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Dain's King Maker Chronicles Discussion

Play-by-Post Discussion

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M Elf Spellbinder Conjuration (teleport) Wiz 2
Arasmes ibn'Fayad wrote:
I'm good with you being headmaster and handling the teaching and such. I can handle the practical aspects like you said. Or better yet we make an arcane organization instead of just a school. The school could be run and feed into the organization. Kind of like an Academy that moves into an order of sorcery. If you have read Wheel of Time, kind of like the White Tower or Black tower where they recruit initiates and train them up to full members with all the rights and responsibilities contained therein. Basically there would be an Academy, which feeds into the guild or whatever we want to call it. What do you think?

I like that a lot. So it's a cabal that has an academy. It's actually a better organizational stucture.

To Ariarh and Kae

By the way - I've been gone for a few days, and it's now Tuesday - but I have not seen any new posts on your own personal threads - which were supposed to be fleshed out for specific details and so on - regarding plot devices and other such things as "ret-con" deals, that sort of thing.

Anyhow - if you guys would prefer not to have ret-con on your threads, not to post on your threads - for now, or whatever, please let me know.

Thank you!

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

If you recall I was away on vacation while you were away for three days. Waiting on Kae re militia info/discussion with Delain. If you can email me militia numbers etc then I can have the conversation with Delain, otherwise I'm stuck until Kae jumps into the conversation.

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

If there is any place on the board when I can find Saravale's military info, then can someone direct me please (I don't want to sort through every entry in hopes of finding the right one)? Since Ry is the druid not the general or a military person she would not have ready, immediate knowledge of soldier numbers and alike. But I need to play it out on the alternate board and need the information. Thanks, guys.

Male Half-Elf Invulnerable Rager 2/Crossblooded Envenomed+Draconic Sorcerer 1/ Trapper Ranger 1/Rage-Vivisectionist 2/Dragon Disciple 1

back on 100% tomorrow. Got a late night tonight, and meetings in the mornings, but then i'm good.

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Thanks, Kae. :)

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Kae, please go over to Ariarh's Province page. Ry is nutting out an alliance agreement and Delain has provided a section in his draft that may be of interest to General Ka'etil. :)

M Elf Spellbinder Conjuration (teleport) Wiz 2

Arasmes and I are planning on starting an arcane organization. What's the best way to start this process?
I've mentioned it in character, but we've been so busy nothing ever came of it.

Should we start a Province page?

Yeah and DIBS ON THE ISLAND FOR OUR BASE! lol Either that or that tower fortress mountain thingy that we found way back when.

M Elf Spellbinder Conjuration (teleport) Wiz 2
Arasmes ibn'Fayad wrote:


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Regarding School for Gifted and Talented Youngsters… er… mutants… I mean… Magic Users… yeah; that’s the ticket!

Okay – I had a huge F.A.Q. on this posted before – for both nobles and business owners. Luckily – I have it in my documents and will post it again here. I recommend making this post a “favorite” for you guys – as it will have a lot of information you’ll probably want to learn about later.

Quick basics on business verses title.

First – a business needs a hell of a lot less BP and GP to get started then a Barony. However – you must build the business within the context of a pre-existing barony – or land in general. That is to say – Shaezon has already purchased land within the capital for his business – and is planning on setting up there. Both Arasmes and Shaezon can consolidate their BP and GP for this business – if they want – but the land they build on must be controlled by a noble. In other words – you couldn’t just build a school in the middle of the plains and call it a school. The Council must give you the right to take the land and be given right to exploit the land for the good of the nation.

As such – whoever the noble is that controls the land will be forced to pay a tax to the nation.

Business are different then titles. They’re a lot easier to get – and the rules are simpler. The potential power level is far smaller, though, because you are only limited to the direct power of just your business.

HOWEVER: If your business does well – you can expand – buying land in other peoples Baronies – and setting shops all over your empire. Further – if you have private “business contracts” – you are free to expand your businesses outside the nation – say – set up shops in Brevoy – Ustalav, Numeria – and (why fiddle with those slackers) go global with shops in Absolom, Osirion – and other such places that really have connections.

All you need to do to set up a “business” is make sure the presiding lord of a city is willing to grant you one “square” on the “city map” for their city to open a basic shop. More then that will eventually be needed for your home base – sleeping quarters for your students will want a “house” – you’ll want a “shop” to sell your merchandise – you’ll want a “wizard’s tower” to get your merchandise going.

Remember – a baron can claim one “hex” on the overhead map. Once they claim the hex, they can claim the surrounding 6 hexes – for a total of 7 hexes. A “hex” grants the baron a village that is 36 small squares on the map. So – you do have finite space for a massive city – because you can build (eventually) 252 small squares of building space.

As an example – if Kae – who is a noble via the mandate of the Council Charter – claimed this island and the surrounding 6 squares as his own (by the way, you can’t claim more hexes until the primary hex is filled – that is – all 36 squares have to be filled up. Saravale – your capital – is the exception to this) – it’s still no problem for you. You could, depending on how your RP things – persuade Kae to “Sell you” the land within his barony – so that you could formally build a school there.

Naturally – Kae would have the right to tax your school – as the baron – as would the nation. However – you’d have to work those details out with Kae, assuming he took this land.

Remember, too – it’s not as tricky as you think. You guys have been (theoretically) doing some hustling. If Arasmes received a title from the Council – and he may, depending on how things go (as of now I believe Shae is less interested in a title) – then Arasmes could petition the Council to claim that land as his barony – and simplify things a lot.

However – this assumes he becomes – or WANTS to become a noble – and that the Council agrees, and it also assumes Council agrees to his suggestion to take that land as his own (Arasmes is pretty smart, though – I have a hunch he could persuade the community, if he said the right words).

But then – there are some things to consider.

While the nation as a whole is (by parties request) to be governed formally under the “Kingmaker: By the Book Rules” – individual baronies are not. You have more flexibility to be creative – trials are generally harder – and solved by your own cleverness and social RP as opposed to flat dice rolling – Arasmes may have his work cut out for him – or he may find things much easier – given how he sets things up – because his barony will need a “Town Council” – just like Oleg’s – and he’ll have to stat them out – just Oleg’s – and pay them, too. But he can’t “Control Them” – they’re loyal to them – but they do have their own personalities – though, for the most part – he’ll be able to control them as Kae can control his two battle captains so far. Mostly his orders/commands will be obeyed – but every now and then I’d step in to override something if necessary - much like I do with Galen - but then, Galen is a bit more powerful then Kae's men, and - as such - has a bit more personality to deal with.

But - realistically - if Arasmes the "Baron" decided to go on a quest - he could have small "adventures" for his own town council while he was gone - that could cause them to raise level and things (knowing what I know of Arasmes personally - I think that giving him the chance to stat out and RP a bunch of players is something he might like to do anyway, if only for small - short adventures).

Here’s the real crux of this island, though – you don’t know what is on the hexes to the west side – and very little about the east side (which has not formally been explored). For all Arasmes knows – the west side may have big trouble for him to deal with. And beyond that? Well - after all – to the south west was the new Southern City the Osirions control – Arasmes may find war on his very doorstep – and he may also discover a whole new massive set of previously undiscovered races popping in to his town – to either be recruited, allied with – or feared…

I should add that these new races – most of which are already “statted out” – and (for the most part) don’t appear in the core books (some do, but stopped being playable races a long time ago – even monstrous races – for… unspeakable reasons) - you will be able to examine for potential cohorts once book 2 is done. And, even the more rare one's - if you write a good backstory, and depending on what you do in the coming weeks "in game" (or at least, by the time you finish this book/chapter) you'll be able to recruit them as town Council Members – or at least a Cohort. This assumes you meet these new types - if you want to recruit them as a cohort, that is. You certainly can hire them later, as a town council member - or a Professor in your business - if you meet them after you have GAINED a Cohort - or if your Cohort dies or is dismissed from your service.

However – if Arasmes really wants to be a Noble – or Shaezon – or want a more detailed F.A.Q. on the rules – click here:

House Rules on Baronies/Businesses:

How rules on Baronies – Bonus BP and Businesses

All about Bonus BP – what to do with it; what’s it worth – and how I can use it.

If I want to "Sell" BP to another player for "Coin" - do I get the full 4,000 GP, and can I in turn use this on magic gear or goods? Say I went on a quest – earned BP with everyone else – but I really just wanted “Cash” – can’t I just take the money?

First - you can sell BP to another player - but it is up to that player to pay you want they are willing. So - for example - if you offer Brett 4 BP - he may choose to give you only 12,000 GP - instead of 16,000 - because he doesn't have that much coin. Also - any character can buy his own BP from laborers - he does not need to buy yours, so why should they give you full price, unless they are being nice?

On the other hand – if you earn Bonus BP and don’t want it - it does you no good without land to use it on.

Now, if you suddenly gained a lot of money from selling BP to other players – remember this may seem like a good idea in the short run – but while you have a nifty magic item, the other players will be building a "business", or a barony - in time their property will be earning coin for them - and generating magical gear for them. You can do this too - but only for what a tower is able to generate - if you only build a tower. If you want cavalry - you need Stables - and so on.

I will let you know a few things about that strategy now, however. Sure - you can have all the nifty magic items in the world - but without a properly manned and guarded "vault" (most business and the State will have such things) - you will attract thieves, and you will likely be robbed. Also - unless you are "Crafting" your own magic items - buying them won't be easy. You can only buy things at certain locations - no magical weapons - unless you have a Crafter Shop and a Smith - for example.

Can I barter with townspeople for coin using my BP? Is so - what is the going rate of exchange?

Good question - if you are short on cash to pay your staff - you can always trade BP with the Citizens of the State to earn money to pay your people.

HOWEVER:. The going rate of exchange depends on how much you want to do this - the more BP you want to "spend" with the town - the less coin they are likely to give you.

Generally they will only give you half of the BP value in gold, however. If you give them more then 2 BP - the price will start to go down - and will bottom out at some point. Townsfolk aren't eternally wealthy.

Bonus BP seems more and more useful to my character then - how can I get bonus BP - other then the standard methods?

Lots of ways - personal quests, side quests, and other missives will have posted BP and Bonus Coin (Bonus Coin can ONLY be used for a town - not on personal gear). If you elect to take a personal quest - say if it is a late night and suddenly want to jam something out in a quick study - not necessarily battle - you can also do other upcoming quests - like solving cases, mysteries, that sort of thing - you can gain those BP.

HOWEVER: I also award folks BP for creativity as well. So - for example, let's say you design a really cool map of your "House" where your first students will stay, is you have a private business – See Below. This will not only effect your Reputation with the community (and the people who come to train with you) - but it will also effect your bonus BP - such a design may grant you bonus BP for your work.

Becoming a Lord or Lady – owning my own land – and the advantages that gives me.

There seems to be a lot of unique bonuses to being a "lord" - or rather - a "Formal Member" of the council. Though I may not want to do this at all - I may a second character who wants to join the Council formally and become a "Lord" - how do I do this - and how do I gain my own "barony" if I do?

Good question! First - you must persuade the residing Council to accept your application - this can only be done in "Social RP" - either the players say "yes" - or they say "no" - you can't "force them" with dice rolls (though perhaps magic - but if you use magic - they may not be happy about it - and it could effect you later). You have to raise a good case, and get the other "Council Members" to agree to your application via Social RP on the board.

Though Brett is a GM-NPC, his vote counts. He generally rolls as a "tie-breaker" - but Brett is his own person. If a player has caused him injury - it is likely he will vote "no" if they apply - this is, after all, supposed to be a "neutral good" nation. Players who fight with each other may end up being removed from Council - or not be chosen for a Council seat.

If I am playing two characters – can I have my first character simply vote my second character as a member of the Council?

Whenever a person plays two characters there is always the potential to “break the game” – however, the good rule of thumb is this: yes, you can do that, but it not only must make sense “in game” – but the other players must feel that way, too. In other words – if I make a second player who’s an absolute jerk – and suddenly have him want to be a Council Member – and suddenly have Brett say “Well – you’re a jerk, but you’re the GM’S Character, too – you got MY vote” – that would be some BS! I wouldn’t do that – and, if it looked like I was doing that – and controlled the vote with all sorts of powers – I fully expect you guys to slap me down for it, just like I expect them to slap you down if you suddenly create four new alternate characters, and just have them step up to Council, monopolize it and keep voting in your next character.

That’s not cool – and I hope you guys police it – but if you don’t, well – it is your Council – so you can run it as you want.

Can Cohorts be Council Members?

Again – though that is possible – see the above clause. To further discourage that very thing – I deliberately gave your characters a 28 point buy and 3 traits, and Cohorts gain the standard 25 point buy and 2 traits.

So, yes – you could, theoretically – have a Cohort as a Council Member – if the party agreed – but he is going to be mathematically weaker then a second “playable class”, just something to consider.

When/IF I am a Council Member - how long will it take to gain a "Barony" so I can start Building?

To do that you will formally need to petition the kingdom. You will need to find a "hex" on the map that has 6 free hexes adjacent to it - you cannot build a barony on top of another, or adjacent to it - you must also have at least 30 BP to start. When you "set up" your Barony - you will be granted, for free - one free house. From there, the rest is up to you.

HOWEVER: You cannot build a barony until you are at LEAST level 7, AND a formal member of the Council.

What if I have 30 BP, am level 7, am NOT a member of the Council and still want a barony or land of my own?

No worries! The party has only explored roughly "half" of the main map - via book two. There is quite a bit of unexplored and "unclaimed" - land out west. If by the end of book 2 you have the 30 BP - are not a Council member - and want a barony - you can spend the "year long" in-between time scouting out a spot to the west and taking it as yours - if the Council has not claimed the land,and you meet the above requirements (claim the hex and six blank adjoining hexes). Congratulations, then - you now have a mini-Kingdom - and outside the Council's control.

However - you are personally responsible for its defense and growth - and the Council is not obligated to assist you - formally they must assist any "barony" if the nation is under attack. If they do not, or a baron attacks another - there can be, and will be, civil war - but that is a long way from now.

Rules for running a “Small Business” as an “Independent Contractor” – what it means for you.

How do I set up my “Business”

- These answers relate specifically to Shaezon’s question about opening a Wizard Academy – but are worth noting for all.

BP is used specifically for property - so when you get “Bonus BP” - you can use them to create a tower on “your property” – but ONLY “your property”. To do this - you will need your own district - or property on someone else’s district.

To have a district of your own you must be a Lord – (see above). Or you can build on existing land that the State owns and lets you build on.

If the State permits you, you can buy and BUILD a modest tower, and manor house, etcetera – on an existing District. However - to do this - you will need to spend coin - the relative cost in BP – and the time to construct the buildings you prefer – is directly linked to the BP.

Typically - one BP equals 4,000 GP. So - if you look at the cost for, say - an Alchemical Shop - you'd see it costs 18 BP, or 72,000 GP. A "Casters Tower" costs you 120,000 GP because it's 30 BP.

The first place you need to set up a business is a location. Once you have the location – you can start recruiting. For now – the cheapest place you can buy to start teaching is out of a modest sized house – then expand from there.

If I build on the capital - say, a "Caster Tower", and a "Manor House" - just for my own private use - will it take a "Square" on the formal grid - and does it grant bonuses to the city for taxes, population and all the usual?

EACH will take up the appropriate square. You cannot put a Caster Tower and a Manor House on the same square - even if you own the square - each building takes the correct size on a city property grid, as per the book.

However: it will not grant the city any bonus to Loyalty, Economy, or Stability. This is because you are literally "Buying Property" from the State and using it how you want to.

Any bonus the granted to that district comes from the fact you personally have crafted a cool magic item - or you have ordered your apprentices to formally "Clean up the town" - and they are helping. You will therefore need to persuade the State to "Sell You" their finite amount of "land" from one of their district - and the State needs to know that, if you build something ON the grid - they cannot use that Grid for their own. This will, no doubt, take some social RP between you and the group, as every town has a limited amount of space.

Other then me offering the State cool stuff, as there is no “technical” advantage to the City – why should the State even bother to sell me the land?

One good reason the State may choose to give you the land is that unlike the usual method of collecting loot –the State is able to “Tax” your business. They can charge you a monthly Tax on your earnings – independent of what they normally charge the usual rolls for Economy, Stability. So – even though a “House” doesn’t grant you much of a bonus to “Economy” – your students may be paying you 100,000 GP a month – and the State may tax you 20% and earn 20,000 GP a month – simply because you built a “House” that is really a “School” – and are earning lots of Coin.

Do the rules apply for a property - for example - if I am build a "Shop" and a "House" - and the "Shop must be adjacent to a "House" can it be my "House" or do I need another? Also - do I need to even have a "House" at all, if I just want to buy a "Shop", and it must be adjacent to a "House" - can I use the State's "House" for the purpose of the "adjacent" clause?

Yes - if the building you wish to build needs to be adjacent to a house - you will need the house. This means you will need to buy land for a "house" and build that, too.

I would recommend that you start with buying a "House" - it will be your house specifically, then, not the State's.

For suggestions on expansion I would also recommend as your "First Order of Business" that you buy adjacent to your "House" a "Library" (6 BP and must be adjacent to a house) and an "Exotic Craftsman (10 BP - creates minor magical items, though does not need to be adjacent to a house). You should be able to expand from there over time, but controlling one City Block will have uses to you in the future.

One city block! What if the State will not conceded this to me - they will not be able to generate revenue or taxes from this block, or population Bonuses. Also - though that is cool - a "Wizards Tower" is a forth Square - the State must concede this entire "block" to me - what if I want to expand?

Okay - no worries - first; if you build up the entire square "block" of four grids with your stuff and want to expand into something better - you can simply "Sell" your city block to the "State" (at cost, I'm sure :) When the State "buys it" - they will be granted all the bonuses that you have created for their capital - HOWEVER - they can only pay you in BP for this project - NOT COIN! Once the State owns your created Block - you can then take all the BP from it, and build a better Magic Shop/Academy - somewhere else, if you have the land, or the State is willing to grant it to you.

Or – if the State is generous – you can theoretically take a second “block” from their finite amount of grid space.

The book says 1 "Grid" grants the "Town" a population bonus of 250 Citizens. Does that mean if I buy a "House" - it will let me house 250 students?

No - not really. For that you will need some creative liberties. A house will certainly be large - as you are personally buying it - but not 250 people large. It will have a kitchen, storage area, bedrooms, study, and so on. Actually, you can "design" your own house - if you'd like - the more detailed your design - the more likely I'll give it you. For now - your "House" - where your students work and live - will have for your house a "lot" that is 60 feet by 60 feet - two floors, and a basement. You can give it a ten foot area of grass with statues, or build your house to the very edge of the property. You design it how you want - send me the map/dimensions whenever you like. You can use any "mundane" material in your house at base price (i.e. no adamant walls, and mitrhil doors).

NOTE: The cooler your "Design" is - the more likely student are to want to apply. If you prefer to just give me "the basics", that is - a short paragraph on what is what - and not design anything (i.e. no cool map, no pics with a link for everyone to see), that is okay, too. But creativity will give you bonuses for your peeps AND property!

Normally a town generates BP because of their economy, stability, and loyalty rolls. If I just have a wizard school - how do I generate those things? Do I need an entire Council - or "Staff" in my employ? What's the deal with that?

You don't generate BP at all for a single "private business". You generate revenue - you can convert that to BP - with local citizens - paying them 4,000 GP for 1 BP - or trade with your allies. It may seem expensive - but if you're playing this character (theoretically) over an expanse of "years" - there will be times that we "fast forward" about three or four years - during which time you'll gain a "bulk" of resources, and other things.

For you - those rolls will be based on your ability to be a good teacher. I would recommend pimping out your "Profession: Professor" - in such a capacity (I.E. - master educator - but don't bother dropping ranks in that until 7th level).

Unlike the "book rules" you won't get a few gold pieces a week - this will be "10 GP per student" (standard rules for Profession) - and you won't need to use "Wisdom" as your primary stat - for a "business venture" - you are a Wizard teaching Wizards - use Intelligence. If Kae made a Martial Arts Academy - his "Primary Stat" as teacher would be either "Strength" or "Dexterity" - depending on the class. If you get a "Instructor Staff" - they can "Roll" to "Aid" you, you create and Stat Out the staff - but you must pay the staff to work for you.

Flat Tuition: You set the rate for each student, and go from there. From it I deduct cost of meals - and modest expenses. Generally your "Flat Rate" for tuition should be equal to your Profession: Relative Business Total x 10 GP per student, per month.

Profession (relative skill, professor, museum curator – and so on) – modified by “Relative Stat” – (For example, a Wizard would use Intelligence, a Martial Arts Academy – Strength or Dexterity – A Performing Arts School would use Charisma).

Naturally, you can be flexible in what rates you charge - but that figure is calculated to gain the optimal students.

How do I gain more “students/clients?

This is based on your “reputation” within the community. Your reputation is generally tied to your level – the size of your property – and the ranks you have put into the appropriate “Business Skill”.

The higher the reputation is – the more students you attract, and the higher fees you can charge.

Great – where are the “rules” for reputation?

Currently in the works. They will be done by the time book 2 is finished and added in then.

Tell me about my starting business a little – how do I start my business as a Wizard who wants to teach magic to townsfolk? What do I need to do first to get a “School” – and how do I proceed?

Currently - you have a townhouse for one month. If you'd like to buy something better (say - a "row of townhouses" - or try to formally "Buy" a “House” - 3 BP, or a "Mansion" - 10 BP - you can certainly do this, and you will need to do this, because you will need a place for your Base of Operations.

Remember:The property you own (if it is in the capital) generates no bonuses for your Capital - it is yours alone - provided you can persuade the council to sell to you.

Next, you send out a notice you are looking for students, and will teach them if people can “pay you” each month for “Tuition”. So (pardon the paraphrase) "Hey - I got a school I'm heading up - you give me the coin for room, board, and education - I provide YOU with the teaching!" - that sort of thing.

That would generate you coin each month, once you got the basic “House” in place. The coin would also cover the student’s meals – rent, and basic supplies.

The tricky part is - as you are new to town and setting the "tuition" - depending on your rates of tuition - the caliber of your school - the power of your "reputation" - and so on - this will affect both the amount of students who “apply”, and their caliber.

When you tell me your formal plans - as in: where you will be setting them - how much you will be charging them per month or "semester" - and all that sort of stuff - you will gain a "list of applicants" - created by me - sent for your examination. You examine them - you pick them - you train them.

Why can't you create your own students' stats? Is this true for everyone – or just me?

Well - you can create your own stats and student- but only if you're planning on paying them, in which case, since they work for you, you have more control over them. In this case – you work for them – and are forced to pick and choose applicants.

As I assumed you were creating a “money-making” venture - I planned on keeping a little tighter role on what they were doing. This means I submit to you various character sheets for you too look over – and you go from there. In time, as your school grows – such things won’t be as detailed – but for your “first year students” – the ones that “set the trend” for your school – and Reputation to come, they will be built by me for their starting levels, skills, feats, race, the usual. You take a look at the applicant, and make your call.

However: As you are their formal "teacher" - you will have direct control over the following after they join you;

A. What new “class” they take (Wizard, Sorcerer - and any archtypes)
B. Where their Skills Points go to - this reflects their training
C. New feats they are “Trained In”

However: I control their gear (it is THEIR money, after all) - and their bonus for Stats (you can't control puberty) - this is to reflect their own personal "Growth" - don't worry - they won't screw around with you. I will generally take your advice on that sort of thing, unless I think it is game-breaking.

Does the GM designing the stats for my students apply to just me – or everyone? For example, Kae got to create his level One officers for his army – build their stats and control their stats, for example.

True – but Kae is paying his offers.

So, while Kae is able to create the stats for his level 1 officers - he is personally responsible for paying them out of his own pocket. When he stops doing that - depending on how loyal they are to him - they may turn on him, or not.

On the other hand - your students will be paying you coin - and you can use that coin to turn your starting "House" or whatever you build into the cost of a "School" - or a "Wizard Tower" with attached "Estates". Just remember, as you are building a business in Saravale – your “business” does not grant any “technical” advantage to Saravale, other then what you provide them for free – and what they buy from you, or how they tax you.

This business stuff seems a little too complicated – too much micro-managing. Isn’t there a way to streamline things?

Actually, it’s not that bad. Remember - you create the school - I will send you the applicants and you “choose them”.

The applicants will be directly related to how large the town is – coupled with the rates you are charging.

Next - you create the stats for the "Staff" - and run them how you want – (standard 25 Point buy – two traits).

After that - I'll have a personal thread up for your Business Venture - all I'll need from you is a monthly "Profession" roll, aided by your staff. I'll toss up all the "results" and side stories for you on the thread and we can go from there.

How can other players use this information if they are already a Council Member, or if they want a barony?

It will show everyone a general guideline on how I'm setting up your property - but, for example, if Kae, or Ariarh or Arasmes, want to build, for example, a "Business" in Saravale (for example - Arasmes wants to build an Academy/Library to educate people like a university – "Higher Learning with Racial Diversity - the best minds of the Kingdom from ALL minds of the kingdom - we do not discriminate - knowledge is a gift to EVERYONE!" - and then charge his student tuition - he can do that.

Or if Kae wants to run a "Martial Arts" Academy- and train young people in basic combat and arms - special classes for young people, instruction for women on how to protect themselves in the wild - that sort of thing... He can do that too - he will "earn coin" - even as you and Arasmes do - but I will send him the applicants, he cannot build them (though you ALL can build teachers there - to teach and help you - if you are willing to PAY them, of course - usual rates/rules apply).

However - you, Arasmes, Kae, Ariarh, and Brett would have to persuade the State to grant them the right to build on the grids in Saravale - and the State may not want to do this - because it will certainly prevent Saravale from using its finite amount of property on much needed land/space to help the entire Capital for rolls later.

They may actually want to do things like THAT on their own land. However - on their own land they will probably use the entire area of the town n the more "general" guidelines (for example - they will not need to draw a blueprint on each house - or on their wizard tower - or whatever. It will grant them bonuses in their on baronies - and they use those bonuses as they see fit - if Kae has a barracks on his town, he will be having citizens to recruit - and can, theoretically - be forming an army, taxing his entire population - and earning monthly income on the tax and BP).

Though they may choose to do both - if, for example, Kae had a martial arts academy and asked Ariarh if he could build a second "dojo" on her barony - she may allow him to use her land - knowing this will effect her population - and give Kae bonuses - but then, she may only do this if Kae trades "spaces" with her on HIS land - and grants her room on HIS land to build a School for Druids and a Nature Preserve - or something like that.

Please let me know if you have any other follow-up questions. All of this will be better codified in the book – and you won’t formally be able to start or use this until you finish Book 2 – in between – the year of “Downtime” – your PC will have an entire “year” to generate money for his Business, BP for his nation – and potentially barony – attract your Cohort formally, if you choose one, and have some free time to look over the “Summary” of book 2 – with notes besides.

Excellent – more to come soon. Oh – was there anything else?

Thanks very much, but I just read over all this and I just spotted a loophole in your concept! What if I have my main character – a Council Member with a barony – “allow” my second character the option of creating a “Tax Free” business on my own property – and pretty much use my second character and all his formal powers, including all the money – to assist my “main” character – as he will (no doubt, especially if the secondary character is a Cohort) – be giving all the earnings to baron/baroness. I could “theoretically” have my “Main Character” decide to “Tax” the business of my second character (who exists only to create magical gear for my Main Character – for free, of course) – and then take all the money from the second character’s business, or the Cohort (more then likely, heh heh) and pretty much pimp myself out! What do you do then, mister GM?

Good question. Lot’s of quick things to clarify.

First – if you actually have time to do all that – kudos! You deserve a little something extra, I’ll try to work with you – but don’t expect too much.

Second – The reason you should not expect too much is because I generally run my games on a “Sliding Scale” for challenge ratings. For example – an extremely powerful character “in game” may end facing challenges that are strangely “very hard” for that character – while another character of equal level with a very poor build and either no experience, or bad experience as a player (for example: hey, it’s a Red Dragon – let me use my trusty old “family sword” – yes it’s non-magical and blunt, but hey – it’s sentimental!) – I try to keep the Challenge Ratings about on par, so even though the barbarian will get killed by the dragon - he will at least last one round to die heroically.

This means:

I don’t put a tough monster to fight a PC when I am forced to NPC a player who can’t make it to the game, for example.

If a PC is being NPC’d, and something terrible happened to them – for example – they should have “Died” for an action that someone else had him do – or even a random event – Well, I’ll say this: I have never (though this could change) killed a PC who wasn’t at a game and was NPC’d. I don’t believe in that – it’s not fair for the player, if they suddenly had something important come up; family came over, they had an illness, medical emergency or any other priority – then I will not blame them or “punish them” in game. The worst I normally do is give them some terrible curse or disease.

I don’t put too tough a tough monster against a character with little to no experience in the game.


I DO put tougher monsters against characters that are “more powerful”.

I should add that after some heavy thinking I realize that I have always tended to do this, not only because the tough monsters will go after the more challenging members of your party – but because I like to give everyone a “challenge” – but the same “challenge” is not always equal to the players – so I ease up on some 20th level barbarian who refuses to get a magical sword against a dragon for RP purposes – while I ratchet things up a bit for a 1st level Star Wars Smuggler who – for reason –is playing a “Noghri” – (a “Small” character, to boot – and mainly used to assassinate Jedi –but not this one) and because of this has a Dexterity of 24, on level One, no less even while everyone else has (at best) – a 20, and he suddenly finds himself being hunted down by a Hutt crime boss.

It’s supposed to be challenging for the heroes – but not impossible. And a person who goes on Wikipedia and finds out the ultimate “cheat” to build the unbreakable character often ends up biting off more then they can chew – because not everyone does this – I don’t want to penalize the other players who don’t.

That said: The short answer is if I see players pimping out a town with things like that – it will attract “attention”. Lots of attention – and, if I think the player is using his Cohort simply to “mass-produce” magic items for free for his boss – yeah, things could get sticky for the boss.

And if I see a “lord” of a land granting out all sorts of special privileges to his second player – giving him a business so he can pimp things out – yeah; suddenly that entire town will start attracting attention. Which is bad for the town, and the nation.

In short: This has the potential for some really cool role-playing – but, I know that it also has the potential for some ways to “break” the game. Please don’t “break” the game – run it “in character” – your second characters/cohorts are not a “gestalt” character. They are supposed to be different from your first one – please keep that in mind.

Finally – and again – I recommend making this post a “Favorite” – so you can find it later if you have other questions. Meanwhile – good luck with the current situation!

Please let me know if you have any other questions after reading this post. Thanks, and I hope it helps you guys out!

Quick note –

While Brett is a Councilmember – and can formally claim land (if he gets the prerequisites) – to ease your mind Brett will only claim a parcel of land that none of the PC’s want to take. So – there is that to remember. Brett won't claim the island if another Councilmember wants the island - and so on.

Regarding new boards for Shae and Ras

So far I didn’t put one up for either Arasmes or Shaezon yet – but that was because I didn’t know what you wanted to do with the boards. I also know you are both pretty busy and don't have much time to post - so I didn't know if you would even want such a board yet.

Also - if you want separate boards – we can do that. If you want to consolidate boards – we can do that, too.

Your boards give you the chance to social RP with the NPC’s of the community – and run your “holdings” – as you see fit. Other members of the group can post on them – if invited (such as Arasmes inviting Kae to talk business – or inviting Shaezon into a private meeting) – but again, not certain if you guys wanted Title, Business, or Both – I left that open until I know more.

You guys hash it out - if you want 1 board for the 2 of you - or 2 separate boards - just let me know your preference. Thanks!

To all:

When/If you get a Personal Board for your character – remember – you are playing both boards. That board will be for you to primarily control – while your character interacts with the others on the main board.

Also – (this is important) please don't link your Personal Board's "Discussion Thread” to any other board. Please leave that blank.

In order to make things go smoothly – the “Discussion Thread” on your private board will be used only for combat with you and your heroes on the private board – so it won’t clog the main boards.

Any discussion you need to make - about the main board - or the private ones - do it on the general discussion thread. Thank you!

Okay that’s pretty much all I got to say about that!

I think Shae and I were planning on combining ourselves into a "Barony" and setting it up as a Magocracy. Essentially having the Magus Arcanum or whatever we want to call the "town council" but then ALSO having and running an Academy within said "barony". If I am jumping the gun and that isn't what you thought Shae let me know but that is what I was thinking. Essentially the barony is a cabal of magic users overseeing a town and one of the major selling points of the town is the Academy which is a feeder for the Mage organization which "runs" the barony.

Arasmes ibn'Fayad wrote:
I think Shae and I were planning on combining ourselves into a "Barony" and setting it up as a Magocracy. Essentially having the Magus Arcanum or whatever we want to call the "town council" but then ALSO having and running an Academy within said "barony". If I am jumping the gun and that isn't what you thought Shae let me know but that is what I was thinking. Essentially the barony is a cabal of magic users overseeing a town and one of the major selling points of the town is the Academy which is a feeder for the Mage organization which "runs" the barony.

Works for me - if Shae is down with it. In which case - all I need from you guys is the person who takes care of becoming a "baron".

This is the person who will formally need to petition the Council for the right to have land for the barony. Or - you could attempt to go off on your own and formally try to seize control of land outside the explored boundaries of the map - and with them you could in turn gain your barony without even being a member of the Council.

In other words - since the party is pretty slow in exploring - there is quite a big chunk of the map that is formally "white" - this chunk can be taken by whoever claims it first. If you and Shaezon want to go there - and claim that land as your own - you can. It'll be yours - but it will be up to you protect it and guard it independently.

Unless the Council grants you rights to claim a barony.

Once you have that - we can go from there - and I'll set a board for you, too; just as soon as I get the word from Shaezon.

M Elf Spellbinder Conjuration (teleport) Wiz 2

Let's try to work with the council, but if that poses an issue we'll move outside.

What Arasmes said is on point with what I was thinking. Arasmes should probably be the baron due to his higher charisma, which I think adds bonuses. However Shae has been around longer so if he were in charge formally that would probably help with getting council approval. Really just flip a coin.

Is there a way to co-rule?

Arasmes ibn'Fayad wrote:
Is there a way to co-rule?

Within the context of the barony - yes.

Remember - the baronies have a much more flexible set of rules - as you no doubt realize after reading the earlier post under "house rules". In the baronies you don't go by "kingmaker rules" for how your barony expands. Rather - stats typically take a back door to personal ingenuity, problem solving, and a desire to get the job done.

So if you two want to co-rule - there is precedent in Republics to have Co-Consul's - just ask Pompey and Julius Caesar - or, if you prefer - Octavian Caesar and Mark Antony...

Of course - they didn't always have the best results - still; it can be done.

Also - for fun - just like the other boards - if you guys want to actually start "recruiting" friends for 1st level adventures - when you have a 1st level character or two on your council who goes on adventures - I encourage that kind of expansion.

M Elf Spellbinder Conjuration (teleport) Wiz 2

I suppose we'll invite NPC's to talk and such when we get back.

Shaezon Silverfall wrote:
I suppose we'll invite NPC's to talk and such when we get back.

Well - once you hit level 7 - that's the plan :)

Assuming, of course - that ever happens... ;)

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Hello, fellow Saravalians. Ariarh must come up with a suitable name for our great and grand nation ... of which Saravale is the capital city. I was thinking of honouring Alaric Winter somehow in the name selection for the nation. If you have any name ideas, can you please throw them up on the discussion board here and then I/we can choose and make it all legal like. ;) Thanks.

Male to kill the six fingered man Duelist/20 years


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
imimrtl wrote:

Haha, I already thought of that .. because I love the name but I thought we might get in trouble for violation of some commercial law or another ... ;)

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)


p.s. I don't want this (the name choosing) to take forever, so if I don't see suggestions/agreement on the discussion board by tomorrow, I will make the decision myself and carry it forward.

On a national level? Why not "Excelsior!" It's not only the motto of New York - but Stan Lee! And it means "ever upward" - seems pretty cool to me, but that's just a suggestion...

Brett's formal answer is "Elysium" - it's a cool name, and it has a cool meaning, and is completely neutral.

imimrtl wrote:

Ras - to answer your question on Ariarh's board -

Absolutely yes!

If you read the brief 21 page F.A.Q. I typed up - you would have noticed that if you are able to claim AT LEAST 7 Hexes (the first one, and the 6 around it) - hexes that are on the map - and are not currently controlled by the nation of "Elysium" (or whatever else you select) by fiat of exploration - then those 7 hexes, or more - can be your nation.

Your only issue is - you'll need to make sure you have the income for the nation - and the protection for the nation. It'll be your personal responsibility - but if you got the gumption go for it.

Yeah - because I don't know if you guys are aware - but roughly 33% of the map in book one was not explored at all - it's just blank open land for anyone to "explore" - who has a Charter - and claim it.

Or you could claim it with squatters rights.

If you claimed the land on your own, though - and the others want it as their national land - they may try to fight you for it. But you can fight back - if you want.

Or you can try to forge an alliance - be kind of like Sweden... Remember - if you claim the full 7 hexes - it is 36 miles from one end to the other side of your total property. That's not TOO small... it's just right.

And - if you claim it - you set your own laws - however you like! Just so long as you are able to claim the lands independently.

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)
Dain GM wrote:

On a national level? Why not "Excelsior!" It's not only the motto of New York - but Stan Lee! And it means "ever upward" - seems pretty cool to me, but that's just a suggestion...

Brett's formal answer is "Elysium" - it's a cool name, and it has a cool meaning, and is completely neutral.

Ariarh counters/compromises with the suggestion of "Elysia" and adds it to the list. :)

Ariarh Kane wrote:
Dain GM wrote:

On a national level? Why not "Excelsior!" It's not only the motto of New York - but Stan Lee! And it means "ever upward" - seems pretty cool to me, but that's just a suggestion...

Brett's formal answer is "Elysium" - it's a cool name, and it has a cool meaning, and is completely neutral.

Ariarh counters/compromises with the suggestion of "Elysia" and adds it to the list. :)

Hmm - let's look at the translations...

1. Elysia

- I see....

2. Elysium

Now - come on! Tell me that second one doesn't have a better definition???

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Elysia means pure heart which is lovely. So there. ;)

Ariarh Kane wrote:
Elysia means pure heart which is lovely. So there. ;)

Not according to Wikipedia - and anyway - Ellysium is the place of perfect peace - achieved only by mortals who prove their worth as true heroes!

But "pure heart" is okay, too, I guess...

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

I got the definition for Elysia from Wikipedia. Lol

Ariarh Kane wrote:
I got the definition for Elysia from Wikipedia. Lol

Me too! Man - this sucks that no one else is posting now - so close to the next part of the story!

Have you got it all figured out? I hope so... of course - by now everything is so obvious... or is it?!

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

How about Praxis as the name of the nation? I like the sound of it and from wiki I got this re Praxis: In Ancient Greek the word praxis referred to activity engaged in by free men. Aristotle held that there were three basic activities of man: theoria, poiesis and praxis. There corresponded to these kinds of activity three types of knowledge: theoretical, to which the end goal was truth; poietical, to which the end goal was production; and practical, to which the end goal was action. I like it as it falls into line with Alaric's ideal of freedom and acting/fighting for what is right.

Ariarh Kane wrote:
How about Praxis as the name of the nation? I like the sound of it and from wiki I got this re Praxis: In Ancient Greek the word praxis referred to activity engaged in by free men. Aristotle held that there were three basic activities of man: theoria, poiesis and praxis. There corresponded to these kinds of activity three types of knowledge: theoretical, to which the end goal was truth; poietical, to which the end goal was production; and practical, to which the end goal was action. I like it as it falls into line with Alaric's ideal of freedom and acting/fighting for what is right.

And in America - all teachers are required to pass the "Praxis Test" every few years - and you see how well the American education system is doing for us ;)

No, it's cool - I tossed in my suggestion - but you guys make the vote. No worries, though.

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

I don't know much about your American education system, so yeah .. that didn't factor in. ;) I await the others' ideas and thoughts on the names already suggested.

Ariarh Kane wrote:
I don't know much about your American education system, so yeah .. that didn't factor in. ;) I await the others' ideas and thoughts on the names already suggested.

Not much to know - it sucks; that's pretty much all there is to it.

Quick Rules Clarification Question?

In the Paizo rules all Strength and Dexterity skills have an "Armor Check Penalty".

It used to be that they also suffered a penalty for gear carried. It used to be a -1 per 5 lbs a character carried, so if he tried to climb a wall and was carrying 100 lbs - he would be at a -20 to his climb check.

That number not only seems high - but I know longer see that rule anywhere.

Did they change that rule, get rid of it completely - or what? If you guys know - please let me know.

Thank you so much and good luck - today promises some action - hope you're all up for it!

Let me know a good time for a battle -

FYI - this battle? Yeah - it'll take a while - so, if you can't make it too long - don't sweat it - it could (Realistically) if we have everyone on board - playing Skype and showing up for the whole thing - take about 3 days - or it could take about 2 weeks. Point is - it's going to be ugly - but; there WILL be loot to follow - new races to recruit - and generally good stuff besides.

So - if someone has the answer to my above question - please post it - and I'll see you kids tonight.

One more thing: Due to the fact that not everyone will be on at the same time, and certainly not all available for Skype - and this battle is likely to take more then two days - please also let me know what your preference is for who will NPC you if/while you are gone.

More on the battle to come - and again, good luck!

Male to kill the six fingered man Duelist/20 years

It's all included in the encumbrance rules now. The encumbrance affects the skills so if you have light encumbrance then you have no penalty. Medium encumbrance has a penalty and so does heavy but there is no more for every 20 pounds rule.

What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

If you don't choose Praxis I may steal that for the magical providence or school name.

I also Like Meredian. It sounds magical.

Male commoner 1

the ACP is noted on the Armor, and if you are medium or heavily encumbered. YOu take the worse penalty, so if Your ACP from armor is -2, but you have a medium load, your check penalty is -3, cause that's the penalty for medium armor.

You just apply it to the skill checks that note that the ACP applies.

Well - all I can say is that is pretty wussy to me! When I was a youngster - every 5 lbs you carried added a -1 to anything with an "Armor Check" penalty to it!

I had a thief try to climb a knotted rope - and failed - because he was wearing studded leather - which was 20 lbs - and his weapons and gear were another 11 lbs - giving me a total of -6 to my Climb Check!

God help us all if I had Plate Mail!

However - if there's one thing we all know it's what stickler to doing things formally and by the book, never ever deviating from things at all, even if the rules don't make sense. So - I guess the policy shall stand... For now...


Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Praxis seems to be in the lead right now for the nation's name. I will wait to hear from Ras and Kae today. :)

Hey - meanwhile - can you make 2 "Acrobatics Checks" for the purpose of jumping in 1 round? Like - jump on one table - then jump over to another desk - to get up an area - kind of like par kor - or is that like, only one Acrobatics check a round? Just let me know...

la la la - new playable races are fun... yay me!

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Are you serious about the acrobatics checks?

Ariarh Kane wrote:
Are you serious about the acrobatics checks?

Actually, yes - it's part of a new playable race - I need to know how many times a player can use Acrobatics in a round to "jump" - currently, for example, as the rules state - you can make a "jump" check fairly easily - if it is not too far.

However - if you made multiple "Jump" checks - you could (theoretically) use Acrobatics to jump up certain surfaces.

So - despite unusual circumstances in the past which may make this seem like a fake question - actually - it is really a real question...


New playable races - gotta love 'em!

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Okay, posted on main board. :)

Ariarh Kane wrote:
Okay, posted on main board. :)

Yeah - no, that was like "Can you ..." as in "is it possible for a character to..." - I didn't need you guys to do that.

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Then you should have been more clear -- because that is not what your reply inferred to me. Sorry. Deleted both rolls.

Female Aasimar Druid 7 (Noble)

Can we wait for the others to join in rather than moving forward without any of them? I mean, it's my birthday today so I was hoping to have some free "me" time and take it easy and if I'm the only one on the board (apart from you) that doesn't really leave me with free time to enjoy my birthday ....

Ariarh Kane wrote:
Can we wait for the others to join in rather than moving forward without any of them? I mean, it's my birthday today so I was hoping to have some free "me" time and take it easy and if I'm the only one on the board (apart from you) that doesn't really leave me with free time to enjoy my birthday ....

I hope you have a very happy birthday - I just wanted to set up the first round is all.

May you have a very happy birthday indeed - and may all your wishes give you wings!

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