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Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?


Advice

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Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

What do you all think? Thank you.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

How often? Stealing a magical amulet now and then? Or every time?

Either way, "Is it 'in character' for ... " is going to be the new "Is it Evil if...".

Shadow Lodge

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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

What do you all think? Thank you.

i say it like this out of game, if i find out your skimming treasure from my character, IT will act accordingly. I will not kill your character, it will be an in game roleplaying decision.

basically if you stole $500,000 from someone who kills for a living, don't be surprised if they KILL YOU.


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He's doing both actually. Roleplaying is not a defense against in-game retaliation for in-game actions. Expecting to get away with something solely because of the invisible PLAYER CHARACTER tattooed on your forehead is the most infuriating sort of metagaming there is, IMO. Ask yourself, what would the PCs do if a hireling or NPC were to do this? Expect no better treatment if a PC happens to be the offender.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Skimming trinkets for RP purposes I don't mind as long as he somehow makes it up (e.g. taking a risk to get the party some other treasure), but taking expensive items, no.

As a player I understand that Rogues take more risk than others when they disarm traps and lead the party though dangerous dungeons, so I don't mind "donating" some of the party treasure for his trouble.

A 5-10% Rogue Tax on party treasure is ok in my book.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ElyasRavenwood wrote:
Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

Yes on both accounts.

ElyasRavenwood wrote:
If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

I would say no. I've had a couple players that have done this sort of thing with their rogue characters. The other players have never found it distasteful even, but have rolled with it. However, if another character should find out that said rogue is skimming from the group, the player of the rogue had best be willing to deal with the consequences.

Nothing worse than a player willing to commit the crime, but unwilling to face the music when caught at it. I'd suggest you simply make it clear to the player that (s)he had better not start crying if justice is meted out by his table mates.

ElyasRavenwood wrote:
How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

Keep it in-character, I say. It's all in good fun.

ElyasRavenwood wrote:
And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

I would say no, for the same reason as above. However, this could probably change from group to group. Those who have been playing together for a while probably are more apt to be understanding of character flaws such as this. If it's a new group you're dealing with, then it would probably be best if some discussion out of character took place just to get a measure of how everyone feels about it. If the general consensus is that such actions will prove to be more distraction than it's worth, it'd probably be best to put a stop to it.

Shadow Lodge

harmor wrote:

Skimming trinkets for RP purposes I don't mind as long as he somehow makes it up (e.g. taking a risk to get the party some other treasure), but taking expensive items, no.

As a player I understand that Rogues take more risk than others when they disarm traps and lead the party though dangerous dungeons, so I don't mind "donating" some of the party treasure for his trouble.

A 5-10% Rogue Tax on party treasure is ok in my book.

oh no no no, a rogue dosent take any more risks then any other class. a fighter runs into a mob of enemies while the rogue holds action to flank. in more combats the "fighter" will receive the majority of attacks.

so its a balance of type of risks.


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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

What do you all think? Thank you.

I had a player like that in one of my groups. He consistently took the more expensive items so he could sell them to make magic items. He did this even when the item he found could benefit another player, and would absolutely refuse to give the item up, in and out of game. It got to the point where he spent 30,000 gold to make a magic item, while I only had about 3,000 after having saving gold over the course of about a month.

If you have a greedy rogue, teach him a lesson by putting a cursed item in the next few treasure chests. So long as he doesn't have Detect Magic, he'll have to start relying on his party members just to safely access a new items. You can also have the owner of an item he found come looking for his property. OR you can implement a system that evenly distributes items among party members. It takes time out of the game, but it works. That's how I stopped the hoarder in my group.


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ElyasRavenwood wrote:
And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

No more than you would telling the other players that they can't take incharacter actions against the rogue that has been stealing from the group…


Oh, is he stealing items from other players, too? I'd have the party wizard baleful polymorph his ass, take his treasure, and throw it in an extradimensional space. Just for good measure. I played a Rogue and never took more than my share, even when the GM said I could since I was in charge of keeping track and distributing treasure and gold. In my opinion, treasure should ALWAYS be split evenly among players so each can enjoy their respectively new items.


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Depends what he's skimming.
Do they find bag with 1000 gp in it and he takes 10 or 20 for himself? No problem
Do they find a bunch of magic items and he graps the dagger, armor amulet, sneaky cloak before the rest of the group enters the room, then he's pushing it too far.

Cheliax

Had a player who did this with his rogue in a Living Forgotten Realms mod, my cleric never bothered to throw him a heal.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

A rogue secretly taking more than his share is akin to a gang member holding back his earnings from his superiors.

In other words, an idiot.

Silver Crusade

I say let him do what his character would do. And when the others find out, if they haven't already, well....that cleric should ask for a 'donation' to his church for any healing, the wizard could ask for payment for magical protection, the bard could demand 'tips' for his performance buffs to effect him too. If this character demands to do this for roleplaying purposes, remind the other players that they have aces up their sleeves as well and that gold & magic is obviously this character's weakness.


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I don't think you guys are giving him enough credit. It takes a very brave individual to steal from a group of people that just killed all the possible witnesses.

Cheliax

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Eh the problem I have with it is, by and large I see way too commonly that people suddenly play the role play card when it comes to rogues stealing party resources. The better question is does the player ever roleplay with his other characters?

Sometimes it seems the person just wants to rip the party off and so the rogue conveniently fits.

Shadow Lodge

sirmattdusty wrote:
I say let him do what his character would do. And when the others find out, if they haven't already, well....that cleric should ask for a 'donation' to his church for any healing, the wizard could ask for payment for magical protection, the bard could demand 'tips' for his performance buffs to effect him too. If this character demands to do this for roleplaying purposes, remind the other players that they have aces up their sleeves as well and that gold & magic is obviously this character's weakness.

as the GM YOU should not get involved, i cant stress this enough. it is the players responsibility to clear this matter up them selves. a player should not be punished or stopped from harming,killing,stealing back from the rogue, etc.. and if that player with the rogue needs to roll up a new character, it was an eventuality. at that point you (the GM) need to prevent a player from making a character to get "revenge" for his charters death. let him know it was a "no hard feelings, but you reap what you sow"

situation. im going through this in my current game.

this is the ultimatum im going to present to the rogue: i caught you stealing, if i catch you again you're out of the party.

Cheliax

Heh I will say if he's a teen he may outgrow it, I know when we did a lotta gaming in high school it was about 50% tryin to screw other party members heh ;p


Both.

I played in a game where one player played a drow and another player, at least as he tells it, had it in his character background that his family was killed by drow and he has a psychotic hatred of drow. First session player 2 player killed player 1.

What he roleplaying his character? No doubt.
Was he being a colossal dick? Absolutely.

Shadow Lodge

As long as its under 5% its role playing.

Andoran

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It's roleplaying -- just like it's roleplaying when my not-good fighter grabs him, shackles him to an anvil, and tosses him off a bridge to see if his Escape Artist while making drowning fort-saves is up to snuff. After all, I don't want to adventure with a sub-standard rogue, so there gotta be tests for the applicants.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In those situations I'm a big believer of "what goes around, comes around." What's to say that the Rogue doesn't get his pocket picked, or shaken down by thugs, or any number of "accidents." Don't screw him over or anything, at least give him a shot to see what's coming, but more than one thief has learned the hard way that they're valid targets too. And they won't be able to tell the party about it either, unless they want their skimming to be brought out in the open.

Cheliax

In character, allow the members a chance to detect this skimming,as it continues allow them to add intelligence modifiers since things are not"adding up". Once they figure it out, they can call him out, he might try a bluff, the cleric can sense motive. Then its 1 rog vs group, at that point his character would probably not be a moron and return the ill gotten goods, or be cast-out/turned in/beaten/killed/tortured depending on the groups alignment.


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What I do about it depends… mostly on the character I’m playing and her relationship with the rogue.

In all my time gaming, I’ve only caught one rogue in the act. She (the character, not the player) was new to the party and this was her first opportunity to steal from us. My character was the only one that saw her take the extra handful of gold. I gave her the raised eyebrow (hehe Didn’t think the wizard with ADD tendencies had such good perception did ya?). She about sh*t her pants. I never said a word, just kept a close eye on her for a while. She knew if certain other party members found out, she’d be done for. Those lawful honorable types tend to take that sort of thing very personally. Lucky for her the wizard was the laid-back neutral sort that didn’t care about a few gold here and there. She'd had the opportunity to take the obviously magical dagger, but just went for a bit of the gold.


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He's cheating the rest of the party members as well as the other players; he's stealing resources from the party and some of the enjoyment from the players. Pathfinder and D&D are not competitive games, they are cooperative games.

If the rogue player wants to role play his character as a pick pocket or shop lifter, let him do it against the NPCs, who after all didn't invest time and money to playing the game and won't resent him for it outside the game.

As a DM, I've always been against anything that causes people to leave the table with hard feeling towards a fellow gamer. A player in my game stole a ring from treasure and more than a decade later other players in the group still remember it. They aren't resentful of his rogue, they're resentful of the player himself because they trusted him. This game requires trust around the table. You can't see everyone's dice rolls, so you trust them to have actually rolled a "hit" when they say they did, to erase the gold off their sheet when the party all chips in to buy potions, and to see that everyone gets an equal share of the rewards for the risks they took as a party.

Shadow Lodge

ElyasRavenwood wrote:
Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

that is totally a perspective type deal... it could be both/neither/or one or the other

Quote:


If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

in the beginning, no... after awhile, 'hey, cleric, give me a perception check will ya?'

after a long while 'hey rogue, you've been with these guys for this long, sharing stories and blood... how do you feel about this..? how do you think they'll feel? the thought really pounding in your head might be the 'i don't feel right doing this to these guys' and so you have to decide to share or make yourself scarce to make easy money elsewhere...' sometimes you just have to remind a player what his character has gone through and might be thinking

Quote:


How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

I make perception checks. Depending on my alignment would justify my actions... neutral would prolly make me ask for cuts... lawful would demand everyone know and debate what to do from there. Chaotic would prolly punch a fool and laugh about what is going on under everyone's noses

Quote:


And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

only the GM should be able to assist in helping the player "role play" his character. Everyone else can react. And the rogue can react. all in character. and if lead right by the GM it wont get ugly but make for some fun role playing later on down the road. And who says I didn't get caught on purpose so I could better hone my skills at thieving?

there's several coppers to throw into the bucket


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Also an important thing is this:
Do your other PLAYERS know? Not their characters, the players themselves.
Or is he doing it secretly even from them, by note, text message, secret meeting in advance ("Listen, each time, I'm going to steal a bit of it"), or PbP game where it can be kept secret?

Because if the players know what he's doing, and don't really seem to care then you as GM should defnitely not get invovled. Apperently all is good.
If your other players since that started suddenly make sure they're nearby when the rogue finds the treasure when they've never done it before, then you can assume they're not actually ok with it. Then you might bring it up in private with the rogue, to maybe cut it down a bit, or stop entirely.

If the players do not know, make sure to give characters that have a realistic chance of seeing it a perception check. (That part also counts it they know of course)
If the rogue player is really going out of his way to keep the other PLAYERS from finding out in the first place, you can assume he knows what he does is wrong, and you should talk to him.

Trust IC is something you can lose easily, and that can be just part of the game. If the players lose trust to each other OOC, then your game will begin breaking apart.

Andoran

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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

First off, likely even before characters are created I would tend to discuss with everyone what is acceptable behaviour and whether it would spoil a player's enjoyment for such a thing to happen. If it would, then it shouldn't happen in game - real world enjoyment trumps in game characterisation.

If all players would be cool with it, I would still warn the rogue player that should his character be caught it may be in character for the others to disassociate themselves from him (or worse) and the player would need to make another character because as GM I am not running two games. If the player still wants to run that risk, fine.

Not quite the same situation but in a recent D&D Eberron 4e game one player is playing a "No mercy" type character who was insistent on killing a foe who was surrendering. If nothing else my character (the wizard) wanted him alive for information, and the paladin also didn't want to see the foe murdered. The no mercy player was insistent and it looked as if in character argument may get to in character physical conflict.

At that point I asked out of character - "how is everyone with player versus player conflict?" I wanted to make sure I wouldn't be pissing that player off if he insisted in roleplaying his no mercy character and I in turn roleplayed my wizard to somehow try to restrain or stop him (likely requiring injuring him).

I also wanted to make it clear that if his character's no mercy roleplaying was going to be allowed that I might actually give up on my current character and play a new character more in line with the mercenary attitude - was the GM okay with that seeing as how I was one of the prophecised group and would the other PCs be happy with two murderous thugs in the party?

In the end the player relented for the time being.

This is the type of good metagaming as it resolved the situation out of game.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

DM, you might explain to your fellow player the difference between 'no mercy' and 'no quarter'. ;)


Nimon wrote:


In character, allow the members a chance to detect this skimming,as it continues allow them to add intelligence modifiers since things are not"adding up". Once they figure it out, they can call him out, he might try a bluff, the cleric can sense motive. Then its 1 rog vs group, at that point his character would probably not be a moron and return the ill gotten goods, or be cast-out/turned in/beaten/killed/tortured depending on the groups alignment.

This.

Characters have stats for a reason. If the rogue has pumped everything into bluffs and sleight of hands.... then he should probably get away with it.

To clarify, (now that I have a little time...)

Why should the DM EVER step in? Does the DM keep track of the treasure? Does he tell you what weapons you should use and what boots to where that day?

If the rogue finds a pile of gold and cool little statue that he wants... then it 'falls into a pocket'. When the rogue comes back and shows all the treasure, then THAT is missing...

I don't see how that would even fall into DM territory... The DM doesn't distribute the treasue to the individual pcs and say who gets what ring... the Players divide it as they think fair.

Now again, if the other party members CATCH him, then he's going to have a SERIOUS issue. But as long as he isn't stupid... "Hey... I don't recognize that cloak, where'd you get that?" Or..."When did you become immune to fire??" You can't 'aquire' a new robe in the middle of a dungeon... But coins and nic-nacs??? Ohhh yeah, Fair game there...

I'll go on record that in OUR groups, magic stuff generally goes to whoever needs/can use it best. If a rogue ever stashed a +5 holy sword, and sold it on his own without telling the Paladin... I'd be VERY upset.... AND he's only hurting his OWN survivability and bringing down the whole group....

but cash/gems/other mundane valuables? That's part of being a 'thief-class'

Also trying to avoid the 'alignment issues' of course... Lawful characters wouldn't do that... They'd honor any spoken/unspoken agreement to share with the group. Neutral or Chaotic? Yeah, they'll get grubby fingers.


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"I'm just roleplaying my character"

What a pathetic excuse. We've probably all run into this scumbag, who thinks that he can steal from the party and call it "good roleplaying".

If I make an assassin who kills party members in their sleep, is that "good roleplaying"?

They've chosen a concept that is destructive to the party cohesion, and that is a douche move. Period.

The player needs to be told that when the party eventually discovers his trickery, he'll be stripped of all items, and then expelled from the party (if they don't kill him), so he better have a backup character waiting that has a better concept to take over, since this one is doomed.

Quote:
is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

I would give characters with high perception a chance to note that the rogue is gaining items that aren't accounted for. I would also change his alignment to evil if the behavior continued.

Out of character I would allow this concept just as quickly as I would allow any other concept which invites party conflict. It does not work well within the game.


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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

What do you all think? Thank you.

He is stealing and roleplaying, both. As others have said, though, when your character finds out, it's just as much roleplaying when you kill his character.

The player makes a choice about the character he wants to play. The simple fact is that this choice is independent of the roleplaying and, in some cases, it's simply not a conducive choice for group enjoyment. I say send a sharp and pointy message straight to the heart about how your character feels about thieves.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

What do you all think? Thank you.

Stealing from the party by way of roleplaying is still stealing from the party. So both.

Is it the DMs place to step in? Beyond giving the other PCs a fair and reasonable chance to notice the skimming then I'd say no not really, since this is an in character problem it should be dealt with in character by the other PCs. The only other thing I'd do as a DM is out of game make sure that the player understands that they've opened the door on other characters retaliating and that I as the DM will not protect him should that occur.

As a player I'm ok with this sort of behaviour so long as when the character gets caught they don't get pissy and try to throw up words like roleplaying and alignment as a defense. My barbarian doesn't understand those words. He does understand the word steal and guess what he does to thieves.

Were I playing said skimmer then no. No one else gets to tell me how to play my character. That being said I don't get to tell anyone else how to play theirs so when my theft earns me a phantasmal killer from the wizard I shut the hell up and roll my saves because my character has it coming.

Torger


At what point is grabbing some treasure stealing from the party? If a battle is in hand and the rogue is doing some snooping and grabs an item while the others mop up, is that stealing from the group?

What if the rogue is scouting ahead and comes across a chest in an empty room. He empties the contents into his BoH and tells noone. Is that stealing from the group?

I think if a rogue is looking to get first dibs on loot it's fair game. If a rogue is stealing everything not nailed down and leaving the rest of the group with nothing there's an issue. If a rogue is coming across treasure first than it's fair if he wants to grab something.

If players are meta gaming and talking about killing my rogue without passing perception checks I would be pissed. I had a player in my game going way out of character because my rogue took first dibs while others mopped up some spiders. He was making all these threats despite never passing a check and desptie the fact there was plenty of other treasure in the chest. Of course, there was no complaining when his wizard was tossed a magic ring I didn't have use for and that the rest of the group didn't know about.


I had a rouge who skimmed from the group. I handled all the appraisal, selling, and distribution of excess loot (as I had the skills and contacts to move stuff). I kept track of the party fund. When it came time to hand out gold, people would get a bag of 1,500 GP, rather then the 1,513 GP, 2 SP and 6 coppers that should have been their fair, mathematical split. Everyone knew I took a little off the top to keep the numbers even, but didn't care, in character or out. I handled all the player-side bookkeeping for the game and took a little extra for my trouble.

In a game I'm playing now we have a similar situation. Our rouge will put in the extra leg work to sell things with historical/special value to interested parties, rather then just dumping on the counter of the local blacksmith/magic mart. She gets a higher price, and pockets most of it. The party still gets the normal "book" value, or above, and she gets a bit of extra spending cash. It's not enough to blow the WBL guidelines, so it's all good. We don't ask what price she actually got; she put in the extra work and gets rewarded for it.

She does tend to pocket keys without telling us, but opening locked doors is part of her job.


lalallaalal wrote:

At what point is grabbing some treasure stealing from the party? If a battle is in hand and the rogue is doing some snooping and grabs an item while the others mop up, is that stealing from the group?

What if the rogue is scouting ahead and comes across a chest in an empty room. He empties the contents into his BoH and tells noone. Is that stealing from the group?

I think if a rogue is looking to get first dibs on loot it's fair game. If a rogue is stealing everything not nailed down and leaving the rest of the group with nothing there's an issue. If a rogue is coming across treasure first than it's fair if he wants to grab something.

If players are meta gaming and talking about killing my rogue without passing perception checks I would be pissed. I had a player in my game going way out of character because my rogue took first dibs while others mopped up some spiders. He was making all these threats despite never passing a check and desptie the fact there was plenty of other treasure in the chest. Of course, there was no complaining when his wizard was tossed a magic ring I didn't have use for and that the rest of the group didn't know about.

Of course, once you toss him a magic ring the rest of the group doesn't know about, he knows you've been acquiring extra...

What I find frustrating about this kind of thing is that it automatically throws it into the metagame. If the players know the rogue is doing this but their characters don't, good roleplayers will firewall that information and not act on it. They won't threaten, they won't try to keep an eye on the rogue etc, until they have a reason to do so in character.
The problem then comes when there is some evidence, but nothing conclusive. Maybe the rogue seems to have a little too much magic, whatever. Now my character has a small piece of circumstantial evidence from which to guess. If I didn't already know, then I might or might not suspect, but since I know it's very hard to tell when the evidence is enough to start taking action. Even if that action is just trying to confirm, by watching the rogue more closely.

If the rogue and GM handled it all in secret, not letting the other players know until and unless their characters found out, then the suspicions could come naturally and the whole thing would be less of a hassle.

In the past I've also had bad experiences with GMs not allowing our characters to act on any suspicion without hard evidence. Just a flat "You don't have any reason to do that."

Andoran

I have played with plenty of Rogues that skim from the party, often no one even knew until the campaign is finished. Butthen, the players who did this also tended to contribute the 'stolen goods' to the party. Generously paying for the inns and food, if he had taken some items that were magic he would secretly get them identified, but he would always offer up the items to the party when clearly it is useful to someone 'oh hey, btw, I stumbled accross this during a fight, completely forgot, you may like it Bob'

So, stealing during adventures I have no issue with, if he were to actually steal from the players AFTER loot, that I have a problem with.

But if you want to play a shady Rogue, be ready to accept that other players will RP their character. My Pally made it very clear that should the Rogue steal from the party this would be considered worthy of arrest or possible death for the Rogue - taking from the party means less loot for the team, means less items to be bought which means less able to accomplish the quest we are on. This is unacceptable.

Taldor

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ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Is a Rogue “skimming” treasure as he finds it “Role playing” or is he stealing from his adventuring companions?

If you have a player doing this, is this something you need to take care of as a GM?

How about if you are a player and another player is doing it? How do you deal with this?

And what if you are playing a rogue who is “Skimming”? does anyone have the right to tell you how to “role play” your character?

What do you all think? Thank you.

Oh noes, you mean the imaginary person is taking imaginary stuff from other people in their imagination. That's terrible, what's absolutely the worst thing is that there is no way for a DM to counteract it, nope, and there's no way to make sure that the rest of the people get their fair share in ways the rogue can't skim. Nope, this is wrong, that player is ruining everything for everyone and there is nothing that can be done about it. [/sarcarm]

Seriourly, players get upset over stuff like this? If the rogue in the game is skimming, I expect the DM to make sure the other players get their fair share either by having baddies who only carry one obviously magical powerful thing that can't be sleight of handed, like say a great axe. Or by having NPC interactions where the other players get things like gifts and such that the rogue has no way to get, so the only way this is an issue should be if you have no trust in your DM, or it's a DMPC doing the skimming.


@jeff

The wizard got his ring after all the belly aching and now he knows that my rogue is willing to share.

How come Tanis, Flint, and the rest of the group from the Dragonlance novels never roasted Tasslehoff alive? Tas was stealing everything from everybody all the time.

There are so many rogue hating topics here and this is just another way in which rogues are minimized. What's the fun in being a rogue if you're not palming a trinket or two with nobody noticing?


RP be darned... this is just something our group just does not do, ever. We explain this to new players.

It's an extension of our "Just because you are playing a game you don't get to be a tool" Rule.

You should not expect to have your version of "fun" at the expense of the "fun" of all the other players.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I played in a game where we started at about 10th level. A good portion of my WBL was spent on a BoH Type IV. When the entire group decided my character, a rogue, was to carry party loot and manage funds, I had no qualms. My character began altering other players knowledge as to the bags contents.

After a while people began asking about specific items in the bag. My character played it off and was able to maintain a confusing paper trail for each item. When my character died, the party all had a great laugh because of the mass amounts of wealth in the bag. They were happy to have it at that time and it was generally a nice surprise. ( kinda like a trust fund lol)

I wouldn't have maintained the ruse for the entire campaign because I would have grown fond of other characters over time. The character just didn't last that long.

I would play it out. Let whatever happens happen. If this character is the only type the player plays then you have a WHOLE different problem. Also don't let this continue for too long. Keep in mind, if he dies its party loot. Having Perception, Sense Motive, and Wisdom checks in place if things get too out of hand is a good idea.


I've played several greedy characters who would do such a thing, but I know the table is not a competition and that actually stealing from the group only leads to trouble, in and out of game, sure it can be a memorable roleplaying moment, but a lot of groups don't want to have to deal with inter-party conflicts. So I would do the following.

So I would suggest talking to him out of game about it as the DM. Tell him that he can keep on filching little things here and there, but he should keep his mind on helping the party. Use that loot to help the party with consumables and other useful items. Pick up all the tabs at the bars and inns, pay the informants for the group, buy the mules and gear for the next dungeon crawl and so on. That way the money you stole is still being used for the party as a whole, just the character gets the glory for being mr. moneybags and paying all the trivial stuff and even providing the party with a stockpile of potions, scrolls and other items.

this way everybody wins, the player gets to play his greedy character and get more coin, the group wins as that coin goes right back to them.

now this only works if the player is a responsible fellow and cares more about the groups fun instead of personal fun, and if that is the case, make sure the rest of the party is getting every Perception and Sense Motive check they deserve to find the rat


Treantmonk wrote:

"I'm just roleplaying my character"

What a pathetic excuse. We've probably all run into this scumbag, who thinks that he can steal from the party and call it "good roleplaying".

I respectfully disagree. As a GM I say, if a player's concept of his thief is to steal wherever he can, even if it is from his companions, so let him do it. It doesn't matter if it's two gems or half the treasury.

We run into this situation every few years (mostly with the one player who favorites halfling rogues...), and it is up to the other party members to sort it out. Does it seem that the opponents always have too little treasure? Does the rogue seem to live beyond his means? Do the others notice that he always seems to be the first to 'investigate' the battle scene / closet / basement? If you can answer all the questions with 'no', then the rogue is obviously doing a good job.
And if he steals half the dragon's treasury and gets away with it, then the other players congratulate him for pulling this off. If he doesn't, the other characters will probably kill him...

Of course, I can't speak for PFS, or games with a high fluctation of players. I play with the same guys since the dawn of time.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
lalallaalal wrote:

@jeff

The wizard got his ring after all the belly aching and now he knows that my rogue is willing to share.

How come Tanis, Flint, and the rest of the group from the Dragonlance novels never roasted Tasslehoff alive? Tas was stealing everything from everybody all the time.

Because he had Plot Immunity?

Because the writers controlling Tas were the same writers controlling the rest of the party, and handwaving away any repercussions?

Tas: "Hey, whaddayou know? I had a ring of lightning resistance. Sturm didn't have to die, after all!"

Everyone: <clutch their bellies in comical mirth> "Ho Ho! You are a one! What a little scamp!"


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Doing it without the express permission of the other players is being a dick and is unacceptable.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
hogarth wrote:
Doing it without the express permission of the other players is being a **** and is unacceptable.

Watch your language friend.

If people get THAT upset about in game actions go play a nonroleplaying game. As long as in game events DO NOT transition to out of game fights, it shouldnt be a problem.

RESOLVE IT IN CHARACTER. The player of a shady character should understand, except, and embrace the consequences of those actions without other players crying about it.


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So you must resolve everything in character even if the one player is having a great time and the others are all unhappy and frustrated and ready to quit the game and go play a board game or something as you suggest?

And once you've finally resolved it in character, that player brings in a new character who proceeds to do the same thing again because he had a great time and doesn't realize that everyone else is unhappy because we're all resolving it in character and not just talking to our friends about the problem?


Cpt. Caboodle wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:

"I'm just roleplaying my character"

What a pathetic excuse. We've probably all run into this scumbag, who thinks that he can steal from the party and call it "good roleplaying".

I respectfully disagree. As a GM I say, if a player's concept of his thief is to steal wherever he can, even if it is from his companions, so let him do it. It doesn't matter if it's two gems or half the treasury.

We run into this situation every few years (mostly with the one player who favorites halfling rogues...), and it is up to the other party members to sort it out. Does it seem that the opponents always have too little treasure? Does the rogue seem to live beyond his means? Do the others notice that he always seems to be the first to 'investigate' the battle scene / closet / basement? If you can answer all the questions with 'no', then the rogue is obviously doing a good job.
And if he steals half the dragon's treasury and gets away with it, then the other players congratulate him for pulling this off. If he doesn't, the other characters will probably kill him...

Of course, I can't speak for PFS, or games with a high fluctation of players. I play with the same guys since the dawn of time.

Everything the group has in its path is property of the group. Stealing of this amount of treasure is destroying the game the DM has set up because the balancing he has for his encounters are based on the group having that stuff.

There is no if and when here.
Every player could scam the other players off.

The cleric could take money for healing, the fighter could press some money so he doesn't try beating them up and protects them. The wizard could falsly identify the items or even save his spells in an encounter and kill of the group quickly once they are weakened to get their possessions plus the loot.

Will this lead to good games? I am still suprised some of you will answer this with a healthy "yes".

Shadow Lodge

thejeff wrote:

So you must resolve everything in character even if the one player is having a great time and the others are all unhappy and frustrated and ready to quit the game and go play a board game or something as you suggest?

And once you've finally resolved it in character, that player brings in a new character who proceeds to do the same thing again because he had a great time and doesn't realize that everyone else is unhappy because we're all resolving it in character and not just talking to our friends about the problem?

just read this one and the only thought was to either throw more communication to the friend OOC or find a NEW friend cause he just don't get it... this is supposed to be fun for EVERYONE or why do it?

Andoran

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
BornofHate wrote:


RESOLVE IT IN CHARACTER. The player of a shady character should understand, except, and embrace the consequences of those actions without other players crying about it.

If the characters actions spring from out of character causes, you can't resolve it in character.

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