Advice on my holy warrior cleric / holy vindicator


Advice


Ok, here is the concept im currently working through. Right now im building a holy warrior cleric (lose domains and gain full bab, d10 HD, martial wep prof.)/ holy vindicator. Im starting at level six. The reason I am playing this is because my party needed a healer something fierce because I cant seem to convince everyone to just get UMD and a damn wand. But I digress, I love playing clerics and I basically am looking for a way to not be a healbot. With Holy vindicator I will still have strong enough healing capabilities, decent casting and access to 9th level spells, heavy armor, and decent combat abilities.

My original plan was to wield a heavy shield with two hands for shield bashing/bullrushing fun. This would allow me to keep guys away from me while im trying to heal and to save one of the party members by pushing guys away from them when they are hurt. I have also considered duel wielding shields but that is too feat intensive for me and im considering taking a few channeling feats.

What im looking for is a general critique on my build concept as well as some suggestions on other wep. choices and feats.


ohh and im playing a human need the extra feat, plus the alternate favored class bonus for them will help later because i get the feeling evil outsiders are going to be an issue.

Dark Archive

zomblisham wrote:
ohh and im playing a human need the extra feat, plus the alternate favored class bonus for them will help later because i get the feeling evil outsiders are going to be an issue.

OK, I'll bite. Your trade off (giving up domains for full BAB, martial weapon proficiency and d10 HP) isn't balanced. If your DM will allow it, I guess its cool (at least for you!), but it's definitely not balanced.

You haven't posted your build, so it's pretty difficult to comment on it at this point. Ditto for your playing Human because you need the extra feat. if you've already planned your feats, please let us know what you've got planned.

In general terms, playing a cleric that worships a deity that has a strong weapon (greatsword is a great option) eliminates the need to have martial weapon proficiency. Alternatively, playing a half-elf (alternate racial trait for weapon proficiency from APG) or half-orc (falchion as a racial weapon) works very well.

You don't really need a ton of feats to be an effective melee damage dealer as a cleric, as long as you have a high STR. Power Attack is important. Weapon Focus makes up for the lack of full BAB, but you won't be able to keep up with the Fighter or the Barbarian, with their various bonuses to attack, unless you have a free round or two to buff (Divine Favor, Divine Power, etc) - which will even things out a bit.

Holy Vindicator gives you access to heavy armor, but also pushed you (by having strong class powers) towards using a shield. If you use a shield, your damage from PA and STR bonuses is going to drop quite a bit, since you will be using your weapon one handed. Overall, I'm not sure that HV is really a great option for the build: it definitely has its pros and cons.


Argus The Slayer wrote:
zomblisham wrote:
ohh and im playing a human need the extra feat, plus the alternate favored class bonus for them will help later because i get the feeling evil outsiders are going to be an issue.

OK, I'll bite. Your trade off (giving up domains for full BAB, martial weapon proficiency and d10 HP) isn't balanced. If your DM will allow it, I guess its cool (at least for you!), but it's definitely not balanced.

You haven't posted your build, so it's pretty difficult to comment on it at this point. Ditto for your playing Human because you need the extra feat. if you've already planned your feats, please let us know what you've got planned.

In general terms, playing a cleric that worships a deity that has a strong weapon (greatsword is a great option) eliminates the need to have martial weapon proficiency. Alternatively, playing a half-elf (alternate racial trait for weapon proficiency from APG) or half-orc (falchion as a racial weapon) works very well.

You don't really need a ton of feats to be an effective melee damage dealer as a cleric, as long as you have a high STR. Power Attack is important. Weapon Focus makes up for the lack of full BAB, but you won't be able to keep up with the Fighter or the Barbarian, with their various bonuses to attack, unless you have a free round or two to buff (Divine Favor, Divine Power, etc) - which will even things out a bit.

Holy Vindicator gives you access to heavy armor, but also pushed you (by having strong class powers) towards using a shield. If you use a shield, your damage from PA and STR bonuses is going to drop quite a bit, since you will be using your weapon one handed. Overall, I'm not sure that HV is really a great option for the build: it definitely has its pros and cons.

Holy warrior is a pathfinder campaign setting class and seems to be rather balanced IMO, so I see no issue here.

The combination of a holy vindicator and holy warrior is intriguing, I had always rather thought of a fighter/ranger/... with 1 level of cleric do get into it.

I'd also ask for more build details to advice :-)

Shadow Lodge

I think that the trade off is ok. You might also look at the Crusader Archtype from Ultimate Combat. Basically trades a Domain and 1 spell per spell level for Fighter-Like Bonus Feats (1st and every 5 levels), and later gets a sort of Mass Touch spell ability (I don't think it's worth it really).

That being said, why not just go Paladin? PF pretty much made the Paladin to do both the Paladin's and the Cleric's jobs anyway, and they already get both Martial and Heavy Armor Prof., Shields, and about the same amount of Feats, but more. Almost nothing si stronger against evil outsiders, they can go into HV (I think), and can both keep up with, and sometimes exceed the Cleric in healing.


Isn't Holy Warrior from the 3.5 version of Golarion?


ok here is my build thus far. I got the best rolls here I ever had. Again the concept is to still have great casting with acess to 9th level spells eventually, be a great combatant, be able to heal effectively, and save one of the characters with shield bashing the enemy away from them if they get too low in life. If anyone has any notes on another combat route that would be interesting Im open to suggestions. Also the reason he doesnt have a wepon is that when he isnt casting he is two handing the heavy shield. And I have heightened spell for spells like magic circle and sanctuary which are important to keeping a healer safe.

Human 5th level holy warrior cleric/ 1 level holy vindicator

str:14
dex:14
con:14
int:14
wis:18
cha:16

Hp:65
BAB:6/1
fort:7
ref:3
will:9
Ac:27=1dex+11armor+3shield+1nat+1deflection

Feats:imp. shield bash, shield slam, selective channel, heighten spell
traits: sacred condit (+1 channeling dc), birthmark (birthmark is focus for spell casting)

special: channel 3d6 6/day, vindicators shield, aura, cleric racial varient for favored class bonus.

attacks: spiked +1 shield of bashing: 9/4, 2d6+3

equipment: +1 shield of bashing, +2 full plate, +1 cloak of resistance, +1 amulet of nat armor, +1 ring of protection, wand of cure light wounds.


And yes holy warrior is a variant in golarion. Also I am restricted to using core rule book and advanced players guide. The only reason the dm is allowing holy warrior is because im playing the healer because no one wanted to put points into UMD despite it being one of the best skills to invest in.


And im not going paladin becuase this accesses waaaaay better spell casting.

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