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Dain's King Maker Chronicles Discussion


Play-by-Post Discussion

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Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Other ideas:

In terms of a system of government, we need to set up a structure where control does not wholly reside in one person and decisions are not based on whims and rash edicts. We will have a head of state, a king or queen, who do have power but they will not have the mandate to be the absolute law in the land.

Settlers will be given the opportunity to elect a representative to speak on their behalf in 'parliament'. We can limit how many "local" representatives are permitted and for what term (1 year or longer). This empowers the "local people" and they are more likely to listen to/follow someone they know and trust rather than a group of people who have elected themselves to govt or through right of birth (as can be the case).

Parliamentary representatives will not be given hereditary right -- that is, they will not take a seat once occupied by a relative and which has been passed down after death. The King or Queen's heir may be entitled to retain their deceased parent's seat in parliament.

Laws will be constructed and enforced. A fair justice system will need to be established and all cases will be judged on their individual merits. So, we will need to look at establishing official lawmen, deputies, and legal representatives. If we decide to go with a death penalty system, then we need to decide what crimes will be punishable by death. It must be for the most abhorrent of crimes and not for any offence. We want an effective lawful system, not some fear-inducing, death mechanism.

We must also ensure our jails are not filled to the brim. Matters that can be resolved out of court, should be. Sworn Mediators, Ambassadors and alike could handle the minor offences in their community/communities.

Do we want layers of government? Or one overall governmental body?


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

basically, in the beginning we give out land and they pay us a tax to keep in. Simple enough.

If they are smiths or something, they either provide a portion of equipment, or we pay them cash and in the end of the day, we get a tax from them???
Seems like it should work

ANy other suggestions


Male Human Cleric 3/Paladin 1
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

basically, in the beginning we give out land and they pay us a tax to keep in. Simple enough.

If they are smiths or something, they either provide a portion of equipment, or we pay them cash and in the end of the day, we get a tax from them???
Seems like it should work

ANy other suggestions

Death penalty should not be ruled out. Capital crimes should include any violent crime where premeditation can be proven. That includes rape, murder and the like. Assassination should be a very bad bad bad thing.

Taxes I would suggest at 10% of income at years end. Some subsidies and the like should be available for trades such as farmers and the like.

I like the idea of the layers structure, means that in theory we do not have to micromanage.

Elect people for a term of 2 years, with a maximum of 2 terms consecutively.

Whilst Alaric will have final say on matters due to being king and all, I believe that the idea that in theory we all have equal weight in discussions is possibly the right way to go.


Khrovin wrote:
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

basically, in the beginning we give out land and they pay us a tax to keep in. Simple enough.

If they are smiths or something, they either provide a portion of equipment, or we pay them cash and in the end of the day, we get a tax from them???
Seems like it should work

ANy other suggestions

Death penalty should not be ruled out. Capital crimes should include any violent crime where premeditation can be proven. That includes rape, murder and the like. Assassination should be a very bad bad bad thing.

Taxes I would suggest at 10% of income at years end. Some subsidies and the like should be available for trades such as farmers and the like.

I like the idea of the layers structure, means that in theory we do not have to micromanage.

Elect people for a term of 2 years, with a maximum of 2 terms consecutively.

Whilst Alaric will have final say on matters due to being king and all, I believe that the idea that in theory we all have equal weight in discussions is possibly the right way to go.

Remember, Alaric is only a lord, not the king... and it is a long way between here and the crown...

But he has suggested a system of parliment or council - mentions the form of government in "Game of Thrones" - which I haven't seen or read, but it may be a good source of reference for those of you who have.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

I was personally not impressed with the form of government in Game of Thrones (in the tv series as I never read the books).


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

Elections sound good.
Capital punishment is fine, but do we really want to be that harsh with everyone? I'd say 3 strike rule, or only on a repeat offenses, but for the first one or two, there is forced labor, then execution, except for a few very severe crimes.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

basically, in the beginning we give out land and they pay us a tax to keep in. Simple enough.

If they are smiths or something, they either provide a portion of equipment, or we pay them cash and in the end of the day, we get a tax from them???
Seems like it should work

Any other suggestions

Well they can establish a smithy, which is their place of business so to speak. So, perhaps the blacksmith may need to be treated as a merchant who establishes a shop in the town? A blacksmith would set up in the township common, right? Otherwise he could set one up from his home, perhaps from his own land? If he decides to work on his land as a blacksmith, then he does qualify under a "permanent dwelling". Either way, just taxing him annually (just like anyone else) would be fine, I think. The system is then fair across the board, no matter the skill. Any settler can sell goods and services and earn an income.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Elections sound good.

Capital punishment is fine, but do we really want to be that harsh with everyone? I'd say 3 strike rule, or only on a repeat offenses, but for the first one or two, there is forced labor, then execution, except for a few very severe crimes.

I made mention of an idea about punishment in my prior posting. I suggested that not all offences should be brought to a "court" or incur a heavy penalty (I won't reiterate it all here, again.) It's a few postings previous to this one. I agree with you, each crime should be weighted/judged on their own merits.


Male Human Cleric 3/Paladin 1
Ariarh Kane wrote:
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Elections sound good.

Capital punishment is fine, but do we really want to be that harsh with everyone? I'd say 3 strike rule, or only on a repeat offenses, but for the first one or two, there is forced labor, then execution, except for a few very severe crimes.
I made mention of an idea about punishment in my prior posting. I suggested that not all offences should be brought to a "court" or incur a heavy penalty (I won't reiterate it all here, again.) It's a few postings previous to this one. I agree with you, each crime should be weighted/judged on their own merits.

Yes, I agree with the idea that minor crimes should be dealt with at a local level by someone who is sworn to uphold our laws. What laws they uphold is also however something that needs to be looked into.

I do not agree however with the idea of making the capital punishment the last resort as it were. If someone can be proved to have premeditated a crime such as murder, then that should be dealt with in the same terms in my opinion. The same with rape and other crimes in the same vein as these two.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Khrovin wrote:


Yes, I agree with the idea that minor crimes should be dealt with at a local level by someone who is sworn to uphold our laws. What laws they uphold is also however something that needs to be looked into.

I do not agree however with the idea of making the capital punishment the last resort as it were. If someone can be proved to have premeditated a crime such as murder, then that should be dealt with in the same terms in my opinion. The same with rape and other crimes in the same vein as these two.

Brutal, premeditated crimes that can be proven should be dealt with swiftly, aye.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

Can we use magic and compulsion in trials?
Discern lies, charming/dominating etc?
Divination as evidence?


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Can we use magic and compulsion in trials?

Discern lies, charming/dominating etc?
Divination as evidence?

I don't see why not. Actually, I wrote a very fun "Noir" detective story in which the heroes were a former bounty-hunter who opened his own business, and his partner - a half-elf mage.

They used magic all the time to solve the cases, but of course, it made it hard to write, because the villians had to use magic to outwit the cases. For example; one of their first witnesses to a murder was using "Speak with Animals" on the rat they found gnawing on the body.

It certainly opens up a whole new realm of dealing with legal proceedings, but it also opens up a whole new realm of criminal activity.

However, though it is your kingdom, I would rule that "compelling" a person to speak, in other words, overriding their will using dominate or charm - this sets a dangerous precident for legal cases. How do you know your judges or magistrates aren't "dominating" an innoccent man into admitting guilt, for example?

After all, you can't be everywhere at once, if someone has committed a murder, and paid of the judge or magistrate to use magic to get an innocent man to confess the crime under magically induced compulsion...

In fact, historically I read that a person who "confessed" under torture in both ancient Rome and throughout the Middle Ages was someone who confessed legally. If you were getting burned with hot irons and you admitted to doing something wrong, then you stopped the tortue, but sealed your fate. Such a confession was both legal and binding... It could also be the case for you guys. Like, instead of using a spell to get someone to "confess" you simply use more mundane items - like the wrack or iron maiden.

Now,I should think that divination COULD work, but it tends to be rather hazy on answers, same with augery... but it certianly help you with clues.

Of course, the whole case of using magic to solve crimes and in court proceedings can be complicated; it just opened up a whole new kettle of possibilities - for example, what if someone positiively saw you murder a man in cold blood? But really - it was not YOU, but a sorcerer who used an ILLUSION that made him LOOK like you in order to mask his assasination attempts. Or maybe it really WAS you, but you were under orders through magic and compulsion to do it... Because if a magic user MADE you do something - or a devil, perhaps, does that absolve your guilt? Does the judge need to now track down the approrpriate devil or magic user if you are seen killing someone? And if so; what's to stop people from using that excuse? Even worse, what if you killed someone in a fit of anger, and really BELIEVED that you did so because you were "charmed" into rage by a spell or sorcerer... If I used "Detect Truth/Lie" on you - well, it's not a lie if YOU believe it.

Hmm... Actually, Waiph, great set of questions. You've just got me fairly excited about this line of information, because I love mysteries and detective stories (and cross/classing characters AND genre; so, detective/fantasy was fun, why not now?).

Hell, just ask Alaric - we played a LARP together in which his character was going down the line of being tried for heresy, and I would have had to be his defense council. WIth magic and spells, this is quite a thing to play out - sadly, though Alaric's character left us, and has so far not been seen again....

As you know, so far most of my mysteries in game have been rather mundane and obvious, but this throws a whole new twist to CSI: Arcana -

However, the short answer is you can do what you feel is best to get an answer to a question in a trial, just like a criminal can do what he feels is best to avoid those questions - and this opened a whole new realm of possibilites for all of us to enjoy in the game.

Thanks for the idea, I look forward to making them happen!


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

Do we want to have a new thread set up for book 2? If we make it, and then copy our current posts into it, it'll have a nice beginning, starting with Brett's at 106.

For the leadership roles, we definately need a Councilor, SpyMaster, and High Priest, as the vacancy penalty increases Unrest, and that seems like something we want to avoid, as we don't have much a way to decrease it.

Then we want to balance penalties and such, so if we had:
Alaric: Ruler Econ ^cha
Brett: Spy Econ ^dex
Ariarh: Councul Loyalty ^wis
Khrovin: Priest Stability ^wis
Ka'etil: warden Loyal ^str
Bronwyn: general Stability ^str

if we can Oleg: treasurer Econ ^int/wis

Diplomat: -2 stability
magister: -4 econ
marshal: -4 econ

Looks like with this spread we get the -8 econ which Brett and Alaric should make up for, and maybe Oleg, please so econ is good, and then Bron and Khro can handle stability, as they have good stats for those, and Ry and Kae have loyalty pretty high as there are no penalties.

Terms of buildings, How many can we put up at a time, and to start right now?
We could put up a town hall, would be good, and then the Barracks cost half, so for 28bp we get both of those, and then a shrine is only 8 so that's 36, and we get +1econ, +2 stability, +1 loyalty, and a -2 unrest and +2 defence.
As a fishing town, we can maybe focus on economy at some point
Joe does the waterfront make the Guildhall, and Market cheaper since it is there? or does in need water to confer any benefits.
ALSO, the buildings that say "must be adjacent to 1 house" are they one house per building, or can you have a block of a House, Tavern, Shop, and Stable???

We should use the Discounts from the waterfront to make the Guild-hall and Market, then make a Tradesman with the discount from the guild-hall
--Then later wa can go Academy, magic shop, caster tower etc so we have a high City-base value so we'll be able to get good items here and have access to lots of them. We can also fit them into one block, so all three of the higher learning institutions are in on spot and we just leave one square of 4 open till we can afford them.
--Maybe leave another 4-square block open for a noble-villa, Luxury store, and house.
--With another square, we can toss a Market, and Exotic Craftsman house in the same block.
--Guildhall, Tradesman, House as another block
--Cathedral before the academy??? Khro?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like we have one city with 2 districts, meaning this one city has 18 blocks of 4 squares each, so we have room to make this a pretty epic capital.

We should also make one adjacent hex a farm hex, so we can feed people.

edit: i goofed on the market
Market needs 2 houses, which i didn't see, but still market would be good to have and then the places that need one house clustered if that's allowed could be good


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

Hey, with putting ranks to improve the leadership scores, would it make sense to use intimidate and sense motive? You mentioned that it works out to ruling through fear and duplicity, or honor and honesty, what I bring up is encouraging honor and honesty, but also using fear of consequence. People do not feel manipulated and are encouraged to engage in honorable dealings, but have a somwehat frightening air about Kae, keeping people from wanting to be on his bad side...

Also, an idea for assassin in a good kingdom is more as an executioner. He doles out lawfully appointed punishment on behaf of the crown/council for the good of the realm, and strikes fear into the hearts of those who would threaten the peace of the kingdom. As a thought...

What ya'll think about the roles?


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Hey, with putting ranks to improve the leadership scores, would it make sense to use intimidate and sense motive? You mentioned that it works out to ruling through fear and duplicity, or honor and honesty, what I bring up is encouraging honor and honesty, but also using fear of consequence. People do not feel manipulated and are encouraged to engage in honorable dealings, but have a somwehat frightening air about Kae, keeping people from wanting to be on his bad side...

Also, an idea for assassin in a good kingdom is more as an executioner. He doles out lawfully appointed punishment on behaf of the crown/council for the good of the realm, and strikes fear into the hearts of those who would threaten the peace of the kingdom. As a thought...

What ya'll think about the roles?

I am completely fine with them; however -

Intimidate uses fear to motivate results, and execution, while a final deterent for captial offenses, is killing someone you believe that is guilty and (theoretically; assuming they aren't raised) never giving them the chance to repent.

Personally, I feel that there are two things to consider on this matter:

1. Using fear and subtlety to manipulate and control the public may be viewed in many ways, but I would not feel those ways to be good.

2. Execution is an ultimate way of preventing a criminal from repeating a crime; however if you execute one innocent man, even in error, you have commited an evil action, or by law or mandate, permitted an evil action to be commited in the name of the legal authority.

HOWEVER: Personally, it's all up to you. If you want to take the role of a formal Marshal, and use Disgiuse and Bluff checks to mislead your allies so that you can mete out justice to the dishonest or evil - then you will be able to "Multi-Class" for kingdom roles - Marshal/Royal Assasin.

Your name would be one whispered by mothers in the shadowed nights; the town fathers would loathe you publically for your actions, while in their hearts may admire your fortitude to do what is needed when the law will not act on behalf of its citizen. You will be a shadowed man; he who walks in the darkness to strike with rightous fury on those who deserve justice when the courts refuse to act and the law is blind to take the action that is needed.

Marc Spector, Frank Castle, Starkiller; many names for one type of man...

I say; go for it, if you're up to that kind of challenge, that is.... One word of advice though, don't get caught bringing justice to those who evade the law on a moonless night with blood and vengence in the name of "justice", for that is contrary to the will of your Ruler and his Council.

And I don't have to tell you that the Ruler is not as forgiving, as I am...


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Do we want to have a new thread set up for book 2? If we make it, and then copy our current posts into it, it'll have a nice beginning, starting with Brett's at 106.

For the leadership roles, we definately need a Councilor, SpyMaster, and High Priest, as the vacancy penalty increases Unrest, and that seems like something we want to avoid, as we don't have much a way to decrease it.

Then we want to balance penalties and such, so if we had:
Alaric: Ruler Econ ^cha
Brett: Spy Econ ^dex
Ariarh: Councul Loyalty ^wis
Khrovin: Priest Stability ^wis
Ka'etil: warden Loyal ^str
Bronwyn: general Stability ^str

if we can Oleg: treasurer Econ ^int/wis

Diplomat: -2 stability
magister: -4 econ
marshal: -4 econ

Looks like with this spread we get the -8 econ which Brett and Alaric should make up for, and maybe Oleg, please so econ is good, and then Bron and Khro can handle stability, as they have good stats for those, and Ry and Kae have loyalty pretty high as there are no penalties.

Terms of buildings, How many can we put up at a time, and to start right now?
We could put up a town hall, would be good, and then the Barracks cost half, so for 28bp we get both of those, and then a shrine is only 8 so that's 36, and we get +1econ, +2 stability, +1 loyalty, and a -2 unrest and +2 defence.
As a fishing town, we can maybe focus on economy at some point
Joe does the waterfront make the Guildhall, and Market cheaper since it is there? or does in need water to confer any benefits.
ALSO, the buildings that say "must be adjacent to 1 house" are they one house per building, or can you have a block of a House, Tavern, Shop, and Stable???

We should use the Discounts from the waterfront to make the Guild-hall and Market, then make a Tradesman with the discount from the guild-hall
--Then later wa can go Academy, magic shop, caster tower etc so we have a high City-base value so we'll be able to get good items here and have access to lots of them. We can also fit them into one...

Currently you gave stuff to Oleg, so you only have 36 build points.

You have two "Districts" on the same map Hex. Each district allows you to combine things to form a greater bonus.

Typically a "district" needs to be filled before you can start another, but not in this case.

Your waterfront property will convey bonus's to things, but only when water connects to them. For now, they take up space, but they are already constructed. They won't give bonus's to the market, but if you build a market in a new "district" (when these two are filled) then that market will get bonus's. At this rate, you have a long time to go before that happens, though.

If a building needs to be "adjacent" to a house, that means it must be flat against it. Diagonals don't count. However, some buildings don't need a house by them to function; which means that you may end up be better off rearranging your property with that in mind.

As a note of good news; Oleg is working on his property, too. You will get benefits from it as well - even though you aren't building it. That will be sent to you.= via email soon, though.

He also volunteered to be Treasurer at this time.

Also, there are special bonus's for a town that is large; it gets random items in it for you to find and buy that don't need to be crafted. Certain buildings add to that bonus (like a shrine that can confer sales on minor magical items each month at no cost to craft).

That said, more to come soon...


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Hey, with putting ranks to improve the leadership scores, would it make sense to use intimidate and sense motive? You mentioned that it works out to ruling through fear and duplicity, or honor and honesty, what I bring up is encouraging honor and honesty, but also using fear of consequence. People do not feel manipulated and are encouraged to engage in honorable dealings, but have a somwehat frightening air about Kae, keeping people from wanting to be on his bad side...

Also, an idea for assassin in a good kingdom is more as an executioner. He doles out lawfully appointed punishment on behaf of the crown/council for the good of the realm, and strikes fear into the hearts of those who would threaten the peace of the kingdom. As a thought...

What ya'll think about the roles?

That fear of death/execution is what Ry wanted to get away from. I think she would prefer if Kae were respected for his strength of character and skill, and therefore through respect and admiration (whether obvious or more subtle) could influence honour and honesty in the kingdom. Fear of consequence is certainly a normal feeling. But it is different to fear of reprisal and fear of (corrupted) power. Both, but especially the latter is more evil in its nature. Ry understands that evil/wrong-doers will be executed for their proven crimes in a kingdom. The titles 'Executioner' or 'Assassin' just do not sit well with Ry and she believes they do not send out the right message to the populace. Aye, we need to maintain order and mete out the correct kind of discipline ... But there has to be a better title, one more applicable to a "good" aligned kingdom. I believe Kae could make an effective Marshall and it holds more esteem than a Royal Assassin. Just my 2 cents.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Ry would push for a Park (4bp) (Loyalty +1, Unrest -1) as she would see there be a place where she could establish a 'sacred grove' and a garden. She would see the park established somewhere near the water, if possible. It could be established in the same block as the Herbalist (Loyalty +1, Stability +1) (and its adjacent house).


Alaric will suggest filling the remaining roles with the exception of Diplomat with some of the people met at oleg's. After all if they are going to be a part of the kingdom they should have a hand in running it.

First he would put forward Drake's name for consideration for Marshal. If he does not accept he would put forward Henry Ironhorse's name.

Second, for Magister he would put forward Selendria Grear's name. If she does not accept then Sarah Ironhorse, even though she is young she is not so much younger than us.

As for buildings,

What we have so far is:
2 city walls Defense +8, Unrest -4
2 Watch towers +2 Stability, +4 Defense, -2 Unrest
Granary Loyalty +1, Stability +1
Inn City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1
Smith Economy +1, Stability +1
Stable City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

Giving us a total to start of

Defense +12
Economy +3
Loyalty +3
Stability +4
Unrest -6

Alaric would concur with Kae that a Town Hall should be the first building. We need a place to meet with people to hear their needs and to start record keeping. Economy +1, Loyalty +1,
Stability +1. 22BP (14 left)

Second, Alaric thinks that sanitation is of high importance as well for a new city so he will suggest adding a dump. Loyalty +1, Stability +1 2BP (12 Left)

Third, Housing definitely needs to be addressed so 2 housing complexes should be built. Unrest -2 6BP (6 Left)

Fourth, Alaric also wants our city to be known as a place of learning and as such suggests adding a library in order to attract learned individuals to the city. Economy +1, Loyalty +1 6BP (0 Left)

This would leave us with a final total before individual modifiers of:

Defense +12
Economy +5
Loyalty +6
Stability +6
Unrest -8

Alaric right now as a ruler would have the following bonuses to each category and will pick whichever one needs the most help.

Economy +5 -2 for Dain house rule with no bonus for skills leaving +3
Loyalty +5 -2 for Dain house rule with no bonus for skills leaving +3
Stability +5 -0 for 9 ranks in pertinent skills leaving +5

Once everyone's bonuses are in I can add to the weakest stat. Let me know what everyone thinks but this would be the way Alaric pushes to start. I think it is balanced and a good way to go especially if we are able to fill the positions we need to fill.


Alaric Winter wrote:

Alaric will suggest filling the remaining roles with the exception of Diplomat with some of the people met at oleg's. After all if they are going to be a part of the kingdom they should have a hand in running it.

First he would put forward Drake's name for consideration for Marshal. If he does not accept he would put forward Henry Ironhorse's name.

Second, for Magister he would put forward Selendria Grear's name. If she does not accept then Sarah Ironhorse, even though she is young she is not so much younger than us.

As for buildings,

What we have so far is:
2 city walls Defense +8, Unrest -4
2 Watch towers +2 Stability, +4 Defense, -2 Unrest
Granary Loyalty +1, Stability +1
Inn City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1
Smith Economy +1, Stability +1
Stable City base value +500 gp; Economy +1, Loyalty +1.

Giving us a total to start of

Defense +12
Economy +3
Loyalty +3
Stability +4
Unrest -6

Alaric would concur with Kae that a Town Hall should be the first building. We need a place to meet with people to hear their needs and to start record keeping. Economy +1, Loyalty +1,
Stability +1. 22BP (14 left)

Second, Alaric thinks that sanitation is of high importance as well for a new city so he will suggest adding a dump. Loyalty +1, Stability +1 2BP (12 Left)

Third, Housing definitely needs to be addressed so 2 housing complexes should be built. Unrest -2 6BP (6 Left)

Fourth, Alaric also wants our city to be known as a place of learning and as such suggests adding a library in order to attract learned individuals to the city. Economy +1, Loyalty +1 6BP (0 Left)

This would leave us with a final total before individual modifiers of:

Defense +12
Economy +5
Loyalty +6
Stability +6
Unrest -8

Alaric right now as a ruler would have the following bonuses to each category and will pick whichever one needs the most help.

Economy +5 -2 for Dain house rule with no bonus for skills leaving +3
Loyalty +5 -2 for Dain house rule with no bonus for skills leaving +3...

A few quick points - each "District" starts with one house for free.

In this case the fishing village starts with one free house; though your fortress starts with as many tenements as you want - (subtracing the size of the above mentioned stuff from the grid - this leaves you "29" slots in the fortress to fill up with tenenments if you would like to, or leave those slots blank instead).

This may free you up some space/BP

Also, a Ruler can select only 1 Stat to modify on this level. You must choose Economy, Stability or Loyalty; but on "Baron" level you can only do one; on Duke Level you can choose two, and only when you reach "Monarch" can you effect all 3.

Finally, as a Republic your Economy is at +1 and your Loyalty is at -1 across the board. This may help you with your selection on what stat you would modify.

Drake will happily volunteer for the position of Marshal, if the others refuse the post. Oleg is currently your national Treasurer, and is working hard on improving your village to the north - expect reports on that soon...

Also, I believe you need specific buildings to build/recruit specific things. For example; an army is recruited at barracks - and free/random magic items will begin to crop up once you start getting wizard towers, shrines and temples put in as well.

Finally - your Advisors and Counselors may need to be replaced over time (especially when/if you get Cohorts involved) so you may want to consider "term limits" on your folk.

Finally, Oleg will be submitting his "Report" for your consideration at the end of the month when you do the numbers. He will have some alterations made on his work and you will be able to see how his village is doing, and how it helps with yours, too.

Okay, guys, you've read Alaric's post, and seen some answers. Let me knwo what you think...


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

Kae has +3 str, and a -1 penalty on loyalty as warden (or if he went general he'd have a -1 on stability) based on ranks, so Kae grants a +2 to his score

Bron's sheet looks like he has +4 str 9 ranks in relevant skills for either, so he's at a 0 penalty, and he adds +4 to stability as general...

Drake as martial is pretty cool. i approve


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Ariarh as Councilor : +4 WIS and -2 penalty to loyalty. So Ry grants a +2 to loyalty.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Ariarh agrees on the suggestions of Drake (or Henry Ironhorse) for Marshal and Selendria Grear (or Sarah Ironhorse) for Magister. Just something to note, Ariarh would note having two members from the Ironhorse clan holding high positions at the same time may be seen as favoritism and putting too much power in the hands of one family.


I knew about the only one modifier for Baron rank hence where I said I can boost where we need. I can pick which one to boost.

Since we get a free house Alaric will suggest instead of building two additional houses, just build 1 and save the 3 BP for next month.

Ok so with the modifiers we know so far:

Defense +12
Economy +6 +3 from Alaric (seems like where we need help) = +9
Loyalty +6 +2 from Kae +2 from Ry = +10
Stability +5 +4 from Bron +3 from Khro = +12
Unrest -7
City Value 500 for inn +500 for stable +200 base = 1200 gp

People who we need to know their bonuses: Brett, Drake, Selendria (if she accepts)
Alaric will definitely be boosting knowledge local next level lol.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

why the 7 unrest?

Unless you mean it is negative unrest, which i don't thin can happen. We jsut have 0 unrest and can get BP during out upkeep

DM: Do the 2 parts gear off each other as the same city? If we had a town-hall in the village, would barracks in the Garrison be half price?

I think we can guild the dump next to the pier (shipping trash can be dealt with easily), and a Mill in the same block next to the water on the south side of the block. then toss up the tannery there

future build plan
Whadaya think?

(BL)So for the village there's the waterfront in the lower left,

(BC)The lower center has the Pier and dump.
--Tannery and Mill

(CC)Town hall goes on a new block with the Library (Dead Center?)
--one non-house structure like a park or shrine or barracks or tower

(CR)House goes on its own on a new block
--That way we can put two shops up against it, and a tower, shrine barracks or graveyard...

(TC)--One of the blocks should be House, Guildhall, Tradesman when we get the waterfront back
(TL)--Another as House, House, Market
(TR)--Academy, Caster Tower, ??? shrine, park?

totally empty, and no idea...
(BottomRight)noble villa?, shrine, park, watchtower, something nice...
(CenterLeft) House, House, Magic Shop, Luxury Store?

Buildings that we should put us sooner rather than later: Cathedral (academy discounts)
Fill the Lake for waterfront (before market and guildhouse)
Arena could be cool(garrison and theater, for culture)

In the Fortress District, I'd say we could put the Castle, garrison, cathedral Arena
Maybe put the GUILD BLOCK in the Fortress District and free up another block in the Village District

No idea how we're managing the Fortress District, building wise, with houses and stuff, so the big things may be good to toss there so we don't need to worry about houses being adjacent to anything...


Waiph, I love the ideas and your set up looks really good. I had the -7 unrest up there just as a reminder for where we start. It'll be 0 when we actually get going.

As for the tenements in the fortress, those can be upgraded to houses if we need to for 2 BP each.

Also Dain, did you decide about the Jail? I put it in the map because you had put it in the email you sent to me. Are you putting that as a building we have or is it something we need to build and its kind of just there right now?

Also, the castle...Dain and I talked about putting it on the other side on the top across where the dam was and bridged to the rest of the fortress. What do you think?


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

Cool, on all points.

Does that mean that tere's most of the fortress, then the dam, and at the other side of that is the Castle, or is the castle ver the dam, cause that may be odd. I think castle should go across the bridge, and then we re-build the dam. What sort of BP would that take?

We should spend a month or two to clear out the place, and Logg everything, relocating the animal life and killing the foul stuff so we can re-make the lake, but get the most out of the swamp.

You know how Dain wants to resolve the whole adjacent building thing in the fortress? Or you going to be able to factor that into your designs with him, cause that'd be cool.

Also, lets use all the Tenements that we can afford to bring the unrest to a flat 0 once we pick our buildings cause we can afford the unrest a few of them generate.


Alaric Winter wrote:

Waiph, I love the ideas and your set up looks really good. I had the -7 unrest up there just as a reminder for where we start. It'll be 0 when we actually get going.

As for the tenements in the fortress, those can be upgraded to houses if we need to for 2 BP each.

Also Dain, did you decide about the Jail? I put it in the map because you had put it in the email you sent to me. Are you putting that as a building we have or is it something we need to build and its kind of just there right now?

Also, the castle...Dain and I talked about putting it on the other side on the top across where the dam was and bridged to the rest of the fortress. What do you think?

While you are free to design the structure of the "Fortress" as you have done so far, it does not enjoy the formal benefits of a jail - yet.

However, when you get the build points - you can eventually add one as there is plenty of room.

Next; while it seems unlikely that you would have the room to build an actual "Castle" on top of your forterss (though you could - according the book rules, I think...) it may be better to form a third "District" on the now vacant plateau that is open on the opposite side of the dam.

On the wester side of the dam the other "Fortress" existed, but it has long since been smashed; indeed, the entire western side has been smashed rather flat, and you see nothing left but a flat layer of rock, about the same hight (roughly) as the dam itself - like a broad plataeu.

Eventually, you are free to build a "Third" or even forth or fifth district in this area - You could build your next district on that plateau, if you so chose to. Then, on that district, add on things that could be more useful; fortress, Wizard Tower, and other things that you want to be protected.

Remember, although the rules for "building" a district remain the same for the floor plan formally with the grid we've all seen - the actual internal mapping of the fortress is up to you - within limitations, of course. This will provide you with a better "design" if/when you are attacked via Mass Battle and then you fight in better/more defensible positions rather then the basic square map.

But more on that in a long while...


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

Cool, on all points.

Does that mean that tere's most of the fortress, then the dam, and at the other side of that is the Castle, or is the castle ver the dam, cause that may be odd. I think castle should go across the bridge, and then we re-build the dam. What sort of BP would that take?

We should spend a month or two to clear out the place, and Logg everything, relocating the animal life and killing the foul stuff so we can re-make the lake, but get the most out of the swamp.

You know how Dain wants to resolve the whole adjacent building thing in the fortress? Or you going to be able to factor that into your designs with him, cause that'd be cool.

Also, lets use all the Tenements that we can afford to bring the unrest to a flat 0 once we pick our buildings cause we can afford the unrest a few of them generate.

1. The tenement issue needs to be adressed by the end of the month. While you can spend BP to upgrade tenements to houses, for now they are tenements. The thing is; how many do you want? You need to tell me before you get your BP next month - it's not really fair to say "Oh, we get 2 BP? Well, in that case we decide we had no tenements all along" or "Oh, we get 200 BP? In that case we were filled with tenements that are all now houses! Yay."

So, let me know about how many you have before you find out what you get for build points.

2. Good question on dam BP. It all depends on how high you want to make it. Currently you can use a "wall" to build ten feet in height (a wall costs 8 BP). However, before this is useful to you, you will need to remember that the dam is 200 feet tall, if you want to make it on-par with the fishing village. That means (magic items aside) you will need to have 160 BP to build the dam to its full height. Though you can do this gradually, and don't have to build it all at once.

By the way, once the dam gets to be forty feet up, you can free two more districst on the south side where the large lake is... The lake itself will continue, but there is a shallow ledge on the immediate southern side of the cliffs.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

i had a plan, but thought better of it, cause too much population is going to be a problem.

We have 36 bp, and I think Barracks are important.
With a Town hall, they're half price, so they only cost 6

House (first house free) -1 unrest
Town Hall (22bp)
Barracks (6bp) -1 unrest
Dump (2bp)

This leaves 6 bp left.
We have -10 unrest so We can afford to have 5 tenements and build our population, and convert them to houses later.

I'd say this is the best option, as it gives us the most bang for our buck in terms of Population while keeping Unrest 0 and preserving out BP.

Then again, we could buy 2 more bp to get ourselves a shrine, as Brett suggested, which also sounds like a good idea... also a minor magic item would be lovely to get

Also, As a Neutral Good kingdom, we theoretically get a +2 on Loyalty and Stability


Kae I'll second that then. Hopefully Drake and Selendria (if she accepts) can boost our Economy score.

So my vote is Kae's set up plus the shrine.


Male Human Cavalier 3

Sorry folks, just discovered this thread exists. Will try reading the material to provide opinion on the matter.


Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

So we got the Town Hall --> Barracks and Dump, and a shrine.

We'll take the 5 tenements

And we've bought 2 bp with treasury money. So we have 28000 gp left.

All agreed???


Ka'etil Malas'rae wrote:

So we got the Town Hall --> Barracks and Dump, and a shrine.

We'll take the 5 tenements

And we've bought 2 bp with treasury money. So we have 28000 gp left.

All agreed???

Not really sure why you want a dump - other then what it confers for stats at this time. But I should add - each addition to the city has its ups and downs besides simple math. For example, dumps tend to attract vermin - and tenements are a good breeding ground for fire hazards and disease.

However, it is a damp country, so chances are there will be little fires - and the likelyhood of a dump spreading disease to the city is probably negligable.

Just something to consider... But I wouldn't bother about it too much... As you no doubt know, I tend to stick to the motto of keeping everything very simple and easy and the odds of me sticking in such complicaitons are very rare indeed :)

Also, not entirely sure if the entire party wants to spend 8,000 GP for a dump. It may be better to keep it next month and roll it over to something a little more constructive like upping a tenement to a house, or building a shop. Shops are useful for economy and they also can bring in gear for your property in the future.

But of course, that is just a suggestion.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Ariarh wouldn't be happy with spending 8000gp on a dump at the present time and would like to keep that coin in the treasury for next month's construction. The other construction: town hall, barracks and shrine she approves of.


Alaric Winter wrote:

Kae I'll second that then. Hopefully Drake and Selendria (if she accepts) can boost our Economy score.

So my vote is Kae's set up plus the shrine.

Selendria will accept, if you would like... However, Drake needs a dispatch sent to him before you can be sure he'll accept. But it is very likely he'll do it, if you have no one else for the present...


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

We can send a dispatch, making Drake the offer of position. He is probably the best man for the role and we have Hank Ironhorse (waiting in the wings, so to speak) if he does not accept. ;)


Ariarh Kane wrote:
We can send a dispatch, making Drake the offer of position. He is probably the best man for the role and we have Hank Ironhorse (waiting in the wings, so to speak) if he does not accept. ;)

It will take (roughly) 3 days north and 3 days back to get to Oleg's village. Is there anything in particular you would like to ask, other then nomination Drake for Marshal (Oleg has already accepted Treasurer) - for example, what Oleg's village looks like?


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Aye, it would be a good idea to hear from someone who's seen the improvements firsthand and Drake is usually in the middle of the action, so to speak. So yes, to what Oleg's village looks like. Perhaps asking if they have received any recent news/passing murmurs from travellers re the Baron and the other Ustalavians? Other signs of banditry? Also, what Aliento and Dashan have been working on.


Ariarh Kane wrote:
Aye, it would be a good idea to hear from someone who's seen the improvements firsthand and Drake is usually in the middle of the action, so to speak. So yes, to what Oleg's village looks like. Perhaps asking if they have received any recent news/passing murmurs from travellers re the Baron and the other Ustalavians? Other signs of banditry? Also, what Aliento and Dashan have been working on.

Sir Dashan and Aliento have no doubt been doing exactly what has been expceted of them, and more...


Male Human Cavalier 3

As I understand, the dump offers bonuses for one reason: it is a concentrated place to relieve off trash and refuse. The remodeling and building of the structures will generate massive amounts of dirt and construction material, which would be taken to the dumps instead of being just swiped off under the carpet. I support Alaric and Kae'til, we'll generate massive amounts of trash and refuse on the next months, and setting early a curtained place where to dispose of this would go a long way towards getting a cleaner, healthier environment.


Male Human Cavalier 3

Joe, I'd really like at least a summarized account of what transpired between Bronwyn and the kobolds along the winter. It could affect in many ways the way I'll roleplay him from now on.

In the IC thread I'd asked for Alaric to enchant my bastard sword, did he manage to do that?

Also, I'd like to ask you specifics about Bronwyn's "clique" of characters, so I can stat them up and write down a few descriptions to provide you with some NPCs. I had written down your guidelines on statting them, but its motherboard burned up and the computer is in repair.

As I remember, you said they could be 1st-level PC-classed or 3rd-level NPC-classed. How many should I stat up? On what point-buy should I build them? Can I choose traits for them? Will I need to "pay" for their services?

That's it for now :)


Male Human Cavalier 3

In another game I play, the DM used a cool html thing to generate an image of the city map. I've toyed a little with it, and think I can edit the html file. Just would need to upload it somewhere, does anyone here has a page that could host it?

The end result is an image of the city map with the buildings, and you can mouse-over them and read a label (so we could point to the tavern and read "Green Frog Tavern").

edit: Found an example of the end result using the HTML thing: http://atuan.com/city-map-toolkit/vessilion-commerce-final.html


Sir Bronwyn wrote:
As I understand, the dump offers bonuses for one reason: it is a concentrated place to relieve off trash and refuse. The remodeling and building of the structures will generate massive amounts of dirt and construction material, which would be taken to the dumps instead of being just swiped off under the carpet. I support Alaric and Kae'til, we'll generate massive amounts of trash and refuse on the next months, and setting early a curtained place where to dispose of this would go a long way towards getting a cleaner, healthier environment.

Okay, in this case the majority rules;

So, as I understand it, you'll take the following

1. Town hall (which district, by the way; this will effect what happens to your other items in that district).

2. One barracks - village I presume

3. Dump

4. Shrine

5. This is all at the cost of coin - specifically 8,000 GP, I presume.

This means that you will only have 28,000 GP left, by the way.


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

I have an online album that I have used to host maps and letters for this game. If you send me the image, I will upload it and give you the url to post up, if you are interested, Bron.


Male Human Cavalier 3

Thanks Ariarh :)

When we decide which buildings to build and where to place the buildings already built, I'll work on the html file. I think I can always "print-screen" it to generate a jpg image file.

Hey Joe, can you provide us with a keyed city map like the ones you use on maptools? That way we could refer to each "block" as A9 or D3, which would really help me put together the map.


Sir Bronwyn wrote:

Joe, I'd really like at least a summarized account of what transpired between Bronwyn and the kobolds along the winter. It could affect in many ways the way I'll roleplay him from now on.

In the IC thread I'd asked for Alaric to enchant my bastard sword, did he manage to do that?

Also, I'd like to ask you specifics about Bronwyn's "clique" of characters, so I can stat them up and write down a few descriptions to provide you with some NPCs. I had written down your guidelines on statting them, but its motherboard burned up and the computer is in repair.

As I remember, you said they could be 1st-level PC-classed or 3rd-level NPC-classed. How many should I stat up? On what point-buy should I build them? Can I choose traits for them? Will I need to "pay" for their services?

That's it for now :)

1. The summary is a bit lengthy, and I am working on it, but you will get that up tomorrow when I have a chance to finish that specifically.

2. Alaric did not enchant your sword at this time; he was unable to enchant anything over the winter months, for in game reasons. He can attempt to enchant it now, provided you have the specific requirements to do so. At this stage of the game, you each now have 4,670 GP to spend. That is your "cut" of the treasury. From it, if you are willing to invest the capital needed to enchant the sword (base price) and Alaric has the time to do it and the abilities (feats and skills) then he can do it. But you've now downshifted to real time.

To all

This really goes for all of you - you will each (eventually) be able to gain Cohort's, Followers, and hirelings in time. Much like Bronwyn's NPC's... They will each have the following abilities/stats -

1. 25 point buy
2. 2 Traits - 1 local (to THEIR locality, if they're from Brevoy or Ustalav then I need one from there; however you are free to chose wherever you want to be from; from as far as Osirion to the River Kingdoms themselves, provided you choose a good backstory) and the other you are free to choose from.
3. No Cohort, Follower, or Special Ability will cost money (such as Dior, or Anuk-su) - but they will gain no XP. Rather, they will go up in power over time, as they are a signature item. These folks will eventually raise level, but they will not do so until YOU do... but that happens over time.
4. FINALLY: Any person you hire will gain experience; divided equally in the group they travel with, and go up in level. This means that if you bring Sylvath with you, either pay him or convince him, he will gain a cut of XP from teh total and potentially raise level, even more then you do.

That said - there will be a lot of new stuff to look over tomorrow - mostly fun things via signature items for all. None of it needs be used, but it may be fun to keep and use.

To Bronwyn: All of them should be statted out. If you choose level 3 NPC then they are all level 3 NPC and they will remain NPC classes. The reverse is true if you elect Regular Classes.


Male Human Cavalier 3

But can some of them be NPC-classed and some PC?

I mean, his "entourage" consists of mostly serving women, but his father is a seasoned hunter and animal-handler (I'm thinking ranger). Also, if by this time the kobolds have knighted me, I'd like to begin training a squire. Seeing as I've trained a few of the younger lads during the winter time, I'd like to gauge their interests and talents, and find one that's talented (or maybe has a hidden talent) and willing. Maybe Rand Davis from Oleg's Garrison or, ideally, Christopher Ironhorse (he has around the right age and looks promising as a warrior).


Male Human Cavalier 3

The problem is I lost the file which had the NPCs stubs (name, race, and general history and purpose). I remember both Bronwyn's parents, and three different women, but I'm wondering on expand that to a guard (probably a 1st-level fighter) and a little brother or sister to Bronwyn (without class levels at this point, at the age of 8 or 9). Mind if I redefine them?


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Draft of Village District

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