Kirth, if you'd like an extra pair of eyes on proofreading the final edition before the April 1 "due date", I'd love to help out.I'd sure appreciate any help you'd like to offer! If you let me know your email address I'll be happy send what I've got.
Everybody Else: If you're genuinely going to proofread and offer comments within a week or so (to give me time to address your comments), let me know your email addy and make the promise. I don't have the time or the inclination to send out docs to people who may or may not do so, however, so if there's even a 1% chance you won't follow through, please spare me the effort!
Perhaps we can get a list of whos working on what section so we don't duplicate work.
Perhaps we can get a list of whos working on what section so we don't duplicate work.
What one person glosses over or thinks is "just fine," another person might be able to detect as seriously broken abuse just waiting to happen. I would therefore encourage people to review whatever they wish, even if it overlaps with other peoples' work.
Thanks! I'll try and remember to email everything out this evening.
I'm pro numen (mentioned it in a spoiler)
I'm happy to proofread, though how much i am a slow reader? If it's all the spell bit's awesome i'd love to- but if it's everything i may pick and choose - otherwise i wont keep up :D
As you can see I've been proofreading as i go anyway!
So sign me up
Aside question - a friend wants to play a monk - he's pointed out that now you have given them "weapon form" which makes them do awesome damage with there temple weapon what incentive is there to use your unarmed strikes? He feels the scaling damage will be far better than ki strikes. Thoughts.
It's just strange. I think of the monk as the martial artist and Eli keeps coming back to that +1/2 level damage trumps fistycuffs - and I cant really see why he's wrong - except cool strikes and Medusa strike (or gorgon strike, something like that) giving you the +2 attacks.
He's just pointed out meduses wrath gives you + 2 unarmed attacks when you make a full attack action - but you can do that while full attacking with a greatsword! eek!
I noticed that Auris got a LOT of mileage out of switching damage types (Prc/Sls/Blg) with unarmed strikes last session -- which he can't do with the chain. There are also times when you don't want to be hauling around a greatsword.
That said, I would like to increase monks' unarmed damage to come closer to what they had in 1e:
1d6 at 3rd-4th level, 2d6 at 8th, 4d4 at 12th, 5d6 at 16th.
Only I'd smooth it out to 1d6, +1d6/4 levels (max 6d6 at 20th).
That way a 16th level monk could deal 2d6+12/19-20 with a greatsword (mean 19, max 24 disregarding crits), or 5d6+4/19-20 unarmed (mean 19.5, max 34 disregarding crits). That way, up through mid-level you'd still be better off with the greatsword, but the Grand Master of Flowers would be better off unarmed.
Thoughts?
Not sure I can support more damage dice for monk strikes. I'm not into adding bigger numbers.
Understood. I don't mind bigger numbers, largely because I like to keep fights short and brutal. A higher damage to hp ratio than the Pathfinder norm is fine with me -- I'm used to 1e, in which a great wyrm red dragon has all of 88 hp.
So, nonlethal CdGs came up in game yesterday. How do you handle them, Kirth?
Sorry for the delay -- just saw this.
The answer is that I've never had to!If someone needed to CdG and had only simple weapon proficiency, there's usually nothing keeping them from picking up a piece of brick or something. I probably wouldn't allow it with a spell or eldritch blast that deals only nonlethal damage, however.
That said, I would like to increase monks' unarmed damage to come closer to what they had in 1e: 1d6 at 3rd-4th level, 2d6 at 8th, 4d4 at 12th, 5d6 at 16th. Only I'd smooth it out to 1d6, +1d6/4 levels (max 6d6 at 20th).
Thoughts?
That seems really good to me :), it doesn't weaken weapon form, yet keep unarmed strikes up there :D, thus weapon monks and unarmed monks are viable! While the unarmed monk is "weaker" at lower levels he does have the Ki strikes in his favor
Some standardization of size bonuses to damage should be made, as increasing monk size will probably be very strong on an assumed 3d6 weapon! (or 6d6 one!)
Hum another little boost that could help would be changing Critical Focus to allow one monk "Ki attack" (eg doom) to be unleashed on a confirmed critical hit! (much like it does with strikes :D)... (Which the weapon user could then also access with versatile blow!)
Qn: Could a monk take Ability Focus "ki strikes", for +2DC, or would it be on a strike by strike basis.
God Bless,
James
Typo: Penetrating shot mentions the critical mastery feat - this does not exist!
Qn: Could a monk take Ability Focus "ki strikes", for +2DC, or would it be on a strike by strike basis.
By the rules, ki attacks are treated as spells, so you couldn't apply Ability Focus at all (you'd take Spell Focus in the correct school instead).
Yes, but how long does the unconscious condition last when you get nonlethally KOed at full HP?
If the KO is from nonlethal damage, I'd apply the effects of Take a Breather after 1 full round unconscious. If that doesn't bring 'em back up, then he'd have to wait to heal some damage naturally.
EDIT: Looking at your spoiler, I now see what you were getting at -- like a knockout punch against a helpless target. I'd allow that, too. Your rule looks fine. Why all the massive interest? Is this something you feel that I need to include a chapter on in Kirthfinder?
Preliminary Proofreading:
INTRODUCTION
* Page 7: Remove “(whether or not the save is successful)” from the Light Wound paragraph.
* Page 8: In the second paragraph under Combat Maneuvers, change start of first sentence to “CMD is equal to 10+DMB+Dex plus …”. Add a sentence that specifies that you lose Dexterity and Dodge bonuses to CMD any time you lose them to AC (ie when flat-footed).
* Page 9: Add a period at the end of the sentence beginning with “In addition …” near the end of the Tricky Maneuvers paragraph.
* Page 10: Change the end of the last sentence in the total defense paragraph to “… the penalty to attacks is -2 per +2 bonus to AC.” to match the table which shows the same penalty for fighting defensively and total defense, but total defense giving greater AC bonus.
* Page 11: Change “provoke” to “provokes” in the last sentence under the How do AoO’s Work? paragraph.
RACES
* Page 1: Change “Elf Paragon” to “High-Elf Paragon (‘Daoine Sidhe’)” in the Typical Classes paragraph.
* Page 2: Add a sentence to the Racial Progression paragraph indicating High Elves are eligible to advance in the Drow paragon class.
* Page 4: Change “Elf Paragon” to “Wood-Elf Paragon (‘Lledrith Sidhe’)” in the Typical Classes paragraph. Since it is a different paragon class, I recommend allowing wood elves to count it as a favored class.
* Page 4: If wood elves (in addition to high elves) can also become drow, add a sentence to the Racial Progression paragraph indicating such.
* Page 7: Change the end of the last sentence in the Stubborn paragraph to: “… but can try the other one in the following round if the first reroll ability fails.”
Looking forward to April 1, have been lurking on this thread awhile.
I would vote numen. Or potentia or something similar. Mojo sounds too current-worldy to me. Interesting (or not) sidenote: In Australia, we pronounce the word "new" as "nyoo", "Newman" would be "nyooman" and numen either "nyoomen" OR "noomen". I disregard any word-connection to pop-culture references - they are too noomerable and worrisome to contemplate!
P.S. Great work by all on this thread, I can't wait too see the finished result and attempt to unleash it on players...
Preliminary Proofreading:
Thanks! These corrections have been made.
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Going through the documents in order as well. :)
Introduction
Level Advancement
- The non-associated levels section is kind of vague... I think that there’s a big difference in the effect on the CR between say, Druid 19/Sor 1 and Druid 1/Sor 1. I think just adding that this only affects CR considerations when you have at least 4 levels in a primary class (or whatever number you think is appropriate) would solve this problem, since you do specify it only counts for 1 level in a given ‘secondary’ class.
Combat Maneuvers
- I believe deflection bonuses apply to your CMD in the Core rules; is this a conscious change for KF?
- Question: Why are the feats no longer named Improved Forcing Maneuvers, Imp Tricky Maneuvers, etc?
- <quibble> I think that Clever Positioning should be explained as a subset/paragraph of the Reposition rules, or at least put alphabetically afterwards, because it’s annoying to read it and have absolutely no idea what it’s talking about because you haven’t read Reposition yet. Especially since it’s basically just the Reposition maneuvers but slightly more special. </quibble>
- Minor style issue: I think if you’re going to describe the rules of Dirty Trick you might as well make it its own bullet point like Interrupt Action, there’s no reason to keep it in the blurb of Tricky Maneuvers.
Tactical Movement
- I think it would be appropriate to mention here how this works with Two-Weapon Fighting, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
1. I believe deflection bonuses apply to your CMD in the Core rules; is this a conscious change for KF?
2. Question: Why are the feats no longer named Improved Forcing Maneuvers, Imp Tricky Maneuvers, etc?
3. I think that Clever Positioning should be explained as a subset/paragraph of the Reposition rules, or at least put afterwards.
4. Minor style issue: I think if you’re going to describe the rules of Dirty Trick you might as well make it its own bullet point like Interrupt Action.
5. I think it would be appropriate to mention here how this works with Two-Weapon Fighting, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
1. Yes, in part because they get handed out all over the place, and in part to keep CMB from getting too outrageous.
2. Because Impr. Trip and Impr. Grapple have been separated back out, as have Impr. Bull Rush and Impr. Overrun.3. I agree! Done.
4. Again, agreed and done.
5. Added the following text: "If you are using Two-Weapon Fighting, you must take your attacks in pairs (one primary, one off-hand) when possible, unless you also have the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat."
Thanks for the review (and especially the quibbles, which are after my own heart) -- I look forward to MOAR!
I've done some non-linear walking through the documents, but will also follow this section by section trend :D
I havent much to say on the introduction (and it's been covered far better above), but these are the couple of things i got :D
All documents
Introduction
1)Page 8: combat manuvers fails to mention CMD includes Dex bouns!
2)Tatical movement: the phrase "5ft increment" confuses me for some reason. Though I now understand what it means , perhaps "in multiples of 5 feet" would be clearer (this is more notable in the feet section, under skirmish / spring attack). I assumed one attack then a 5 ft move then one attack :D, obviously the example makes this clear, but not in the later sections
Equipment
with the new changes to familers i wondered if ther should be a slight numen cost to the leadership feat? meh.
Monk
Bonus spells: open up certain domains to monks to allow them to change there bonus ki powers; eg time, law etc. (possiably with notes to change them to stances and strikes) {just noticed there is no time domain} - or give them the option of changing them when they get the next bonus power etc (It's not that there not great, just some options for choice would be good)
Ranger
Can chose Spontanious or Prepaired; if spontanious he gets his spell levels two levels later than prepaired caster (as he does not get the +1 bouns spells on his spell known list, he cant cast 1st level spells till 4th level as he knows none), of course this is aliavated entirly by the domain ranger lore, but perhaps a surgestion to that effect should be made in the section surgesting spontinaity
Spells
Typo page 6: "the ... metamagic feat" though it looks like you have marked this to come back to it
Charm Pereson: is it cha damage(or not)? does it work in a fight? how does this mesh with Bardic minstral charmer no +5 to saves in combat?
{I would make it a cha damage(penality?) spell, but you don't realise it has been cast on you-"subtle damage"-but still give the +5 to saves in combat, as the flip side of subtle is it works less well against agressive targets} It's a standard spell but not clear from the list if it is changed by this option (It's not mentioned anywhere i think)...
Doesn't having so many abilities that attack stats, makes it surprisingly easy to shut down casters? Blast the cleric with a confusion and his wisdom drops, suddenly he can't cast any spells (his wis went from 15 to 10)
There is not to much in each section, and only the intro is fully read (barring your campaign setting, soz.) I will start on a another document in full now :D Hope this helps
God Bless,
james
Bonus spells: open up certain domains to monks to allow them to change there bonus ki powers; eg time, law etc. (possiably with notes to change them to stances and strikes) {just noticed there is no time domain} - or give them the option of changing them when they get the next bonus power etc (It's not that there not great, just some options for choice would be good)
If you want new subsystems/substantial rules additions, I want another year to work on them.
If you want an April 1st document, I'm addressing editorial concerns/corrections ONLY (and I may not even get to them if I have to write detailed responses to questions, as opposed to fixing problematic rules and the occasional typo).
my post became a pm :D
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Races, Part 1
Generally speaking there’s a lot of difference in terminology scattered throughout this document. For example, compare the wording of the Drow Attribute Boosts vs. the Daoine Sidhe ability, or how you word the favoured class bonus line in wood elves vs hill dwarves vs orcs. I’m not sure how much this bothers you, of course, so I won’t take the time to point these things out unless you want to have that level of pedantry inflicted upon you. ;)
... Not that there isn’t a lot of pedantic commentary coming up as it is. Anyway!
- Why are the races not in alphabetical order? Is it just because elves/humans are important to your campaign setting?
- Typo in Critical Focus: “at which point your are considered to have”
- I actually suggest wording the same trait slightly differently because currently it’s a bit clunky with the whole ‘you can gain this multiple times; pick a different weapon, or the same one’ part. It’s sort of implied with these favoured class bonuses that you can pick different items or the same one (e.g. the skill rank one, you can put it in different skills each level). Obviously this applies to all other critical focus things in other races.
“Choose a weapon from the following list: longsword, rapier, or smallsword. You gain a +1 circumstance bonus on critical hit confirmation rolls with that weapon (maximum bonus of +4). When the bonus for a weapon becomes +4 because of this ability, you are treated as having the Critical Focus feat with that weapon. This bonus does not stack with Critical Focus.”
- Typo in Saving Throws for Daoine Sidhe: “High elf paragons levels provide good progression”, likewise this should also probably read “Daoine Sidhe levels”...
- I’m not sure why you specify ‘cold iron allergy 1’ when AFAIK it’s not really a term in the game and you have to explain it anyway...AND it doesn’t even relate to cold iron (the material) at all! Wording it like “However, you also become allergic to the touch of metal, and take 1 point of damage per round while wearing iron or steel armor” seems more appropriate. Maybe even “while in contact with iron or steel” if you want to be more prohibitive (i.e., an elf chained up with iron chains might even die)
- Not sure why the bit about being soulless in the Elf Lord ability is in parentheses...
- The blind-seeming eyes bit could do with some rewording too. “Your blind-seeming eyes grant you the ability to continuously see invisible creatures (as see invisibility)” It’s already stated in the ability name that it’s a Su ability, and the ‘continuously’ part is more appropriate than at-will (as it is a continuous effect rather than an at-will effect, which sounds more like something you can activate).
Wood Elf
- Since wood elves now get a different racial paragon class, it’s no longer “(see above)” but “(see below)”... unless you mean that they can become Daione Sidhe too? Little confusing here.
- Why does the Wood Elf favoured enemy bonus apply to all civilized humanoids but the High Elf one applies to all non-high elves?
- Favoured Terrain racial feat could just give the actual Favoured Terrain feat rather than specifying the effects again... “You gain Favoured Terrain (forests) as a bonus feat at 1st level.” Same goes for other races that have this ability.
- Keen Senses for Wood Elves should be (Ex/Sp) not just (Ex)
Hill Dwarf
- I seriously don’t think Arcane Resistance is balanced with the other traits. +2 vs. poison ... or +2 vs. ALL MAGIC. Or even +4! Considering that a feat is +3 vs. spells of one specific school plus a reroll, I’d be hesitant to say that +4 vs. all spells is equivalent in power.
- I think the spell resistance is likewise really good ... but it’s theoretically balanced against hardy, so ehh.
- What happens if a dwarf with the Spell Resistance trait takes the paragon levels and gains it again? Wasted level?
- Why is it called the Hill Dwarf Paragon class but the Dverge/Sidhe/etc, shouldn’t it be Maahiset?
Mountain Dwarf
- I feel like Elemental Affinity should also apply to Earth elemental wizards, Stone mystery, etc in some way. Same goes for all similar abilities.
- Bonus skills, Class skills, weapon proficiencies, and some of the other abilities in the paragon class refer to ‘mountain dwarf paragons’ and not ‘dverge paragons’
- The Dverge racial class gives really damn good attribute boosts... bonus to all stats rather than picking one. Could be strong.
Gnome
- Gnome Trickery paragon ability: it’s really meant to be CL = gnome paragon level? So a maximum CL 5?
- Deep Magic ability: shouldn’t the stacking for class abilities of sorcerers and illusionists apply to Earth elemental sorcerers and stone mystery incarnates as well?
- Strength of Stone: just say you gain a +4 bonus to strength, you don’t need to clarify that it removes the racial penalty (since that’s what it effectively does anyway), then just say you gain an additional +2 str at 5th and 6th levels.
Goblin
- The blurb about racial progression refers to Goblin Paragon class rather than the Bugbear class.
- Shouldn’t Intimidating Prowess just give the feat? Maybe specify that they don’t need the requisite 6 ranks in bluff to add both Str and Cha.
- Sneak Attack Progression is worded poorly, also fails to mention a fighter who grabs sneak attack. Something like this would be better:
“If you have a sneak attack bonus from another source, you may add your bugbear level – 1 to your class level for the purpose of determining sneak attack damage.”
Halfling
- I believe the elf did this as well actually... why state what the Skill Synergy (Physical Prowess) does, but not say, Skill Focus (Handle Animal), or any other feat? Remove the “providing a bonus” part, imo. A player would have to look the feat up to know that it gives a +2 bonus to both anyway, I don’t see the point in repeating this information. Same goes with the Athletic Prowess paragon ability.
- Weapon training ability: “throwing weapons” rather than “thrown weapons”
Orc
- Intimidating Prowess should just give the feat (like bugbear)
- Orc paragon weapon/armor proficiency: Why would you state they ‘retain’ their orc weapon familiarity? You don’t lose any weapon proficiencies ever...
- Elf-Slayer: Actually this applies to all the other favoured enemy traits, how do these stack with taking levels in ranger?
- No Light Sensitivity: You change from third person (‘an orc paragon...’) to second person (‘the range of your’) in this ability.
- I feel like the Orc Warlord ability would make a cool feat. I can see a Barbarian leading a horde after tests of strength proving he is the most mighty, etc.
- Final Rage: So you’re also limited to 5th level barbarian when you use this, or can you go up to your full BAB as per your rage ability?
Alice,
Thanks for the comments. I'm not really able to provide detailed responses and also make corrections, but I appreciate all the input! I'll incorporate your corrections and James' as soon as I'm able -- hopefully tonight.
One quick response to your most obvious question: yes, elves and humans come before everyone else because of their primacy in the campaign setting.
Spells, more editorially! (no response needed :D)
Spells
Page 4 - clarify can spells with purley vocal components be disrupted (provoke AoO)? if yes leave as is, if no (there is nothing to disrupt) mention this.
Page 4 - Change "If you are struck by an attack of opportunity provoked by not casting defensively, you must succeed at a concentration check at DC 10 + damage sustained (see table) or lose the spell." to "If you are struck by an attack of opportunity provoked by not casting defensively, increase the DC of the 'casting in combat' concentration check by the damage sustained (see table)"
Page 4 - "The Disruptive fighter talent (q.v.) increases the DC for casting defensively by +4" add "for all threatened enemies" or equivlant
Page 4 - replace "(see Preemptive Actions, above)" with (see Preemptive Actions in Ch 1)
Page 4&5 -Change "This applies to effects with a range greater than long range, and specifically excludes conjuration/summoning effects other than teleportation" to "This applies to effects with a range greater than long range, and spells of the Scrying & Teleportaion subschools. Note spells of the Calling & Summoning subschool are unaffected."
<Without the scrying clarification you can clairvoyance into the kings bedchamber, as it is not greater than long range; also calling & summoning spells do not have "range" greater than long and are not teleportation spells - they just seem like they are!>
Page 5 - change "Ressurection Survival" to "Ressurection survival (Optional)" <for non-long time limit campaigns>
Non-editorial thoughts:
Castles and Dungeons; Awesome!
Counterspelling; Awesome!
Defult Spell paramaters: Being a caster is hard work - this made me laugh! I have infact bought a lovely looking 'notebook' to be my spellbook entirly because of this rule (and what a good rule)
Thats's it for a bit, I'll continue later :)
God bless,
james
James -- these are great -- I'll get on them ASAP.
Good catch on the "range" as listed issue, and I agree Res Surv should be optional (as is everything, really, but that one especially so!).
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Races, Part 2
Something that occurred to me while writing this is that it would be cool to have a way to pick up additional racial feats/traits somehow. Maybe a feat that allows you to do so? Additional Racial Traits—you gain either one racial feat or two racial traits. Something like that.
Hobgoblin
- Attribute boost...what? A human’s +2 bonus? On top of the attribute modifiers they already get? Should probably word it like “You gain a +2 bonus to one of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution” like many of the racial paragon classes do. Seems strong, too, considering that orcs get +2 str/-2 cha for a racial feat.
- Ultimately I feel like you don’t really need to keep referring to the human feats ‘but different’, just state what the hobgoblin racial feats do.
- The elf-blooded hobgoblin has the same weird thing, “The elf’s attribute bonus to Dexterity”... I think you should just say “a +2 bonus to Dexterity”.
- Actually, why not just combine the two hobgoblin racial write-ups? Just specify that only an elf-blooded hobgoblin takes the elven immunities thing, like you do with the gnomes (rock/forest/city). Saves room.
Changeling
- Typo in Doppelganger’s Unnatural Vitality ability: “these bonuses stacks with your initial”
- Change Shape: Better wording—“You can use your minor shape change ability as a standard action rather than a full-round action. If you do not have the ability, you gain it.” Something like that.
- Come to think of it, why is it “minor shape change” but “change shape”? haha.
- I keep feeling like the “this bonus stacks” lines should just be changed to read “your racial bonus increases to +4” (or whatever), if you insist on keeping the lack of untyped bonuses! Same goes for where this appears elsewhere.
- Alter Self: there probably shouldn’t be a comma after “an alter self spell”
- Detect Thoughts: no need for the comma after ‘as a spell-like ability’.
Fetchling
- Gloomsight: “Starting at 3rd level, you can see in darkness.” I thought you already could with darkvision? ;) I guess just state that it’s as the special ability, because I was totally confused at first read, haha.
- Swiftness typo: “for all your modes of movements” (shouldn’t be pluralised)
Feytouched, Aquatic
- Their favoured terrain refers to “below surface”; should be “underwater”
- I don’t think you need to state that the Elemental Resistance ability functions ‘as’ the feat; it IS the feat (just with a slightly different focus than normal)
- Infinite Deflection: “charisma” is not capitalised. I would suggest rewording this ability as: “Starting at 4th level, your unearthly grace ability is no longer limited by your class level.” ... that’s all that really needs to be said.
- Poison ability should be worded like this, including the formatting:
(touch or spray—contact; save Fort DC 10 + ½ your sirine level + your Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Con damage plus blindness; cure 2 consecutive) < this is actually a pretty low DC as you go up in levels, would you consider making it the standard DC calculation (10 + 1/2 HD + Con)?
- Same question about the DC w.r.t. the Drowning Kiss...
Feytouched, Non-Aquatic
- What an ugly name... O_o I feel like it could just be ‘feytouched’, seeing as MOST fey are non-aquatic..
- River Spirit Folk are now above, not below (although I feel like aquatic should be below as it’s more of a subset), and the same thing is mentioned in the Racial Progression section (and is now called aquatic feytouched anyway!)
Grugach
- They don’t have a list of languages they can learn, unless you intend for it to only be Sylvan and Giant.
- Typo in Ambuscade ability: Grgach are skilled at...
- Shouldn’t Ambuscade just be a Skill Synergy feat?
- Grugach ‘might be eligible’ for the Wood Elf paragon class? 1) Why ‘might’, are they, if not, how do they become so? 2) It’s now the L-something Sidhe class...
Hagspawn
- They only have 1 language to pick for high intelligence?
- Aquatic feat: Third not second person.
- Hagspawn should get their claws as a racial feat, not in the weapon proficiencies section, it’s just a weird place to put it.
- Would be nice to see that hag paragon class, but maybe some other time. :)
Genasi
- Languages section refers to them as ‘half-genies’ not genasi. As do typical classes, ability modifiers, and racial feats. The references are scattered throughout actually.
- Typical classes refers to ‘the appropriate bloodline’, should put ‘genie’ in that sentence.
- Elemental affinity: so genie bloodlines get +2 effective cha, but other elemental-ish things just get +1 CL?
- Elemental Resistance refers to ‘any existing fire resistance’, should remove the ‘fire’ from that.
- Why would someone ever take Low-Light Vision over Darkvision?
- Genie class is referring to ‘genasi paragon’ here and there.
- Genie Magic is kind of confusingly worded... Maybe something like:
“Genies receive the following spell-like abilities, depending on their type, at the indicated class level breaks. Caster level equals your HD.
(spell lists here)
You can use the spell obtained at 2nd-level at-will when you reach 4 HD, the spell obtained at 4th-level at-will when you reach 8 HD, and the spell obtained at 6th level at-will when you reach 12 HD.”
Half-Giant
- Typical classes refers to psychic warrior... so when will we see Kirthfinder Psionics, hmm? ;)
- Giant class keeps referring to ‘half-giant paragon levels’
- Again with the ‘retaining’ the proficiency... they shouldn’t ever lose it.
Man-Ape – WTF. O_o
- The race should just get the Intimidating Prowess feat.
- There’s two periods after the bite natural attack entry.
- Rend: your ‘clam’ attacks are quite delicious :)
1. I’m not sure why you specify ‘cold iron allergy 1’ when AFAIK it’s not really a term in the game
2. Elf-Slayer: Actually this applies to all the other favoured enemy traits, how do these stack with taking levels in ranger?
3. Final Rage: So you’re also limited to 5th level barbarian when you use this, or can you go up to your full BAB as per your rage ability?
Quick answers:
1. It is now -- and might just show up in the future... in general, if it's a mechanic I might want to use later for other stuff, I prefer to go ahead and define it as such. I agree the name should simply be "iron allergy," however.2. The "maximum bonus equal to half your class level" is there for exactly that reason.
3. You are not "an ally" of yourself.
Gloomsight: “Starting at 3rd level, you can see in darkness.” I thought you already could with darkvision? ;) I guess just state that it’s as the special ability, because I was totally confused at first read, haha.
"See in darkness" is a defined standard special ability in the core rules; all devils get it, for example.
Why would someone ever take Low-Light Vision over Darkvision?
An extra 120-foot range with a lantern is nothing to sneeze at...
And if you're already getting (or will be getting) darkvision from another source, it might be nice to have LLV also.|
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3. You are not "an ally" of yourself.
You have to be an ally of yourself for certain abilities/spells to work as intended, IIRC. Although maybe not in Kirthfinder. Not sure. Anyway, it's irrelevant, because the ability says "Any allies within ten feet (including you)"... :)
"See in darkness" is a defined standard special ability in the core rules; all devils get it, for example.
I realise that it is, it's just that it's not really clear from the wording. You always state that you gain "the scent special ability" or something similar, so why not for this?
Alice -- clarified those things. Thanks. Regarding "you" being an "ally" of you -- I've written everything from the standpoint that you're not your own ally; in cases where you, too, are affected, I've tried to always say "You and all allies..." instead. Maybe that needs a note in the intro? Or a glossary would be nice, one of these days.
Sorry if I came across as groggy -- was up past my bedtime editing documents. This project would sure be a lot easier to finish if I weren't spending 9 hours a day at work!
The time i have set aside today has failed somewhat - but here we are anyway:
Spells continued
Page 4 - Missed this before, but just looking at core rulebook: change "1 ft. of solid stone, 3 ft. of earth, an inch of metal" to "1 ft. of solid stone, 3 ft. of earth or wood, an inch of metal" as per detect thoughts
Page 6 - Change "(this is a specific exception to the rule for immediate actions described above)" to " (this is a specific exception to the rule for immediate actions described in Chapter 1)."
Page 7 - Change "(or anyone with a wand and Use Magic Device skill)" to "(or anyone with a wand and Spellcraft skill)"
Page 7 - Add "Detect Magic: Range is reduced to touch, see below." (Otherwise this important change could be glossed over)
Page 7 - Add "(see Scaling Bonuses in hightened spells, below)" to Spells Providing Bonuses to Skill Checks
Page 7 - "Change For example, the Ray Burst, Reach Spell, and Selective Spell feats," to "For example, the Shape Spell, Reach Spell, and Selective Spell feats,"
Page 8 - Change "for example, a sorcerer could simply learn maximized fireball as a 6th level spell (with the normal casting time), rather than selecting fireball as a 3rd level spell and also taking the Maximize Spell feat (and requiring a longer casting time)." to "for example, a incarnate could simply learn maximized searing light as a 6th level spell (with the normal casting time), rather than selecting searing light as a 3rd level spell and also taking the Maximize Spell feat (and requiring a longer casting time)." <the sorceror's 5th level rapid metamagic ability negates the need for the increased casting time sentences, but the example is better for having them, therefore I change the example to an incarnate :D>
Page 8 & 9 - After "For spells providing a bonus of +1 per caster level, the maximum bonus is equal to the number of dice shown in the damage cap table." add "according to the number of targets, and arcane/divine nature of the spell as appropriate"
I also have a question and thought - the question wood be good to think about, the thought not so much.
Question: <not what you want, but an interesting interaction>-How do metamagic feats that apply effects (like bewitching spell's confusion effect) combine with the save or suck mechanics? I assume thay would add on an atribute penality (or even damage/drain) if these options weare used. If so this might need to be clarified. also a generic Metamagic feat could be made to cover weakened, Slowed, Infirm, Feebleminded, Confused & Charmed: The one that combines two spells (thus Ray of enfeblement + other spell for fell weaken etc)
Thought: Con penilty possiably very strong? While at low levels it's not great an 8+ level magic user will get a lot of milage out of 1d6+4 con penality spells. But it's no longer save or suck so that is good... To be fair I haven't play-tested it so cant tell! :D
God Bless,
james
James,
I agree on all points on attribute penalty spells. I have no idea if they'll tilt things against casters too much, if they'll be too powerful, how they'll ineract with metamagic, etc. They're included as an optional idea that will need further development, playtesting, and thought -- and I definitely need to put an introductory paragraph to that effect in the text. My hope is that peope will try them out and report back their experiences.
In other words, the other chapters I consider more or less done, but the new magic stuff is very much tentative at this time.
Thanks,
--Kirth
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Races, Part 3
Farspawn – I love the term “tentacular”...
- Type: “It is always treated as evil-aligned, for purposes of adjudicating spells and auras.” Need to nix that comma and then add in ‘for THE purposes’
- Damage reduction harkens back to 3E style, talking about the enhancement bonus needed to bypass it.
- Improved Grab is kind of different to the typical Grab rules in Pathfinder... which normally functions only on up to your size, gives a +4 bonus to grapple attempts, and doesn’t mention anything about taking a penalty for only grappling with the body part used in the attempt. Not sure if you care that much though. link to the rules
Lich
- Refers to mojo here (if you go ahead with the ‘numen’ change)
Lizardfolk
- I feel like you shouldn’t mention the +2 Str per level in their attribute modifiers section, seeing as you don’t do it with all the other races that gain bonuses from their paragon classes...
Lycanthrope
- “Medium large cat” huh? :) I think you could skip the size qualifier and just state the animal... heck, you could skip the specifications altogether, leaving it up to referee and player to determine what animal form the lycan should take. I’d personally be looking at the Young template and things like that.
- Can the curse ability be something that you can inflict when you choose? I’m not sure I’d like a PC lycan to be turning every enemy they face into a werewolf. ;)
- Large ability: ‘improves by 1 due type’ – not sure what you mean by this.
- I think it would be nice to get a way to be in animal/hybrid form as much as you like, as the Bestiary lycanthropes.
Planetouched
- Space down that paragraph beneath the SLA table so it starts on the next page.
- If an aasimar sorcerer (celestial bloodline) continues in the Planetouched progression, how do you figure out her resistances when she gains more through the paragon class levels, as her Planetouched levels stack with Sorcerer in that regard? Just use the sorcerer values, and ignore the Planetouched ones?
Vampire
- Blood Drain typos: “If you establish or maintains a pin, it drains” (should not be plural/should be ‘you drain’) “or gains 5 temporary” (no plural)
- Servant of darkness ability has an opening parenthesis ( but no closing parenthesis )
- Slam ability says ‘+1 magic weapons’, should just be ‘magic weapons’ as the exact enhancement bonus is irrelevant
- Gaseous Form typo: “You regains 1 hit point”
- Energy Drain typo: “this abiliy bestows two”
Skills
- Athletics: Jumping onto an enemy isn’t really clear. 1) So you can replace your attack roll with an Athletics check? 2) What are “the normal benefits of jumping down”?
- Athletics: the run usage directs you to Acrobatics for making a jump check, when this is an Athletics check...
- Athletics: Shouldn’t you be able to hold your breath for a period based on your Endurance ranks not your Athletics ranks?
- Diplomacy: What is a Wealth check?
- Escape Artist: “at least half as wide as your Facing” – what is this talking about?
- Heal: I feel like Perform Surgery is pretty useless in the face of First Aid. At level 5, a cleric will easily have a Heal modifier of (4 wis + 5 ranks + 3 trained + 2 healer’s kit) = +14. In 2 minutes, taking 20, the cleric can restore 34 hp, once every encounter! Heck, as a full-round action only she’ll heal an average of 24 hp. And yet surgery takes hours and leaves them exhausted for even longer, has a limitation of 1/week, and restores 5d6 hp (average 17 hp). I don’t think the First Aid ability is overpowered per se—I mean, CLW wands are cheap as chips—but I think that it vastly outperforms and renders useless the perform surgery ability.
- My suggestion is to just switch First Aid and Surgery’s healing amounts. First Aid does 1d6 per level (or perhaps 1d6 per rank in Heal), making it kind of like a cure light wounds shot, but you can only do it once an encounter. Surgery heals an amount equal to your Heal check, reflecting the fact that a character with a better Heal score actually makes them better at performing surgery. What do you think?
- Heal: Examine Injury and Perform Autopsy should be the one ability, just with the specification that the DCs increase when the target is dead.
- Perception: Space down the headers for the Search table to the next page.
- Spellcraft: “you get a special +2 bonus on your check” – should be a proper typed bonus, not just an arbitrary ‘special bonus’
- Spellcraft: Dispel an Active Spell – I don’t get how this works like ‘disabling a magical trap’, for example buff spells and so forth... what happens when you fail by 5 or more? What happens when you beat the DC by more than 10? Also dispel magic should be italicised in this ability.
- Survival: Typo—‘how heavy a load is being carryied’
- Linguistics: Scribe scroll typo—“the spell appear to be scribed”
I think it would be nice to get a way to be in animal/hybrid form as much as you like, as the Bestiary lycanthropes.
On first thought, I disagree -- if it provides attributes bonuses continuously, it would be overpowered unless heavily modified; if not, it basically just makes you a Furry, and there are other RPGs for people who are into that! If you have concrete suggestions, though, I'm open to them.
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Hey, I'm no furry, I just like lycanthropes. :P I enjoy playing characters that spend a lot of time in their animal form. I actually made a Lycanthrope sorcerer bloodline, haha...
I don't necessarily think it's OP, especially for the animal form being at-will (can't use weapons/armor and no iteratives pretty much seals that deal, no spellcasting without Natural Spell either). The vampire also gets an at-will animal form (at 5th level), as do various sorcerer bloodlines (at 9th level). You could scale the uses per day by total HD and make it become at-will somewhere around 10th level perhaps. Maybe 1 use per 2 HD, at will at 10 HD.
The hybrid is more questionable, but I'm not so convinced that it would be that much more powerful than other things people could be getting.. I'd definitely make it a polymorph effect (so you can't stack beast shape and hybrid form) that can be dispelled/removed, and maybe make the bonuses enhancement (or size, like other polymorph spells) so they don't stack with as many things.
An extra lycanthrope level or two, or perhaps a feat or two, could also serve to balance it out a bit...
The hybrid is more questionable, but I'm not so convinced that it would be that much more powerful than other things people could be getting.. I'd definitely make it a polymorph effect (so you can't stack beast shape and hybrid form) that can be dispelled/removed, and maybe make the bonuses enhancement (or size, like other polymorph spells) so they don't stack with as many things.
An extra lycanthrope level or two, or perhaps a feat or two, could also serve to balance it out a bit...
Good points, and having an at-will hybrid form as a capstone feature is a great way to do what you'd asked -- I would totally allow that if a player asked.
Would you like to write up the new class and present it?
Bonus spells: open up certain domains to monks to allow them to change there bonus ki powers; eg time, law etc. (possiably with notes to change them to stances and strikes) {just noticed there is no time domain} - or give them the option of changing them when they get the next bonus power etc (It's not that there not great, just some options for choice would be good)
OK, James, just for you I've added a "domain disciple" sutra for the monk:
Variant Channeling: When casting a non-instantaneous spell, you can channel time in order to extend the spell’s effect. As part of the casting, expend one use of channel energy; this doubles the duration of the spell being cast. The maximum level of spell you can affect in this manner is equal to the number of dice you would normally channel. You can expend more than one channeling use in order to extend the duration further; each use takes the place of one additional spell level of metamagic cost (see Extend Spell feat in Chapter 7).
Domain Spells: 1st—precognition, 3rd—gentle repose, 5th—haste, 7th—research aidDr342, 9th—second chance, 11th—contingency, 13th—fate of one, 15th—temporal stasis, 17th—time stop.
Extend Spell: At 1st level, you gain Extend Spell as a bonus feat.
Blinding Speed (Sp): Starting at 8th level, you can act as if hasted for 1 round per day per cleric level you possess. The duration of the effect need not be consecutive rounds. Activating this power is a swift action.
Temporal Exemplar (Su): At 20th level, you stop aging, and do not die when your natural life span would normally be up.
A class that's gotten a fair bit of positive buzz is the Wolfshifter from Wayfinder #5 or 6 magazine. It's a 20 level class, and might provide a good framework for an adaptation of this type of class theme for Kirthfinder.
For those interested, that's a useful tip! I personally don't have it, nor can I reasonably see buying and adapting it within the next week (and also do everything else I need to do), though, so Kirthfinder will have to do without.
Not a proof-read post, just something that came to mind: I'm suddenly very confused if i dreamt this (and it seems a good idea), or this is in one of your documents somewhere and i came across it:
For innate metamagic rather than having a slightly confusing caster level cost you had a table which looked like:
Ranks in spellcraft Uses per day
2xlevel of spell 1/day
3xlevel of spell 2/day
4xlevel of spell 3/day
5xlevel of spell at will
(I made up the numbers) Now I thought this was a really good and awesome idea, but just went to look at innate metamagic and couldn't find this... If you haven't used it my dream was fantastic - however i think it's such a nice idea (modify it use it however, or tell me where it was from - it clearly doesn't just have to apply to innate metamagic) it must have been yours in another document somewhere :D
God Bless,
james
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Just had a quick look at the Wayfinder article (thanks, Caedwyr!) - an interesting class, but it seems to me that the Kirthfinder barbarian does all of that and more. But here's my attempt at making a "true lycanthrope" class (for lack of a better term!)
It's very roughly done, but you get the idea.
True Lycanthrope
Level BAB Special
1st +0 Change shape, low-light vision, lycanthropic empathy
2nd +1 Moon magic, natural armor, scent
3rd +2 Damage reduction
4th +3 -
5th +3 Curse
6th +4 True lycanthrope
Change Shape (Su): All lycanthropes have three forms—a humanoid form, an animal form, and a hybrid form. A lycanthrope can shift to any of its three alternate forms as a full-round action.
Once per day per lycanthrope level, a lycanthrope can assume the form of an animal (as beast shape I) as a full-round action. At 4th level, this functions as beast shape II.
You can choose to apply the effects of this ability without changing your form completely, allowing you to assume a hybrid form. The hybrid form gains all abilities, bonuses and penalties as described in beast shape III, and is the same size as the animal form or human form, whichever is larger. Equipment does not meld with the new form between humanoid and hybrid form; magical items automatically resize to fit the hybrid form, but non-magical items do not. You do not retain the ability to speak while in the hybrid form.
On nights when the full moon is visible, a lycanthrope must make a DC 20 Constitution check to assume humanoid form. A slain lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form, although it remains dead.
Low-light Vision (Ex): Lycanthropes can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): In any form, lycanthropes can communicate and empathize with animals related to their animal form. This functions as the ranger’s wild empathy, with an effective ranger level equal to the lycanthrope’s class level.
Moon Magic (Ex): Lycanthrope levels provide Weak synergy towards existing transmuter spellcasting progression, if any.
Natural Armor (Ex): You gain a +1 natural armor bonus. At 5th level, this increases to +2.
Scent (Ex): You gain the scent special quality.
Damage Reduction (Ex): At 3rd level, a lycanthrope gains DR 5/silver in animal or hybrid form. At 6th level, this improves to DR 10/silver in animal or hybrid form.
Curse (Su): Starting at 5th level, a lycanthrope's bite attack in animal or hybrid form infects a humanoid target with lycanthropy (Fortitude DC 15 negates). If the victim's size is not within one size category of the lycanthrope, this ability has no effect. A lycanthrope can choose to not pass on his or her curse, if desired.
True Lycanthrope (Ex): At 6th level, you come into your true power as a lycanthrope. You can change shape as a standard action, and you can do so a number of times per day equal to your total Hit Dice. In addition, you retain the ability to speak in hybrid form (although you must still take the Natural Spell feat in order to cast spells). At 12 Hit Dice, you can change shape at-will. At 16 Hit Dice, you can change shape as a move-equivalent action.
Corrections of the Feats document will be coming up soon :)
OK, James, just for you I've added a "domain disciple" sutra for the monk/I've also added a Time domain
They are awesome Thanks you, a lovely balanced fixed.
Here is some very non essential Archery domain and monk musings:
Could add Archery to the monk list (for the zen archer) if they chose bow as there temple weapon :D The name zen archery made me think of it, not "i think it's needed etc.", but hey you can't flurry with a bow anyway!:(
Oh, And the time domain is lovely!
:D
He is some ROGUE proofreading (I took a break from the meta magic)
Page 2 - Skill tricks: change "Table 1 (referencing Spellcasting Table 1 in the Introduction)." to "Table 1 (referencing Spellcasting Table 1 in Chapter 7. Spells).
Page 2 - Skill tricks: Change "Examples of skill tricks, and their associated skills, are provided below (1)." to "Examples of skill tricks, and their associated skills, are provided below(1)." (obviously with the superscript)
Page 3 - I think this "Unless otherwise noted, using a skill trick requires a full-round action, unless the talent in question involves movement" might need changing slightly to incorporate spells with longer casting times (notably clairvoyance's 10 min casting time) and the faster casting times of swift/immidiate spells (e.g. catsfeet)
How about
1. Spells that are usually swift/immiade actions remain so.
2. Movement spells may be incorperated into a move action.
3. Spells that are marked swift action (and are not usually) last till the begining of your next turn <as is currently>
4. Spells with a casting time of 1 standard action up to 1 full round take 1 full-round action
5. Spells with casting time longer than 1 full round take that longer casting time.
<My worry steamed from clairvoyance on tap! Alternatively put a swift clairvoyance there, can always see into an divinable room, but only for a moment!><Swift expeditious retreat... normal expeditious retreat could be activated with a move, and would last all fight so is probably strictly better!>... You could leave this all as is and "fix" clairvoyance somehow :D
Page 3 possiable add to "If you make a sneak attack during a surprise round with a concealed weapon that the opponent does not know about" "or an attack during a surprise round where the target is completly unaware of your presence" or something of this ilk.
if you change the above then change "thereafter, it will be wary of such a trick from you (even when surprised)" to "thereafter, it will be on it's guard against such attacks (even when surprised or unaware of you)"
Page 6 - change "If you do so, your rogue levels provide Strong theurgy towards your arcane casting progression (Spellcasting Table 3 in the Introduction)." to "If you do so, your rogue levels provide Strong theurgy towards your arcane casting progression (Spellcasting Table 3 in Chapter 7. Spells)."
Page 8 - Delete bold "Night Vision (Ex): You gain low-light vision and darkvision 60 ft. (your choice)." as the text indicates you get both
God Bless
James
Not sure I can support more damage dice for monk strikes. I'm not into adding bigger numbers.Understood. I don't mind bigger numbers, largely because I like to keep fights short and brutal. A higher damage to hp ratio than the Pathfinder norm is fine with me -- I'm used to 1e, in which a great wyrm red dragon has all of 88 hp.
Impossible. Ancient Huge Red Dragons had 88 Hit points.
Venerable, Wyrm and Great Wyrm ages were all added in 2E to 'upgrade' dragons. 3E built them up further from there.
The edition wars continue!
==Aelryinth