Dain's King Maker Chronicles Discussion


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Sir Bronwyn wrote:

But can some of them be NPC-classed and some PC?

I mean, his "entourage" consists of mostly serving women, but his father is a seasoned hunter and animal-handler (I'm thinking ranger). Also, if by this time the kobolds have knighted me, I'd like to begin training a squire. Seeing as I've trained a few of the younger lads during the winter time, I'd like to gauge their interests and talents, and find one that's talented (or maybe has a hidden talent) and willing. Maybe Rand Davis from Oleg's Garrison or, ideally, Christopher Ironhorse (he has around the right age and looks promising as a warrior).

As you mention it; yes, you can have your guys go either 3 levels NPC, or 1 level Regular Class, your choice for each.

And the kobolds certainly HAVEN'T knighted you. That is a lengthy process that takes much more then a few months during the winter. They have been training you, though. You will gradually be knighted, after tests and trials. Such a knight is almost a prestige class, though. You have specific qualifications to make and earn - including a knowledge of history, religion, and other things as well. More on that tomorrow.

The lads you suggested seem reasonable, but Rand is not for hire, as he currently works the Squire Kaid; who dispatched them to assist Oleg in the growth and protection of Oleg's land. But he can't quit his post until the Squire Kaid releases him from the service of House Kaid.

Chris will most likely be more willing; however, Chris has spent the entire winter with Brett riding about exploring terrain and scouting. Suposedly Brett has engaged Sarah, Chris, and Billy. They hae been paid good coin out of Brett's pocket and have been working for him exclusively for him.

Don't worry, though... More NPC types are comming once things are better situated.


Sir Bronwyn wrote:
The problem is I lost the file which had the NPCs stubs (name, race, and general history and purpose). I remember both Bronwyn's parents, and three different women, but I'm wondering on expand that to a guard (probably a 1st-level fighter) and a little brother or sister to Bronwyn (without class levels at this point, at the age of 8 or 9). Mind if I redefine them?

Not at all; please do re-write them. However, I thought your parents were long dead or something, which was why you decided to adopt Alaric's name? Was I mistaken on this point; because if your parents are traveling with you, it just seemed strange that you would turn your back on their very name while they rode around with you.

If I am mistaken on this point, let me know, but it is something I was curious on.

Other then that, feel free to re-boot the characters from scratch as you see fit. Since they have not formally been "established", you can do what you feel is best for you characters backstory. Please let me know about your parents though; that was the one point I am not sure on...


Male Human Cavalier 3

Actually, as my parents are both extremely lowborn, neither have actual surnames. They are still alive and quite well; the whole getting me-out-of-the-dungeons scheme was actually Bronos' idea. I'm still comitting to paper the background of these NPCs, but Bronos' is almost finished (there's a sample below).

Bronos:

Bronos is a simple man, raised on the tenets of Erastil and the values of "hard work breed honest men". He was born in a farm on the Medvyed lands, the third son of his household, and was constantly bullied by his brothers for his wiry frame and skinny arms and legs. The boy had known early that he would only have what he built for himself, for his older brother would inherit most of the farm, and his second brother the rest.

While his brothers worked on the crops and grains, Bronos would handle the farm animals, be it making sure the mule would stay healthy and pull the plough or feeding the pigs that would provide food for the winter. He would also forage around the family lands, looking for fruit and the occasional small game to supplement the family's meager income.

His father died when he was sixteen years old, and to avoid the inevitable struggle about the family's property, Bronos left his house, carrying only one pair of spare clothes, his hunting shortbow and a few arrows. The young hunter survived the next few years selling pelts of fox and badger, mostly sleeping under a tree or simply covered in his blanket.

During a particularly tough winter, Bronos was caught poaching in the woods of a certain Sir Petrov. The landed knight heard the sad story of the sobbing boy, and he offered the boy a chance to pay for his crime: he would be whipped three times, and after that he would work all winter in the stables. Only many years later would he understand the mercy the lord had offered him: while working in the stables he would have a warm roof over his head and food on his belly, instead of facing the terrible winter alone in the woods.

During that winter, Bronos cleaned the stables, saddled horses and took care of their health. He would sleep tired and smelly, but warm and dry. On came the spring, and the boy still worked in the stables, although he had been granted the right to leave. When granted permission, he would range the woods, and return carrying fowl, small game or tales of boar and deer in the woods, which the knight would gather his court to hunt. In these events, the boy even accompanied the knight, feeding his horses and handling the hunting hounds.

The years passed, and Bronos had become a slender and agile man, always clad in wool and leather, with his riding boots and hunting shortbow. His rugged features would send the castle's handmaidens in a flurry of gossip, and his humble and easy manner had made him a trusting servant of house Petrov.

A tumble in the hay with Gwynn, the castle cook's daughter, turned his world upside-down. The girl was a young and devout worshipper of Erastil, and when she revealed that she was carrying a child, Bronos done right by her and asked her hand in marriage. Although her family had higher expectations for the girl (that had been betrothed to a priest of Erastil), the scandal left them with few choices but to accept the marriage. With lord Petrov's leave, they married in the woods under the sign of the Old Deadeye, and a few months later Bronwyn was born.


Male Human Cavalier 3

On the dump subject; I believe it should be as far away from the other buildings as possible, and preferably as far away from water too.

Anyone objects to moving the dump to C10?


Sir Bronwyn wrote:

Actually, as my parents are both extremely lowborn, neither have actual surnames. They are still alive and quite well; the whole getting me-out-of-the-dungeons scheme was actually Bronos' idea. I'm still comitting to paper the background of these NPCs, but Bronos' is almost finished (there's a sample below).

** spoiler omitted **...

Cool, when it is finalized, if you wouldn't mind sending it to me via email for my records for bonus XP? That would be very helpful...

One quick question, though - as I understand it, lowborn "surnames" where typically assigned via the job they did. John "Smith", Jack "Carpenter", William "Butcher", Frank "Cooper" and Fred "Porter", to name a few. What does "Bronos" mean? I mean to say; what is the significance of the job? Even "Winter" strikes me a surname of such lowborn quality - a bleak, barren, lifeless time with no color and eternal desolation readily avoided by all living folk: Winter.

But then, I am mainly curious, is all...

Good news is, when I wake up tomorrow, my chief priority is getting the notes for you and the kobolds done. Look for them on the board sometime mid-afternoon, I should think.


Sir Bronwyn wrote:

On the dump subject; I believe it should be as far away from the other buildings as possible, and preferably as far away from water too.

Anyone objects to moving the dump to C10?

The only reason I put it there (currently, and because this is still a draft) is because the barracks, shrine and pier are all buildings that don't need to be adjacent to a house. This is also why I put the starting "house" all by itself; that way a building that needs to "touch" a house could be built at either D6, or C7.

If you move the dump, and want to replace whatever goes where the dump used to, just make sure whatever goes in instead is something that does not need to touch a house.

And also, remember, that wherever you put the dump - the buildings around it must be buildings that don't need houses either, if you wish to continue with this strategy.

Of course - this is a rough draft.

More on this later, I believe I need to crash out soon, though.


Male Human Cavalier 3

I was wondering more from the IC point of view - it's no good putting a refuse site near the body of water (even though it's dry by this point) that supplies the city, or near the city's barracks, etc.


Male Human Cavalier 3

Bronos is his first (and only) proper name. He was probably called "Stableboy" even in his adulthood, and "horseman" after that, but he didn't forge a real surname for himself. Same goes for Gwynn, Bronwyn's mother, devoted to Erastil but a simple cook.


Male Human Cavalier 3

OK I've uploaded the archive. You gotta unzip all the files in a folder, and click on the "Saravale.html" file. It should display on your browser. If Logan gets some time, it would be cool to host those files online.

Most of the details of the html can be changed. I changed a line to keep the labels (the building names) always displayed, but as default they only appear if you hover your mouse on the square. I can also name the streets, build walls, etc.

You can download the files here in this link.

edit: If you'd like, I can also make a jpg out of it.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Sir Bronwyn wrote:

On the dump subject; I believe it should be as far away from the other buildings as possible, and preferably as far away from water too.

Anyone objects to moving the dump to C10?

I agree that the dump should be located far away from the other buildings/sites.

Ry has no objection to moving the dump to C10 for now.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

we're going to need to build around the dump eventually, so we could out a tannery and something else, but i dunno what...


Sir Bronwyn wrote:

OK I've uploaded the archive. You gotta unzip all the files in a folder, and click on the "Saravale.html" file. It should display on your browser. If Logan gets some time, it would be cool to host those files online.

Most of the details of the html can be changed. I changed a line to keep the labels (the building names) always displayed, but as default they only appear if you hover your mouse on the square. I can also name the streets, build walls, etc.

You can download the files here in this link.

edit: If you'd like, I can also make a jpg out of it.

I am, as of yet, unable to view the file. I don't know why, however.

Does anyone know how to help?


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Bronwyn may need to convert the Saravale District html file into a jpeg for you, Dain.


It's a zip file you have to extract it. Right click the file that you downloaded and hit extract.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:
we're going to need to build around the dump eventually, so we could out a tannery and something else, but i dunno what...

A tannery and maybe a jail can go in the same block as the dump? Between the tannery and the dump it won't be the most pleasant of places to be around, so a jail with criminals doesn't seem such a bad idea to place in that block. I know it's probably not the best place to put a jail but I couldn't think of anything else more suitable for that block.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

theoretically each square represents 250 people living in the city, so it's not like it's a city block, but more of a borough, so there would be lots of space around the area. it's just the part of the city that happens to have a Dump as the most important are, its a sort of industrial space, or something.

Like a house would be little neighborhood...


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

hey joe,

nex time i get a cantrip can I have Jolt?

also does the +3 to attack roles against enemies in metal apply to my nat attacks if i hold the charge for a shocking grasp?

can my electric attack have a +3 to the DC against foes in plate
and can i use it in a way that emulates Shocking grasp, by focusing it into my hands/claws, maybe?


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

theoretically each square represents 250 people living in the city, so it's not like it's a city block, but more of a borough, so there would be lots of space around the area. it's just the part of the city that happens to have a Dump as the most important are, its a sort of industrial space, or something.

Like a house would be little neighborhood...

These matters shall all be cleared up later today/tomorrow as I finish of my notes on how things will be going in game for this kind of stuff.

Simply put, though, there are basically two maps.

The first map is both generic and concrete - via the rules of the map itself by the book. In other words, if you want to put a dump by your only fresh water source, and flank the dump with a graveyard and shop and toss in a Statue to the king - that is possibly the dumbest way to set up a town. HOWEVER; it fits the book, so no worries, because it's all good.

BUT: This is NOT how the town will really look. Actualy, the town will look quite different. Even as Alaric is forced to make a bland, flavorless, vanilla "grid" of your fortress - which is essentially built just like you're building the town - things are extremely different with Alaric's map.

His ACTUAL map reveals fine detail, the subtle arrangements of floor plans, locations of special rooms and dimensions of structures that give the entire image of the fortress both depth and other nuances such as beauty and a greater sense of practicality for your heroes.

What is the advantage to what Alaric did? Why, I should think (personally) the same advantage bequeathed on any person who has a passion to create something - then does lots of hard work and tons of effort until they succeed at creating it - then they can share their wonderful creation with others.

That is, of course, the real reward, I should think.

But, of course, some of you may be asking "Um, yeah... but what is the "in game" advantage to what Alaric did?

Fair enough. I will say that you are currently working on two "districts". Each district is a plot of land that is built for specific reason to give you a feel of how the world and game are built.

Now, the fortress "district" has many floors to it, narrow passages to defend, and is a fairly difficult thing for enemies to attack.

Therefore, if an enemy decided to attack the "Fortress District" they would either use the very dull and vanilla rules for attacking districts and move through each square on the map in a systematic point-by-point style that is consistent with a board game or watching paint dry.

However, not so for your current "Fortress District".

For example, an assasin is on the prowl looking to slay the king (or whoever), or a group of bandits is moving through the passages and up the confines of the canyon - then Alaric is well positioned. He immediately calls for all vilalgers to be evacuated to the stone homes insde - he orders archers to all windows on each "floor" of the fortress - he orders spell casters to the parapets and arranges them quickly and deliberately so that when the fools come charging up, they'll have to fight for every inch of ground. Suddenly what would be a very easy resolution against Alaric is made twice as hard as he and his Cohort now are on the parapet nearly 80 feet above the villians, who are forced into the narrow canyon, so he can rain "Fireballs" on them, and let them all die with abrubt chaos!

NONE of those strategies and tactics could be employed or utilized if we used the basic "map" system the book calls for. It is simple, dull and boring, but has a purpose - namely; game balance.

Conclusion

You'll be getting more about this later, but in the end you are literally going to create a map for the city on the "village" district, not unlike the detailed floor plans Alaric has done for the fortress. Or, you don't have to - you can leave it the way it is. But if you DO do a city, you will be given rewards, treasure, and XP - as well as the chance to create a city that coincides with both your aesthetic needs as well as practical needs.

Kae's suggestion that the house is a neighborhood is fair - but at this point you have 250 people for each "square" used on your tactical map. Where does that leave you? You have much more then a little neighborhood. In the meantime, I don' think that the "shrine" or "barracks" should not be the same size of an entire neighborhood - or take up the same ammount of space!

And that's where you all come in!

Remember, no one needs to put the same detail, effort and so forth into this project that Alaric did. But those that DO that will not only help your little town, but they will help you too, because in the end, you WILL be rewarded for this efffort.

More about this in the email/notes that I will be sending out later.


I've already started working on a "real" village map based upon what we've been doing. I would like input on how everyone would like it to look though. So suggestions on things people would like to see, places they would like to live and so on just let me know and I will incorporate them.


BTW There is space for offices/apartments for everyone in the fortress. Let me know what you would like in them and I will add them to the maps.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Alaric Winter wrote:
BTW There is space for offices/apartments for everyone in the fortress. Let me know what you would like in them and I will add them to the maps.

Alaric, what kind of details are you looking for to be included in our respective office/apartment?


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

hey joe,

nex time i get a cantrip can I have Jolt?

also does the +3 to attack roles against enemies in metal apply to my nat attacks if i hold the charge for a shocking grasp?

can my electric attack have a +3 to the DC against foes in plate
and can i use it in a way that emulates Shocking grasp, by focusing it into my hands/claws, maybe?

1. Of course you can have Jolt, if it is in the website we are using. And, as it is, you may choose it. :)

2. Shocking grasp, as I read it, only allows you to do a touch attack - not multiple touch attacks. This is consistent with, say, a Magus using shocking grasp through his sword despite multiple attacks a round. The first attack would hit with shocking graps, the others would do normal damage.

3. Your electric attack releases a burst that can be undone or mitigated using "Reflex". Most people in full plate have great enough penalties for Reflex that this would function as "too much" bonus. In other words - the penalty a man in full plate has is that his Reflex is lowered anyway.

3. - part two - Your signature item has grown in power.

- Currently the damage is 3d6 + Charisma Modifier
- Currently the Reflex DC is now 10 + Charisma + Sorcerer level + 3
- Instead of using this function as a "cone effect" you may instead charge your body with electrical energy. This confers the following advantages:

Note: As of now, you may still use this ability (cone or charge) 3 rounds a day, plus your Charisma modifier.

1. As a Free Action your body is crackling with Electricity. This ability lasts for 1 Round.

2. You may use this ability INSTEAD of your Cone Ability.

3. If you touch an enemy they automatically take 1d6 Electrical Damage, in addition to any other damame you do (i.e. Claw, Claw, Bite each do their damage +1d6 for each attack, provded they hit).

4. This attack is considered a "Touch" attack. Therefore, even if you miss an enemy because of their armor bonus, as long as you can succeed with a "touch attack" you can do 1d6 of damage.

NOTE: This effect does not become transfered through your weapons, however - it does become transfered through your body. In other words - if an enemy has completed a succesful grapple attack; if an enemy attempts to strike you with a natural weapon or their bare hands - for every time they strike you in the round in which it is active, they themselves suffer 1d6 electrical damage.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

I looked at the "Bonus XP for Role" setup. looks cool.

Questions:
1. Our lands are populated by Hirelings. We pay them to bring them on quests if we want? Do they get a share of the XP from the encounter, or do they only level based on bonus experience?

Also, i can't find where you talked about Cohorts leveling, but do they get a share of the XP, or do they level as we level?

IIRC, if the bit about creating cohort, you mentioned them needing a regional trait, is that a thing?


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

I looked at the "Bonus XP for Role" setup. looks cool.

Questions:
1. Our lands are populated by Hirelings. We pay them to bring them on quests if we want? Do they get a share of the XP from the encounter, or do they only level based on bonus experience?

Also, i can't find where you talked about Cohorts leveling, but do they get a share of the XP, or do they level as we level?

IIRC, if the bit about creating cohort, you mentioned them needing a regional trait, is that a thing?

Cohorts level the same way they do under the "Leadership: Feat" confers. I have made no changes to this feat, but as for their "traits" one of them must be a regional trait. Under the "Trait" headings you have different types; social, religious, racial and regional.

One of the traits can be chosen from any catagory, but one MUST be chosen from the regional traits. They also have 25 point buy - the rest of the rules for their creation are identical to yours.

Enjoy!

:)


Regarding Bonus Points

Hey gang! There have been some concerns about how new bonus’s are going to be divided in the game. So far, my initial plan is to reward you each with BP, XP, and GP for what will one day become your respective “Estates”.

These estates will allow you to instantly recruit a group for a town council, all of them start on level 0, NPC class. As you gain XP, you can raise the level of your own town council in PC classes. BP is used to generate buildings, and GP is used for basic funding.

For now, there are quite a few bugs/obstacles I have in front of me before this plan can come to fruition. It allows you to generate your own functioning city; that could one day have the power to create magic items for you, or special gear for you, or specialized hirelings for you, and (perhaps) even armies to invade or conquer surrounding territory for you… Though of course raising an army to overthrow a legally binding government is generally not considered a “good” or “lawful” thing (and hardly even “neutral”…).

You may be thinking that this could be game breaking or overbalancing the game (see above mentioned nuances under “bugs/obstacles”), but at the least I hope it will be fun. But it isn’t an overnight proposal by any means!

For now, the BP, XP, and GP you gain will be “cached”. When you reach a decent level, you are free to use these things to begin the construction of your own estates. When that happens, you will be a fairly higher level (probably level 7, though nothing set in stone).

At this time, you will be better equipped to deal with an actual town. Your own town will call on you specifically for adventures and you may find yourself recruiting new players for new threads to assist you in specific quests. But, then again, this is still a work in progress.

The big issue is that I have been rewarding people with XP. This seemed fair, but if people were unable to get to a computer, or missed a key combat via Skype, or any number of things; they could quickly fall behind. This is bad for not only the person in question, but the whole group. If one of you was out of town for two weeks (for example) and the group bumped up two levels (doubtful but possible), then you would be far behind, so far, in fact, that I may actually have to raise your level. In which case, you would be equal with the group so that things weren’t too ridiculous, but the group would feel somewhat cheated by this.

I realize that city building may not be a tempting reward, though. But, I am at a loss. For now, the only three ways I know to reward a player are; bonus XP (which can be broken quickly), bonus GP (same problem) and magical items (same problem). The caveat I have come up with is special things for your character (such as a unique item or signature gear – like Dior or Anuk-su Seti). But there is only so much of that I can hand out before things become unwieldy.

Therefore, if you have any other suggestions for me at this time that don’t fall under bonus XP, GP, or Magic Items for me, because City Building is not your thing, throw them on the Discussion board. I want them on the board because I want everyone to see them and consider them and theoretically give feedback.

Personally, I thought it would be neat if (for example) Kae’til could create a town of barbarian warlords with Arena fighting and (theoretically) brothels and brewery’s and crazy inns. Or perhaps Bronwyn created a town of industrious and genteel folk; knights and so forth with their own code and heraldry – separate from the king, but worthy patriots and loyalists to the crown!

But then again, this idea may not be for everyone. Remember, nothing is set in stone, I am still in preliminary stages looking at options and ideas on how to do this. But for now; side quests gain you the afore mentioned bonuses. If decide not to use them, then I shall switch to something else.

At this time I am now asking you ALL a question:

Should we get a replacement for Khrovin now, and if so, what would you like (in terms of Class, Race, etcetera)?

Pleases let me know.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

I think our group needs a Cleric, possibly a straight cleric as we have a paladin already in Bronwyn. I'm not fixed in this if the new player wants to play the cleric differently -- just putting an opinion, here, in discussion.

I also have no problem if we NPC Khrovin for a short time, or even longer if necessary.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

I'd say we could use a full caster, maybe a theurge. If we get a cleric, maybe Holy Vindicator PRC if it's a battle cleric. Oracle could work... someone with strong healing would be nice, tho.


cleric or oracle, definitely.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

I agree, cleric or oracle.


Cool!

I'll toss up on Recruitment the following -

Looking for a forth level healing caster, cleric's and oracles prefered. All races/classes open. Good aligned wanted, evil/crazy types are not needed.

28 point buy
3 traits

Some house rules to a Kingmaker game - just started Book 2 - River's Run Read.

Frequent post a must.

Party includes

1. 4th level Aasimar Druid
2. 4th level Human Sorcerer
3. 4th level Half-elf Barbarian/Sorcerer
4. 4th level Human Cavalier/Paladin
5. 4th level Halfling (DM NPC Class)

I will add this soon; unless anyone has any other suggestions?


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

toss up a link to the recruitment thread, so we can get to it easy and talk to the applicants.


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:
toss up a link to the recruitment thread, so we can get to it easy and talk to the applicants.

Any other modifications?


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Perhaps, make note of having a social maturity. It can be hard coming into a readily established group and it would be good if we could maintain a positive group harmony and social niceties for the duration. Yes, hiccups are inevitable (for existing and new players, alike) but it would be nice to have a positive environment and interaction for ALL.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

We've got a pretty positive vibe, some darker history for the characters, but as players, we seem to keep it pretty light, avoiding conflicts and such.

In terms of rulings, we play a fairly high-powered sort of group without too much actual optimization, and don't seem to take the Crunch super seriously. Not much gaming the system, as it were, but there is still room for a numbers-game.


Good times. Then, with no other specifics, I shall be posting a recruitment thread, looking for a new cleric.

That said, it seems like mentioning no over optimization (seems a bit redundant to me... cough, cough) is needed, as they start with 3 traits, and 28 points.

Okay, I am going to be out of town until late Sunday night, with no internet access, and probably not even phone access. I shall post it up readily, then, and filter out responses when I get back.

Meantime, if anyone can figure out what the dust is, that's good. If anyone wants to do social RP, that's also cool...

It will be remembered...


Dain GM wrote:

Good times. Then, with no other specifics, I shall be posting a recruitment thread, looking for a new cleric.

That said, it seems like mentioning no over optimization (seems a bit redundant to me... cough, cough) is needed, as they start with 3 traits, and 28 points.

Okay, I am going to be out of town until late Sunday night, with no internet access, and probably not even phone access. I shall post it up readily, then, and filter out responses when I get back.

Meantime, if anyone can figure out what the dust is, that's good. If anyone wants to do social RP, that's also cool...

It will be remembered...

Well, I am leaving. Feel free to look at the "recruitment thread". Though the post is up and can't be changed, I shall rely on you guys to keep an eye on things while I am gone.

Khrovin is leaving the game, but he has not formally "left the game" on the campaign site, so to make sure new players aren't confused, I have left his character in the group to make things less confusing if people look at the campaign board and see him there.

I shall be gone until Sunday, look for me then.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Just a posted reminder for our GM: Dain, when you get back home, can you please email everyone the Calender of the month of Pharast ... Thank you. :)


Female Silver Dragon My Level of Class is unmatched by any and all!
Ariarh Kane wrote:
Just a posted reminder for our GM: Dain, when you get back home, can you please email everyone the Calender of the month of Pharast ... Thank you. :)

"Desist with thy demands, woman! The calandar is, no doubt, even now in thy "electronic"-mail Inbox! Seek it, then, and thy shall discover it!"


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Anuk-su Seti wrote:
Ariarh Kane wrote:
Just a posted reminder for our GM: Dain, when you get back home, can you please email everyone the Calender of the month of Pharast ... Thank you. :)
"Desist with thy demands, woman! The calandar is, no doubt, even now in thy "electronic"-mail Inbox! Seek it, then, and thy shall discover it!"

"Prodigious thanks, Lady Anuk-Su. I sought and found the information in said Inbox!" Ry bows elegantly before the young silver dragon.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Happy Halloween!


Happy Halloween... Mwuah ha ha ha...

And as always, my eye is ever on thee...


*Smacks ring* Get back in yer hole! I said git!


Well, gang, things have been somewhat sticky on how the nuances of play-by-post have worked, so far. As of right now, it has been very hard for me to satisfy everyone's needs and still maintain some form of sanity while having fun myself.

Naturally, being the ultra-genius that I am, I hit on a robust and clever solution, one which you all know about (that's right, I told all of you, in depth, well... except for ONE of you... we all know who that person is... and we all know WHY I couldn't tell that person... heh heh heh...).

So, when you finish your tussle with the Osirion crew, presuming you survive, you will see more information on my plan on how to make the game work much beter for all, and be twice as fun, and so on.

I would go into the details now, but it seems redundant. Just know that there is a rather huge change that will be happening soon that should really 'zazz' up the game on how you all play.

You will see it in a few days, though. Meantime, hope you're enjoying the combat and the comming intrigue.

One last question - any word from Bronwyn, if he's still on board for gaming? If so, please let me know...


Just fyi although it doesnt really matter now but for the future, invisible creatures do not cast a shadow. You are correct though that the silent image wall would not block the light so I would give them another save to disbelieve it. They would not automatically know its not real. A silent image would also not cast a shadow unless it was included in the illusion (which it would be in almost every case where a shadow would be warranted because no illusionist worth his salt would make a mistake like that more than once lol)


Alaric Winter wrote:
Just fyi although it doesnt really matter now but for the future, invisible creatures do not cast a shadow. You are correct though that the silent image wall would not block the light so I would give them another save to disbelieve it. They would not automatically know its not real. A silent image would also not cast a shadow unless it was included in the illusion (which it would be in almost every case where a shadow would be warranted because no illusionist worth his salt would make a mistake like that more than once lol)

Thank you very much for the information about "Silent Image". However, I must say; apologies. But I have to disagree with your statement about Invisible creatures not casting a shadow - but first let me give you my reasons.

1. The description of the spell itself (invisibility, not even "Vanish" but the actual "invisibility" spell) stipulates that though you cannot be seen "certain conditions" can show that you are in a specific place - it references two; namely swimming in water, and walking through puddles.

Because "certain conditions" are not clearly defined, this puts the decision of how to rule for this specifically under the jurisdiction of the GM.

2. The spell makes allowances for a creature attempting to detect you while invisible - but even if they can "theoretically" detect you, they are hindered by circumstances. In other words, if I saw you walk through a puddle, and knew you were already invisible, I would have to either use a "perception roll" with a penalty of +20 to my roll (or, in other words, your "Stealth" check would have +20 to it).

This is because (as it seems to suggest) even if I know you are there - via swimming, standing in a puddle - or in this case casting a shadow - I still don't know where specifically you are. I need to find you specifically; so I could stab you with a sword, or shoot you with an arrow - hence the Perception roll if I want to hit you.

But even if I saw you standing in a pool of water - the water surrounding where you stood, but not able to see you specifically - I would still still suffer a "miss chance" to strike you if I knew where you were, and were invisible. I would see you in the water, knock an arrow, shoot it right at you, and have a 50% chance of missing.

3. My next point is that Invisibility is one of those tricky things; because it really isn't properly defined (at least, as I see it. Does it bend light around you? Does it let light pass through you completely? Is it a spell that transforms your body into something else, temporarilly; or does it instead convince the minds of others that you are not there - because if that last point is true, then invisible creatures should easily be seen by mindless creatures, such as undead. This last argument against invisibility makes the most sense, because the spell is actually under the "Illusion" subschool - you are not literally see-through, you merely "appear" to be see through. My mind is convinced you aren't there, when, in fact you really are. Please understand, I am not worrying or debating about if undead can see you or not, because that is formally defined in the rule book - I merely saying that there are many ways to "read" the definition of "invisible". As the rules formally seem to suggest, you are not ilterally transforming yourself into another form, rather, you merely taking on the appearence of an invisible form, meaning you are there, meaning that if flour landed on you, you could be seen, and so on...).

The way it is written, in my opinion, leaves open many definitions or readings on what "Invisibility" really is. You are not transparent (i.e. gaseous form, a spirit, ethereal, or something else which things can pass through - like light or water) you are, in fact, using a type of spell (in this case "Illusion" subschool, if I'm not mistaken) to convince another person - to "Trick their mind" that you aren't really there, but in fact you are there.

This is why, for example, casting "Invisibility" on a torch will make the torch vanish, but not the light (another important part of how the spell seems to work - it mentions several times about "light" though isn't specific on how light works for the purpose of this subject regarding shadows).

Now, I could be completely off base here, and will happily admit that. Perhaps there is a decription or nuance somewhere in the book that specifically states "Invisible creatures don't cast shadows" or some other detail that refutes my theories. I have not seen such a statement, though I did look.

If such a statement existed, please paste the link so I can look it over. For now, I had to go to my old "Default" menu on how to deal with a sticky situation "in game" when the rules were unclear to me.

Namely; I referenced Tolkien.

As you no doubt know, the One Ring; the Master Ring the Ring of Power that ruled all others and dominated all others - the one that could make you invisible to all but the Naked Eye of the One Enemy - while using this power, and becomming invisible, you still cast a shadow.

Recaling this, I feel that a level one spell - not nearly as powerful as an Artifact (and yes, rings of power exist in this game, ahem, as some of you may know...) should also be under the same hinderances, if not more so.

Therefore; to clear this up quickly:

Until I see a specific rule that says that "Invisible" creatures (not transparent or gaseous) specifically don't cast shadows, I have to make my own call. For now - invisible creatures can cast shadows. They are still difficult to see - a very high Perception roll must be made (circumstantial modifiers apply, of course), but an Invisible creature will cast a shadow.

Again, I am not an expert on the rule. If you know another formal reading that refutes this, I will happily ammend my ruling. For now, as the book merely says "certain circumstances" I have to go with my gut, remind you that this is a first level spell, and (most important to me), when in doubt regarding an understanding of fantasy metamagic - consult Tolkien.

So, show me the rule that says specifically that invisible creatures don't cast shadows, and I shall ammend my ruling. Until then, stay away from the light while invisible - but don't worry too much - even when the goblin gaurds spotted Bilbo's shadow while in the east gate of the Misty Mountains - he got through okay, and I know you will, too.

:)

P.S.

I love these type of meta-magic debates. The ability and chance to stretch your mind to think abotu game dynamics of a fantasy world and apply to them real-life philosophy - juxtaposed with the oppurtunity to have a debate simply for the chance to exercise the brain with no issues except for the chance to simply lean back and let your mind roam is a treat for me.

So, to thank you for this debate, happily give your character a nice ruby ring - value 100 GP, for this debate and the modest pleasure it brought me. The ring will be in your character's mailbox when he returns to the fortress.


Hey everyone. I just wanted to put up a quick post to let you all know that I'm going to need to take a break from the game for a few weeks. As some of you know I have been dealing with some pretty crazy stuff irl. As such I need to focus on that stuff for a while. I am not quitting and I love the game but I need to take care of this stuff in order to proceed. Dain knows more details if you want to know more. I will be reading and enjoying in the meantime. :-)


Female Silver Dragon My Level of Class is unmatched by any and all!

Alaric! It is thy birthday - as such, may it be happy one; full of great merriment, and a modest ammount of glee. Further, I say unto thee; enjoy it well - lest I be... displeased!


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Happy Birthday, Alaric!


"And fer me, too - Alaric lad - in honor of yer bloody birthday I be vowing to drink four stout pints fer thy health as well - and pinch at least that manny stout saucy bottoms to boot!"


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

"WEll a happy birthday to you, and all the best, noble Lord Winter. Waiph and Brett will be doing the drinking for me, as it goes straight to my head..."

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