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So I had an interesting campaign arc going on in which the BBEG was manipulating the PCs into doing his dirty work for them (unbeknownst to them of course). The party wizard, a powerful mind-controller, decided he could use his powers on the BBEG in order to get more compensation for the jobs they have been taking.
Because there is a paladin in the party, he did this away from the others in order to save face. He asked the BBEG for a private audience, successfully dominated him (beating SR and getting lucky with a natural "1" roll despite mind blank), and then proceeded to force him to answer questions pertaining to money and profit (the enchanter is greedier than most rogues).
Because the BBEG's grand scheme stands to make him nearly unlimited wealth, the party wizard inadvertently stumbled upon information he and his party isn't supposed to have for another several levels/adventures.
The enchanter now knows EVERYTHING about the BBEG's plans.
Rather than warn his companions and end the campaign prematurely, however, he has decided to keep it to himself so that he may "win" the end game. Essentially, he has become the new BBEG (though he is currently true neutral). He is going to keep the old BBEG dominated (easily done with visits every several days and instructions to "lower your defenses") while ordering the BBEG to continue with the scheme.
The only difference, really, is that the enchanter will end up ruling the world with unlimited wealth and power rather than the BBEG.
The enchanter player and I are now working together to ensure the campaign continues for its full duration and that everyone still has fun all the while. Essentially, it's now going to be a kind of PvP campaign with NPC co-stars (though the big reveal and true PvP until the end of the campaign arc).
I'm hoping to get some advice on how to handle this situation. I worry it may somehow spin out of control (more so than it already has) and prematurely ruin the campaign for one or more people. What should I be watching out for as we proceed? It's a delicate situation to say the least and I want everyone to have a lot of fun, even when they realize their party mate's betrayal in the final showdown. Anyone have any experience in similar scenarios in which they can impart wisdom from?
Use "Protection From X" next time.
If the other players are in on it, and want to see how things unfold, then I think that will be epic.
Most of the folks I've played with were too competitive IRL (myself included) to let that happen.
I'm really interested to see how this turns out, and i wish you and your group luck.
Use "Protection From X" next time.
Which does nothing against a neutral caster and, even if it did, only allows a reroll. What's more, its duration is shorter than dominate person's "days per level." Essentially, the enchanter would not be able to tell the BBEG to do anything until the PfE wore off. At that point, he's still won him over.
Use "Protection From X" next time.
Did you not read the post?
Essentially, he has become the new BBEG (though he is currently true neutral).
Do the enchanter's actions make sense for his character after finding out all this information? If so, let it continue. But I would specifically not try "working together to ensure the campaign continues for its full duration" as you say. This sounds to me like you are making concessions to let the player's dastardly plan work out for him. I think it makes more sense to let the truth reveal itself naturally.
It makes more sense to me for this problem to end with the rest of the group finding out their enchanter is the enemy and having some "PvP" roleplaying. If the enchanter just agrees to work with the group to stop the BBEG, the campaign isn't over; you have the option of new BBEG's showing up or one of the BBEG's henchmen finding out the dominate exists and dispelling it. If the player instead decides his character would still try to win the campaign despite the rest of the group knowing, you now have a new NPC enchanter (or a dead enchanter) and that player can roll up a new PC.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying my options are the best. They are colored by the fact that I as a DM just wouldn't find it fun for this situation to even exist. I would quickly find a way to add to or change the actual threats involved in the campaign.
Watch what he says carefully. If he lets something slip, just send powerful parties to stop him. A dagger to a sleeping throat can do wonders.
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Introduce a "Loyal Lieutenant / secret master beyond BBEG" who notices something is up and has break enchantment cast on BBEG who then turns the tables the next time the enchanter shows up. this way you can use either the current BBEG or the loyal lieutenant as a catspaw boss fight before the real showdown.
If the other players are in on it, and want to see how things unfold, then I think that will be epic.
Most of the folks I've played with were too competitive IRL (myself included) to let that happen.
I'm really interested to see how this turns out, and i wish you and your group luck.
Only the enchanter player is in on it. As far as anyone else is concerned, it is still a traditional campaign.
Anyone got any advice for discreet communications with the flipped player?
Introduce a "Loyal Lieutenant / secret master beyond BBEG" who notices something is up and has break enchantment cast on BBEG who then turns the tables the next time the enchanter shows up. this way you can use either the current BBEG or the loyal lieutenant as a catspaw boss fight before the real showdown.
He's not that type of BBEG. Except for the PC's he pretty much works solo. In a sense, they were his "loyal lietenants," one of which has graduated to "secret master" I guess. It would be seriously out of character for the BBEG if I were to introduce another such character.
Use "Protection From X" next time.Which does nothing against a neutral caster and, even if it did, only allows a reroll. What's more, its duration is shorter than dominate person's "days per level." Essentially, the enchanter would not be able to tell the BBEG to do anything until the PfE wore off. At that point, he's still won him over.
If the BBEG has any memory of the wizard's intervention then later on when the 7ish days are up the BBEG (Not sure what it is) can simply be unavailable. (Hop dimensions, get off of the plane. Let the bad effects wear off.) Make a dungeon crawl last 4 days as opposed to 1. Or have the wizard get knocked unconscious or into a coma for a week.
But the way I see it, your story hasn't changed at all, as the wizard doesn't want to change anything. So, keep it that way, and then make it harder and harder for the wizard to renew his domination. Give the wizard sense motive checks vs bluff checks to see if he can tell that the baddy is faking.
He's not that type of BBEG. Except for the PC's he pretty much works solo. In a sense, they were his "loyal lietenants," one of which has graduated to "secret master" I guess. It would be seriously out of character for the BBEG if I were to introduce another such character.
Do remember virtually no one ever is completely solo one may have butlers, servants etc as I assume he has enough holdings power to be in a position to hire/maneuver PC's around to begin with. Then it could be even worse as it becomes some villianous fiend has mind controlled our local X instant villification/ witch hunts and leverage over the PC who did the deed.
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So I had an interesting campaign arc going on in which the BBEG was manipulating the PCs into doing his dirty work for them (unbeknownst to them of course). The party wizard, a powerful mind-controller, decided he could use his powers on the BBEG in order to get more compensation for the jobs they have been taking.
Because there is a paladin in the party, he did this away from the others in order to save face. He asked the BBEG for a private audience, successfully dominated him (beating SR and getting lucky with a natural "1" roll despite mind blank), and then proceeded to force him to answer questions pertaining to money and profit (the enchanter is greedier than most rogues).
Because the BBEG's grand scheme stands to make him nearly unlimited wealth, the party wizard inadvertently stumbled upon information he and his party isn't supposed to have for another several levels/adventures.
The enchanter now knows EVERYTHING about the BBEG's plans.
Rather than warn his companions and end the campaign prematurely, however, he has decided to keep it to himself so that he may "win" the end game. Essentially, he has become the new BBEG (though he is currently true neutral). He is going to keep the old BBEG dominated (easily done with visits every several days and instructions to "lower your defenses") while ordering the BBEG to continue with the scheme.
The only difference, really, is that the enchanter will end up ruling the world with unlimited wealth and power rather than the BBEG.
The enchanter player and I are now working together to ensure the campaign continues for its full duration and that everyone still has fun all the while. Essentially, it's now going to be a kind of PvP campaign with NPC co-stars (though the big reveal and true PvP until the end of the campaign arc).
I'm hoping to get some advice on how to handle this situation. I worry it may somehow spin out of control (more so than it already has) and prematurely ruin the campaign for one or more people. What should I be watching out...
"Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus."
Would lowering his defenses be against the nature of the BBEG? Should he get other saving throws?
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A mortal BBEG who was conspiring to attain “unlimited wealth” has become controlled by another mortal who will take over the plans and gain the unlimited wealth for himself.
Perhaps a more powerful being (devil, demigod or demon) noticed the BBEG and was waiting until the time was ripe to take control and gain world power. And your enchanter stepped in and ruined everything! Well, if the Bigger BBEG could control one mortal, why not another . . .
Just a thought . . .
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Not only that, but he's just as likely to roll a nat 20 and auto pass.
I say proceed as planned, and if he passes let the player deal with it, for good or ill.
Additionally, if he is that solo oriented he should have been making saving throws at each point of revelation of his plan as letting someone in on his plans would be against his nature.
A mortal BBEG who was conspiring to attain “unlimited wealth” has become controlled by another mortal who will take over the plans and gain the unlimited wealth for himself.
Perhaps a more powerful being (devil, demigod or demon) noticed the BBEG and was waiting until the time was ripe to take control and gain world power. And your enchanter stepped in and ruined everything! Well, if the Bigger BBEG could control one mortal, why not another . . .
Just a thought . . .
Those rails might seem a little too convenient to his players, especially if that plan backfires and the PC's manage to somehow come out on top again. If that happens, what then?
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It depends on how the BBEG works, if his movement and actions could lead him to forbid another casting, to meet someone able to see the domination and counterspell it...
It seems that right now you don't have any problem keeping the player's goal, the campaign and the Fun together. The new BBEG-PC took a lot of risks, and he will need to be intelligent if he doesn't want the scheme to turn against him, since there are billions of way for you to f$%! with such a scheme.
And should he finally win ? You could make him the BBEG of the next full campaign ; or extend the actual one with an awesome new plot with something like "this guy must not hold the power or his actions will unleash monsters and doom the world", allowing the players (imprisoned ? revived ? crawling through afterlife to gain revenge and serve the greater good ?) to go through some more levels they never would have thought they would play.
So I had an interesting campaign arc going on in which the BBEG was manipulating the PCs into doing his dirty work for them (unbeknownst to them of course). The party wizard, a powerful mind-controller, decided he could use his powers on the BBEG in order to get more compensation for the jobs they have been taking.
Because there is a paladin in the party, he did this away from the others in order to save face. He asked the BBEG for a private audience, successfully dominated him (beating SR and getting lucky with a natural "1" roll despite mind blank), and then proceeded to force him to answer questions pertaining to money and profit (the enchanter is greedier than most rogues).
Because the BBEG's grand scheme stands to make him nearly unlimited wealth, the party wizard inadvertently stumbled upon information he and his party isn't supposed to have for another several levels/adventures.
The enchanter now knows EVERYTHING about the BBEG's plans.
Rather than warn his companions and end the campaign prematurely, however, he has decided to keep it to himself so that he may "win" the end game. Essentially, he has become the new BBEG (though he is currently true neutral). He is going to keep the old BBEG dominated (easily done with visits every several days and instructions to "lower your defenses") while ordering the BBEG to continue with the scheme.
The only difference, really, is that the enchanter will end up ruling the world with unlimited wealth and power rather than the BBEG.
The enchanter player and I are now working together to ensure the campaign continues for its full duration and that everyone still has fun all the while. Essentially, it's now going to be a kind of PvP campaign with NPC co-stars (though the big reveal and true PvP until the end of the campaign arc).
I'm hoping to get some advice on how to handle this situation. I worry it may somehow spin out of control (more so than it already has) and prematurely ruin the campaign for one or more people. What should I be watching out...
I can't offer much in the way of advice, but after seeing some of your posts, I can honestly say I wish I played in one of your campaigns. lol
There always is the "rocks fall, everyone dies" option.
Beyond that though, I know I would personally not enjoy it if I ended up being one of the other players.
You could, for instance, find that there has been someone else, an assassin or whatever, who had been working against the former BBEG and now notices a connection between the Enchanter and the BBEG. He/she could inform the rest of the party of this, while the enchanter is busy reacting dominate.
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Just on the feeble chance that this is actually a real situation and not another of your famous hypotethicals.... it's time to pull a Xanatos move....
I would really love to be able to describe my games every once in a while without someone accusing me of being a liar.
"Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus."
Would lowering his defenses be against the nature of the BBEG? Should he get other saving throws?
I've always interpreted "against one's nature" to refer to severe/gross infractions, like mother Teresa murdering a baby or a paladin saving a demon. Lowering one's defenses against an ally or answering questions doesn't strike me as being against anyone's nature.
Enchantment already has enough problems without strict GMs making it crappier with harsh (but fair) rulings.
There always is the "rocks fall, everyone dies" option.
That is not, and never will be, an option in my games.
Beyond that though, I know I would personally not enjoy it if I ended up being one of the other players.
+10 to this!
I'd be thinking about making the Enchanter an NPC. He is now a major plot device for your campaign.
Alternatively, hand the GM Screen over to the Enchanter and roll up a PC for yourself. :p
I think you should at least move the Enchanters alignment to Evil. Surely whatever the methods are to obtain unlimited wealth it involves treading on a lot of toes(slitting a few throats), enough toes to become evil. Let the PCs deal with it when they find out (have an NPC point it out - a Paladin in the street works well).
I think you should at least move the Enchanters alignment to Evil. Surely whatever the methods are to obtain unlimited wealth it involves treading on a lot of toes(slitting a few throats), enough toes to become evil. Let the PCs deal with it when they find out (have an NPC point it out - a Paladin in the street works well).
Maybe so. Still the enchanter has commissioned a ring of mind shielding, which will be ready in only 4 in-game days. He's determined to keep these new-found secrets secret. Also, the paladin is not in the habit of scanning his long-time allies due to their having earned his trust long ago.
This is why you never see the big bad until the end
This is why they make minions.
and this is why you don't tell your minions everything.
This is why you never see the big bad until the end
This is why they make minions.
and this is why you don't tell your minions everything.
Going through what I'm going through, I'm inclined to agree. :P
Have the BBEG quietly interrogated, assassinated and replaced by a Rakshasa or Doppleganger with class levels (while the enchanter is resting). The imposter will play along with the Enchanter, pretending to be dominated (using magic & bluffs to make the enchanter believe his stuff is working).
Then, when things are good enough, the imposter turns the tables on the Enchanter, who should get a chance to escape with his life. Within the next day or so, the group will get message from the new BBEG as to what has transpired... so the Enchanter should probably give "his side of the story" before he finds himself in a bad way.
See what happens there.
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Every major villain has contingency plans, and yours shouldn't be any different.
Because of that, you shouldn't have to worry about what happened. If anything, you now have a tool to make things even more interesting.
In a world full of so many ways to be compromised by magical forces, your villain could use any number of ways to make this a win for him.
Seeing as your villain doesn't have minions, he might have a magic item or service that he uses every day to prevent things like enchantment. I am certain there is a way you could break that enchantment without breaking he rules.
If you don't want to break the enchantments, then why not break his plan? Have some new unforeseeable elements enter the game that make his plan impossible, or start putting the party in danger if the PC keeps his with his plans. Have an NPC alert the other PCs to some of the villains plans, but also tell them they believe someone else is pulling the strings.
My number one rule of GMing is "Just roll with it," as PCs are unpredictable and messy elements to any game. Just roll with this one and find a way to really mess with this PC. If anything, you have a great tool to create inter-party conflict.
It's an unusual situation. I can't say that if I were one of your other players I'd be happy when what's really going on came to light, but I don't think you've done anything wrong either.
All I can think of off the top of my head is for you to go ahead and shift his alignment toward evil and find some way to get around the ring of mind shielding. It might not even be that hard, PC's do dumb things and lose arms all the time.
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Well, sounds a lot like the mid-to-end game of an eberron campaign we had a few years back.
Short form: Melee beast Shapeshifter Druid/Monk gets true mind seeded by a psionic spirit (quori/inspired psion we obliterated a round or two later, after she offed a couple of PCs and cohorts).
Noone knew this happened, except the druid, who "failed to mention" the condition until it was WAY too late. Basically, Luke took Vader up on his "Join me, and together we will rule the universe..." offer.
Adventure continues, except the Druid/Monk starts taking "Psionic Monk" and then Psion levels. This made sense in character and out of game, as she had all her base combat abilities down and really wanted to be teleporting/flying/doing cool "magic" type stuff.
Cue the final boss fight, where the party gets their hands on the final quest McGuffin. Monk turns on the party, attempts to murderize my Conjurer (rightly so, as he was the most capable of dropping her with her powers/defenses) but fails. I use my "time machine" (long story, but basically an eldritch machine capable of turning the "time" locked in psionic/magical items back into "working time" for the user and a small area around it) and bounce out of the fight for a round.
When I come back, she's been dodging the rest of the party, swatting the melee guys down with kitty paws and powers, and in general just about unhittable. Cue the specially prepared spell-list for dropping this threat (wall of water + freezing sphere, orb of force, true strike, mostly, which put paid to most of her defenses.
TL/DR version: with foresight and planning, and mature players who won't get upset with PvP and a giant M. Night Shyamalyan style twist at the end of the campaign, this can be both fun and memorable.
One caveat: don't pull punches for the Enchanter (or rest of the party)'s sake. If they don't take steps to defeat basic detection or go out of their way to figure out "what is up with him???" they should get their standard chance to succeed.
So I had an interesting campaign arc going on in which the BBEG was manipulating the PCs into doing his dirty work for them (unbeknownst to them of course). The party wizard, a powerful mind-controller, decided he could use his powers on the BBEG in order to get more compensation for the jobs they have been taking.
Because there is a paladin in the party, he did this away from the others in order to save face. He asked the BBEG for a private audience, successfully dominated him (beating SR and getting lucky with a natural "1" roll despite mind blank), and then proceeded to force him to answer questions pertaining to money and profit (the enchanter is greedier than most rogues).
I am sure the chances of him revealing the info would be unlikely so the BBEG should have gotten a 2nd roll with a +2 modifier if dominate person was used.
Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.
The lower you defenses thing would also prompt a save since that is something that is nonsensical to do. <----This one may even be considered to be self destructive and most GM's would not dominate to force someone to fail a save. That would negate the +2 scenario automatically, and I am sure that is not the intent.
There should have also been an initiative roll by the rules, and the "his guard was down" should not work. Wizards know how powerful magic is, and letting his guard down would not make sense at all.
In order to fix it I would give the BBEG a +2 along with a save the next time the autofail command is given. Of course this will probably change the game since the BBEG won't be too happy about what just happened.
This sounds like tons of fun. Although you may want to throw a few monkey wenches in the Enchanters designs... Perhaps make it so that right before he clinches it all he is delayed in his return and unable to continue his mind control of the BBEG.
Now the BBEG is angry and perhaps turns to the other players and some outside forces and tries to expose the Enchanter.
All in all though it sounds like it could be extremely fun to play out.
Theres a couple other ways this could play out.
Another party Dominates the BBEG while the party is away
Circumstances force the enchanter away long enough for Dominate to expire.
BBEG gets killed by a rival, band of Paladins, assassin, ect
BBEG intersects wit some antimagic and gets freed
Someone rescues the BBEG, for a price.
Clone Spell of BBEG wakes up, after BBEG is killed
If the character is now the new BBEG, take him away from the player and make him an NPC. Same thing applies when a PC becomes undead, dominated, whatever.
It sounds harsh, but as my wife would say, "you break it, you bought it."
Though it can be fun to have a GM's Little Helper, it rarely works out when the GM shares too much information with one of the players. It's the fastest highway to accusations of player favoritism and metagaming.
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If you don't like where this is going then wisk the PCs away to another plane of existance, say, the Abyss, to do some adventuring there.
When they come back they notice that several weeks have gone by.
Should send creeps up and down the enchanters spine as his ernstwhile plaything is now his really really worst enemy with all the time he needs to prepare.
Sounds like it's about time for the BBEG's minion to walk into Bad Guy HQ, pull a Sense Motive followed by a break enchantment.
The difference between Evil Guys and Big Bad Evil Guys is that BBEGs are two steps ahead of you at all times. (Until the end.)
You need to incorporate the enchanter finding out what he's found out as part of the BBEG's plan.
there's been some good responds but This situation should have never even happened or been permitted and something was messed up along the way..
dominate person is a 5th level spell that your PC had access too, making him at least 9th level. The BBEG wanked his role and is now dominated, ok got that.
Here's a handful of problems to begin with. Dominate person is a FULL ROUND action. And it has verbal and somatic components. Your BBEG should have been minimum 13th level. That's plenty of experience to say- "hay this guy is waving his hands around making gestures he's casting a spell at me, or the very least he's up to no good so im going to kill him!" This means initiative is rolled and even if the BBEG LOST initiative would still go first!
Botching his save and spell resistance, ok very unlikely but possible. Now, botching his save, spell resistance, AND standing there for a full round while a person casts a spell or (at the least takes a hostile action)and just waiting to see what happens and gets dominated? I MEAN REALLY!? He's not a BBEG, he's a moron! and morons don't live to be 13th level. What class is this BBEG? He must be a 13th level commoner with a 3 INT.
If he's a spell caster, which i suspect he is since he had mind blank up, The wizard would have had WAY more defenses up and many different angles at hand. Being the level he SHOULD be and as intelligent as he SHOULD be, he would know everything there is to know about the PC's through magic. Plus being a super powerful evil wizard hell bent on his ultimate plan surely he would have anticipated the enchanter to have dominate person at his disposal. This BBEG should have been 5 steps ahead of the PC, you failed to properly play the part. SImply put, the player did not dominate the BBEG and take over the campaign, you let him dominate him and you fed him the campaign with a platinum fork. It's now up to you to realize where you errored and simply take it back!
"Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth)....
IS the player continually giving the BBEG commands? he continues to do what is commanded. against his very natures could be a HOST of things. Not allowing a spell caster to cast spells for a whole day is against there nature as spellcasters well... cast spells. Each day he's not allowed to cast spells allow a new save. What's his alignment? If he's evil, being helpful to someone he deems as less powerful than himself or simply being ordered around by someone that should be his apprentice for a day should allow a save. Or not being allowed to be evil at all for that matter, evil would be his very nature. Simply put this BBEG should be allowed a new save at least every day. This shouldn't be an issue of nerfing the spell as you put it since this BBEG seems to be made of animated yellow sponge...
Many ways around this;
* An adventure delays the wizard beyond the spell's duration.
* An assassin kills the originating BBEG
* A doppleganger replaces the orginating BBEG
* A rival cuts the BBEG out of the lucrative 'market' he has cornered making the Wizard's information redundant
* The source of unlimited wealth dries up for indirect reasons
* A political ploy marginalises the orginating BBEG so he doesn't have the ability to contunue in his role
* A demon possesses the Wizard, rummages around in his head, finds the plans and then leaves to wreck them for fun
* An important Devil turns up, complains that the Wizard has interfered with a 'ultimate wealth soul pact deal' currently ongoing with the originating BBEG and gives either an alternative reward to the Wizard the campaign can handle or incapacitates the Wizard until he relents in his plans
* Some other NPC finds out about the originating BBEG's plans and mind controls him themselves - introducing a counterplay and a counter to the Wizards control of the situation
* the originating BBEG was insane and the plan is a fanciful self-deception well-embedded in sufficient real-world facts to make it LOOK real
That's just a few minutes spitballing - hope it helps :)
I'm hoping to get some advice on how to handle this situation. I worry it may somehow spin out of control (more so than it already has) and prematurely ruin the campaign for one or more people. What should I be watching out...
The way I would do it is have the BBEG get control broken by some event at some point, and then keep up the pretence in order to turn tables on the Enchanter at some very inopportune moment (for the Enchanter). Just because the Enchanter has rigged things the way he thinks are foolproof doesn't mean they cannot happen.
Oh, and I'd start shifting the Enchanter's alignment toward evil, as what he is doing is pretty nasty.
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Um.
That actually sounds like a blast, and a chance to do something truly memorable with your campaign.
I suggest you follow through. Talk to the enchanter player about co-opting the BBEG's plan and becoming the "real" BBEG.
Keep the old BBEG around as a distraction, and have things play out more or less as they were supposed to.
Then one day, late in their efforts, have that BBEG break out of domination somehow. I would use mildly foreshadowed intervention by yet another NPC, but you could go deus ex machina if your party is amenable and you haven't historically overused it.
He should then try to confront the party and become their allies against the enchanter PC! Except, alter the circumstances to make his story really unbelievable... that way they are more apt to just kill him or take him captive before learning the truth.
Man, I envy your stumbling into a situation this cool!
Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).
This, what was the last command he gave before the party left? Unless the BBEG is alone all the time and has no servants or people he interacts with regularly, I think it highly likely that someone will notice he is dominated eventually.
Yeah Ravingdork I gotta say, I usually find your quandaries to be interesting thought exercises. But this one seems like its self inflicted. As the DM there are a dozen ways out of this without letting your player take over.
Um.
That actually sounds like a blast, and a chance to do something truly memorable with your campaign.
No, no, ridiculous! You have to do some GM fiating to overthrow the PC and reset the scenario to how it was intended!
No, no, ridiculous! You have to do some GM fiating to overthrow the PC and reset the scenario to how it was intended!Um.
That actually sounds like a blast, and a chance to do something truly memorable with your campaign.
LOL nice sarcasm, I am not talking about DM fiat, if the player dots their Is and crosses their Ts that's fine, but as I posted, I think the chance of someone figuring out the BBEG is dominated is actually fairly high, especially given this is going to go on for a long time.I wouldn't fiat it, I would just let what happens run its course, I just think that under the rules what is likely to happen is that someone will notice, then the DM has to figure out what whoever notices would do. If the last command was something like "Go about your business normally" the DC might go up to 25 as described, but even then, there is always a chance someone makes it especially given the long period of time this will go on. Personally, I think its DM caveat to assume the domination is full proof and let the character run that way. You can just play it by the rules with the best interpretation you can and let what happens happen.
Just on the feeble chance that this is actually a real situation and not another of your famous hypotethicals.... it's time to pull a Xanatos move....I would really love to be able to describe my games every once in a while without someone accusing me of being a liar.
1. You've cottened to making stories up in the past, and they've always been on the same level of improbability as this one. So yes, past actions do haunt you.
2. The other problem is that in this case your BBEG sounds like the kind of complete idiot that should have gotten himself assassinated years ago, so yeah, I'd have problems believing this if I posted it myself.
But on the chance you're on the up and up... Watch the series called Gargoyles and learn the orginal meaning of the term Xanatos Gambit
Xanatos Gambit after the fact is god modding, not a Xanatos Gambit. BBEGs are usually run as Batman Gambits - everything goes great until some crazy, 99% unexpectable thing happens, like a rogue PC dominating your BBEG.
What you are trying to refer to is Xanatos Speed Chess, but that's kind of hard when the chessmaster is dominated by the opposing player. Xanatos Gambit would have involved a contingency spell in the case of mind control.