What build to not get assassinated?


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From a discussion last night.

What build (approx level 12) would be best able to survive a Red Mantis Assassin hired hit (of comparable or slightly higher level)?

Our first thoughts were
1) A monk with high dex, perception, alertness, etc...
2) A wizard of diviniation or foresight.

A couple of other questions came up from those.

Does a hit come about as hiring a specific assassin (so if he dies it is over) or as hiring the organization (so they will just keep sending someone better until they succeed)?

Is there some way to hide the fact that you've been raised from the RMA who killed you?

Would the RMA be able to tell if you've been reincarnated?


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

From a discussion last night.

What build (approx level 12) would be best able to survive a Red Mantis Assassin hired hit (of comparable or slightly higher level)?

Our first thoughts were
1) A monk with high dex, perception, alertness, etc...
2) A wizard of diviniation or foresight.

A couple of other questions came up from those.

Does a hit come about as hiring a specific assassin (so if he dies it is over) or as hiring the organization (so they will just keep sending someone better until they succeed)?

Is there some way to hide the fact that you've been raised from the RMA who killed you?

Would the RMA be able to tell if you've been reincarnated?

The RMA has never failed a mission, and they consider assassination a holy thing so they would just keep coming. That is why I never send them directly after the party as a paid job.

I would get high dex, and use alarm spells at the least.


sculpt corpse to look like the intended victim then have someone else turn it in for the bounty to whoever hired out the assassins, they will call off the hit themselves.
there are many variants, modify memory on someone else that looks kind of like you(or exactly like you) to make them think they are you. especially after doing the corpse sculpt raise dead trick below, heck they were already dead, its not like its evil or anything.....hehehe
on a side note
can someone magic jar into a clone that isn't currently in possession of a soul?
sculpt corpse is a nice low level solution if the character is already dead,or you are willing to take extreme measures, change there appearance significantly, then raise them. there are probably a bunch of different ways to hide a person without using mind blank, bestow curse for amnesia insanity coupled with a method to change the body should keep them safe from divinations until you come up with a better solution.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."

Is that a PrC, archtype, race? If so what book is it in?


Kieviel wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."
Is that a PrC, archtype, race? If so what book is it in?

James was bring funny. They are not allowed to assassinate kings or queens so if you were playing the kingmaker campaign whoever got elected as king or queen would be safe. Everyone else is on their own. :)


Kieviel wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."
Is that a PrC, archtype, race? If so what book is it in?

I'd guess it's in one of the later kingmaker books.


Being level 12 provides you a great many skills, feats and magical trinkets that can assist a person / group from assassinations. Damage Reduction, tons of hitpoints, Blindsense etc. Being level 12 also is a curse as you have a degree of renown at that level and the Red Mantis would investigate heavily into such powerful targets. Sending some hired mercs / bandits / summoned monsters after the party while scrying or observing from a safe distance would allow them to see what basic techniques the party uses.

They would take the time to determine who are the beefy fighter types and avoid the usage of anything involving a fort save for them. Perhaps a Magic Jar or Dominate would serve them best then.

Spellcasters? Globe of silence and sneak attack til it stops being funny.

Priest? Covertly steal the holy symbol if possible before the battle.

Level 12 parties are powerful and they would take the time to set up tests and trials before attempting the big hit.

So to answer your question, what is the best class to play to survive a Red Mantis Assassination? A paranoid one.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."
Is that a PrC, archtype, race? If so what book is it in?
James was bring funny. They are not allowed to assassinate kings or queens so if you were playing the kingmaker campaign whoever got elected as king or queen would be safe. Everyone else is on their own. :)

I know ;-) was trying to be funny myself, looking back I should have made it a bit more obviouse...

Though a "King" archtype might be fun for Barbarians... like King Conan :-)


The level of assasination plans and resources in motion is a popular target for regular commune or contact other plane magic. Any assassin targetting higher level characters will have to take that into consideration (mind blank, for instance, makes you basically invisible to divination).


Kieviel wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."
Is that a PrC, archtype, race? If so what book is it in?

The PrC Red Mantis Assassin is in the Inner Sea campaign setting.

for religious reasons, they are not allowed to take out ruling monarchs (i forget the exact wording).


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
What build (approx level 12) would be best able to survive a Red Mantis Assassin hired hit (of comparable or slightly higher level)?

I'd go with Bullseye the Bard with high bluff, stealth, and disguise.

In every town you venture into, pretend you are the fighter of the party. When the assassins come to find you, they'll find the fighter first 95% of the time.

Whether the fighter lives or not, at least you will have a warning to cast Mount and "ride like the wind Bulleye"!


A Barbarian. High HP, DR, uncanny dodge, and good perception scores. High Fort saves for poisons. Good saves vs any magical effects once the party gets started.

Unlike Rogues, Barbarians don't care if THEIR opponents also have Uncanny Dodge.

Barbarians, naked, with the right rage powers can still do a crap ton of damage and other things so even being caught literally with their pants down they aren't screwed. (Beast totem line is nice for that)


James Jacobs wrote:
The best build to avoid red mantis assassinations is "King" or "Queen."
Malafaxous wrote:
...So to answer your question, what is the best class to play to survive a Red Mantis Assassination? A paranoid one.

LMAO. This actually fits perfectly into our conversation.

They way it came up is we were talking about the King Maker AP. My friend said I'd make a lousy choice. Since everybody hates my super paranoid characters, I'd have the assassins after me in no time.

I love it ! ! !


Prost wrote:
A Barbarian. High HP, DR, uncanny dodge, and good perception scores High Fort saves for poisons...

I don't have the book in front of me, but I don't think the RMA use poisons. As a religious thing they are supposed to kill with their sawtoothed blades. They have a will save fascination ability. So a low will save fighter type may be in trouble. Not sure.

Prost wrote:
...Good saves vs any magical effects once the party gets started...

I've been kinda assuming an experienced assassin will wait until she can get her victim alone. So he won't have the part help. At least not immediately, until he can raise the alarm and they can respond.


A Barbarian with Blind-fighting, Combat Reflexes, a Smoking Bottle, and any armor with Fortification eats assassin squads for breakfast.

Uncork Smoking Bottle.
Commence the symphony of screams and butchery in the smoke.
By the time it clears, the Barbarian's soul is cleansed in the blood of assassins.


Malignor wrote:

A Barbarian with Blind-fighting, Combat Reflexes, a Smoking Bottle, and any armor with Fortification eats assassin squads for breakfast.

Uncork Smoking Bottle.
Commence the symphony of screams and butchery in the smoke.
By the time it clears, the Barbarian's soul is cleansed in the blood of assassins.

At night, dinner, etc... prob won't have the armor on.

The blind fighting is definately a good idea.
I had not thought about the smoking bottle.
I'm not sure more AoO from Combat Reflexes will really help all that much.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

At night, dinner, etc... prob won't have the armor on.

The blind fighting is definately a good idea.
I had not thought about the smoking bottle.
I'm not sure more AoO from Combat Reflexes will really help all that much.

The Combat Reflexes is more for the AoOs while flat-footed. Rogues and assassins thrive on surprise, so they can exploit flat-footed targets. CR turns some of that exploitation into a trap - they move in thinking he can't use AoOs and get hacked to pieces for their efforts.

EDIT: Give him a reach weapon and Improved Unarmed Strike. Attack during sleepytime? Rage out and beat them all dead with your fists. Plus it's synergy for standard combat, threatening both adjacent and reached squares.


Master Spy with a few well placed patsies. You spend you life living as someone else while the assassins kill your look-alikes.


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Commoner. Nobody bothers assassinating commoners.


Whatever your build, be paranoid about it.
Casters should look to protect their components. Though if they came close enough to steal your book/symbol, why didn't they kill you then?

There's a trait to have a birthmark as a holy symbol.
Spell mastery for wizards.
Familiars and animal companions make great guards.
Monk/paladin unarmed specialization has great saves and cannot be disarmed.
Sorc/Druid/bard don't need books or symbols, so pack a decoy anyway
control your environment. Casters have the edge here.
Whatever you do, don't trade out poison immunity if you got it.
Ring of sustinance. Never eat anything. Sleep light

Looks like a druid with and animal companion might be a good bet. Alter self/wildshape, an animal guard. Full Spellcasting, venom immunity, decent Fighting ability, Can sleep in odd areas like underwater, as a tree, or airbourne as a swift or such.

Grab some paronoid feats like eschew materials and silent spell, natural spell. You will be well on your way to being an incredibly elusive target.

I'll see about a build later.


By party started, I mean 'the Barbarian beating anyone to death with Pounce and 1d8 20x3 claws he can grow while naked, have natural armor, and have about +7 to saves (In addition to class, stat, cloak, other junk) vs Su, Spell and spell like effects while raging.

Or go with the Superstitious archtype, get Init mods, AC bonus in surprise round and lowlight and darkvision on top of all the above stuff. You loss

The smoke bottle way is nice too.

Tons of ways to make it work with the barbarian. Uncanny dodge is just so usefully when taking sneak attack characters into consideration. (Ninja/RMA) as even the Ninja's Invis Shuriken hail of doom has no effect.

But I am biased. Barbarians just rock.

In the 10th level range, most of the martial classes are likely to do well. It does comes down to 'how stacked the deck is.' But that goes for anything. You could have a goblin that's '1st level' kill a 20th level party if you stack things so over the top.

Is it the 'RMA in a priest robe throws it open and leaps at target while he is talking diplomacy with a functionary in the hallway, so he's alert and awake but not in armor and carrying most of his weapons'

Or are you looking for the '12 RMA slip undetected into the room and attack while he's naked and asleep laying next to his SO/Mistress/the RMA that seduced him to get him into this position'


Quote:

A Barbarian with Blind-fighting, Combat Reflexes, a Smoking Bottle, and any armor with Fortification eats assassin squads for breakfast.

Uncork Smoking Bottle.
Commence the symphony of screams and butchery in the smoke.
By the time it clears, the Barbarian's soul is cleansed in the blood of assassins.

While that will work well against normal assassins it wont do much good against a Red Mantis Assassin.

Quote:
At 2nd level, a Red Mantis assassin learns her signature assassination style. To initiate a prayer attack, she holds her sawtooth sabre (or sabres) out, point down, and weaves the blade in the air. She must be within 30 feet of and visible to her victim. Beginning a prayer attack is a standard action, and causes her victim to be fascinated by her unless he makes a Will save (DC 10 + the Red Mantis assassin’s class level + her Charisma modifier—if she’s wielding two sawtooth sabres, this DC gains a +2 bonus). She can maintain the fascination effect by concentrating. The victim may attempt a new save to escape fascination each time a threat (other than the fascinating assassin) appears. At any point after 3 rounds, she may make a coup de grace attack against the target, provided the target is still fascinated. Activating or concentrating on maintaining a prayer attack does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Uncanny dodge - wont help

Smoking bottle - wont help
Heavy Fort - wont help

A high Will save and a high fort save are about the best you can hope for.


Smoking bottle blocks sight, must be seen for fascination effect right?


Well, uncanny dodge will help. They still do sneak attack.

And Barbarian still has great will saves when raging. (really stupid awesome ones if take right rage powers)

At 10th level any class can get murdered given the right scenario. There is not 'certainly won't die' character.

Paladin. Self heals, high saves, even naked/ungeared, can smite for good damage even unarmed.

Liberty's Edge

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Dwarf barbarian (Brutal Pugilist) with Flesh Wound, Raging Vitality and a 26 CON.

Eat coup de grace.

Laugh.

Take assassin's weapon away from him and jam it up his butt.

Toss assassin's body out the window.

Tell the whores it's OK to come out of the closet while stitching up trivial scratch.


Mike Schneider wrote:

Dwarf barbarian (Brutal Pugilist) with Flesh Wound, Raging Vitality and a 26 CON.

Eat coup de grace.

Laugh.

Take assassin's weapon away from him and jam it up his butt.

Toss assassin's body out the window.

Tell the whores it's OK to come out of the closet while stitching up trivial scratch.

I like you. We can be friends.


Mike Schneider wrote:

Dwarf barbarian (Brutal Pugilist) with Flesh Wound, Raging Vitality and a 26 CON.

Eat coup de grace.

Laugh.

Take assassin's weapon away from him and jam it up his butt.

Toss assassin's body out the window.

Tell the whores it's OK to come out of the closet while stitching up trivial scratch.

Alright lets play that game. A 12th lvl you have a +4 Will save bonus. With a 26 Con your not going to have much left for a will save. But lets say you have a 12 Will.

Now the assassin waits till your in your room asleep after your done with said whores... Readies... nudges you awake and starts his assassin strike as soon as you open your eyes.

A 14th lvl Red Mantis (CR 12) has a DC in the area of 21 + his CHA mod. Now a Red Mantis is slightly MAD so lets assume he has a low CHA with a +4 CHA item. Thats a Will Save around a 24 or 25.

That means your Barbarian has to roll a 20 on his will save. If he doesn't then he is fascinated for 3 rounds in which he doesn't get to rage.

Your Barbarian gave up uncanny dodge so he hasn't acted yet and is flat footed. So damage dealt would be 2d8 + 6d6 + 2XStr + weapon properties.
With a 14 str and a +1 frost sabre.. average damage is

8+18+4+2+3 or a DC 35 Fort save... that's average! vs your +16 Fort save... so again better roll a 20.

The earlier post was correct. A DM should never throw a Red Mantis directly against a party member... unless he really wants him to re-roll.


Dragonamedrake wrote:

That means your Barbarian has to roll a 20 on his will save. If he doesn't then he is fascinated for 3 rounds in which he doesn't get to rage.

Your Barbarian gave up uncanny dodge so he hasn't acted yet and is flat footed. So damage dealt would be 2d8 + 6d6 + 2XStr + weapon properties.
With a 14 str and a +1 frost sabre.. average damage is

8+18+4+2+3 or a DC 35 Fort save... that's average! vs your +16 Fort save... so again better roll a 20.

~reads uncanny dodge~

~reads fascinated status~
~chuckles at above description's inaccuracy~
My money's still on the Dwarf.

Fascinate doesn't negate Uncanny Dodge in the slightest.
Uncanny Dodge works on invisible opponents, and while flat-footed. It beats ALL methods of sneak attack except Feint, Flank (beat by Improved Uncanny Dodge) or physical restraint (such as paralysis). Fascinate is none of those.


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Diviner with improved initiative, blooded, and the reactionary trait.

Mantis: "heeeyaaaaa

Diviner "you're 30 seconds late. Bzzzzzzzzt polymorph"

Dwarf barbarian with uncanny dodge.

Ha.. you stabbed my liver, that's been dead for years!

Alchemist with preserved organs.

Mantis: "Ha! got your spleen!"

Alchemist *holds up jar* What, this old thing?

Dwarven paladin dragon disciple

mantis: HA! stabbed your aorta.
DD: Ach. I'll get better.

Druid

Mantis: Dammit, how am i supposed to know which of these 1,000 bats is the druid?

Bat(spellcasting): Squeek squeeek squeeek*

Mantis: Squeek squeek squEEEEEEeeek!!!!!!!!!


Malignor wrote:
Dragonamedrake wrote:

That means your Barbarian has to roll a 20 on his will save. If he doesn't then he is fascinated for 3 rounds in which he doesn't get to rage.

Your Barbarian gave up uncanny dodge so he hasn't acted yet and is flat footed. So damage dealt would be 2d8 + 6d6 + 2XStr + weapon properties.
With a 14 str and a +1 frost sabre.. average damage is

8+18+4+2+3 or a DC 35 Fort save... that's average! vs your +16 Fort save... so again better roll a 20.

~reads uncanny dodge~

~reads fascinated status~
~chuckles at above description's inaccuracy~
My money's still on the Dwarf.

Fascinate doesn't negate Uncanny Dodge in the slightest.
Uncanny Dodge works on invisible opponents, and while flat-footed. It beats ALL methods of sneak attack except Feint, Flank (beat by Improved Uncanny Dodge) or physical restraint (such as paralysis). Fascinate is none of those.

No my friend you have misread what I wrote. Go back and read Brutal Pugilist... he DOESN'T GET Uncanny Dodge. You are correct that Uncanny Dodge would keep him from being sneak attacked.... but he doesn't get Uncanny dodge. He gave it up with his alternate path.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Diviner with improved initiative, blooded, and the reactionary trait.

Mantis: "heeeyaaaaa

Diviner "you're 30 seconds late. Bzzzzzzzzt polymorph"

Dwarf barbarian with uncanny dodge.

Ha.. you stabbed my liver, that's been dead for years!

Alchemist with preserved organs.

Mantis: "Ha! got your spleen!"

Alchemist *holds up jar* What, this old thing?

Dwarven paladin dragon disciple

mantis: HA! stabbed your aorta.
DD: Ach. I'll get better.

Druid

Mantis: Dammit, how am i supposed to know which of these 1,000 bats is the druid?

Bat(spellcasting): Squeek squeeek squeeek*

Mantis: Squeek squeek squEEEEEEeeek!!!!!!!!!

Again let me point this out. Uncanny dodge wont keep you from being the target of a Red Mantis Assassin strike as it in NO WAY relies on sneak attack. It will add to the DC but that's it. Same goes for the alchemist unless he is immune to critical hits. If he is that might stop it.

A Diviner might have a shot if he is really paranoid. The Druid would have to sleep with bats for the rest his life... not really a great choice either.

Im just saying that the Red Mantis is a horrible thing to throw at a party member. As its been stated even if you kill the first one... they just send another more experienced one... and another one... and another one...

The


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:

From a discussion last night.

What build (approx level 12) would be best able to survive a Red Mantis Assassin hired hit (of comparable or slightly higher level)?

Our first thoughts were
1) A monk with high dex, perception, alertness, etc...
2) A wizard of diviniation or foresight.

A couple of other questions came up from those.

Does a hit come about as hiring a specific assassin (so if he dies it is over) or as hiring the organization (so they will just keep sending someone better until they succeed)?

Is there some way to hide the fact that you've been raised from the RMA who killed you?

Would the RMA be able to tell if you've been reincarnated?

I did think of a good one though to fight against a Red Mantis...

A Beast Bound Witch. At 10th lvl you are practically immune to death. The assassin would have to kill you and your familiar in the same round. Id take Imp Familiar for a Mephit or Quasit. And since your body would be dead it would probably fool the assassin. You take up a new body and all is good in the world. Heck you could even take HIS body and go report back the deed is done lol.


Wouldn't a familiar just be able to, as a standard action, break the fascinate?


Dragonamedrake wrote:
No my friend you have misread what I wrote. Go back and read Brutal Pugilist... he DOESN'T GET Uncanny Dodge.

ACK (Or "NAK" for you fellow geeks out there)! My bad for being too lazy to even look it up.


I would probally suggest a Druid (cave druid or reincarnated). the cave druid can wild shape into an ooze which is immune to SA and Crits and could stay in this form practically all day... making sure that no coup de gras will get them. A reincarnated druid may be better, it can reincarnate any every time they are killed starting at level 5. They appear within 1 mile of the location in a safe spot. As long as they remain hidden for at least 7 days after that they will never fear death.


Andy Ferguson wrote:
Wouldn't a familiar just be able to, as a standard action, break the fascinate?

That could work... but If Im a Beast Bound Witch... its not a huge loss if My body dies. I would tell my familiar to under no circumstances do you come out to help if some sneaky rogue type shows up in my room... you run for help and wait to see if all a sudden you have an extra soul... lol.


Tharg The Pirate King wrote:
I would probally suggest a Druid (cave druid or reincarnated). the cave druid can wild shape into an ooze which is immune to SA and Crits and could stay in this form practically all day... making sure that no coup de gras will get them. A reincarnated druid may be better, it can reincarnate any every time they are killed starting at level 5. They appear within 1 mile of the location in a safe spot. As long as they remain hidden for at least 7 days after that they will never fear death.

Do they loose a level with that ability... I don't think it stated it in the ability. If not that rocks.


Dragonamedrake wrote:
Tharg The Pirate King wrote:
I would probally suggest a Druid (cave druid or reincarnated). the cave druid can wild shape into an ooze which is immune to SA and Crits and could stay in this form practically all day... making sure that no coup de gras will get them. A reincarnated druid may be better, it can reincarnate any every time they are killed starting at level 5. They appear within 1 mile of the location in a safe spot. As long as they remain hidden for at least 7 days after that they will never fear death.
Do they loose a level with that ability... I don't think it stated it in the ability. If not that rocks.

It does not state they do. I would think they would but remember in pathfinder the Permanent level loss from being reincarnated and res'd can be removed with a high level restoration spell.


How to avoid being assassinated by a Red Mantis Assassin?

Be a Red Mantis Assassin.


Oh, how about a level 20 heavens oracle?

Assassin: But but, I killed you!

Oracle: I got better.


Honestly? At around level 12 a single RMA shouldn't be that impressive. They're actually less combat effective if they choose to enter mantis form and they have rogue attack progression to start with. Versus a high AC paladin who can safely ignore fear/poison/attribute & level damage (death ward) and has an alarm spell available... RMA is the mid to high level equivalent of a goblin clan that keeps sending their best warrior to die against you.
(I tested this against a character at the end of the Council of Thieves campaign, with the caveat that they would keep coming after him even though we wouldn't be playing those characters anymore)

I wouldn't mind an updated RMA though, maybe something that abandons shapeshifting altogether.


Kuma wrote:

Honestly? At around level 12 a single RMA shouldn't be that impressive. They're actually less combat effective if they choose to enter mantis form and they have rogue attack progression to start with. Versus a high AC paladin who can safely ignore fear/poison/attribute & level damage (death ward) and has an alarm spell available... RMA is the mid to high level equivalent of a goblin clan that keeps sending their best warrior to die against you.

(I tested this against a character at the end of the Council of Thieves campaign, with the caveat that they would keep coming after him even though we wouldn't be playing those characters anymore)

I wouldn't mind an updated RMA though, maybe something that abandons shapeshifting altogether.

But thats the point. Your Paly wouldnt have his high AC or his Death ward... and you would be flat footed not that it matters with a paly usually. He wont attack you when your ready. He does it when you fall asleep in an inn room where your alarm cant be cast without going off from every random guy passing by your door. You would fair even worse then the barbarian.

That is of course if your DM plays his NPC's smart. An assassin isnt going to walk up to you and say "Hello fine Paladin, thats some mighty shiny armor you have there. I hate to bother you but I am here to kill you. Prepare to die... do you happen to have 6 fingers?"

Liberty's Edge

DEX-advancing barbarian[urban]-2/monk[martial artist]-1/samurai-9

* not only is he not surprised (Uncanny Dodge), he's likely to go first and will make RMA his Challenge buddy
* good saves and lots of multi-roll-pick-best abilities
* Greater Resolve to converts crits into normal damage
* if without weapons (but he wears his Agile/Furious Amulet of Mighty Fists while sleeping), flurries for 1d6+25 or higher per punch vs Challenge buddy


My first response is a gnome 7 divine defender/5 stalwart defender. Stop laughing.


Dragonamedrake wrote:


But thats the point. Your Paly wouldnt have his high AC or his Death ward... and you would be flat footed not that it matters with a paly usually. He wont attack you when your ready. He does it when you fall asleep in an inn room where your alarm cant be cast without going off from every random guy passing by your door. You would fair even worse then the barbarian.

That is of course if your DM plays his NPC's smart. An assassin isnt going to walk up to you and say "Hello fine Paladin, thats some mighty shiny armor you have there. I hate to bother you but I am here to kill you. Prepare to die... do you happen to have 6 fingers?"

You drastically misunderstand me. What you suggest is exactly what happened, I was DM and was flat out TRYING to murder the PC paladin. He was high level pally in cheliax, paranoia was a way of life. He cast his alarm on the interior of the room and accepted both a surprise round and fatigue the next day, every day. Fatigue can be removed. He had the ability to call both weapons and arms due to magic items, (Council of Thieves is one of the only paizo modules with both lots of down time and access to metropolis level markets) and had absolutely no problem smiting the living crap out of the assassin who had little or no ability to harm him.

If the assassin had been after the inquisitor there is a real possibility that they would not have been able to hit him at all, except on natural twenties.

There was a rogue in the party they simply would have never found. If they had, he could have simply eviscerated any three assassins in a single round.

A single red mantis assassin is a threat to a 12 level noble wearing fur robes and sitting in an uncomfortable chair. To a twelfth level professional adventurer they are just opportunities to introduce plot hooks. In the same adventure path, a much more deadly assassin was introduced in the form of a devil rogue trapped in a scroll.


He cast his alarm on the interior of the room and accepted both a surprise round and fatigue the next day, every day.

The red mantis probably has rogue levels. use perception to see the magic alarm and then disable device to remove it. Walk over to the paladin using move silently (they get a -10 to perception because they're asleep) and coup de grace.


Quote:
Again let me point this out. Uncanny dodge wont keep you from being the target of a Red Mantis Assassin strike as it in NO WAY relies on sneak attack.

where's this ability?

Quote:
It will add to the DC but that's it. Same goes for the alchemist unless he is immune to critical hits. If he is that might stop it.

The alchemist is resistant to critical hits, preserved organs gives you light/medium/heavy fortification depending on how many times you take it.

Quote:
A Diviner might have a shot if he is really paranoid.

They're not paranoid. They KNOW when you're comming.

Quote:
The Druid would have to sleep with bats for the rest his life... not really a great choice either.

With the bats one day, in a tree as a raccoon another, then spend dawn and dusk running around with a wolf pack.. finding a druid in the woods is a real pain in the rear, you don't even know what species you're looking for.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

He cast his alarm on the interior of the room and accepted both a surprise round and fatigue the next day, every day.

The red mantis probably has rogue levels. use perception to see the magic alarm and then disable device to remove it. Walk over to the paladin using move silently (they get a -10 to perception because they're asleep) and coup de grace.

That was the point of casting the alarm on the **interior** of the room, set to activate if any of the entrances was disturbed. Less warning but no chance for disarm without entering the room, which sets off the alarm. Being an assassin doesn't grant you the magical ability to ignore inconvenient precautions.


Tharg The Pirate King wrote:
I would probally suggest a Druid (cave druid or reincarnated). the cave druid can wild shape into an ooze which is immune to SA and Crits and could stay in this form practically all day... making sure that no coup de gras will get them. A reincarnated druid may be better, it can reincarnate any every time they are killed starting at level 5. They appear within 1 mile of the location in a safe spot. As long as they remain hidden for at least 7 days after that they will never fear death.

Not so. The Red Mantis have an innate knowing if one of their targets comes back to life within a year of the assassination. So long as you are on the same plane as them of course.

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