Winter Patron for witches


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

From what I can gather, the witch patrons are functionally similar to a cleric's domain or a sorcerer's bloodline, in that it usually grants one extra spell per spell level. However, bloodlines and patrons lack one particular functionality that domain spells have -- a domain specifically lists a spell level for each granted spell, thus having the innate ability to reassign the spell levels as necessary. (Sometimes a domain spell is given as a different spell level than the normal spell would be).

In particular, the Winter patron for witches (Ultimate Magic, pg83) states that the witch gains Ice Storm at 6th level. The problem here is that at 6th level, you can only cast up to 3rd level spells; whereas Ice Storm is a 4th level spell. So if you base this purely on the RAW, a 6th level witch with the winter patron now has a spell in her familiar that she can't actually cast yet; at least not until level 7. That doesn't sit well with me.

Was the intent to reassign the spell level to 3rd level for winter patron witches? Or was this just a rather interesting oversight in development? (Or was there an errata that I'm presently blind to?)

Personally, if it were one of my players, I'd probably houserule that the patron reassigned the spell level; similar to how a domain can. But what's everyone else's thoughts on the matter?


Reassigned. I believe that you get them in the highest spell level you can cast.

Sovereign Court

I call your attention to control weather, which the witch patron gives at 14th level. Control weather is a 7th level witch spell.
You gain nothing from this. The winter patron needs to be rewritten entirely.

Dark Archive

Enaris wrote:
I call your attention to control weather, which the witch patron gives at 14th level. Control weather is a 7th level witch spell.

There's lots of those in Ultimate Magic. The APG patrons grant spells that the Witch list doesn't contain, but the UM patrons grant a few that are already on the Witch list, such as pain strike (Vengeance), twilight knife (Occult) and threefold aspect (Time).

Hard to say whether that was an oversight or a deliberate design decision, but, after the fact, it's likely to be declared 'working as intended.'

Quote:
You gain nothing from this. The winter patron needs to be rewritten entirely.

You gain a spell for free, in your familiar, that you didn't have to find and 'scribe.'

It's not the same as the APG patrons, that give you a new spell for your list that you wouldn't otherwise gain, but it's still better than nothing.

It's kind of like those Cleric Domains that give you a bunch of Domain spells you already knew anyway, such as Chaos, Evil, Good and Law. You may not be getting anything shiny and new, unlike someone who took Fire or Trickery, but it's not nothing.

Sovereign Court

There is a significant difference between a witch patron and a cleric domain. A cleric not only gets the spell from their domain, but also adds one of their domain spells to the number of spells they can cast per day (not to mention they also get domain powers). A witch just adds it to their list. In my opinion a patron should give a witch a spell they can't normally access.

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