Alright, Instead of fumming through a @#$%ton of pages wondering how to ensure my Ninja can pull his weight in my campaign, I've decided it's far more effective to turn to the experiance of the Paizo community to help me out. How do i make a well-rounded ninja that can not suck in melee, have generally useful abilities, and still do enough damage to feel like im actually roleplaying a ninja?
I'll be back in about 24 hours. Lemme know what works plz.
Alright, Instead of fumming through a @#$%ton of pages wondering how to ensure my Ninja can pull his weight in my campaign, I've decided it's far more effective to turn to the experiance of the Paizo community to help me out. How do i make a well-rounded ninja that can not suck in melee, have generally useful abilities, and still do enough damage to feel like im actually roleplaying a ninja?
I'll be back in about 24 hours. Lemme know what works plz.
What point buy/stats do you have?
What books are allowed?How do you plan to play the character?
How much damage do you need to do to feel useful?
Play L5R. Bayushi Shinobi is a true ninja. :)
Alright, Instead of fumming through a @#$%ton of pages wondering how to ensure my Ninja can pull his weight in my campaign, I've decided it's far more effective to turn to the experiance of the Paizo community to help me out. How do i make a well-rounded ninja that can not suck in melee, have generally useful abilities, and still do enough damage to feel like im actually roleplaying a ninja?
I'll be back in about 24 hours. Lemme know what works plz.
What point buy/stats do you have?
What books are allowed?
How do you plan to play the character?
How much damage do you need to do to feel useful?
Right. It helps to know what your resources are, any relevant campaign info (city theme? crypt theme?), as well as what you're doing now and why it's not working.
Empty hand monk probably has more damage than a "ninja" ninja, grabbing whatever weapon has the best effects, sticking more on it, then flurrying is crazy.
For the ninja class, I would look at taking 1 oracle level to get sidestep (cha instead of dex to dodge), going str / cha with con then dex secondary, and getting some eldritch heritage feats
http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/blood lines-from-paizo/marid-bloodline
unlimited use water jet for a blind chance (sneak attack away)
http://www.pathfindersrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/blood lines-from-paizo/orc-bloodline
+ str, + str, and stick quicken spell like ability to touch of rage yourself if your gm allows it. If not, its still useful to slap on someone else if you are hampered.
I've been meaning to try a half-elf ninja with eldritch heritage. In general, I'd prefer if the ninja was using two weapons to maximize the number of attacks, but since most ninja will have a good charisma score there should be some way to make use of it.Lepermachaun already mentioned a few (although they are not my favourites), and as I see it, there are two other very good options:
- Skill focus diplomacy and the Serpentine bloodline: the snake clan ninjas are master orators, able to sway their listeners and turn them into allies or cat's paws eager to do their bidding.
- The first feat - Eldritch Heritage - gives you snake bite several times per day. This is an additional attack on top of your regular routine that you can do sneak attack damage with. At higher levels this attack comes with con-draining poison. Several bites and an enemy may die even if they try fleeing!
- The second (Improved EH) gives you either at-will speaking with reptiles and a viper familiar or snake skin. The familiar gives you a bonus to bluff, the awareness feat if you keep it around (bonus to skills you likely use) and can use your skill ranks. For a wizard, that's meh - but a ninja likely has 10+ skill points each level, and a familiar means an effective reroll on many of those skills. Oh, and since it's tiny, it gets a significant modifier to stealth checks in case you need a scout. Oh, via the wildblooded variant (envenomed) you can trade that for swift poisoning of weapons a few times per day... not that I'd bother.
- The snake skin is simpler - bonuses to natural armor (stacks with enhancement bonus to NA), saves vs poison and escape artist checks. Not that good, but potentially handy
- Greater EH isn't that good imo - creeping doom with vipers 1/day.
The draconic bloodline isn't bad either, and dragon clan ninja are phenomenal scouts. SF (perception) can be great for a half-elf ninja (who already has bonuses on perception), and from then on things aren't bad either. For the price of a feat you can get:
- Eldritch Heritage: either claws (not very good) with enhancement, or spit attack you can sneak attack at range with via the linnorn wildblood bloodline. I'd say go linnorn - you will have a ranged weapon you can sneak attack with that ignores many forms of DR and no one can find on you. Claws can also be nice for a surprise, but they aren't quite as good.
- IEH gets either:
- scaling bonus to NA that stacks with most things as well as resistance to one element (quite decent imo, especially if you adventure in areas where one element dominates) or
- scaling breath weapon with decent damage a few times per day
- Greater EH is simple: flight at will.
Now, I can't guarantee that it will be the most uberleet ninja of all times, but it seems to me to be an interesting way to combine the mechanics of the class and provide for interesting fluff bases. Given that ninjas are essentially magical rogues anyway, a little extra magic certainly helps. Look over the SRD for other bloodlines you may like - the Rakshasa (Ghost Tiger Clan), Shadow/Umbral (Creeping Darkness Clan), and Abyssal (Daemon Warden Clan) bloodlines are just a few that might look interesting to you.
Apart from that, I treat the ninja as a rogue that gives trap goodies and delays evasion for some other stuff. TWF and flanking is still your best friend, you still have a lot of skills but aren't that tough. I'd advise against going all out on charisma - it still applies only for your ki pool and couple of other things. Dexterity is still where it's at for ninjas, imo - it helps you wield two weapons and make more attacks, hit (with weapon finesse), defend yourself, avoid various hazards, etc. I've heard stories about strength-based builds, but I'm not sure how good those really are. After UC, there is certainly an option to dual-wield weapons for nonlethal damage via sap adept/sap master, together those should give you a lot of SA damage.
Alright i got bored and came back prematurely. Here is some additional Info:
1)-25 point buy, DM doesn't want any stats lower then 10
2)-All Paizo content so far. Have yet to ask about old 3.5 or 3rd party content
3)-I'm leaning towards being a two-weapon fighter, using a Katana/Wakizushi combo. I also tend to lean towards skill monkey as well.
4)-How much damage do you feel is good for a (for lack of better terms) "Striker" type character. A good chance to inflict serious damage in one round to BBEG, if not kill some foes outright.
I've already noticed the 20th ninja ability isn't as good as most, so going full level 20 ninja isn't very high on the priority list. I'm much more interested in the Ninja's Assassinate ability and how many attacks he can pump out in a single round.
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The 20th level ninja ability isn't so hot, mostly because they put the rest of the ninja's awesome in the rest of the class. I'd suggest a few levels of the ninja class frankly, it gives you a ton of versatility that you simply cannot get other ways without being an actual spellcaster.
The ninja class mixes well with fighter and ranger in my opinion, inquisitor also gives you a few bits of fun. Personally I'd stay ninja, the master tricks are awesome.
The Ninja has an excellent capstone. Greater Invis that cannot be beaten. "she cannot be detected by any means". Do you know how great this is? There are quite a few enemies that will be able to beat your normal greater invis trick. The ability to reduce any ability score (such as Con) by 10 is also pretty good. What more could you want?
Anyway, seems like your path is straight forward. Take TWF feats. You are naturally a skill monkey becauses ninjas have a lot of skills. As long as you can full attack and SA, you'll be doing good damage. Until you get the greater invis trick, this means you need to flank. Often not that hard if your party cooperates and understands it's more important for you to get flanks than it is for most other party members.
Your ki has an in-built sprint mode. I'm not talking about the speed boost (though that is the more literal sprint). I mean the extra attack when FAing for 1 ki.
Are you going to get to level 20 in this game? Because the ninja capstone is great, but if you don't get there, you don't need to worry about it. I'd suggest getting to Ninja 10 with as few diversions as possible for the greater invis trick. My current ninja has some monk thrown in, because I wanted to do unarmed and defense, then grow more slowly into damage. I definitely want greater invis ASAP though.
I'm not a big fan of Assassinate, though I haven't actually used it. It seems only good as an opener in an ambush.
the ninja has a master trick that allows her unarmed strikes to be treated as monk unarmed strikes of her level -4. Another trick allows you to Flurry with shuriken. But i look at a Ninja and realize it's a Rogue-Plus. All my rogues i've made have been ranged damage, and their damage sucked; to the point i was literally just a servant to the rest of the party (oddly enough what you can do in combat affects your character status). I'd rather not go through that again, and i hear a TWF rogue is the way to go. But i've found nothing to guide me along that path so . . . i made this thread ^_^
Yea, i've looked over and assassinate isn't that great. I like it more for flavour purposes since it's relatively useless in combat (after all, aren't ninja's supposed to be known for their one-strike kills?)
And whiel the Ninja master trick is nice, the players im used to hate it when they can't find their skill monkey; which usually results in them meta-gaming a way around the "undetectable" part of the master ability. And no DM i've played with will ever allow a character to be truely "undetectable".
I am playing a ninja and I am multiclassing him with monk for 4 levels using MARTIAL ARTIST variant from Ult. Combat, there are some form feats in that book (mantis or snake jump to mind) that mesh well with ninja
ideally i want to keep the ki pool, since the monk ki pool stacks with the ninja's
Edited: Typo
Well, if you expect the ability is going to be nerfed by your group, you can't really call it worse than other capstones :P
Master tricks are too far off to base a build on. And Monks get loads of bonus feats really early for unarmed fighting, as well as the ability to use Wis instead of Cha for the ki pool (I like having good will saves on all my characters. Low will saves mean you're a pretty target for mental compulsions. And that means you don't get to play your character). Monks also get Evasion which a ninja misses out on normally, unless you get the ring, or burn a master trick. And Monk has built in TWF (well, sorta. You can't advance it unless you stay monk, but eh).
The other thing is, Cha isn't going to be your best stat. It's probably going to be 3rd after your Str and Dex. So I don't expect much of the DC.
If you go down the TWF tree, it will make shuriken an excellent option after you get the greater invis trick. You'll have a very easy time of making full attacks with greater invis, as long as they don't run for the hills (ie get further than 30ft away), you just 5ft step each turn. You could get Flurry of Stars if you want to focus in it, but I think just the basic +1 attack function of ki is good enough if you don't focus in it.
And why would your party be angry that they can't find you in combat? It's not like you're going to always be in Hidden Master mode. Only for fights that are worth the 3 ki burn.
Bonus: Ranged damage is a pretty bad way sneak attack classes to go, if they're not using greater invis. You have no reliable way of getting your sneak attack damage. 4e has a feat for this, that gives ranged characters the benefits of flanking against targets that their allies are flanking. I think it's a good fix, but there's no official pathfinder version (as far as I know), so you'd have to homebrew it.
Edit: I'm playing a Monk3/Ninja4, currently. We're expecting to play into epic though.
It's a long and complicated story, but essentially ended with the Battle-cleric casting a Permanent Light spell on my rogue so i couldn't sneak attack or stealth anymore.
It's a long and complicated story, but essentially ended with the Battle-cleric casting a Permanent Light spell on my rogue so i couldn't sneak attack or stealth anymore.
Permanency isn't even on the cleric spell list, he would have needed to get a scroll of that just to do that. And that doesn't remove your ability to sneak attack when flanking. Also, you can't cast Light on a person, only on an object.
So, mechanics aside, why did he take hostile action against you? Were you doing anything anti-party such as stealing extra treasure for yourself to warrant this? If not, this is an issue that needs to be discussed out of game.
It was a 3.5 game so different mechanics : /. I wasn't anti-party. I didn't steal treasure, and i didn't antagonize the party. Essentially, I had a flat out maxed stealth skill, and he didn't like my stealth beating his perception checks when he wanted me for something. In hism ind i was only good for a few things:
1) Setting off traps and ambushes; basically taking damage so he didn't have to.
2) As a skill monkey/servant. I took a lot of damage, and spent a lot of battles unconcious because he preferred to hit things with his sword rather then heal the other party members stupid enough to get knocked unconcious. Needless to say he kept putting my rogue on the front lines (and i was primarily an archer rogue).
Anyways im not really into discussing my bad party experiances. I want to be somebody the party looks upon as an equal rather then some skill monkey who was barely worth his daily ratons.
It was a 3.5 game so different mechanics : /. I wasn't anti-party. I didn't steal treasure, and i didn't antagonize the party. Essentially, I had a flat out maxed stealth skill, and he didn't like my stealth beating his perception checks when he wanted me for something. In hism ind i was only good for a few things:
1) Setting off traps and ambushes; basically taking damage so he didn't have to.
2) As a skill monkey/servant. I took a lot of damage, and spent a lot of battles unconcious because he preferred to hit things with his sword rather then heal the other party members stupid enough to get knocked unconcious. Needless to say he kept putting my rogue on the front lines (and i was primarily an archer rogue).Anyways im not really into discussing my bad party experiances. I want to be somebody the party looks upon as an equal rather then some skill monkey who was barely worth his daily ratons.
Well, if he wants to sabotage you, he will. Your archer rogue may have been bad in combat, but he went out of his way to make you worse. And how did he put your character on the front lines? You have control of where your character goes. If he tries this again, discuss this out of game. I would not want to play with a player like the one you're describing, and I should hope your group would agree that his actions were inappropriately hostile.
You should have few problems being competent, if your party cooperates and helps you flank. Flanks give most people +2 to hit, they give you +2 to hit and +xd6 damage. It's clear who benefits more.
It was a 3.5 game so different mechanics : /. I wasn't anti-party. I didn't steal treasure, and i didn't antagonize the party. Essentially, I had a flat out maxed stealth skill, and he didn't like my stealth beating his perception checks when he wanted me for something. In hism ind i was only good for a few things:
1) Setting off traps and ambushes; basically taking damage so he didn't have to.
2) As a skill monkey/servant. I took a lot of damage, and spent a lot of battles unconcious because he preferred to hit things with his sword rather then heal the other party members stupid enough to get knocked unconcious. Needless to say he kept putting my rogue on the front lines (and i was primarily an archer rogue).Anyways im not really into discussing my bad party experiances. I want to be somebody the party looks upon as an equal rather then some skill monkey who was barely worth his daily ratons.
skill monkeys are valuable. i think it's more of a problem that your group focuses too heavily on combat.
combat numbers aren't everything.
and rogues don't really make good archers anyway.
personally, i would rather have a skill monkey than a 4th combat monster.
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Alright, Instead of fumming through a @#$%ton of pages wondering how to ensure my Ninja can pull his weight in my campaign, I've decided it's far more effective to turn to the experiance of the Paizo community to help me out. How do i make a well-rounded ninja that can not suck in melee, have generally useful abilities, and still do enough damage to feel like im actually roleplaying a ninja?
I'll be back in about 24 hours. Lemme know what works plz.
Just make one. lol
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It's a long and complicated story, but essentially ended with the Battle-cleric casting a Permanent Light spell on my rogue so i couldn't sneak attack or stealth anymore.
You are supposed to kill characters like that, then find someone who will take it off later. Don't put up with your party's nonsense, he's making part of your job literally impossible by doing that, so you take him out of the equation for inconveniencing you, he has to sleep sometime, and he obviously isn't expecting any form of retribution from you.
You do not antagonize the guy who specializes in murdering people outright, especially when he has all the tools to do it with ease, and you live with that guy.
Get combat expertise and gang up, this will save you a lot of effort trying to get into position, and allows you to wreck people standing in corners. You also get the added benefit of being able to flip over to a more defensive stance when you start getting beaten up, standing in a fight getting more attacks, even with a big minus to it, is better than getting knocked out, and not getting any attacks.
It's a long and complicated story, but essentially ended with the Battle-cleric casting a Permanent Light spell on my rogue so i couldn't sneak attack or stealth anymore.You are supposed to kill characters like that, then find someone who will take it off later. Don't put up with your party's nonsense, he's making part of your job literally impossible by doing that, so you take him out of the equation for inconveniencing you, he has to sleep sometime, and he obviously isn't expecting any form of retribution from you.
Murdering people you work with is generally frowned upon by professionals. Consider just telling him not to be an ass, and that if he doesn't remove it from you, free of charge, you are leaving. If he doesn't, leave, possibly with something valuable of his.
Haha I would, but he's one of those characters who are optimized to protect against everything. Not to mention he has an unsocial sorcerer and a vampire wizard who treated me almost the same as he did (the latter using my character as lunch, eventually). The party was divided basically in to two groups: those who were spellcasters (AKA Cleric Sorcerer Wizard) and those who weren't (my rogue and a dwarf ranger). There was a fighter that was pretty much the other front lines guy (he kept his distance when not in combat). It eventually boiled down to 'spells are so much better then martial skills, therefore spellcasters are clearly better then martial characters. You did what the spellcasters said, otherwise they use those mind-control spells and other stuff on you to make you do what they said.
But im not in that campaign anymore (and yea the group was way too combat focused). I've moved onto 4th Ed after that, then i went to Pathfinder; and that's where im at now. So im looking for some advice for some help optimizing the Ninja. I know some things that look good on paper, but i want to know what truely works for the class.
I guess it's worth asking: how does the two-weapon fighting rogue work?
I guess those players had no idea that others are supposed to have fun too?
Anyway. The TWF Rogue (much like the TWF Ninja) works by getting into flanking position, and full attacking each turn (Extra weapon = Extra Attacks = Extra Sneak Attack Damage). Hopefully you can stay in flanking position with a 5ft step each turn, otherwise you lose the benefits of the TWF feats.
Your AC will only be so-so probably, if you don't focus on it. Eventually, greater invis will be your shield. Until then, you can take the Offensive Defense (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/rogue-talents/paizo---r ogue-talents/offensive-defense-ex) talent (ninjas can take one rogue talent instead of a trick, and this is an excellent one, since dodge bonuses stack). You can also take the Shadow Clones trick, to play a different defense game than AC. This one's use depends on how many enemies are on the battlefield.
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Between me and a friend playing a ninja in a current campaign, we find that ninjas need to have a good look at their Ninja Tricks.
Ninja Tricks gives ninjas a wide selection of skills and powers, so take a good look and see which ones you will want/need. Combat Trick for example gives you an extra combat feat, useful if you want to go TWF.
Also, if you decided to go with a high Cha ninja to get the most Ki points, have a look at multi-classing 1 level into the Oracle.
The Lore Mysteries's Sidestep Secret (Su) and Nature Mysteries's Nature’s Whispers (Ex) lets you use your Cha in place of Dex for AC and Reflex/CMB respectively.
Also Lore Mysteries's Focused Trance and Lore Keeper are worth looking into if you want to be a knowledge monkey.
Hope this helps.
It's a long and complicated story, but essentially ended with the Battle-cleric casting a Permanent Light spell on my rogue so i couldn't sneak attack or stealth anymore.
Or you cover your exposed skin (assuming he cast it on you) or if it was cast on an item just remove said item or cover it. Light spell doesn't go through barriers.
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Murdering people you work with is generally frowned upon by professionals. Consider just telling him not to be an ass, and that if he doesn't remove it from you, free of charge, you are leaving. If he doesn't, leave, possibly with something valuable of his.It's a long and complicated story, but essentially ended with the Battle-cleric casting a Permanent Light spell on my rogue so i couldn't sneak attack or stealth anymore.You are supposed to kill characters like that, then find someone who will take it off later. Don't put up with your party's nonsense, he's making part of your job literally impossible by doing that, so you take him out of the equation for inconveniencing you, he has to sleep sometime, and he obviously isn't expecting any form of retribution from you.
Deliberately screwing over one of your team mates is a quick way to get fired by most professionals, in the US Army, it gets you shot, thrown in jail, or sometimes both.
@Writer:He's not protected against everything, I can guarantee that, he might make it seem like he is, but he isn't. You can kill him, it would just take a little bit of paying attention to do it. Also, don't play in games like that, they make the rest of us look incredibly bad.
Two-weapon fighting works like it does for everyone else, every bonus (including dice) you get for your main hand applies to your offhand, unless stated otherwise, like strength. You don't need to flank to use it, but it does help, since you need to hit anyway.
I highly recommend not actually taking combat trick, you can get far more use out of it using forgotten trick to mimic it for a few rounds every day. Forgotten trick is the single best ninja trick in the book, the sheer number of options it opens up for you is truly staggering, especially if you don't take combat trick, though you should pick up a handful of feats (combat expertise, combat reflexes, power attack, improved unarmed strike) to really get some crazy stuff going on.
Alright, Instead of fumming through a @#$%ton of pages wondering how to ensure my Ninja can pull his weight in my campaign, I've decided it's far more effective to turn to the experiance of the Paizo community to help me out. How do i make a well-rounded ninja that can not suck in melee, have generally useful abilities, and still do enough damage to feel like im actually roleplaying a ninja?
I'll be back in about 24 hours. Lemme know what works plz.
Real (historical/legendary) Ninja are basically monk/{other class} where {other class} indicates their specialisation. Their monk skills have heavy emphasis on stealth, most would have levels in disguise too.
That's it.
I think they were probably rogues with fighter or ranger levels, really. Monks have a few supernatural abilities that I doubt "historical" ninjas had.
The rogue class is sadly underrated. Perhaps now the ninja archetype has ki, the rogue could have some intangible bonus mechanic, like the Inspiration from the 3.5 factotum - several times per day the rogue might be particularly lucky on a skill check, get a bonus to AC or reroll a saving throw.
@the OP: Have you ever considered the sap mastery ninja?
Picture this: At 5th level, you can do, with your unarmed strike, conservatively 1d3+6d6+9 subdual damage, more or less at will (you'll have to take the scout archetype, which is a rogue archetype, but your DM seems the reasonable sort).
It kind of duplicates the trope of a ninja rushing up to someone, hitting them once, and then the person collapsing.
If you're interested, I can direct you to a build for such.
prototype00
Alright, Instead of fumming through a @#$%ton of pages wondering how to ensure my Ninja can pull his weight in my campaign, I've decided it's far more effective to turn to the experiance of the Paizo community to help me out. How do i make a well-rounded ninja that can not suck in melee, have generally useful abilities, and still do enough damage to feel like im actually roleplaying a ninja?
I'll be back in about 24 hours. Lemme know what works plz.
Really? All these suggestions and no one let him in on the big one to making an effective ninja?
Here is a break down for your first two levels:
LvL 1 : Ninja
LvL 2 : Rogue
LvL 3-20 : Ninja or whatever.....
If you want to actually contribute you need Trapfinding. Its the single best party skill a rogue has and the one thing a ninja doesn't get. The good news... one level of rogue gets you Trapfinding and gives you an extra 1d6 sneak attack.
As for multiclassing into fighter or monk or whatever. It depends on what you really want to do. If you multi too much your going to have a crappy sneak attack progression. I know there are arch types that progress sneak attack. The Alchemist has one, ect.... but I would stick to Ninja... they get some really great abilities and dont need a ton of multiclassing to be effective.
If you want to be more rugged then I would suggest Eldritge Heritage (Stone). You can some Natural Armor,and a +6 inherent con bonus.
Two weapon fighting is the best choice for a Sneak Attack build. Some helpful feats have already been mentioned.
Main thing is to play your character the way you want to play. And if that cleric messes with you again... he should disappear one night while on watch... just make sure you where supposed to go on watch before him and have a good enough bluff to tell everyone you woke him up and went to sleep after your shift. Really you kill him in his sleep and drag him off to cliff/river/wolf den. Everyone wakes up the next day to find him missing. Problem solved.
Except you can't?
An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.
And ninja is the alternate class of the rogue.
prototype00
Also YMMV on Trapfinding. Anyone can find traps now, it's just disabling them requires Trapfinding. My DM allowed my ninja to swap poison use (bookkeeping, expensive) for Trapfinding (situational usefulness), yours might allow you the same swap.
Forgotten Trick costs 2 ki to emulate something, plus the ki to actually use that ability unless it's a passive thing. Unless you have a 5 minute day, that's actually not that great. It was much better when it cost 1 ki, and some tricks had the first use per day free (in the playtest version).
Also, killing the character of a problem player won't solve anything, because the player is the problem. If you are unlucky enough to have a repeat experience, discuss that you are unhappy. Killing their PC will only beget more of the same, and derail the game.
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I would have figured that talking to the player, warning them that dick moves like that are going to get their characters killed, is probably a good start, but you should really discuss it with both that player and that GM. Besides, that character sounds like a burden on the rest of the party.
Player 1:"I cast permanent light on player 2."
Player 2:"I'm a stealth character, why would you do that?"
Player 1:"Your stealth bonus is higher than my perception bonus is."
Player 2:"...I'm sorry.... what? You do realize, that if you do this, your character is forfeiting their life right? Also: nice metagaming, jerk."
Player 1:"Your character can't kill mine, I'm a cleric."
Player 2:"Clerics have to sleep don't they? You will run out of spells eventually and my character will kill yours for making his job impossible."
Player 1:*refutes the fact that his character is killable
Player 2:"Alright, but when your character turns up dead, don't say I didn't warn you."
Later:
Player 2:"Okay, my character is fed up with player 1's character, I'm going to kill him in his sleep."
GM:"Sigh.... fine, tell me how."
Player 2:*Tries to think of all the ways a cleric can defend themselves and a method to get around each of those ways.
(If acceptable)GM:"Okay, he's dead. Happy now?"
(If not)GM:"We'll have to deal with that next time."
Next time:
GM:"Okay, Player 1, give me your character sheet.
Player 1:"Why?"
GM:"Because I want to look it over."
Player 1:*obliges, if he doesn't, GM should warn him that he's not going to tolerate children around the table, and he can hand over the character sheet or be asked to not come back.
GM:"Okay, Player 2, this is Player 1's inventory. Now, if this continues on any further, I'm going to ask that neither of you come back to this game. End of discussion.
Typically, the forgotten trick is reserved for when you need an ability, but you don't need the ability all the time, like one of the party members gets hit with confusion, you can take improved grapple (if you have the required feat) to let you hold them down, instead of having to fight them, provoke attacks of opportunity, or whatever you may have to do. Yes it eats up a lot of ki, but it's totally worth it for the sheer flexibility.
Except you can't?
An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.And ninja is the alternate class of the rogue.
prototype00
Ba... I forgot we house rule that. Core classes, base classes, alternate classes... there all friggin 20 level base classes.
Anywho as to killing another PC's character... hopefully you explain to him why you are killing his character. And hopefully he wont be a douche bag when he rolls up the next one. Or at least wont be able to persist light you.
Well there are a lot of great tricks to choose from two of my favorites for the lower level ones are vanishing trick and Pressure points.
Vanishing trick is great for getting sneak attack at low levels also it allows you to safely move into flank position.
Pressure points gets ugly when you can’t start getting multiple sneak attacks per round.
Once you get invisible blade or improved invisibility from a friend you can seriously whittle down someone’s stats.
I think it is particularly funny when it is combined with flurry of stars. Allowing after 10th level to take out 5 or more strength or dex per round. The larger the creature the more likely their dex is lowered significantly because of their size. Once a creature is reduced to 0 strength or dex they are paralyzed.
I recently saw a 500hp monster get paralyzed in the second round of combat and still have way too many hp left.
It also works well with two weapon fighting and flank or greater invis.
If you have int 13 or greater the combo of combat expertise and Gang up is nice allowing you to flank far more often. Even when throwing shurikens
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I would have figured that talking to the player, warning them that dick moves like that are going to get their characters killed, is probably a good start, but you should really discuss it with both that player and that GM. Besides, that character sounds like a burden on the rest of the party.
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Exactly. Explain why and hopefully the DM can control the situation. Its been rare that we have in game player vs player. The few times though it was very warented and our group is mature enough to not let in game stuff effect our out of game friendships. The player that ended up loosing just rerolled and we moved on.
Funny side note: The last death. In a 3.5 game. We had a Ninja of the Cresent Moon who took side jobs to assassinate people. He didnt let the rest of the party know cause we where generally all good. Wizard finds out... blackmails him into letting him in on the jobs. They do a job and then head to a seedy bar with a fight ring. The rest the party has no Idea where they are or even that they are together. They had spoken only rarely. He convinces the wizard to enter get drunk, get in the ring vs him "for fun", and proceeds to beat him sinceless. The player of the wizard laughes it off untill the player of the Ninja looks at the DM and says "Ok i drag him out back of the bar and Coup de grâce him. The whole group was stunned. The guy playing the Wizard was like "Why!". He looks at him and says "You dont mess with a mans side job... expecially if that side job is killing people for money."
Was pure win. We couldnt play for 30 minutes cause we where all in tears... including the guy that lost his toon.
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Except you can't?
An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save that a character who takes a level in an alternate class can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa.And ninja is the alternate class of the rogue.
prototype00
How about using a Trapper Ranger or a Sandman Bard instead?
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You can build a really effective sniper mixing Ninja and Fighter. I did a few different mixes of the two for a 10th level character. This one is F7(Weapon Master)/N3
feats are:
Deadly aim
Many shot
Point Blank Master
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Quick Draw
Rapid Shot
Snap Shot
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Dirty Fighter -Trait
Surprise Attack - Ninja Trick
+1 Long Bow (+3 Str) with Deadly Aim is +17/+12 at 1D8+14
a key piece of Equipment Sniper Goggles, cant recommend those enough, Ranged SA at any range, plus +2 to each SA dice within 30ft.
I built a F4 (Brawler)/N5 member of a proposed ninja group, it relies on Teamwork feats, the entire party would pretty much have these feats.
Combat Expertise
Gang Up
Outflank
Power Attack
Precise Strike
Sap Adept
Sap Master
WF Sap
WSp Sap
With a 20 str you'll do 1D6+15 with Power Attack, like above poster said you can pull 6D6+6 Sap damage on a flat footed opponent. Take Pressure Points or Bleeding Attack, for something extra. With Gang Up and Outflank you'll get SA all the time at a good bonus to hit.
We also have a proposed party of Monk/Ninja/Fighters that are focused on Imp Trip and Vicious Stomp, add on Gang Up and Paired Opportunist a party of these guys is gets ridiculous. anyhows, lots of choices and things to think about!