Smite Evil is great. Maybe too great...


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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LazarX wrote:
Maxximilius wrote:
concerro wrote:
Maxximilius wrote:
Something I'm wondering about : since Manyshot explicitely says it is ONE attack, shouldn't Smite Evil deal double damage on the two arrows ?

Each arrow benefits from it separately as if it were its own attack.

Yes, I know about this, the question is more "do the two arrows shot in the first attack of a smite deal double smite damage".

Since Deflect Arrows deflects both arrows from Manyshot, I think it's safe to say the wording about "one attack" is clear enough and they actually do : here, it's 36 damage on the first attack of a full-round action just with the smite of a level 9 paladin against a dragon (2x(9x2)).
Each arrow does not get smite damage separately, you get one set of smite damage that's applied to the whole attack.

That is not true. All damage is applied to each arrow seperately unless it is precision damage. That is what the feat says.

Quote:
Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus.

Smite damage is not precision damage.

Silver Crusade

LazarX wrote:
Each arrow does not get smite damage separately, you get one set of smite damage that's applied to the whole attack.

Well...

Quote:
If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses.
Quote:
When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus.

Smite Evil doesn't say you get the bonus on your first attack roll, but on your first successful attack.

Manyshot says you get to shoot two arrows, but it is only -one- attack, with each arrow doing damage as normal, with the exception of critical hits and precision damage that is only counted once.

Thus, if you use Manyshot + smite and hit straight on the first attack, then you get for this attack a bonus to damage equal to 2xlevel ; except that both arrows deal the same bonus to damage since this isn't "precision" or "critical" damage.


ciretose wrote:
concerro wrote:
Maxximilius wrote:
concerro wrote:
Maxximilius wrote:
Something I'm wondering about : since Manyshot explicitely says it is ONE attack, shouldn't Smite Evil deal double damage on the two arrows ?

Each arrow benefits from it separately as if it were its own attack.

Yes, I know about this, the question is more "do the two arrows shot in the first attack of a smite deal double smite damage".

Since Deflect Arrows deflects both arrows from Manyshot, I think it's safe to say the wording about "one attack" is clear enough and they actually do : here, it's 36 damage on the first attack of a full-round action just with the smite of a level 9 paladin against a dragon (2x(9x2)).
I understand now. Yes they do since they are only "one attack".
Conversely, you can't ever have a critical smite on that first attack if you use manyshot

Only one arrow counts as the critting arrow, but that is not bad at all.


ciretose wrote:
concerro wrote:
Maxximilius wrote:
concerro wrote:
Maxximilius wrote:
Something I'm wondering about : since Manyshot explicitely says it is ONE attack, shouldn't Smite Evil deal double damage on the two arrows ?

Each arrow benefits from it separately as if it were its own attack.

Yes, I know about this, the question is more "do the two arrows shot in the first attack of a smite deal double smite damage".

Since Deflect Arrows deflects both arrows from Manyshot, I think it's safe to say the wording about "one attack" is clear enough and they actually do : here, it's 36 damage on the first attack of a full-round action just with the smite of a level 9 paladin against a dragon (2x(9x2)).
I understand now. Yes they do since they are only "one attack".
Conversely, you can't ever have a critical smite on that first attack if you use manyshot

No, you can only apply it once. On a crit, you would do (Crit multiple + 1)*Smite damage.


Throwing in my two cents on the original post. Didn't read through the entire topic, sorry.

Smite evil is specifically design to murderface single big bads. Swarms, Neutrals, and my personal favorite, Illusions are all excellent ways to make it much less OP. Ultimately, if a paladin didn't have it, you have a lot less of a reason to play one over a fighter or monk(zen archers are pretty kew).

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