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How would you build a Red Mage?


Conversions

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Shadow Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Beckett wrote:
And some of their Domains are much much better than most Cleric Domains.

Um... Their domains ARE cleric domains:

That's if you give up your animal companion (which the Red Mage obviously would) - you get to pick from a limited list of the cleric's domains. Unless there's some other list of druid-only domains I wasn't aware of...?

Yes, Ultimate Magic (and others maybe), have presented Druid Domains. They are NOT Druid only, but I meant specifically some of the Domains open to Druids rather than the Cleric Domains that Druids can also take. Some are horrible, and some are amazing.


What about an bard with the arcane duelist archetype? And prestiging to a duelist at a higher lvl?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GB_Be wrote:
What about an bard with the arcane duelist archetype? And prestiging to a duelist at a higher lvl?

Thread Necromancy much? :)

Arcane duelists are my favorite warrior-mage, personally, but they're less-than-ideal for a red mage because red mages cast elemental blast spells, which the standard bard list does not have. Magician was suggested precisely because it can grab spells from the wizard list. Likewise witch because it has buffs, heals, and blasts.

Likewise an arcane duelist-duelist could be an interesting mobile swordsman with a bit of magic, but it isn't in particular very red magey, all the moreso because you will cease to advance in spellcasting and your bardic boosts altogether. It's also got a little bit of a MAD problem because you will want to boost Int as well as Cha and Str and probably also Dex.

Now, off the topic of a red mage, what would be interesting--ridiculously unoptimal, but interesting--would be arcane duelist 10/duelist 2/eldritch knight up to at least 4. Duelist grants martial weapon proficiency so it opens up eldritch knight (you'd need to be at least bard 7 to get the other qualification in).

At 10th level arcane duelist, you can wear medium armor and cast without penalty. You could get a +2 to AC from Int (assuming an Int of 14) from Duelist and a few neat combat tricks, and eldritch knight brings back your spellcasting and ALSO allows you to qualify for fighter feats (like Weapon Specialization). And you get a big BAB boost from the prestige classes. It wouldn't be awful for a skirmisher style warrior who wants some spell boosts, although it obviously would take awhile to build. Still definitely not a red mage, but interesting.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm dotting this for some future input =D


BYC wrote:

Dawnflower Dervish bard archetype from Inner Sea Magic.

It's basically the Dervish Dancer archetype from Ultimat Combat except the Battle Dance bonus is DOUBLED and gets Dervish Dance feat in exchange for Bardic Knowledge, and the character gets less Battle Dance types.

Because of this the 3 attributes you'd need are only DEX, CON, and CHA. Everything else can stay 10.

So you can go something like:

STR 10
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16

0) it's PFS legal.
1) d6 + DEX modifier + Battle Dance bonus (starts at 2 because of the doubling), so it's d6 + 3 + 2.
2) this is a bit of an issue. Ear-Piercing Scream and Sound Burst are about the only ones.
3) bard, so you get cure spells.
4) chain shirt + DEX + feats if you want, d8 HD.
5) bard, 6 skills/level
6) 16 CHA
7) not a magus
8) not Kyra

This is the route I would take for this. Even though the bard's spell list is lacking in the direct damage department this can be lessened by the use magic device skill. It would take the feat Skill focus: Use Magic Device to work really well, but it could be done. At 3rd level UMD 12(3 cha, 3 ranks, 3 class skill, 3 feat) VS DC 20 = 35% failure. By 5th-6th you could be using wands pretty reliably.

The DCs for wands are going to be pretty low, so going with spells that don't give saves would be the best route. Level 1 Magic Missle, L2 Scorching ray, L3 ?, L4 Enervation as an example.

Osirion

Charender wrote:

The problem with a magus is that you don't have any healing spells.

Infernal Healing

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Wow, totally forgot this thread existed.

If anyone cares, I eventually made an Eldritch Knight. I was no longer thinking about the Red Mage when I made it, so he doesn't have the style or the heals, but he's pretty cool. Currently Fighter1/Wizard6/EK2, and he's a blast to play. :D


You can't make a legit RM in pathfinder because there's no ability that lets you cast two spells in a single round. That's a signature requirement.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh wow...totally missed the thread necro post and completely looked over the year this was originally posted =O anywho lets see if others will contribute haha


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:

Wow, totally forgot this thread existed.

If anyone cares, I eventually made an Eldritch Knight. I was no longer thinking about the Red Mage when I made it, so he doesn't have the style or the heals, but he's pretty cool. Currently Fighter1/Wizard6/EK2, and he's a blast to play. :D

Good to know you're having fun! I've seen some fun EK builds before.

Kazaan wrote:
You can't make a legit RM in pathfinder because there's no ability that lets you cast two spells in a single round. That's a signature requirement.

You can do that with the mystic theurge's Spell Synthesis ability. Trouble is you need to take mystic theurge all the way to 10th level to get it, and it's a hard class build to make work well and stick with.


Jiggy wrote:

I like the Red Mage from ye olde Final Fantasy. Wears some armor, but not as heavy as the fighter. Does worthwhile melee damage, but again not as much as the fighter. Casts offensive spells, but not the super-strong ones the dedicated Black Mage can cast. Casts defensive/healing spells, but not the super-strong ones the dedicated White Mage can cast. But rather than ending up sucking at everything, he's actually pretty good (in FF, quite possibly the best class, or close to it).

I'm curious as to how people would go about building a similar character in Pathfinder. Here are the requirements:

0) Needs to be PFS legal. You get docked points if in the early levels it either sucks or doesn't feel like a Red Mage yet; also remember that PFS caps at level 12. As a rule of thumb, try to have the build in decent working order by level 2.
1) Need to be able to deal melee damage, unassisted, averaging in the range of 5-6 per hit (if one handed) or more.
2) Need to be able to cast at least a couple of decent damage-dealing spells (or SLAs, etc) per day. Bonus points if from a distance (i.e., cleric's fire domain ray is preferred over flame oracle's fire punch thing).
3) Need to be able to cast at least a couple of healing and/or buff spells (or SLAs, etc) per day.
4) Need to be able to attain a decent armor class (say, 18+ by level 2 without magical enhancements) and have enough HP that going into melee isn't suicide.
5) The more skill ranks, the better. Minimum is 3/level, but try to go higher.
6) Not required, but bonus points if you don't dump CHA below 10, seeing as Red Mage is the coolest of the bunch. ;)
7) First person to post a magus gets slapped. Yes, it might be the easiest/best option, but seriously, let's try a little harder than that and explore our other options.
8) Please, no carbon-copies (or near-carbon-copies) of Kyra.

I have to ask, which Red Mage do you want? The one from FF1 would be pretty simple, while the one from FFXI is pretty complex.

Red Mage was one of my most dedicated jobs when I played FFXI: Online for 5 years. As far as a Pathfinder equivalent, Magus is a pretty good starting point. Most notably, to Arcane Pool points that allow you to add elemental damage to your weapon. This was a big deal for Red Mages in FFXI, and the Magus class does this very well.

But, Magi have no healing/divine portion. You'd need to build something into it, maybe multiclass into Oracle or even Inquisitor; Fast casting speed was a big part of the Red Mage job, so spontaneous casting wins out of prepared in my opinion, in terms of feel and theme.

I haven't tried this in PF/3.5 in a long time, so all I can really provide are starting points. But even though you specify against the Magus, from my experience in Red Magery, Magus is a really, really good starting point to build around.

Really, you're not going to get a true Red Mage that's legal for PFS. You can reskin a multiclassed character and call it a Red Mage, but to get the classes little nuances and signature abilities, you pretty much need a new class.


Kazaan wrote:
You can't make a legit RM in pathfinder because there's no ability that lets you cast two spells in a single round. That's a signature requirement.

From which game? I'm only familiar with Red Mages from the main FF series, and none of them cast 2 spells at once. I fail to see what's so "signature" about this, that the Quicken Spell feat couldn't cover.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Josh M, the OP was from a year ago, and the poster (Jiggy) decided to go a different route. (He also nixed magi along the way. :) )

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

...Though if you're interested in discussing anyway, I was talking about the original Red Mage from the first Final Fantasy. :)


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Josh M. wrote:
Kazaan wrote:
You can't make a legit RM in pathfinder because there's no ability that lets you cast two spells in a single round. That's a signature requirement.
From which game? I'm only familiar with Red Mages from the main FF series, and none of them cast 2 spells at once. I fail to see what's so "signature" about this, that the Quicken Spell feat couldn't cover.

FF5 establishes it as the penultimate refinement of the job system. Also, FFTA.


DeathQuaker wrote:
Josh M, the OP was from a year ago, and the poster (Jiggy) decided to go a different route. (He also nixed magi along the way. :) )

Aw, c'mon. I've necroed way older stuff than this. I saw it on the left side ticker, and being a huge Red Mage fan, I jumped in.

As a prominent Red Mage-style player, seriously, Magus is as close as you're going to get if we're talkin about any Red Mage from FF5 or later. Just find a way to add some healing spells, and it's done. The arcane pool ability that adds elemental damage is almost exactly like the FFXI Red Mage's series of spells that add elemental damage to melee attacks. The spell selection is pretty similar, too.

A FF1 Red Mage should be easy to do, since all it did was have a Bard's level of equipment proficiency, some healing spells, some buff/debuffs, and some damage spells. So, reflavor a bard, maybe nix the bardic music for something resembling a Magus' arcane pool, and done.


Kazaan wrote:
Josh M. wrote:
Kazaan wrote:
You can't make a legit RM in pathfinder because there's no ability that lets you cast two spells in a single round. That's a signature requirement.
From which game? I'm only familiar with Red Mages from the main FF series, and none of them cast 2 spells at once. I fail to see what's so "signature" about this, that the Quicken Spell feat couldn't cover.
FF5 establishes it as the penultimate refinement of the job system. Also, FFTA.

Alrighty, good to know. I played FF5 a long, long time ago and truthfully didn't get very far. My favorite FF games were 1, 4, 6, and 11(online).


Like many other FF threads, dotted :)


Jiggy wrote:

I like the Red Mage from ye olde Final Fantasy. Wears some armor, but not as heavy as the fighter. Does worthwhile melee damage, but again not as much as the fighter. Casts offensive spells, but not the super-strong ones the dedicated Black Mage can cast. Casts defensive/healing spells, but not the super-strong ones the dedicated White Mage can cast. But rather than ending up sucking at everything, he's actually pretty good (in FF, quite possibly the best class, or close to it).

I'm curious as to how people would go about building a similar character in Pathfinder. Here are the requirements:

0) Needs to be PFS legal. You get docked points if in the early levels it either sucks or doesn't feel like a Red Mage yet; also remember that PFS caps at level 12. As a rule of thumb, try to have the build in decent working order by level 2.
1) Need to be able to deal melee damage, unassisted, averaging in the range of 5-6 per hit (if one handed) or more.
2) Need to be able to cast at least a couple of decent damage-dealing spells (or SLAs, etc) per day. Bonus points if from a distance (i.e., cleric's fire domain ray is preferred over flame oracle's fire punch thing).
3) Need to be able to cast at least a couple of healing and/or buff spells (or SLAs, etc) per day.
4) Need to be able to attain a decent armor class (say, 18+ by level 2 without magical enhancements) and have enough HP that going into melee isn't suicide.
5) The more skill ranks, the better. Minimum is 3/level, but try to go higher.
6) Not required, but bonus points if you don't dump CHA below 10, seeing as Red Mage is the coolest of the bunch. ;)
7) First person to post a magus gets slapped. Yes, it might be the easiest/best option, but seriously, let's try a little harder than that and explore our other options.
8) Please, no carbon-copies (or near-carbon-copies) of Kyra.

what about magus with the race samsarans with the racial trait mystic past life. you get your blaster, combat specialist, and get to add 1+in mod spells to your spell list ie cure light,mod, serious and maybe crit or heal.


Even with the powerful necromancy that has been (repeatedly) performed on this thread, it would be awesome to see if any new ways to accomplish this concept have developed since the thread died out last.

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