Wizard - permanent spell plus ability or armor spell AND weapon focus for touch attack


Advice


The wizard player in my group has dived deep into the rules and started coming up with some interesting things he wants to do. Now I'm kind of a "Why yes, you can" sort of GM, But I like to find a twist to make it not quite the panacea a player had imagined.

What he wants to do:

weapon focus his touch attacks (shocking grasp and the like) I'm not really seeing a reason why not. he gets a small bonus to his touch attacks. But I'm a bit hesitant because a touch attack already gets a lowered armor class DC. Thoughts?


There was a weapon focus(ray) for ranged touch attacks in 3.5. I see no problem with a similar feat for normal touch attacks.

Liberty's Edge

I don't see a problem with it, he's taking a feat that encourages him to be in melee. If that isn't non-panacea enough, I don't know what is.


I'd let him, it'd give him more incentive to use some of those rarely used spells, and since wizards don't have good BAB or melee bonuses it'd help him versus high dex-based AC enemies.


Thanks gents, that was kind of my gut feeling.

This one is a bit more grey:

He wants to find a higher level wizard and pay him to cast a permanency on some non-standard permanent eligible spells. Things like Cat's Grace and Mage Armor.

My instinct says that the rules have an abbreviated list for a reason. And if he manages a +4 to one ability, why not others? Why not the entire party?

On the other hand, I'm thinking that as GM, I can just upscale the challenges. Or I can make the "permanence" not entirely permanent, causing them to spend wads of cash and time maintaining that bonus. Or have a rather large risk of the spell going awry in addition to having to find a really high level caster who is even willing to try. I wouldnt mind some unknown drawback that reveals itself later that encourages the removal of that spell, but I'm at a loss as to what that might be.


Well, he'd have to pay the wizard the research costs to create a permanence-able version of the spell, and some sort of incentive for spending the time doing so, as well as the cost of both spells after, and it's lost on a successful dispel.
If you allow it at all. If it's going to be only supressed instead of destroyed by dispel, then the cost to permanence should be equal to the price of a slotless item of that effect.

Grand Lodge

zerhackermann wrote:


My instinct says that the rules have an abbreviated list for a reason. And if he manages a +4 to one ability, why not others? Why not the entire party?

Yep, thats why they have items that do those things.


Quote:
weapon focus his touch attacks (shocking grasp and the like)

You can absolutely do Weapon Focus{Touch}. Technically speaking, a melee touch attack is considered an "armed" unarmed strike, so even if you were uneasy about doing Weapon Focus{Touch}, you could do Weapon Focus{Unarmed Strike} to gain the same benefit.

Cult of Vorg wrote:

Well, he'd have to pay the wizard the research costs to create a permanence-able version of the spell, and some sort of incentive for spending the time doing so, as well as the cost of both spells after, and it's lost on a successful dispel.

If you allow it at all. If it's going to be only supressed instead of destroyed by dispel, then the cost to permanence should be equal to the price of a slotless item of that effect.

^This^ Not every spell can be made permanent, so a custom spell would have to be researched.

That said, Permanency is a level 5 spell, which can be found for spellcasting services in any settlement of the Large Town size and up.

Spellcasting services cost {Caster Level X Spell Level X 10}, so in this case... 9 X 5 X 10 = 450 GP. However, you must also pay for the material components of the spell. If you refer to the Permanency spell, you'll see a chart of what existing spells cost. If you really wanted to attempt to invent a spell, you would need to also reverse-engineer the material cost formula to determine how much this would cost.


Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm kind of thinking of going the "Yes, but..." route and it being more expensive and risky to research and create a new spell (Lots of trial and error, lots of cost) as opposed to searching for or commissioning an item (that can be lost or damaged, heh) that achieves nearly the same thing. (hello, side quest...)


zerhackermann wrote:

Thanks for the thoughts.

I'm kind of thinking of going the "Yes, but..." route and it being more expensive and risky to research and create a new spell (Lots of trial and error, lots of cost) as opposed to searching for or commissioning an item (that can be lost or damaged, heh) that achieves nearly the same thing. (hello, side quest...)

I forgot to mention this before...

Cat's Grace is used in the creation of the Wondrous Item, "Belt of Incredible Dexterity", which, for all intents and purposes, is an item that has Cat's Grace permanently cast on it. If I were a DM, I would honestly not allow a player to permanently cast an enhancement bonus on himself/herself. If you want to bump a stat, you have to use one of the Tomes (requiring a Wish/Miracle spell to create).

As far as the Mage Armor spell goes... if you really want to, give him a side-quest/personal quest that rewards him with a 1/day Mage Armor spell at his highest CL. Again, if I were a DM I probably wouldn't do this until he was high enough level to take the Minor Spell Expertise feat.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

In addition to what's already been mentioned, don't forget that a permanent spell still has a duration of permanent, and therefore is subject to dispel magic. In the long run, it's much cheaper to make magic items, so you don't have to worry about all of your permanent spells going away.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I absolutely love it when players step outside the prescribed rules and give you a chance to think on your feet like this as a GM. Some things that pop to mind regarding stat permanency:

The only person willing to try this "experimental procedure" is completely mad, does all sorts of human testing. Maybe is responsible for the creation of Owlbears or something equally horrible. The experiment involves the acquisition of living specimens or rare items. Then, at the end of the quest-portion, have him roll some dice (players love this more than I can understand, but adding some randomness to their outcomes seems to thrill them. I'd recommend something like 1d6-2, so he can't get more than the optimum (the spell took, huzzah) but he also risks expending all his money for no benefit or even a possible -1.

Another choice, go legendary. Fluff-wise it can have that Ponce De Leon flavor, maybe a long boat trip to Hermea to unlock his "hidden potential" or a search through the Mwangi for a tribe of true Azlanti still living in a lost city. Maybe at the heart of the Eye of Abendego, the top of Gallowspire, or kept in a music box in the vaults of Erebus is the secret to this transformation he seeks... but in the end just give him the ability to essentially use an alchemist mutagen without the natural armor. +4 dex -2 int as a standard, either by drinking a secret elixir, rubbing a magic gem, invoking a True Name, calling on his spirit animal, what have you.


Oh, by all means, sell him permanent cat's grace. Along with a bag of magic beans and the deeds to the Irespan.


yes, YESSSS. good ideas. I like them. The mad warlock of mummenschantz would love to have a subject for experimentation....


zerhackermann wrote:

yes, YESSSS. good ideas. I like them. The mad warlock of mummenschantz would love to have a subject for experimentation....

That guy's a good friend of mine.

Liberty's Edge

Next adventure, the PCs "bust" an inept pickpocket who immediately starts sobbing about how they wouldn't have stood a chance versus his amazing skills but for his now-lost Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4...currently resting on top of a dragon's hoard in yonder mountains.

"It had Permanent Cat's Grace built right in!"

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