true! There's also a matter of impact on the genre. Elves and dwarves and dragons are staples of fantasy fiction and the RPGs they inspired. Naguals and miqqiayuuq, not so much. Integrating creatures straight from mythologies that many readers don't consider part of the RPG tradition into Pathfinder is a tricky thing. Despite the number of awesome creatures it would include, I wouldn't currently suggest doing an entire product of all Native American monsters, for example, as I wouldn't expect it to sell well - despite the cool ideas within, there would be a certain subset of readers who would dismiss it as being outside of the knights and dragons (Tolkien-esque) experience they're trying to create with their games.
So that's another part of it. With nearly every monster the question gets asked "Is this something Conan/Gandalf/Elric/She-Ra/Van Helsing would fight?" If it is, well, it's passed challenge one. If it isn't, that doesn't necessarily exclude it, but at that point the creature has a bit more of a battle to prove itself a good fit for inclusion. This isn't a value judgment on the folklore or traditions of other cultures. Culturally significant stories and the characters/creatures within have a power, regardless of where they come from, but not all instantly and perfectly integrate into a game that, at its most basic level, is about knights killing dragons.
Hopefully we can see a 'New World' AP (maybe with Kingmaker Kingdom ruls ;) ) that will give these creatures a chance to shine.
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Leanan Sidhe-A type of demonic femal fey that grants inspiration to bards and artists at the cost of their soul. Makes a great mastermind at the center of a cult or pulling the strings of some artistic and grotesque serial killer.
Dearg Due-An Irish vampire that combines elements of vampires and succubi. They appear as beautiful women to seduce men and drink their blood; then they turn them into mindless undead under the Dearg Due's control. They can only be defeated by building a pile of rocks over their graves and even then they are only trapped for one year.
Glaistig-A female fey similar to a saytr who adopts a village or family and then uses her enchanting song and other abilities to protect them from all harm. Of course her idea of harm and the mortals idea may differ and she often attacks strangers or visitors that are entirely benign.
Fuath-Evil male water spirits that kill men and then adopt their form to impregnate their wives so that they can propagate their race.
These are just a few examples of some Celtic monsters I have found and how they might be used. I have tried staying true to the original myth and only add material that would make them good monsters.
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For North American monsters, a few good ones stand out:
Black Tamanous were flesh eating spirits that wanted to destroy creation to defeat the primal spirits. I could envision them being tied to the gods and the Great Old Ones in some way.
Wakandagi Pezi is a deer antlered water serpent that destroys boats and people with bombs made of exploding water.
Mich-Pichoux is a massive tiger-like monster that dragged children back to it's lair to eat them.
Mishipzhiw has the features of an aquatic predatory cat, uses it's prehensile tail to catch it's prey, and had a series of spikes on it's back. It could also create storms to sink canoes and other vessels.
Whapperknocker is not really a scary monster, but it does have a funny name. :)
Hagondes is both the name of an ogere-like monster and an owl-like monster and by blending the two it would make a good shapechanging monstrous humanoid or fey in my mind.
I like all those monsters Apostle of Gygax except they already used the name Fuath for one the Gremlins but the idea is still cool.
I like the Gardenil sounds awesome wether it is a new creature entirely or just a more powerful type of mimic.
Tero (Not sure the title, but they go hand in hand with the Derro)
Pech, from whom derro are descended, are considered the "Tero" of Golarion.
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I like all those monsters Apostle of Gygax except they already used the name Fuath for one the Gremlins but the idea is still cool.
I was afraid of that. That is what I get for posting from class and not consulting PFSRD first.
Removed some posts and replies. Stop with the fighty bits, plz.
My top 10 wishlist at this time
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6: Drop Bear/zorbo/gravorg mutant
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10: Killer Bunny/Jackalope/Anything evil, bloodthirsty and rabbit
And you have the audacity to call the Giff silly? Yes, the giant-space hamsters were ridiculous, but they were pretty much the only super ridiculous critter in Spelljammer (well, maybe the Astrosphinx).
Momentary Threadjacking:
A large portion of Spelljammer material was at least inspired by renaissance era thinking on how the stars worked and space in general. Phlogistonic Aether (the phlogiston of Spelljammer) was Victorian "liquid heat" (not to be confused with Luminaferrous Aether, which was Victorian Dark Matter)
A race of mercenaries wielding primitive muskets and dragoon pistols is perfectly reasonable in a late-renaissance style fantasy setting. Not everyone plays a strict medieval fantasy setting (in fact no one I know does, most prefer a slightly later era).
And what is wrong with space whales (or space kraken, or sharks).
If they weren't IP I'd love to see in bestiary 4:
Krajen (Space-Squids based on Larry Niven's work)
Scavvers (Space Sharks)
GIFF!!
Neogi
Hadozee, Rastipeeds, Degleesh, and Syllex (The Star Frontiers aliens retro-fitted to D&D with the serial numbers filed off)
Reigar (Androgynous aliens)
Fraal, Weren, Ssesheyans, Aleerin, & T'sa (The Star*Drive Aliens)
Sorry for the rant, and I am tired of the vociferous hatred being directed at the Spelljammer setting. Was it to everyone's tastes, no, but that was the point. I'm not a big fan of Dark Sun or Greyhawk, and I absolutely hated the Forgotten Realms, but I have never taken the energy to bash them online, let alone to the extent that Spelljammer is getting abused by people on this forum.
End threadjacking.
I was never a big fan of Giff and Neogi but I wouldn't say no to them being in a pathfinder book, Bestiary or otherwise if they could.
Apostle of Gygax, the name of the Fuath was taken but the idea of the creature is interesting maybe there are other mythical creatures that could be used instead. I like the idea of a creature that kills some guy,turns into him to mate with his wife/girlfriend is still cool.
Some victorian style stuff would be niche that needs looking into.
Creatures from "Spirited away" and other Miazaki films would be cool.
Creatures based on things from Buffy the Vampire Slayer like the Mother Bezoar.
I can't remember the name of the movie the aliens in this movie were invisible and could enter peoples bodies and kill them then reanimate them like they puppets and basically using the enemy as there own troops. Once the host is "killed" leave the body start again. I did this by turning themselves into energy or gas, also they were vulnerble to sound, made them somewhat visible and killed them.