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I roll out in the open as a GM, but I have very hard to read dice. I think it sets a good precedent to roll out in the open. Also, having unreadable dice makes it so those crits I get while GMing First Steps, Part II don't exist when I have a table full of new PFS players and their cleric is about to die in the very first combat.
/No joke. That happened at Dragon*Con.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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My experience has been almost entirely open-rolling. My local VC even uses one of those "crit dice" that flashes lights at you when it lands on the 20. Interestingly, that same VC will roll your Sense Motives for you by asking for your bonus and rolling in secret - he feels that Sense Motive is one of the hardest checks not to metagame with, even if you're trying pretty hard.
My thought assumption has always been that GMs will roll in the open either because they don't want to hassle with a screen (my main reason - I don't even have one) or because they want a sense of shared excitement as everyone waits to see if the BBEG's attack lands on a 20 or not.
Even so, I don't find it too jarring if rolls are hidden, if I trust the GM (I usually do - my local GMs are pretty good folks).
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I roll out in the open as a GM, but I have very hard to read dice. I think it sets a good precedent to roll out in the open. Also, having unreadable dice makes it so those crits I get while GMing First Steps, Part II don't exist when I have a table full of new PFS players and their cleric is about to die in the very first combat.
/No joke. That happened at Dragon*Con.
Funny you should mention clerics and first steps - I just played through them on Saturday, and (maybe even in Part II, I'm not sure) the cleric got hit with Claw/Claw/Bite, and it came out as Hit/Crit/Hit. Fun times. :D
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I don't tend to fudge rolls when I GM a roleplaying game, very occassionally I might to keep a character alive from phenomenally bad luck but personally I don't like doing that (this is why I prefer games with Hero / Action / Drama / Fate points so there is an agreed structure and limit to how the dice can be fudged).
I personally for PFS don't fudge rolls but may roll behind the screen if it is positioned in front of me - simply the fact that it would be awkward to do otherwise - if I get a really odd result that I think some players may be dubious about I can lift the screen to show the dice result.
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I tend to do open rolling for about 90% of all rolls. The major exceptions are trap-finding perception checks (respectable metagame factor), sense motive checks (strong metagame factor), a few out of combat charms and compulsions (respectable metagame factor, and it makes for some hilarious role-playing), and the occasional series of damage rolls (in case I'm trying to help a very low level group not die to an early critical hit).
Most everything else is out in the open.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Always in the open. Everything.
It accomplishes two things: tension and trust.
If you have to "fudge" it's very easy to have the bad guy start fighting defensively or actually use that Combat Expertise feat that is listed in his stat block. Other bad guys can start to Aid Another, leaving only one doing the actual attacking. That way you're actually using the rules to cut your numbers rather than just calling random stuff from behind a screen.
However, I rarely find I have to do that to keep people in the game. They do a very good job of handling that themselves because they can see I roll in the open, and they take steps to win when they see how far the odds might be stacked against/for them.
ATM I'm DMing PbP only (though have done my share of tabletop DM'ing).
I was conversing with one of my players the other day and lamenting the fact that on our PbP I've set a standard to rolling everything open.
I appreciate "trust" as a factor for open rolling, but trust goes beyond the die roll. If you, as the DM, see the game as a battle between two teams: The DM/NPC team and the PC team, there are already trust issues there.
I find as a DM there are just times where die rolls are NOT appropriate. Getting to the final encounter in a module after a year of PbP play and having die rolls make it all go wrong is no fun for anyone...not the DM interested in telling the story, not the Players who've worked for months to get to that point. I appreciate tension in the game, but there are just times where it's BETTER for a story for a die roll to be a success...or a failure...at these times it's better if die rolls are being kept hidden.
Regarding having the bad guys start fighting defensively or using "aid another" or something to cut back on numbers seems almost as "fudged" than hand waving a bad roll...
"Nanoc the Evil Barbarian slices into you with his two handed sword for 17 damage, leaving you with 2 hit points."
"Nanoc is afraid that your battered, bruised, hardly able to move, one foot in the grave form is going to hurt him with your short sword, so he takes a 5 foot step back and goes to aid another, leaving you standing there wondering why he didn't take your head off this round!"
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There's no guidelines for rolling behind a screen or not. There are definitely some skill checks (Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive) that can benefit from being rolled by the GM behind a screen, but there's no requirement either way.
This is up to GM discretion. If you feel you GM is fudging rolls to your detriment, you can ask him or her to roll in the open -- just like in a home game. However, they are the GM and it is their table, and they can refuse. If you spot a trend and feel the GM is abusing the players' trust, then raise the issue with your event coordinator and/or local Venture-Captain.
I should mention that I usually roll in the open. When appropriate for the skills above, I'll roll behind a book or my hand. I don't use a GM screen.
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There's no guidelines for rolling behind a screen or not. There are definitely some skill checks (Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive) that can benefit from being rolled by the GM behind a screen, but there's no requirement either way.
This is up to GM discretion. If you feel you GM is fudging rolls to your detriment, you can ask him or her to roll in the open -- just like in a home game. However, they are the GM and it is their table, and they can refuse. If you spot a trend and feel the GM is abusing the players' trust, then raise the issue with your event coordinator and/or local Venture-Captain.
I should mention that I usually roll in the open. When appropriate for the skills above, I'll roll behind a book or my hand. I don't use a GM screen.
I too roll some dice behind my hand. In order to prevent players from meta-gaming, I occasionally roll a d20 behind my hand, check the module and smirk, and then carry on gaming. They never quite know what's going on, but it keeps them on their toes :D
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I too roll some dice behind my hand. In order to prevent players from meta-gaming, I occasionally roll a d20 behind my hand, check the module and smirk, and then carry on gaming. They never quite know what's going on, but it keeps them on their toes :D
Classic. Another favorite of mine is to ask for unnecessary Perception checks. Or, if I know one is coming up, I'll ask for it before the triggering event happens. Does keep 'em guessing.
For example:
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I roll in secret because I don't want my players to metagame a single bit. If I roll a 2 and call "Does 22 hit your AC?", they'll most likely suspect the attacker has True Strike cast on him/herself.
I've fudged only once; I softballed, and gave a character minimum damage. That was enough to kill him though...
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I roll in secret because I don't want my players to metagame a single bit.
Not to pick on you in particular, but a statement like this kind of irks me. As it happens, I'm an adult with an interest in the fun of the adventure and am even capable of playing through an adventure that I've already GM'd, without metagaming one bit. The attitude of "I have to roll in secret to keep my players from metagaming" seems to imply that you think we're all incapable of that kind of self-restraint, which is rather insulting.
Now, I don't assume that to be the GM's motivation when I see that he rolls behind the screen. I usually just presume that it's out of habit or tradition or whatever. But if my GM made a comment like yours, I'd feel like I was being treated like a child who can't be trusted to keep his hand out of the cookie jar.
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I roll open unless its something that the players don't know is happening, like a perception roll from baddies or whatever.
I also like to make people roll for random stuff to send a message. For example, "roll a reflex save"...player rolls a 10. "okay, nothing happens". sends a message that they need to be for a while without saying "are you sure you aren't looking for traps?"
i also do random rolls behind a screen cause I'm evil.
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I roll in secret because I don't want my players to metagame a single bit.Not to pick on you in particular, but a statement like this kind of irks me. As it happens, I'm an adult with an interest in the fun of the adventure and am even capable of playing through an adventure that I've already GM'd, without metagaming one bit. The attitude of "I have to roll in secret to keep my players from metagaming" seems to imply that you think we're all incapable of that kind of self-restraint, which is rather insulting.
Now, I don't assume that to be the GM's motivation when I see that he rolls behind the screen. I usually just presume that it's out of habit or tradition or whatever. But if my GM made a comment like yours, I'd feel like I was being treated like a child who can't be trusted to keep his hand out of the cookie jar.
I have had issues with players metagaming, and with PFS, I don't know the players. They might be metagamers or they might not be. I roll everything in the open but metagameable information.
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Unfortunately, I've encountered more than one situation where players fudge their dice rolls at the table. They're a minority, but it's awfully disruptive to play when it happens.
As a GM, I always roll my dice out in the open for everyone to see. Good rolls or bad, the players see it as it is. I think by setting the example yourself, you can request players also roll their dice out for everyone to see, and reduce the possibility that an individual is fudging their rolls.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I roll in the open, but I do like GM screens generally for quick information so I will sometimes roll behind it out of convinence. I take exception to players that do not roll out in the open or use cell-phone dice adapters, I have caught one person fudging rolls behind his lab-top befor also.
I think players should always be rolling in the open. I can't think of any reason not to.
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I think players should always be rolling in the open. I can't think of any reason not to.
I know many players that use Dice "Boxes" to roll in, not only do I find them annoying because I can't see the rolls, but they also take up a lot of space. Same problem with Dice rolling Apps.
I have banned them at games I run.
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I think players should always be rolling in the open. I can't think of any reason not to.
I know many players that use Dice "Boxes" to roll in, not only do I find them annoying because I can't see the rolls, but they also take up a lot of space. Same problem with Dice rolling Apps.
I have banned them at games I run.
They can also keep dice from going all over the table. I tend to like them myself, but can understand your position.
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They can also keep dice from going all over the table. I tend to like them myself, but can understand your position.
Which can be controlled without a Box IMO, I don't have a box and I can control my dice from flying all over the table.
Do you mean just a plain old box and they toss their dice in there instead of on the table? Or do you mean one of those things where they drop the dice in the top and they roll their way down and come out the bottom?
The First
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I roll in secret because I don't want my players to metagame a single bit. If I roll a 2 and call "Does 22 hit your AC?", they'll most likely suspect the attacker has True Strike cast on him/herself.
I'm probably unusual in believing that that the CHARACTERS actually will, in general, have some idea of what they and the opponent "rolled".
If you're involved in some sport and "take a shot" you generally have a reasonable idea of how well you did before you see the results. You know when you played above or below par. Ie, you know what you "rolled". Admittedly with far less precision than seeing a D20 but, in general, they know if they "rolled" high or low.
I prefer it when all rolls are open. I think that it adds a lot to the game when the players see the GM roll a 7 and they still get hit. They now know that they're in for a tough fight, they realize that Orc is NOT a mook, etc.
And I think that the characters are probably seeing something like "The orc more or less casually waves his sword in your direction, not even really trying. You're startled to see that he got by your defences".
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I think that in OP, it is in everyone's best interest to roll openly. I think it is human nature to distrust people you don't know, so I don't want anyone rolling their eyes when my purple Paizo D20 crits multiple times in a row.
I use index cards to track initiative and I have come to ask the players to pre-roll six checks each for perception and sense motive. Then I can randomly use one if it is required during gameplay without tempting meta-gaming. Works well and keeps the game moving.
As always, its entirely based on the players you have and the type of game you have fun playing.
In general I roll behind the screen. This affords me two things;
1) it builds tension and allows subterfuge and misdirection (ie fake rolls, concealing number and type of dice rolled)
2) it allows fudging where necessary
Players arent idiots. Most players realise that concealed rolls mean some fudging at times. How you use this can enhance or detract from the game.
I generally will only fudge at critical moments. When the player rolls a 1 when using diplomacy on an NPC destined to be an ongoing campaign contact, or when the epic end-of-level villain crits, confirms and then rolls max damage blowing out my carefully crafted encounter ballance and killing the fighter - in this case I'd re-roll damage (the crit would stand).
My players craft PCs with a great deal of thought and effort in the concept, but generally not in the stats. My players are role players, and the PCs generally arent min/maxed for crushing combat effectiveness.
I will kill characters who do stupid things. What I am loathe to do is kill characters that fall victim to a string of poor dice rolls. In such situations I will fudge one or two rolls to give the PCS a chance to work their way out of a tough situation. Of course the risk of death needs to remain otherwise it devalues the gaming experiance, but a little 'help' now and again can do wonders for your game.
I know a lot of DMs swear by the 'honesty' of open rolls, but its pretty disheartening to watch your favourite character get pulled apart by the fickle dice gods.
The honesty in my game is that the players know I wont hang them out to dry completely, and if they are quick or clever they can reverse ill fortune.
In the end its all about having fun, and for us the characters and the story takes precedence over combat, loot and completely random fate
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I read a quote by Gary Gygax somewhere, a long, long time ago, that " A good GM only rolls dice because of the nice noise they make".
Now I can't remember where I read it or prove if it was genuine but it has always informed me on how To DM. In OP I roll behind a screen because to put it concisely it counters metagaming. It also allows me to fudge rolls in those very rare cases that I feel that it is appropriate. This is rare for me mainly being avoiding TPKs in starter groups due to bad luck or if heaven forbid I realise later that I screwed something up earlier and it is better to fudge things beind a screen than demand that disbelief be even further suspended by attempting to retcon things!
In normal play I would sometimes lift the screen to show the roll but this was for dramatic effect. I even had a 20 sided d10 I could palm for an identical normal d20 when I felt that they had earned a break. On even rarer if occasions when I felt that the added drama was called for I would drop the screen and roll the dice infront of everyone, often spinning the d20 so that it took 30 secs or so before the party knew their doom!
W
I use index cards to track initiative and I have come to ask the players to pre-roll six checks each for perception and sense motive. Then I can randomly use one if it is required during gameplay without tempting meta-gaming. Works well and keeps the game moving.
I had a GM use the index card thing last session, I thought it was really awesome. He didn't once have to ask us for skills or stats, and he had everything in front of him. I thought it was a pretty good idea.
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I usually use my GM screen for hiding the scenario, or my tracking of damage, and roll in the open.
However, like Caepio, I may occasionally secretly roll things like opposed rolls, or very rarely fudge things in the players' favour. I remember a beginning group that had been TPK'd the session before at a major convention, and I avoided having my lucky dice be the factor in them being TPK's a 2nd session in a row.
As it is, I'm usually a softie GM, but have killed about 15-20 PCs in my 90-odd sessions (84 reported, so far) by rolling openly.
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I roll behind the screen. The screen has a lot of nifty info, and is good for hiding maps and what not. I guess I was always brought up with GM running behind the screen. Personally I feel letting the player see the dice.
When I play, I definitely do not mind the screen. I trust the GM to do what they are supposed to do to follow PFS rules while keeping the game a good time.
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I think that in OP, it is in everyone's best interest to roll openly. I think it is human nature to distrust people you don't know, so I don't want anyone rolling their eyes when my purple Paizo D20 crits multiple times in a row.
I use index cards to track initiative and I have come to ask the players to pre-roll six checks each for perception and sense motive. Then I can randomly use one if it is required during gameplay without tempting meta-gaming. Works well and keeps the game moving.
I like your idea of having the rolls on the cards. I also GM with note cards and there is a lot of wasted space. Your method seems to keep the game flowing better. I am probably just as guilty of meta gaming, but any options to help prevent game flow slow down, definitely gives players a bit more time to play out their characters personality if the game flows smoother mechanic wise.
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What's with all the hassle here? Jiggy, if I happen to roll "in the dark" it does not mean I somehow try to insult you or any of your fellow players. My observations have proved that rolling in the open will catch the attention of metagamers and make them change their tactics if they notice the foe's attack bonus being very high.
As a player I have absolutely no opinion on whether the GM rolls openly or in secret. If I can't trust the GM to be fair, that's not a good GM at all.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What's with all the hassle here? Jiggy, if I happen to roll "in the dark" it does not mean I somehow try to insult you or any of your fellow players.
Well, I had a nice, thorough, full-of-clarification post typed up. And of course, the forums ate it.
Short version: the above-quoted statement from you shows that you didn't really read my post very carefully. You defend yourself from the claim that rolling secretly is an insult - I did not make this claim. Re-read my post: it's about the attitude presented, not whether your rolls are open or secret. If you require further clarification, let me know.
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SCARAB buys 33mm d20's in bulk and not only do we roll in the open all players roll in the open and use 33MM d20's. If you don't have one one will be provided to you. At the end of the scenario I personally will often give away one of the large dice to the player everyone felt like had the biggest dice effect (was the luckiest) at the table. I will let them pick one out of the bag randomly or keep the one they were using since it was lucky for them.
Want to know more about SCARAB - check out our website HERE.
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I've started rolling in the open for combat, but behind the screen for skill checks that need to be secret, and occasionally for no reason just to keep players guessing. I have tried asking for pre-rolled perception rolls, but in the confusion of mustering it's hard to supervise, and sometimes you get the "6 high rolls in a row" thing.
I have asked for 6 d20 rolls, which I will use for either Perception or to confirm crits rolled against that character - this prevents the "all high rolls" scenario. But it's a hassle at the front end of the game.
I like the idea about providing big d20's for everyone... far too many "little tiny dice" for my taste. Transparency is good, even when there's no cheating occuring.
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What's with all the hassle here? Jiggy, if I happen to roll "in the dark" it does not mean I somehow try to insult you or any of your fellow players.Well, I had a nice, thorough, full-of-clarification post typed up. And of course, the forums ate it.
Short version: the above-quoted statement from you shows that you didn't really read my post very carefully. You defend yourself from the claim that rolling secretly is an insult - I did not make this claim. Re-read my post: it's about the attitude presented, not whether your rolls are open or secret. If you require further clarification, let me know.
Apparently. My native language != English. I often miss passive "yous".
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I do both. if i feel it adds to the mystery or i just want to make them sweat a little. I roll hidden. whether its combat or skill. Skill checks I always let them roll. even perception and other easy to metagame skills. reason? when you do a task you have trained for a long time to do well. you know when you mess up. so do the characters when they pick their nose while looking for that alarm trap.
I do like the 30mm die of doom though plan on getting me some for myself. however i wont be making people use them. some people have lucky/personal dice.
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With PFS I definitely roll in the open. There's really no reason not.
If I want to fudge the encounter, I can just make the monsters have bad tactics.
I often adjust tactics to the table. experienced players get the hardcore tactics. less so get the overconfident less tactful monsters (and some times i just forget to use tactics all together). I also think that there are other ways to adjust an encounter for the fun of the table than fudging die rolls. I often set a mood of impending doom or use foreshadowing in the encounters to enhance the encounter.
also making them make knowledge checks to get a name of a creature and just giving its description with dramatic flare makes the CR 1/3 skeleton scarier because they have never seen a skeleton of that configuration before. maybe it has a template added to it. maybe not...
to me tactics and drama make it more fun than a flat +2 to die rolls for difficulty sake.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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In my home game, I always rolled behind the GM screen for reasons sited above by others; to heighten tension and sometimes even to preserve the players for the sake of story.
Since becoming involved with Organized Play, I have always rolled all my dice where the players can see them. Sometimes these dice mean nothing and still create tension. Sometimes its a random pre-roll for initiative in an encounter I know is forthcoming before they do. At Brewfest this weekend, I even used the trick of picking up a large number of dice and rolling them for damage; fortunately for the players, only the black dice counted! ;)