Kirthfinder - World of Warriorcraft Houserules


Homebrew and House Rules

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MinionMaster wrote:


1. Ancestral weapon gives you a masterwork weapon that you can enchant for half. However, it doesn't require any type of proficiency nor does it give any type of proficiency. Would it make sense to give it some type of Synergy bonus at a certain BAB to get martial and then exotic proficiency in that weapon? Perhaps those proficiencies only apply to that specific weapon, not even that weapon type. So if you have your Ancestral Longsword with a BAB of +6/+11, you can use it as if you had exotic proficiency. But if you pick up another longsword, you don't.

2. What is your reasoning for the different scaling of the +enhancement ability feats? Charisma only gives a +2 bonus and requires you to pick up the feat multiple times. Agile and Stamina training and strength training scale upwards with your ranks in a skill, requiring only one feat use. This makes the feat less useful at latter levels and seems to go against the trend of feats/abilities/skills getting better as you get better.

1. (a) Remember that personal mojo is level-dependent, so a blanket cost savings on better enhancements forever scales with level accordingly.

(b) I'm generally unhappy about feats that give free feats, except in very tightly-controlled circumstances (for example, exotic weapon proficiency giving the effects of one feat with that specific weapon type only). Your suggestion does retain a limitation, which I like, but it also potentially creates a chain of cascading bonus feats. For example: Ancestral Weapon (a heavy flail) -> Exotic Weapon Proficiency (heavy flail) -> Crushing Blow (flail). I'm unwilling to add links to cascading feat chains at this point unless it helps clear up some kind of extraneous rules sub-system.
(c) Minor nitpick, but "enchant" means "affect with an Enchantment spell." Weapons are generally mindless, and therefore cannot be enchanted, although they can be "enhanced" or "imbued."

2. (a) Charisma is a single go-to stat for a lot of classes (minstrel, incarnate, sorcerer, etc.), whereas Str, Dex, and Con are universally useful, but not generally centrally important to any one class (for example, a barbarian pretty much needs all three physical stats). I could have added a caveat to the feat so that some classes get scaling benefits, and others have to take it multiple times, but that gets clunky and unwieldy. I might allow scaling bonus to Charisma on a case-by-case basis for a rogue character who rolled low (for example) and is earnestly trying to improve his presence, but I wouldn't let a sorcerer pick up a scaling Charisma bonus for the cost of one feat.
(b) As an extension of the spells use: given that the spell save DC function applies to spells of all levels, a flat bonus to Charisma does effectively scale with level: At CL 1st, you gain a +1 bonus to the DC of all 0- and 1st-level spells; at CL 3rd, this bonus also applies to 2nd level spells; at CL 5th, this bonus also applies to 3rd level spells; etc.


Kirth Gersen wrote:

]1. (a) Remember that personal mojo is level-dependent, so a blanket cost savings on better enhancements forever scales with level accordingly.

I'd forgotten about mojo, I need to read through that again to try to understand it better.

Quote:


(b) I'm generally unhappy about feats that give free feats, except in very tightly-controlled circumstances (for example, exotic weapon proficiency giving the effects of one feat with that specific weapon type only). Your suggestion does retain a limitation, which I like, but it also potentially creates a chain of cascading bonus feats. For example: Ancestral Weapon (a heavy flail) -> Exotic Weapon Proficiency (heavy flail) -> Crushing Blow (flail). I'm unwilling to add links to cascading feat chains at this point unless it helps clear up some kind of extraneous rules sub-system.

That's a good point, I hadn't thought of that. The limitation isn't really anything when compared to all of that bonus then.

Quote:


(c) Minor nitpick, but "enchant" means "affect with an Enchantment spell." Weapons are generally mindless, and therefore cannot be enchanted, although they can be "enhanced" or "imbued."

Oops

Quote:

2. (a) Charisma is a single go-to stat for a lot of classes (minstrel, incarnate,...

I suppose I can see that, in part. I think the sorcerer also relies on Wisdom in order to hit with their eldtrich blasts though. don't those count as ranged touch attacks? Dexterity also is something a blaster/controller would want due to the initiative bonus. I can see dumping Str and maybe leaving Con as a 10 although a 12 Con would be nice at lower levels.

While explaining (quite excitedly) about this system to a friend yesterday, he posed a question about if it was possible to put together a certain type of character. He had asked about the warlock, loved the inclusion of it into the sorcerer and then wondered if there was a way to make a Sorcerer/Rogue who channeled eldritch blast through melee attacks.

I'm pretty sure this can be done by simply using Spellstrike, correct? The rogue/sorc could channel the eldritch strike through his weapon using Spellstrike and, if picking the magus bloodline, could also cast another spell on top of that. He should be able to cast Vanish, 5' step, then attack with sneak attack + eldritch strike. Mind you at a -4 penalty from the ability + strike. It'd be mitigated a bit by the +2 from being invisible though.

I have a few more questions:
1) Why does the magus ability Athame require TWF to work when the default ability from the magus does not? Its pretty much a feat tax simply to get your ability to work, and it won't apply any other benefit since you need a free hand already.

2) Is there any feat that gives a reduction in the penalty for using certain strikes on full attacks? I know that a few of them can be used with a full attack at a -5 penalty to all atacks, I wasn't sure if a feat or ability existed to remove this penalty.


MinionMaster wrote:

0. He had asked about the warlock, loved the inclusion of it into the sorcerer and then wondered if there was a way to make a Sorcerer/Rogue who channeled eldritch blast through melee attacks. I'm pretty sure this can be done by simply using Spellstrike, correct? The rogue/sorc could channel the eldritch strike through his weapon using Spellstrike and, if picking the magus bloodline, could also cast another spell on top of that. He should be able to cast Vanish, 5' step, then attack with sneak attack + eldritch strike. Mind you at a -4 penalty from the ability + strike. It'd be mitigated a bit by the +2 from being invisible though.

1. Why does the magus ability Athame require TWF to work when the default ability from the magus does not? Its pretty much a feat tax simply to get your ability to work, and it won't apply any other benefit since you need a free hand already.

2. Is there any feat that gives a reduction in the penalty for using certain strikes on full attacks? I know that a few of them can be used with a full attack at a -5 penalty to all atacks, I wasn't sure if a feat or ability existed to remove this penalty.

0. Yes; since Spellstrike is a [Strike] feat, a rogue can activate it on a successful sneak attack. Upcoming Spellstrike erratum: it should work with SLAs, in addition to spells, so you can use it in conjunction with your eldritch blast.

One Round 1, he could cast vanish and take a 5-ft. step. Then on Round 2, he could deliver a single eldritch blast-laden sneak attack using Spellstrike, or even make iterative Spellstrike attacks (all at -5) if he also has the Battle Touch feat. (P.S. I have no idea where your -4 to attacks is coming from.)

1. Think of the Athame as an arcane bond, which is a pretty nice class feature to begin with. Then grab TWF as one of your sorcerer bonus feats. With both, you gain a synergy effect, as described -- you essentially become able to quicken spells for free while in melee. And even if you don't get TWF, you still have a free bonded weapon, which functions as such without the feat.

2. Weapon Focus immediately comes to mind. The fighter's Onslaught of Blows class feature is really handy for that, too!


I wonder about changing the name "mojo" to "numen." Per Wikipedia, numen is a Latin term for "potential," and "The word numen is also used by sociologists to refer to the idea of magical power residing in an object, particularly when writing about ideas in the western tradition. When used in this sense, numen is nearly synonymous with mana. However, some authors reserve use of mana for ideas about magic from Polynesia and southeast Asia."

I had picked mojo based on the self-power aspect: "Mojo is a magical charm bag used in voodoo, which has transmuted into a slang word for self-confidence, self-esteem or sex appeal," but on reflection, numen seems closer to the actual meaning we're shooting for. Still, I kind of like "mojo," if for nothing else because of the Austin Powers reference.

Opinions?

Liberty's Edge

I like numen a lot more than mojo! Mojo to me just screams... well, Austin Powers. It's more about sex appeal and such in my mind, and never sat well with me. I actually initially dismissed the mojo system simply because of its name (although later serious readings made me realise that it's very very cool).


Thanks for the reply, Alice -- and especially for the helpful commentary.
If there is no other feedback within the next 18 days, the motion carries.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I personally don't mind, but honestly have never heard of 'numen'.


But I'm all about the mojo...

;-)


TriOmegaZero wrote:
honestly have never heard of 'numen'.

Isn't that half the fun, intentionally using 40-cent words when penny names will do? That's why Gygax was obsessed with the word "dweomer."


Kirth Gersen wrote:

I wonder about changing the name "mojo" to "numen." Per Wikipedia, numen is a Latin term for "potential," and "The word numen is also used by sociologists to refer to the idea of magical power residing in an object, particularly when writing about ideas in the western tradition. When used in this sense, numen is nearly synonymous with mana. However, some authors reserve use of mana for ideas about magic from Polynesia and southeast Asia."

I had picked mojo based on the self-power aspect: "Mojo is a magical charm bag used in voodoo, which has transmuted into a slang word for self-confidence, self-esteem or sex appeal," but on reflection, numen seems closer to the actual meaning we're shooting for. Still, I kind of like "mojo," if for nothing else because of the Austin Powers reference.

Opinions?

I think numen looks better linguistically, although I'm not sure if it sounds better when spoken or not. Especially if you consistently put it in italics every time it appears, although I have no idea why.

Thanks for answering my questions!

The -4, I was getting from using both abilities together. TWF gives a -2 penalty to attacks and I had thought (maybe wrongly) that Spellstrike also gave a -2 penalty when used.

I had forgotten/not realized it also gave an arcane bond which is the real advantage. Perhaps if you put a Synergy claim/citation right before talking about the TWF part, it will look better? I think my reaction was simply from a perception that it was a feat tax, rather than a bonus. When you label things as synergy it makes one think of something as a bonus rather than being required to have X and Y in order to do something cool. I understand there is practically no difference, but it seems nicer.


MinionMaster wrote:
Especially if you consistently put it in italics every time it appears, although I have no idea why.

Because it's Latin, not English. Also, magic items and spell names all get italicized, so why not magic item potential? But I could go either way on the italics.

MinionMaster wrote:
I had forgotten/not realized it also gave an arcane bond which is the real advantage. Perhaps if you put a Synergy claim/citation right before talking about the TWF part, it will look better?

Yes, I agree. Consider it done.


P.S. My problem with "numen" is that I keep hearing it as "Newman," and start thinking it's a system to track your sald dressing and spaghetti sauce intake. But all proceeds go to charity!

Either that, or I hear "pneumen," and think of breath or air.

Maybe the homonymifierousness of the word is an impediment to its adoption.


I was thinking it'd be useful for there to be a sort of Synergy list. Something that lists what feats/abilities have on other feats/abilities/skills.

For example, listing somewhere that a feat or skill boosts another ability/feat could help a person in selecting character options. Let's say someone is debating getting combat reflexes for extra opportunity attacks. It might help figure out what other feats to get if they knew that combat reflexes gave improved bonuses to: teleport sense, cleave, open-handed parry, ranged threat, cooperative combat, evade reach, snake style, & telling blow.

I made a list of some of these, but its not complete/completely accurate. I originally started out listing what every feat was affected by as well. However, this isn't all that useful since the feat will tell you that already in its description. Not sure if this is at all helpful, but I know the list will help my PC's when we start a new game with these rules.

Feats:
Adaptable Flanking: Dimensional Agility
Arcane Boost: Mystic phoenix stance
Dodge: Surefooted
Deft Opportunist: Striking mastery, Telling Blow
Battle Touch: Two-Weapon fighting, Spellstrike, Channeling strike
Channeling Strike: Vile Strike
Combat Reflexes: Teleport sense, Cleave, Open-handed Parry, Ranged threat, Cooperative combat, evade reach, Snake Style, Telling Blow
Combat Expertise: Two-weapon defense, Exhausting defense
Cleave: Combat reflexes, Staredown,
Critical Focus: Deadly Stroke, Killing strike, Rattling strike, Slowing strike
Critical mastery: Penetrating shot
Dispelling Strike: Improved Dispelling, Draw attack opportunist, Staggering strike
First Blood: Iajutsu Focus talent
Improved Critical: Draw attack opportunist, Killing Strike
Improved Dispelling: Spellcraft, Dispelling Strike
Improved Bull-Rush: Giant-slayer, Mounted Combat, Improved Shield Bash
Improved Feint: Dodge, Giant Slayer, Draw attack opportunist, Distracting Strike
Improved Trip: Giant Slayer, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Weapon maneuvers, Redirection
Improved Forcing Maneuvers: Redirection
Improved Grapple: Giant Slayer, improved weapon maneuvers, Awesome Blow, Crippling Strike, Ghost strike, Killing Stroke, Knockout Blow, Overhand chop, Throat Punch
Improved Weapon maneuvers: Giant slayer, Mounted Combat, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun
Improved Overrun: Giant Slayer, Mounted Combat,
Internalized Spell (haste): Swift Surge
Killing Blow: Draw attack Opportunist, Staredown
Killing Stroke: Lingering damage advanced combat talent
Manyshot: Ranged threat
Maneuvering Strike: Two-weapon strike
Mounted Combat: Skirmish
Multiattack: Improved two-weapon fighting, Avalanche of Blows
Paired Opportunist: Distracting Strike
Power attack: Hammer fist, Heedless Charge, Daunting strike
Ranged Maneuvers: Maneuvering strike
Two-Weapon Strike: Flay Foe
Sixth Sense: Strike team leader talent
Skirmish: Mounted combat, Dimensional agility, Vital strike, Improved Overrun
Shield Cover: Shield Parry, Block arrow, Shared Shield
Spring Attack: Dimensional Agility, Skirmish
Spellstrike: Imbue missile, Battle touch
Staredown: Daunting Strike
Staggering Strike: Killing stroke
Two-Weapon Fighting: Battle touch, Sorcerer magus bloodline,
Two-weapon fighting, Improved: Point-blank shot
Vital Strike: Flay Foe, Improved Overrun, Two-weapon strike, Improved Weapon Maneuvers, Awesome Blow, Dragon-slaying strike
Versatile Unarmed Combat: Two-weapon strike
Weapon Finesse: Improved weapon maneuvers
Weapon focus: (splash weapons) Far shot

Skills:
The following skills cause several feats to scale with them.
Acrobatics: Required for and scales up the Agility training feat
Athletics: Strength training,
Bluff: Careful Speaker,Snake Style, Daunting Strike
Craft (toxicology) Venomous strike
Endurance: Fleet, Stamina Training
Escape Artist: Improved Grapple
Perception: Sixth Sense
Perform (acting): Sleight of hand
Spellcraft: Improved Counterspell, Improved Dispelling, Dispelling Strike
Sleight of Hand: Deflect arrows, Fell shot

Class abilities:
Threat Zone: Wild Swing
Weapon Training: Defensive weapon training
Lay on Hands: Channeling Strike
Opportune Strike: Defensive Weapon Training
Grit: Challenge talent
Grenadier: Far shot
Conjuration Spell: Fell shot
Sneak attack: Precise shot, Knockout Blow, Staggering strike, Telling Blow
Surprise Attacks: Avalanche of blows
Mountain Hammer talent: Finishing Blow Vital Strike


I love the list, but I really, really wish you'd spoiler giant walls of text like that, to save people having to scroll down 3/4 page to get to the next post...


When you say numen, I think "numinous", which is probably pretty close to numen since they both appear to come from the same root.

Liberty's Edge

I think squinty eyes and Seinfeld quotes, but, you know...


I think "numen" should stay. There are so many concepts that all the good terms are taken, so I like that we have a term that is unlikely to be used for anything else.


Kirth Gersen wrote:

P.S. My problem with "numen" is that I keep hearing it as "Newman," and start thinking it's a system to track your sald dressing and spaghetti sauce intake. But all proceeds go to charity!

Either that, or I hear "pneumen," and think of breath or air.

Maybe the homonymifierousness of the word is an impediment to its adoption.

All I hear is, "Hello...Jerry."...(squints eyes) "Hello...Nnnewman."


I despised Seinfeild with a passion; never watched it; so these references are lost on me.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Do Fighters get good Intuit saves? I think I calculated Auris' wrong by one point, according to the list a couple pages back.


Dunno -- I'm leaning against not, since they already have good Fort, Ref, and Will saves. And I like the idea of the awesome fighter getting suckered by a simple illusion. Plus, they can grab the anti-illusion advanced talent at 11th level to shore up that particular weakness.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Character sheet uploaded here for review, with save adjustment made.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
I despised Seinfeild with a passion; never watched it; so these references are lost on me.

If you never watched it and these references are lost on you....how do you know it's Seinfeld? ;)

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Probably because I name checked Seinfeld two posts before yours.

Dark Archive

Kirth, did you know that "maahiset" actually refers to gnomes in Finnish? Although a literal translation to English would be something like "earthfolk" or "earthlings" (in this context: "folk/people who live under the earth").


The Egg of Coot wrote:
  • If you gain a bonded object or familiar through a feat, it still requires the investiture of personal mojo (500 x half your effective caster level squared). In other words, a CL 10th bonded object would cost a feat (Arcane Bond) and also 12,500 mojo.
  • I like this fix, it allows you to build a character you want with appropriate costs :). One thing to note is that the relative cost decreases as you level- at 2nd level it costs 1/2 your personal numen, but at 20th it costs less than 1/10th (I think this seems reasonable, at low levels an item/familiar is more significant).

    For sake of completeness when your old mojo table is updated to numen you should include a 1st level row - par being 0 numen and a maximum of 1000 numen - then we could officially take these feats at 1st level :)
    Spoiler:
    Numen I like, it reminds me of Numenor (I expect any linguistic significance (land of potential?) would not have been lost on Tolkien, (a philologist) but i may be wrong)... an image I like to be brought to mind in a fantasy game :), rather than Austen Powers :P - so my say is go for it Yeah, Baby, Yeah!


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Character sheet uploaded here for review, with save adjustment made.

    It sounded like the blank was uploaded, I now realize that I was confused; the blank sheet is old style, but your character's sheets are new style. However I didn't like the simple layout until viewing your 'sample' characters, now I have seen how less cluttered and straight forward the sheet is and think that is a very good thing. I like it a lot now. :)

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

    Sorry about the confusion James, the blank sheet is the first link on the page. Glad you've come to like it! The really handy thing about it is being able to edit the table cells. I can customize it for the characters that need more lines for skills and less for weapons, or change the weapon lines to spells. Quite handy! :)


    OK, So my next chunk of observations!

    Typo's and little errors:

    Spoiler:
    exotic quarterstaff -gives you 'two weapon feint'; where is it? :) (a feat that exists not)

    wing guided arrow - reserve feat: Pre-requisite level and text do not match up: the texts '3rd level' should be reduced to 2nd

    black lore of moli (meta-magic feat) mentions a 3d6 runebone costing 75gp (It should cost 3000gp)

    Concentration spell (metamagic) mentions the repeat spell feat - this feat does not exist

    evocation storm, and uttercold spell both require (prerequisite) energy substution - a feat which does not exist.

    bonded item- under the summon item description the text swaps from talking about an 'item' to a 'weapon' half way through :D

    the oath feat referes to the multiple oath feat... there is no such feat (perhaps mention it is possible to take multiple oath feats?)

    bard, inspire compitence mentions the Accompaniment lore - it means the Accompaniment 8th level ability

    Favoured terrain (the Feat) mentions druids and rangers in it - this may be correct, but seems confusing - I'd limit it to just rangers.

    Ranger: 'Master of all terrains' has a typo - mentions the plane of "Ai,r"


    Thoughts
    Spoiler:
    reserve feats in general should have an opening section explaning there saving throws are 10+highest level relevent spell in reserve+Cha mod

    It would seem good to have some equivalent of versatile evocation that works in a manner slimier to heighten spell - a difficult spellcraft check when preparing spells (on casting for a sorc?), allowing less flexibility than the evoker, but reinforcing your building block rules :D

    Dimentional Agility: I assume I've missed something, does teleportation end your turn? Dimention door etc. are standard actions anyway, so this feat woulden't let you do much after the teleport would it? (without the synergy)

    At 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th level a generalist wizard gets nothing (I believe they now will have 'bonus spells' at the odd levels). Could a very minor ability fit in here, so they don't seem bland? (not that they are, they would seem to have a little more zing with an ability at each level)? My thought was Expanded spell repotouir: gain 1 extra spell known of the highest two spell level you can cast (possibly restricting to schools of magic which you know the least spells)... this it would help make a generalist even more of a generalist :D, and at 18th level would simply amount to knowing an extra spell of each spell level (Alternatively this could be a 2nd level and ability that grants 1 extra spell known and repeats every 2 levels... same end effect in little chunks)

    Fell Drain: very cool metamagic feat, simply applied to ray of frost would make a "Scorching (freezing) ray" equivlant with a 1 level enervation attached... raised to 4th level will make enervation +~10d6 cold damage... I made this note orrigionally as it seemed to good, but upon thinking about it it seems reasonable, it gives you a bit more power and options for the cost of a feat! I like it :D

    (infact...) I love what you have done to meta magic- the only thing to be cautious off would be a wizard who did go about building all spells from scratch, as they would potentially be able to make quickened versions of spells very easily... by the meta magic reducing other metamagic rules.... still this may not be a problem and doesn't seem to have emerged yet


    Broken things (missing text, loop-holes etc)
    Spoiler:

    minor shapeshift (reserve feat): the vigour effect lets this feat be seemingly much better than the toughness feat for the cost of a swift action... make the tem hp equal the level of the transmutation spell (or wildshape spell equivlant)- or its a swift action to give a wizard who's taking damage fast healing 7 at 7th level. In-fact because this reserve feat is for druids also it try's not to key off of 'spell level' much - this may be the cause of other niggles...

    bard, re: doss inspiration 'beguiling'. Is a bard able to stop and restart the inspiration each round, effectivly causing all enemy's to save or be dazed every round of a fight? Perhaps the cantrip's 1 min before can be re-dazed clause should apply?

    knight of the seal 'knightly order' - has mechanical bonuses when he is defending places and secrets, but not objects (which is one of the three types of ward he can have)... perhaps a bonus to skill checks relating to the item (slight of hand to hide it?), CMD and Saves to defend the item (no sundering it, no shattering it): the bonus i feel should be substantial as shattering an item happens a lot less frequently then defending a place (defend the village!)... then again i feel +2 to bluff for keeping secrets seems weak also!


    Questions
    Spoiler:
    Could the Ability Focus Feat be on Bardic Inspirations? Or would it have to be on a specific Bardic Inspiration? (I'd go for +2dc for the inspirations as a whole, rather than a specific inspiration (as not to many are negative) but I'm aware I could be being too generous.

    Is there any other sections you want me to read through? I'm a slow reader and can't spot spelling mistakes, but quite methodical and notice inconsistencies and little glitches moderately quickly

    Few! I arranged it all!

    God bless,
    james


    TriOmegaZero wrote:
    Sorry about the confusion James, the blank sheet is the first link on the page. Glad you've come to like it! The really handy thing about it is being able to edit the table cells. I can customize it for the characters that need more lines for skills and less for weapons, or change the weapon lines to spells. Quite handy! :)

    The new blank sheet at the top does not include intuition saves :S (at the top of game doc's that is!) :D

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

    Well, that's because it was uploaded before we made that rule up. ;) Also, I use this for 3.5/PF where there isn't an Intuit save.

    If you have Word, you can split the cell to make a fourth box for it. Or just save Auris' sheet and have it already done for you. :)


    Merci beaucoup :D I intend to use it :D


    The order of the cockatrice knightly order can be joined at third level at the earliest by spending your first two fighter talents on Challenge and Knightly Order. This order adds your CHA to the DC of demoralize checks against you. Demoralize, when successful, can apply the shaken condition. Fighters get bravery which renders them immune to shaken at second level. It seems like the order is better for multiclass fighters as written.

    Perhaps there is some other benefit to bluff that the order can give instead.


    Asgetrion wrote:
    Kirth, did you know that "maahiset" actually refers to gnomes in Finnish? Although a literal translation to English would be something like "earthfolk" or "earthlings" (in this context: "folk/people who live under the earth").

    Interesting... I'd swiped it from the 2nd edition Vikings Campaign Sourcebook, but I'll for sure Google it now!


    heliopolix wrote:
    The order of the cockatrice knightly order can be joined at third level at the earliest by spending your first two fighter talents on Challenge and Knightly Order. This order adds your CHA to the DC of demoralize checks against you. Demoralize, when successful, can apply the shaken condition. Fighters get bravery which renders them immune to shaken at second level. It seems like the order is better for multiclass fighters as written. Perhaps there is some other benefit to bluff that the order can give instead.

    Great catch! That's what I get for cutting & pasting. Thanks very much -- I'll think on that one.


    houstonderek wrote:
    Probably because I name checked Seinfeld two posts before yours.

    Oh I see, I was ninja'd. Hadn't noticed.


    heliopolix wrote:
    The order of the cockatrice knightly order... adds your CHA to the DC of demoralize checks against you.

    The master document says this:

    Spoiler:

    Braggart (Ex): You are adept at extolling your own accomplishments and battle prowess. You gain Staredown as a bonus feat, and receive a +2 profane bonus on melee attack rolls made against targets demoralized in this way. Once a creature has been the target of this ability, it is immune to its effects for 24 hours.
    Steal Glory (Ex): At 11th level, a Cockatrice Knight of Quality can steal the glory from another creature’s successful strike. Whenever a creature other than you scores a critical hit, you can immediately make an attack of opportunity against the same victim.
    Moment of Triumph (Ex): At 15th level you can, as a free action, declare a moment of triumph. For 1 round, you receive a competence bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on all ability checks, attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, armor class, and skill checks. In addition, any critical threats you make are automatically confirmed. You can use this ability once per day.


    The Egg of Coot wrote:
    heliopolix wrote:
    The order of the cockatrice knightly order... adds your CHA to the DC of demoralize checks against you.

    The master document says this:** spoiler omitted **

    Just above that section.

    Spoiler:
    Skills: Add Knowledge (lore) and Perform to your list of class skills. In addition, you add your Charisma modifier to the DC on attempts to demoralize you through Bluff.


    A little late, but, yeah "mojo" is all those things, but it is usually called upon, at least in 20th century music, to lend its wielder power to: pick up chicks and win at gambling. Probably not too different than most real-life "magic" systems.


    heliopolix wrote:

    Just above that section.

    ** spoiler omitted **

    Ah! Now I see it. Just delete the offending text, would be my recommendation, since it's pretty minor in the overall scheme of things.


    One of the minor reasons I liked "mojo" is that a traditional Louisiana mojo bag can have different sets of contents ("hands") in order to accomplish different things -- this would parallel you making your magic gear gain different properties that YOU want it to have, vs. the ones already present. But I'll admit that's a stretch.


    Hi Kirth, more observations - did you catch the last lot (13 posts ago)? And are they still helpful?

    Typo's:

    Spoiler:

    spear, long exotic weapon proficiency option (c) 1d8/+3 to 1d8/x3

    similarly lance exotic 1d12x3 to 1d12/x3

    hammer, lucern is its own Heading rather than a sub-heading under polearms

    Wind stance: the potential 50% miss chance, it doesnt mention if this is only against ranged attacks like the 20% one is? - I assume so

    Questions:

    Spoiler:

    Spearfighter - a full attack 'against you' - is this a full attack all targeting you or partly targeting you?

    Combat reflexes BAB 11+, you intifear with actions that provoke AoO's - consider in light of movement how this will work... potential problems could occure. Additionally at level 16+ no action that could provoke an AoO could be performed without suffering infinate AoO... reach weapon anyone?

    Why is the 14th level choice of a two weapon fighter flay foe etc... what is the etc? Time has passed and I assume it's skewer foe and the bludgeoning one :)

    Observations:

    Spoiler:

    As you can already move attack move with the tatical movement option, spring attack seems relativly weak, only realy adding the ability to ignore attacks of opportunity in that movement, whili limiting it to 5 ft after each attack - or am i understanding it wrong... it also doesnt seem to interact with a single non-iterative attack

    Skirmish synergy with vital strike - oddly here spring attack allows you not to move after each attack (could you thus move full movement and vital strike on all attacks on one foe dancing round him?) Seems reasonable :)

    Some of the ranger talent trees only give surgestions till 14th level... but as the suggestions are so well themed at 18th level a character may have all lower options - an opening paragraph about agree on a feat with the gm/take any combat feat would be good (there is almos this there already)... but this could all be arranged with a Gm :D

    Improved combat reflexes - are my Itritative AoO limited by my usual Itritritive attacks? eg at 6th level I can make 2... or are they simply limited by my AoO avaliable (in which case at 16th level I could make 100, which makes this a silly option, but should be clarified a little)

    Combat reflexes, 16th level, reach weapon=provoke AoO by strping through reach, responce=5ft stepback, repeat= not engagable without reach?

    Can you take multiple immidiate actions between turns - or is it just one? [i assume one :)]

    Lunge: do you still threaten squares you usually threaten when using lunge?


    Other Thought (ALL comments welcome!):

    Battle fatigue - our GM says this is partly to tricky to keep track of (which monster is at -1)?, Which monster is at -3? etc... I like the idea of the save or be dazed aspect of it, but wondered if anyone had any ideas for a less "GM incentive" version? EG penalties affect players, save or Bad effect (Daze, stun, etc)... maybe a moral bonus for the party (ie not something the GM has to keep track of) Thoughts? <obviously for my campaign not Kirthfinder general!>

    Stat Boosting feats

    Spoiler:

    These feats give enhancement bonuses to stats yes? So they do not stack with the magic items of stat boosting (Unless i'm wrong) - In which case there is no problem at all in letting the caster feats scale - a caster wanting to bump his DC's will be crafting himself a jeweled headband of +6 Stat ass soon as his numen allows; giving him the option of replacing this item with three feats only available at 5th, 10th and 15th level seems very week....

    Additionally given the lovely way you have done saves or bonuses for classes etc. and the wonderfulness of BAB scaling feats I really don't think you should be worried about scaling power of a feat to DC's... (which gives a bit now a bit later etc... Everyone else IS awesome! that's the idea, not penalizing caster (too much ;P)

    Criticals and relative weapon powers

    Spoiler:

    The 'issue' with deadly critical is the same as for broadsword - increasing crit multipliers on a high range weapon is much much better than a low crit range weapon: in effect looking at the "critical dots" (a dot over each number where a weapon threatens x2 damage, two over x3 etc) we can see how this break's weapons down into a sliding scale of goodness for criticals - and it is really extreme with some weapons at starting being as good as others are with all awesome feats applied
    e.g
    From the view of "free feats" an exotically used broadsword is an improved crit range & deadly critical Heavy mace :) This is a bad example, but a 'maximised' crit dwarven war axe (a reasonable character choice) will be doing half as many "dots" (and thus crit damage and crit strike feats) as the same on a rapier!

    Dots Weapon Feats
    1 1d8/x2
    2 1d8/x2 Improved Critical
    4 1d8/x2 Improved Critical, deadly critical

    2 1d8/x3
    4 1d8/x3 Improved Critical
    6 1d8/x3 Improved Critical, deadly critical

    2 1d8/19-20
    4 1d8/19-20 Improved Critical
    8 1d8/19-20 Improved Critical, deadly critical

    3 1d8/x4
    6 1d8/x4 Improved Critical
    8 1d8/x4 Improved Critical, deadly critical

    3 1d8/18-20
    6 1d8/18-20 Improved Critical
    12 1d8/18-20 Improved Critical, deadly critical

    4 1d8/19-20 x3
    8 1d8/19-20 x3 Improved Critical
    12 1d8/19-20 x3 Improved Critical, deadly critical

    Perhaps a more linier way of improving criticals could be found? Allowing weapons to have a certain number of dots spread out... (eg a 3 dot weapon could be x4, 18-20 x2 or 19x2 20x3... then allowing more control over boosting the bonuses). Just thoughts, I'm happy(ish) with the extreme discrepancy, but might not be is playing with the critical focused keen broadsword wielding fighter (15 dots!) I guess it can make some weapons non-choices, or poor choices.


    God Bless,
    James

    PS I still think there is a case for spell penetration scaling with Spellcraft (and spell focus for that matter) without breaking anything.

    We have a ranger wanting to play a spear fighter, we've got a suggested ranger Combat style for polearms, thoughts would be really welcome:

    Spoiler:

    2nd Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Polearm), Weapon Focus (Polearm), Combat Reflexes, Polearm Parry
    6th Shorten Grip, Lunge, Whirlwind Strike
    10th Spear Fighter, Improved Combat Reflexes,
    14th Skewer Foe, Steadfast Pike

    Thanks again, and God bless
    james


    JamesHarrison wrote:
    Hi Kirth, more observations - did you catch the last lot (13 posts ago)? And are they still helpful?

    I saw them, but haven't gotten to them -- I was trying to finish the metamagic and SOL spell rules. Which I accomplished, along with filing my taxes. The next 12 days are for editorial stuff, and then I'll hopefully still be done by April 1.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

    So, nonlethal CdGs came up in game yesterday. How do you handle them, Kirth?


    OK, so far Alice and Andostre are pro-"numen."
    Houstonderek and Can'tFindthePath are anti-"Numen," apparently because of something that has to do with Seinfeld.
    TOZ seems OK either way.
    Comrade Anklebiter added connotations, but didn't actually submit a clear vote.

    Motion is hung up. If no more votes come in, I'll make a decision in 10 days or so.


    Save-or-Lose Spells:

  • Those applying a non-stacking penalty are modeled on ray of enfeeblement. Penalty is 1d6 +1/2 levels (max +5) for a single target for a 1st level spell; multiple targets as a 2nd level spell; max +10 (single) at 3rd; max +10 (multiple) at 4th; 1d6 +1/level (max +15, single target) at 5th; max +15 (multiple targets) at 6th;, max +20 (single target) at 7th; max +20 (multiple targets) at 8th.
    Dex 1 = slowed; Wis 1 = confused; Cha 1 = effectively charmed.

  • For attribute damage, assume a set of six 1st-level spells (one per attribute). Range touch, damage 1d4 (save for half); you can Heighten them for +1d4 per level, but automatic heightening from other metamagic does not apply. Slay living is therefore damage attribute (Con; 1st level) + Heighten Spell (+3d4; +3 levels) + Empower Spell (x1.5; +1 level) = 5th level touch spell dealing 4d4 x 1.5 (6d4 for convenience) Con damage, save for half.

  • For attribute drain, add +1 spell level per 1d4 damage converted to drain.


  • Kirth Gersen wrote:

    OK, so far Alice and Andostre are pro-"numen."

    Houstonderek and Can'tFindthePath are anti-"Numen," apparently because of something that has to do with Seinfeld.
    TOZ seems OK either way.
    Comrade Anklebiter added connotations, but didn't actually submit a clear vote.

    Motion is hung up. If no more votes come in, I'll make a decision in 10 days or so.

    Sorry Kirth, I wasn't really casting a vote....just thought it was funny. So, for the record, I don't much like "numen". Not because of obscure Seinfeld references, but rather because it sounds a bit odd, and I have no previous knowledge or connection to the word. I don't really have a good suggestion, although if choosing between the two; I'd go with "mojo".

    Cheers

    Liberty's Edge

    It doesn't matter in the overall scheme of things to me; a rose by any other name...

    I never really watched Seinfeld either, mind you. I was a bit young when it played a lot on TV. I'm not American, either, so my pronunciation of the word is probably different: nu as in 'noose' rather than new as in 'news' (although I believe some Americans pronounce 'news' with a 'noo' sound as well... hm.)

    Kirth, if you'd like an extra pair of eyes on proofreading the final edition before the April 1 "due date", I'd love to help out.


    Alice Margatroid wrote:
    Kirth, if you'd like an extra pair of eyes on proofreading the final edition before the April 1 "due date", I'd love to help out.

    I'd sure appreciate any help you'd like to offer! If you let me know your email address I'll be happy send what I've got.

    Everybody Else: If you're genuinely going to proofread and offer comments within a week or so (to give me time to address your comments), let me know your email addy and make the promise. I don't have the time or the inclination to send out docs to people who may or may not do so, however, so if there's even a 1% chance you won't follow through, please spare me the effort!


    I prefer numen; it just sounds more like a quantifiable out-of-character measurement, like base attack bonus or fortitude save. Mojo is more in-character in my opinion - something I can see a sorcerer using to describe his magic.

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