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How do you High Saving throw, HP and AC character?


Advice

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Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

I am interested in making a character that is a “rock”, or a “pebble that rolls along with t the “flow” of the water in a river. In other words I am looking to make a character with Saving throws as high as I can get them. A nice AC and good hit points are also desirable.

Using a 20 point build and the PFS rules for character creation, how might I go about doing this? In terms of character classes and feats?

Is this a multiple ability score dependent character build idea? Would I simply need to roll very well on ability scores if I was using that method?

Thanks.


Paladin with a tower shield and smite evil active?

Liberty's Edge Star Voter 2013

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I am interested in making a character that is a “rock”, or a “pebble that rolls along with t the “flow” of the water in a river. In other words I am looking to make a character with Saving throws as high as I can get them. A nice AC and good hit points are also desirable.

Using a 20 point build and the PFS rules for character creation, how might I go about doing this? In terms of character classes and feats?

Is this a multiple ability score dependent character build idea? Would I simply need to roll very well on ability scores if I was using that method?

Thanks.

Monk.

Particularly this one..

Shadow Lodge

Monk/Paladin/Fighter. If you can swing enough high scores, go unarmored. If not, full plate up and use the monk levels for saves.


Monk of the Sacred Mountain.


I see a number of recommendations for Monk on this thread, that seems like crazy-talk to me.

To get maximum Hp, AC and Saving throws, a Paladin/stalwart defender (PrC) will crush any Monk build on all 3 fronts.

Make him a halfling for an additional +1 to all saving throws and AC. His HP, AC and Saving throws will be excellent right from level 1 and will scale very well with level.

Your point buy would probably leave you with something like:

Halfing Paladin (after racial adjustments)

Str: 14(12) (5 pt)
Dex: 14(16) (5 pt)
Con: 14 (5 pt)
Int: 9 (-1 pt)
Wis: 7 (-4 pt)
Cha: 16(18) (10 pt)

Your first feat should be Toughness (level 1), followed by Dodge (level 3), and eventually Endurance (level 7). This will allow you to enter the "Stalwart Defender" PrC at level 8. Toughness and Dodge will also aid your AC and HP.

As for equipment, you will want Mithril Armor (eventually Plate) and a tower shield, favor Cha and Con for stat boost items.

Level 1: stats

HP: 13 (10 +1 toughness +2 con)
AC: 22 (+5 scale mail, +4 tower shield, +3 dex)
Fort: +9 (+2 base, +4 cha, +2 con, +1 luck)
Ref: +8 (+0 base, +4 cha, +3 dex, +1 luck)
Will: +5 (+2 base, +4 cha, -2 wis, +1 luck)


I'll add a vote for Monk. Be a dwarf and add Steel Soul (and maybe Ironhide).

Shadow Lodge

Treantmonk wrote:

I see a number of recommendations for Monk on this thread, that seems like crazy-talk to me.

Two levels of Monk of the Sacred Mountain will get you Toughness, a +1 natural armor bonus, and +3 to all saves.

Liberty's Edge

Half Elf Paladin. Your Reflex save will be lacking, but in reality that is the one save you can get away with caring least about.

Half Elf offers +2 saves against in enchantment (a lot of Will saves) and also you can trade out the skll focus for Dual Minded which is +2 against all Will saves.

Thanks to the Paladin Cha bonus to saves and the Paladin base saves against Will and Fortitude, plus a decent Con, your Fortitude will be high but your Will will be crazy.

Add in the trait that gives +1 Will, also the +1 Fortitude save and at lvl 4 you have crazy saves

Assuming stats of:
15 Str (16 at lvl 4)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 18 (16+2 racial)

Should give you saves of:
Fort: +4(Base)+2(Con)+4(Cha)+1(Trait) Total: +11
Reflex: +1(Base)+1(Dex)+4(Cha) Total: +6
Will: +4(base)+4(Cha)+1(Trait)+2(Half Elf)+2(Against Enchantment): +11/+13

That is before using any Feats on things like Iron Will, which leaves room to get feats for AC and HP if you want it, or Feats to do decent damage as you do have a Str of 16 so not bad (Pretty important as saves and AC and HP are useless if no monsters attack you because you are a non threat)

Personally, if going Paladin with high saves, I would forgoe worrying about AC and focus on more damage. You have HP and Lay on Hands to keep you healthy so take the hits for the team whilst being almost immune to the deadliest of magics. So forget AC feats or a shield and go with a 2h and Power Attack. As mentioned earlier, if you are no threat to the enemy then defense is worthless.

---------------
An alternative to the Half Elf would be Half Orc and you could replace Ferocity with a +1 to all saves. giving you
Fort: +12
Reflex: +7
Will: +10


Treantmonk wrote:


Level 2: stats

Fixed that for you :)

Scarab Sages

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I am interested in making a character that is a “rock”, or a “pebble that rolls along with t the “flow” of the water in a river. In other words I am looking to make a character with Saving throws as high as I can get them. A nice AC and good hit points are also desirable.

Using a 20 point build and the PFS rules for character creation, how might I go about doing this? In terms of character classes and feats?

Is this a multiple ability score dependent character build idea? Would I simply need to roll very well on ability scores if I was using that method?

Thanks.

Synthesist x / paladin 2 / oracle(lore) 1

or

Synthesist x / paladin 2 / monk 1


Paladin 2, Sorcerer (Draconic) 2, Ranger (Guide, Trapper) 1, Dragon Disciple 7

Lets you have great saves & AC without sacrificing the offense too much. Walk around in full plate and try to cast Shield spell before combats (don't worry about spell failure... if it fails just try again... or buy a wand later). Note that Sorc & DD levels give you +5 natural armor, since Sorc 2 + DD7 is enough to trigger draconic bloodlines level 9 power. Those things keep you in the AC fight with the others. Also DD will have access to better defensive spells also.

Base saves gained from classes:
Fort: 3 (pally) + 2 (ranger) + 4 (DD) = 9 (10 if you count in the DDs Con advancement)
Ref: 2 (ranger) + 2 (DD) = 4
Will: 3 (pally) + 3 (sorc) + 4 (DD) = 10

Straight Monk has Fort/Ref/Will +8 all, so the builds base saves will be on par with that. However the Cha bonus to all saves will get the build higher (even assuming the monk is a dwarf). The build trumps straight pallys or pally/Stalwart Defenders saves.

HPs: DDs 3 bonus feats can all be toughness + it gets +2 to Con. These will trump the loss of favored class bonuses (witch is always less or equal than toughness). However straight pally has effectively a lot more HPs, because of the exponential nature of Lay on hands.

For the attributes, I would go for Asteldian Caliskan's build or even more str focused, since the build will take care of the defense. However Treantmonk's build will get of course better saves & AC.

Lantern Lodge

Artanthos wrote:
ElyasRavenwood wrote:

I am interested in making a character that is a “rock”, or a “pebble that rolls along with t the “flow” of the water in a river. In other words I am looking to make a character with Saving throws as high as I can get them. A nice AC and good hit points are also desirable.

Using a 20 point build and the PFS rules for character creation, how might I go about doing this? In terms of character classes and feats?

Is this a multiple ability score dependent character build idea? Would I simply need to roll very well on ability scores if I was using that method?

Thanks.

Synthesist x / paladin 2 / oracle(lore) 1

or

Synthesist x / paladin 2 / monk 1

+1

The Paladin + Orcale (Lore or Nature, less so on Nature) will give you ridiculously high saves and AC. Only difference is Lore gives Reflex saves and Nature gives CMB instead.

With this set up each +1 mod in Cha gives you +1AC, +1Fort, +2Reflex and +1Will.

With a Tower shield and feats spend in each of the +2 to save. You can barely be touched. Low level spell will just FAIL to touch you.


Dwarf Cleic of Shelyn 12

Domains: Love & Luck

With Steel Soul feat the saves will be very, very good. Luck lets you reroll a fail witch is worth much. Those together (with good attribute focuses dwarf & cleric) will probably have you fail less saves than pally brother.

Ac will not be very high, although you can use full plate & shield (and dwarf gets bonus against giants); or keep range with glaive (Shelyns favored weapon). The trick here is to use love's powers to keep you protected from the attacks that need a hit roll. Love's power forces the attacker roll a will save against your cleric level/2 + 10 + wis ie. at par with your hardest spell or lose the attack action. No spell resistance, since its supernatural power. You can also apply it against ranged touch attacks (so very good against enemy wizards). The second power lets you try to smile to your humanoid opponent to force him not to attack you for a round, if you are low on hitpoints.

Characters usabilty is guaranteed even all feats going defensively, since you are a full caster.

Lets see:
Str: 14 (5)
Dex: 14 (5)
Con: 16 (5)
Int: 7 (-4)
Wis: 17 (7)
Cha: 10 (2)

Feats: Toughness, Steel Soul, Heavy Armor (aiming for Mithral Plate)...

Scarab Sages

This is a 5th level build (no gear), after 5th level I would personally just keep going synthesist for the stat increases, hit points and natural armor. Further evolutions can be split between offense, defense and utility in a balanced manner. Note: this build has evasion, and will eventually pick up improved evasion. That is a huge plus to survival. It also has excellent ac vs touch and while flat-footed.

I'm including both mage armor and shield into AC. At this level mage armor will have a 4 hour duration, shield can either be pre-cast or used in the first round. I've not included the bonuses to Smite evil.

Spoiler:

LG Human Synthesist 2/ Paladin 2/ Oracle(lore) 1
Init +; Senses Perception +
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 30, touch 24, flat-footed 22 (+6 NA, +4 mage armor, +5 charisma, +1 Dodge, +4 shield spell)
]b]Hp[/b] 60 (30(base) +7(toughness) +5(con) +18(eidolon))
Fort +11, Ref +13, Will +15
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
. . Claw(x2) +7 (1d4 +4/20/x2)
. . Bite +7 (1d6 +4/20/x2)

--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 19, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 20
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 19
Feats Toughness-1, Lightining Reflexes-1, Dodge-3, Great Fortitude-5,
Traits Deft Dodger, Magical Knack
Skills Spellcraft-5(+8), UMD-5(+13)
Languages Common
SQ Darkvision, Evasion, Fused Eidolon, Evasion, Sidestep Secret, Divine Grace, Smite Evil

--------------------
Evolutions
--------------------
Limbs(arms), Limbs(legs),Claws, Improved Natural Armor, Ability Increase(str), Bite


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My rules of thumb are

Good ac = 15 + level
Good HP = 8+ per level
Good saves = 5 + level

And I'm with Treantmonk on this. You can build a high defense monk, but you will end up with a monk who can ONLY defend, and therefore can be ignored.

Liberty's Edge

Treantmonk wrote:

Level 1: stats

HP: 13 (10 +1 toughness +2 con)
AC: 22 (+5 scale mail, +4 tower shield, +3 dex)
Fort: +9 (+2 base, +4 cha, +2 con, +1 luck)
Ref: +8 (+0 base, +4 cha, +3 dex, +1 luck)
Will: +5 (+2 base, +4 cha, -2 wis, +1 luck)

HP should be 15. Toughness gives +3 HP at level 1.


SigmaX0 wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:


Level 2: stats

Messed that up for you :)

Fixed that for you ;)

Shadow Lodge

TM, you can't add Cha bonus to saves at 1st level. Divine Grace comes at 2nd.


TOZ wrote:
TM, you can't add Cha bonus to saves at 1st level. Divine Grace comes at 2nd.

Ahhh...yep, my bad.

To make that level 2, add +1 to will and Fort saves, HP + 7.5 average.

rkraus2 wrote:

My rules of thumb are

Good ac = 15 + level
Good HP = 8+ per level
Good saves = 5 + level

And I'm with Treantmonk on this. You can build a high defense monk, but you will end up with a monk who can ONLY defend, and therefore can be ignored.

Consider my build at level 10 (Pal 8/Stalwart def 2) in defensive stance (defensive power: clear mind):

Feats: Toughness (1), Dodge (3), Two weapon fighting (5), Endurance (7), Improved Shield Bash (9)

Stat boosts: Cha (4), Cha (8)

Equip: (62,000 av wealth by level)
Mithril full plate +2 (13,650)
Tower shield +2 (4,180/+2,000(for bashing +1))
Ring of protection +2 (8,000)
Amulet of nat armor +2 (8,000)
Headband of Cha +2 (4,000)
Belt of Con +2 (4,000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4,000)

48,830 (still plenty for a decent main weapon and some other stuff)

HP:(115 temp)95 (9x5.5=50+30 con+10 tougness)(+20 in def stance)
AC:41 (10 +1 size +4 shield +2 enh +9 armor +2 enh +3 dex +4 dodge +2 def +2 nat +2 def stance)
Fort:+21 (base 7 +6 cha +2 res +1 luck +5 con)
Will:+16 (base 7 +6 cha +2 res +1 luck -2 wis +2 morale)
Ref:+17 (base 3 +6 cha +2 res +1 luck +3 dex +2 morale)

Offensively? Character uses Smite Evil + TWF for decent damage potential.

Defensively? In defensive stance, HP over 100, AC over 40, Saves range from +16-+21. When not in defensive stance, HP still 95, AC 39, Saves range from +14-+19, in addition, the character rerolls any failed will save.


Dwarf Inquisitor is also a good choice here. With Judgement, Shake It Off, Steel Soul, Domain & Stalwart (eventually) your saves will be top notch. AC also with Judgement, Magic vestments & Domain (possibly).


Cleric Dwarf with Protection/Luck Domain. or Paladin if you can get enough charisma to worth it.

But if you want very high saves, I think you can't avoid being a dwarf with Steel Soul. Should you be Paladin, Cleric, Monk or any other class.

Dwarven Inquisitor might also be an option. Stalwart is just awesome. (The Inquisitor ability, not the PrC) Even if the average saves might be lower, you will have the ability to completely avoid a lot of effect, which might be awesome.

Edit: Looking at it.
Inquisitor with Protection Domain and Purity Judgement is a really good option. If dwarf with steel soul, you can laugh.

Dark Archive

Whoa, glad Treat and I think along those same lines; without seeing this I posted almost the same pally in another thread (same stats anyway).

For the other thread I made the feats geared for doing damage (2 weapon style) and took Oath of Vengence and protection domain. Still had +10 (+14 fort) for saves and same AC.


Treantmonk wrote:
Stuff

Tower Shield can't be used for shield bash.

The Exchange

I'd strongly suggest not using a tower shield without the Tower Shield Proficiency Feat, since a -12 to attack rolls (-2 from using a tower shield at all, and -10 from armour check penalty + non-proficiency) makes you pretty much pointless as a combatant... Note that Paladins do not get Tower Shield Proficiency for 'free' (only Fighters and Warriors get that at level 1).


Also I think TM has counted defensive stance twice for AC. In dodge & explicitly otherwise.


ProfPotts wrote:
I'd strongly suggest not using a tower shield without the Tower Shield Proficiency Feat, since a -12 to attack rolls (-2 from using a tower shield at all, and -10 from armour check penalty + non-proficiency) makes you pretty much pointless as a combatant... Note that Paladins do not get Tower Shield Proficiency for 'free' (only Fighters and Warriors get that at level 1).

Stalwart Defender gets Tower Shield prof for free.

Scarab Sages

Secane wrote:
With a Tower shield and feats spend in each of the +2 to save. You can barely be touched. Low level spell will just FAIL to touch you.

Even the tower shield becomes irrelevant at higher level. The synthesist will pick up shielded meld at 4 and greater shielded meld at 12.

With 17 levels of synthesist, your also going to be looking at up to 24 points of natural armor and a 34 - 40+ strength(before items)

Dark Archive

Oath of Vengence two-weapon Sacred Servent Protect domain (@10)
Halfling
Str: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 7
Dex: 18 (20)
Con: 12 (14)
Chr: 20 (22)

+1 Agile Shortswords (8000)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9000)
Cracked Ioun Stone (4000)
Headband +2 Cha (4000)
Belt +2 (Dex/Con) (10000)
+2 Mithril Breastplate of Agility (7300)
Ring +1 (2000)
Amulet +1 (2000)
Shield +2 (with agile shield spike +1): 12000

+13 all saves (+6 Cha +3 Cloak +1 Ioun Stone +1 Halfling +2 Protection domain)
Fort: +21 Ref: +21 Will +14
AC: 30 (36 during his 8 daily smites)
HP: 94
1) Finessee 3) 2-weapon fighting 5) Pirannah Strike 7) Improved 2-weapon 9) Improved Shield bash

Attacks: +13 / +13 / +8 / +8 for d4 + 12 each (smite adds +6 to hit damage 8 times / day)

And good from 4-up; can trade in some of those smites for lay on hands to make his HP equivalent really good. Basically adding some offense to defensive turtle build.


Dwarf Inquisitor level 10 of Cayden Cailean (for Rapier :D)

Str: 15 (7) + 2 for levels = 17 (more defensive approach would go for Wis)
Dex: 14 (5)
Con: 16 (5)
Int: 12 (2)
Wis: 16 (5)
Cha: 5 (-4)

Feats:
1) Steel Soul, Domain Luck (or Love)
3) Heavy Armor prof, Shake it Off (bonus)
5) Dodge
6) Outflank (Bonus)
7) Toughness
9) Toughness, Precise Strike (Bonus)

Equip: (62,000 av wealth by level)
Mithril full plate (10,500)
Heavy shield (15)
Amulet of nat armor +2 (8,000)
Headband of Wis +2 (4,000)
Belt of Physical Perfection +2 (16,000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4,000)
Well kind of lazily spent :D

Spells:
1st) Shield of Faith, Divine Favor
2nd)
3rd) Heroism, Magic Vestment (Don't know about this since it only saves a bit money)

Saves (well yeah, Steel Soul, Judgement & heroism are counted here, but Shake it off is not):
Fort: 22 (7 base, 4 Con, 2 Resistance, 4 Steel Soul, 2 Heroism, 3 Judgement)
Ref: 17 (3 Base, 3 Dex, 2 Resistance, 4 Steel Soul, 2 Heroism, 3 Judgement)
Will: 22 (7 Base, 4 Wis, 2 Resistance, 4 Steel Soul, 2 Heroism, 3 Judgement)

AC: 37 (10 + 3 (Dex) + 11 (Armor with Magic Vestment) + 4 (Shield with Magic vestment) + 3 (Shield of Faith) + 3 Judgement + 2 natural Armor + 1 dodge)

HP: 118 (118,5)


Thalin wrote:
Oath of Vengence two-weapon Sacred Servent Protect domain (@10)

Protection domain gives resistance bonus, witch won't stack with cloak.

Silver Crusade

Treantmonk = Isn't the dexterity bonus limited by the tower shield to a maximum of +2 ?

Your guy has AC 41 by level 10, a monk can easily have 45 by level 12, and this is without using flowing monk with lots of menacing foes.


Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:
Stuff

Tower Shield can't be used for shield bash....

Also I think TM has counted defensive stance twice for AC. In dodge & explicitly otherwise.

Right you are on both counts, my mistake.

Don't tell one of the players in my group about not being able to bash with a tower shield!

In that case, I would recommend skipping Improved Shield bash and go for armor spikes instead for the TWF. Either that or reduce to a large shield.

I'm wondering if the defense could be improved by reducing Pally to a 2 level dip, then picking up 6 levels of fighter?

It would reduce offense, but allow for some extra feats, like shield focus, or free up some standard feats for Iron Will/Great Fortitude.

That would really be a judgement call, the 3 priorities would be improved, but the offensive reduction would be significant.


You can also go with a dwarven superstitous barbarian. It would be a slightly different barbarian build in that you go for a shield instead of the standard two handed weapon. And it takes a few levels to get going. As long as you have power attack, you will be good. Take your remaining feats of defense.

Dwarven war axe + large shield + superstitous is a good tank. + WS and CN help along with +2 to save vs. spells for a dwarf.

I have a half orc barbarian (with tatoo for +1 to saves) who is going this route and he is pretty fun!

Anyway, just to give you a different option than a panzy paladin!


Treantmonk wrote:

I see a number of recommendations for Monk on this thread, that seems like crazy-talk to me.

To get maximum Hp, AC and Saving throws, a Paladin/stalwart defender (PrC) will crush any Monk build on all 3 fronts.

Make him a halfling for an additional +1 to all saving throws and AC. His HP, AC and Saving throws will be excellent right from level 1 and will scale very well with level.

Your point buy would probably leave you with something like:

Halfing Paladin (after racial adjustments)

Str: 14(12) (5 pt)
Dex: 14(16) (5 pt)
Con: 14 (5 pt)
Int: 9 (-1 pt)
Wis: 7 (-4 pt)
Cha: 16(18) (10 pt)

Your first feat should be Toughness (level 1), followed by Dodge (level 3), and eventually Endurance (level 7). This will allow you to enter the "Stalwart Defender" PrC at level 8. Toughness and Dodge will also aid your AC and HP.

As for equipment, you will want Mithril Armor (eventually Plate) and a tower shield, favor Cha and Con for stat boost items.

Level 1: stats

HP: 13 (10 +1 toughness +2 con)
AC: 22 (+5 scale mail, +4 tower shield, +3 dex)
Fort: +9 (+2 base, +4 cha, +2 con, +1 luck)
Ref: +8 (+0 base, +4 cha, +3 dex, +1 luck)
Will: +5 (+2 base, +4 cha, -2 wis, +1 luck)

I think the holy vindicator is pretty good at getting a high AC also due to Vindicator's Shield, but I don't know how it interacts your build since PFS stops at level 12.

That ability does require a standard action to activate, but it does last for 24 hours or until the character is hit.
It is a first level ability and you only need one feat to enter the class so I would consider it at least.

Scarab Sages Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kerobelis wrote:


You can also go with a dwarven superstitous barbarian.

+1

Dwarf tankbarian is a fantastic survivor class. Your only problem will be too MANY good feat options. Extra rage power for rolling dodge or "just a flesh wound," or ironhide, or steel soul, or ironguts, or dodge, endurance, diehard...

Your fortitude saves will be unbeatable, the dwarven wisdom plus raging bonuses will make your will save quite impressive, and Reflex saves are usually traps or spells... so Hardiness + Superstition + trap sense means you shouldn't have too much trouble with them.

And lets not all forget the best thing ever about dwarven tankbarians.... 30' move speed in medium armor! (+10 base for fast movement, not slowed by armor for dwarfiness)


Treantmonk wrote:
TOZ wrote:
TM, you can't add Cha bonus to saves at 1st level. Divine Grace comes at 2nd.

Ahhh...yep, my bad.

To make that level 2, add +1 to will and Fort saves, HP + 7.5 average.

rkraus2 wrote:

My rules of thumb are

Good ac = 15 + level
Good HP = 8+ per level
Good saves = 5 + level

And I'm with Treantmonk on this. You can build a high defense monk, but you will end up with a monk who can ONLY defend, and therefore can be ignored.

Consider my build at level 10 (Pal 8/Stalwart def 2) in defensive stance (defensive power: clear mind):

Feats: Toughness (1), Dodge (3), Two weapon fighting (5), Endurance (7), Improved Shield Bash (9)

Stat boosts: Cha (4), Cha (8)

Equip: (62,000 av wealth by level)
Mithril full plate +2 (13,650)
Tower shield +2 (4,180/+2,000(for bashing +1))
Ring of protection +2 (8,000)
Amulet of nat armor +2 (8,000)
Headband of Cha +2 (4,000)
Belt of Con +2 (4,000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4,000)

48,830 (still plenty for a decent main weapon and some other stuff)

HP:(115 temp)95 (9x5.5=50+30 con+10 tougness)(+20 in def stance)
AC:41 (10 +1 size +4 shield +2 enh +9 armor +2 enh +3 dex +4 dodge +2 def +2 nat +2 def stance)
Fort:+21 (base 7 +6 cha +2 res +1 luck +5 con)
Will:+16 (base 7 +6 cha +2 res +1 luck -2 wis +2 morale)
Ref:+17 (base 3 +6 cha +2 res +1 luck +3 dex +2 morale)

Offensively? Character uses Smite Evil + TWF for decent damage potential.

Defensively? In defensive stance, HP over 100, AC over 40, Saves range from +16-+21. When not in defensive stance, HP still 95, AC 39, Saves range from +14-+19, in addition, the character rerolls any failed will save.

Drop Shield Bash since you can't bash with a tower shield. Take Alignment Channel or Elemental Channel to get into the holy vindicator class, and you get a +4 bonus to AC. You might get hit, but most likely not considering the AC the class already has. If the GM gets lucky and rolls a nat 20. Turn it on again, if you thing you need it.

Of course you could just downgrade to a heavy shield so you can keep the shield bash feat, take the channel(Alignment Channel or Elemental Channel) feat at 11, and pick up the holy vindicator at level 12, for another 4AC if you think you need it.

Dark Archive

Dwarven Maneuver Master (10)

Str: 7 int: 7 Wis: 18 (22) Dex: 20 (24) Con: 16 Chr: 5

1) Agile Manuevers, Combat Reflexes 2) Improved Trip 3) Weapon Finesse
5) Bodyguard 6) Greater Improved Trip 7) Combat Patrol 9) Pirannah Strike

Amulet of Agility (5000)
Headband +4 (16000)
Belt +4 (16000)
Pearl of power 1 (1000) - hands off to get Mage armor
+3 Cloak, Cracked Stone (13000)
+2 Ring (8000)
HP: 83
AC: 28 (32 if you can get mage armor). 36 if you want to Ki here instead of attack
Saves: Will +21 Ref: +22 Fort: +18, -4 if steely soul does not apply
Attacks at +15 / +15 / +15 / +10 / +10, usually attempting to trip (CMB +21) and AOO on ground, then finish attacks.. Damage d10+11 per attack.


Dwarf Magus (kensai) 2, Alchemist (Vivisectionist, Internal alchemist) 1, Barbarian 7 (Urban, Brutal Pugilist)

Str: 7 (-4)
Dex: 17 (13) + 2 for levels = 19
Con: 16 (5)
Int: 14 (5)
Wis: 16 (5)
Cha: 5 (-4)

Feats:
1) Weapon Finesse(barb)
2) Weapon Focus Scimitar (kensai)
3) Scimitar Dance (kensai)
4) (vivisectionist)
5) Superstition (Rage) (barb), Steel Soul
7) Lesser Beast totem, Dodge
9) Beast Totem, Toughness

Ring of protection +2 (8,000)
Amulet of nat armor +2 (8,000)
Belt of Dex +4 (16000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4,000)

Saves:
Fort: 22 (10 base, 4 Steel Soul, 3 Superstition, 3 Con, 2 Resistance)
Ref: 23 (4 base, 10 Dex, 4 Steel Soul, 3 Superstition, 2 Resistance)
Will: 17 (5 Base, 3 Wis, 4 Steel Soul, 3 Superstition, 2 Resistance)

AC: 39 (10 Base + 10 Dex + 2 Int + 4 Mage Armor + 4 Shield Spell + 2 Deflection + 2 Natural Armor (Beast Totem) + 2 Enchantment bonus to Natural Armor + 2 Alchemical Bonus to natural Armor +1 Dodge)

HP: 111,5


Or "better" (at least in saves / AC department):

Multiclass monster:

Dwarf Magus (kensai) 2, Alchemist (vivisectionist, internal alchemist) 1, Barbarian 6 (Urban, Brutal Pugilist), Monk (martial Artist) 1

Str: 7 (-4)
Dex: 17 (13) + 2 for levels = 19
Con: 16 (5)
Int: 14 (5)
Wis: 16 (5)
Cha: 5 (-4)

Feats:
1) Weapon Finesse,(barb)
2) Weapon Focus Scimitar (kensai)
3) Scimitar Dance (kensai)
4) (vivisectionist)
5) Steel Soul, Dodge (Monk)
6) Superstition (Rage) (barb), Toughness
8) Lesser Beast totem
10) Beast Totem Toughness

Ring of protection +2 (8,000)
Amulet of nat armor +2 (8,000)
Belt of Dex +4 (16000)
Cloak of resistance +2 (4,000)
Headband of Wisdom +2 (4000)

Saves:
Fort: 24 (12 base, 4 Steel Soul, 3 Superstition, 3 Con, 2 Resistance)
Ref: 25 (6 base, 10 Dex, 4 Steel Soul, 3 Superstition, 2 Resistance)
Will: 20 (7 Base, 4 Wis, 4 Steel Soul, 3 Superstition, 2 Resistance)

AC: 43 (10 Base + 10 Dex + 2 Int + 4 Mage Armor + 4 Shield Spell + 2 Deflection + 2 Natural Armor (Beast Totem) + 2 Enchantment bonus to Natural Armor + 2 Alchemical Bonus to natural Armor + 1 Dodge, + 4 Wis)

HP: 118,5

Silver Crusade

Dwarf
Paladin 3 / Rogue 2 / Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist) 7(PFSP level cap 12)
Str 16 (10)
Dex 12 (2)
Con 16 (5)
Int 10
Wis 10 (-2)
Cha 12 (5)

Dwarf : +Con, + save vs spells
Paladin : + Cha mod to saves, immune to fear, immune to diease
Rogue : Evason (Light Armor + Tower Sheild)
Fighter : HP and combat abilitys.

Yes with a chain shirt you are 5 points lower then full plate on your AC. The question is it worth doing to have evasion. More often then not it is.

<Edit : Did the point buy wrong>

Dark Archive

Half elf Synthasit 7 / Pal 2 / Oracle of Lore (1)

Str: 7
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Dex: 7
Con: 7 (11)
Chr: 22 (26)

After merge (Bipedal)
Str: 22
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 18 (22)
Chr: 26
+4 for items (saves)
+2 Ring
+4 Cha item
+4 Con Item

Evolutions include +4 Improved Armor, +4 Con, +4 Str
oracle grants Cha as AC.

So AC: 42 - 10 +8 (Cha) +12 (Natural) +4 (Shield) +2 (Deflection) +4 (Mage Armor) +2 (merged)
Will: +6 +8 +4 +2 +2 +3 = +25
Fort: +2 +3 +2 +8 +4 +2 +6 = +27
Ref: +8 +2 +8 +4 +2 = +24
HP: 122 + the Eidilon's HP as temporary
And you're a combat badass anyway :).


Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Dwarf Inquisitor is also a good choice here. With Judgement, Shake It Off, Steel Soul, Domain & Stalwart (eventually) your saves will be top notch. AC also with Judgement, Magic vestments & Domain (possibly).

I would second this. The inquisitor also gets Heroism on their spell list, which is a +2 morale bonus to all saves. With judgement + heroism alone is a +5 to all saves at level 10. Shake it off + Solo Tactics can be up to a +4 to all saves, and it stacks with everything.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As various builds in-thread demonstrate, there are many ways to build some serious untouchables. I think the "cleanest" builds are single-class builds; and for that the monk is probably the best.

A master of many styles focusing on Crane, Snapping Turtle and Snake make a very clean way of having great AC and high impenetrability.

Without going overboard on min-max stats at level 10, and PFS legal:

Str 10
Dex 22 (16 + 2 racial + 1 level + 1 level + 2 item)
Con 16 (14 + 2 item)
Int 10
Wis 16 (14 + 2 item)
Cha 10

human - dodge
level 1 crane style, snake style (bonus)
level 2 snake fang (bonus, skip step "2" in the snake style)
level 3 weapon finesse
level 4 (drop slowfall to gain barkskin)
level 5 crane wing
level 6 snapping turtle style
level 7 crane riposte
level 8
level 9 combat reflexes
level 10 snapping turtle shell

    equipment
  • agile amulet (5000)
  • belt of dex&con +2 (10000)
  • headband of wis +2 (4000)
  • ring of proc +2 (8000)
  • monk's robe (13000)
  • cloak of resistance +4 (16000)
  • 20x potions of mage armor (1000)
  • dusty ioun stone (5000)

AC 43 4armor 3wis 3monk 6dex 4ki-natural 2deflect 1dodge 2shield 3defensive 4ki-dodge 1insight
flat 29
touch 33
CMD 40

fort 13
reflex 16
will 13

The best part is that 43 AC means you get missed a lot - and each time an attack misses you, you get an AOO. And if they *do* hit, you can Crane Wing/Riposte them in the face.

Combine with Sacred Mountain for free Toughness if you need to.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Thank you all for your advice so far. I haven't had time to read the thread entirely yet, so I'm going to get started.

halfling paladin...hmmm who would have thought of one.


Thalin wrote:
So AC: 42 - 10 +8 (Cha) +12 (Natural) +4 (Shield) +2 (Deflection) +4 (Mage Armor) +2 (merged)

The Merge bonus is shield bonus & won't stack with shield spell.

Thalin wrote:
And you're a combat badass anyway :).

In saves & AC department multiclassed synthesis does very well. The problem being that multiclassed synthesis isn't as good combat monster as it originally seems (looking at the attributes). That is because the Synthesis gets Eidolons BAB. So a the 10th level it will be 6. So the synthesis attack bonus will be +6 str + 6 BAB = 12. Hard to improve much, since Amulet is so expensive. Large keeps the synthesis somewhat in the game, but the multiclassed one gets it at the level 10 witch is kind of late in a 12 level sprint (PFS). Same goes for spell casting... So basically paladin & oracle don't give any boost (except smite once per day) for the synthesis attack abilities (Spells or BAB or synthesis attributes or evolutions). So the char has 3 levels witch give no attack power at all witch is devastating at the start. CMB & CMD also lag badly.


Riku Riekkinen wrote:

Dwarf Inquisitor level 10 of Cayden Cailean (for Rapier :D)

Do an inquisitor of Sarenrae.

You can drop your strength to 10, and go weapon finesse + dervish dance. Drop the heavy armor profiency, and use mithril breastplate. You end up with a higher reflex save, as well as more damage. You only lose about 3 points of AC.

Alternately, go archer inquisitor.

Spoiler:

Str: 10 (0)
Dex: 16 (10) + 2 for levels +2 belt = 20
Con: 16 (5) + 2 belt = 18
Int: 12 (2)
Wis: 16 (5) + 2 headband = 18
Cha: 6 (-2)

Feats:
1) Steel Soul, Domain Luck (or Love)
3) Weapon Finesse, Shake it Off (bonus)
5) Dervish Dance
6) Outflank (Bonus)
7) Dodge
9) Toughness, Precise Strike (Bonus)

Equip: (62,000 av wealth by level)
+1 scimitar (2300) (use spells like Weapon of Awe and Bane ability to improve this)
Mithril Breastplate +3 (13150)
Amulet of nat armor +3 (16,000)
Headband of Wis +2 (4,000)
Belt of Physical Might Dex/Con +2 (10,000)
Cloak of resistance +4 (16,000)

Spells:
1st) Shield of Faith, Divine Favor
2nd) Weapon of Awe
3rd) Heroism

Attack +19/+14 - +7(BAB) +5 (Dex) +3 (Enhancement with bane) +2(Heroism) +3(Divine Favor)
Damage 3d6 + 14 - 1d6 + 5 (Dex) + 3(Enhance with bane) +2d6(bane) +3 (Divine Favor) +2 (Weapon of Awe)

Saves (Steel Soul, Judgement & heroism are counted here):
Fort: 24 (7 base, 4 Con, 4 Resistance, 4 Steel Soul, 2 Heroism, 3 Judgement)
Ref: 21 (3 Base, 5 Dex, 4 Resistance, 4 Steel Soul, 2 Heroism, 3 Judgement)
Will: 24 (7 Base, 4 Wis, 4 Resistance, 4 Steel Soul, 2 Heroism, 3 Judgement)

Shake it off with Solo Tactics is a +1 for each adjacent ally up to a +4. If you can find a way to summon monsters, then this would be a constant bonus.

AC: 34 (10 + 5 (Dex) + 9 (Armor) + 3 (Shield of Faith) + 3 Judgement + 3 natural Armor + 1 dodge)

HP: 108


celestial armor is better than mithral breastplate -- and cheaper for what you get too.

Scarab Sages

Riku Riekkinen wrote:
Thalin wrote:
So AC: 42 - 10 +8 (Cha) +12 (Natural) +4 (Shield) +2 (Deflection) +4 (Mage Armor) +2 (merged)

The Merge bonus is shield bonus & won't stack with shield spell.

Thalin wrote:
And you're a combat badass anyway :).
In saves & AC department multiclassed synthesis does very well. The problem being that multiclassed synthesis isn't as good combat monster as it originally seems (looking at the attributes). That is because the Synthesis gets Eidolons BAB. So a the 10th level it will be 6. So the synthesis attack bonus will be +6 str + 6 BAB = 12. Hard to improve much, since Amulet is so expensive. Large keeps the synthesis somewhat in the game, but the multiclassed one gets it at the level 10 witch is kind of late in a 12 level sprint (PFS). Same goes for spell casting... So basically paladin & oracle don't give any boost (except smite once per day) for the synthesis attack abilities (Spells or BAB or synthesis attributes or evolutions). So the char has 3 levels witch give no attack power at all witch is devastating at the start. CMB & CMD also lag badly.

I've never believed the synthesist to be an optimal choice for combat monster. Other choices, including standard summoner are better.

What the synthesist excels at is defense.

Something to consider. Don't burn your evolution points on Large. That's what Evolution Surge is for. You're better off spending the points elsewhere.

Also: A level 10 synthesist has an 8 BAB, not 6. So does a Synthesist 7 / Paladin 2 / Oracle 1.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Thank you all for your posts,

I suppose for me the two most appealing builds are the halfling paladin/ Dwarven defender (oops i guess its now a stalwart Defender) of Treantmonk, Im thinking tower shield with a nice military pick,

and also appreciate Lormasters comment about a clean 1 class build.

I will have to look up what these styles are in the ultimate combat.

I like his monk with master of many styles. that Crane wing/ Riptose strike seems like fun. I like the idea of being able to smack someone if they miss.

I seem to remember in the oriental adventures book two feets, Defensive strike and Karmic strike, now i don't remember the entire details, but on allowed you i think make an attack of opportunity if they missed, and Karmic strike i think allowed you to make an attack of opportunity if they hit you. I may have gotten it wrong.

Ruku and Artanthos, im afraid im not familiar with your suggestions. What is a synthesist?

And thank you all for your suggestions

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