Given the ability of familiars to deliver touch spells, it seems that the spell calcific touch (which can be delivered once per round, lasting one round per caster level) should qualify for a familiar to use.
Given the text below, would it be feasible to have a familiar delivering this spell every round, while the caster remains free to take other actions?
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or
higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the
master and the familiar are in contact at the time the
master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar
as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch
spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master
casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the
touch spell dissipates.
Calcific Touch
School transmutation [earth]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature or creatures touched (up to one per level)
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
Your touch progressively transmutes the substance of
creatures you touch into stone. Once per round, you may
deliver a touch attack that inflicts 1d4 points of Dexterity
damage and slows the target (as the spell) for 1 round. A
successful Fortitude save negates the slow effect but not the
ability damage. A target reduced to 0 Dexterity is petrified
permanently. Break enchantment, restoration, or stone to flesh
can reverse the effects of calcific touch.
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Seems like a yes, but note the part about casting another spell causing the touch spell to dissipate. So the caster could use wands/potions/etc. while the familiar touched over and over if they wanted to. This should be true for any touch spell with multiple attacks over multiple rounds.
However, familiars are usually tiny so they have to enter the opponent's space (and provoke AoO) to deliver the spell, and they are kinda fragile. It wouldn't be too hard for many melee types to pulp a familiar that was trying this.
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However, familiars are usually tiny so they have to enter the opponent's space (and provoke AoO) to deliver the spell, and they are kinda fragile. It wouldn't be too hard for many melee types to pulp a familiar that was trying this.
One option to deal with that (a guy who used to play PFS locally did this a lot) is to have a monkey familiar with a great Acrobatics modifier. He can tumble in and out of threatened areas without provoking.
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[One option to deal with that (a guy who used to play PFS locally did this a lot) is to have a monkey familiar with a great Acrobatics modifier. He can tumble in and out of threatened areas without provoking.
Oh there are definitely ways to deal with the problems, if you want to. You just can't ignore that there can be problems.
I had an arcane trickster who had a faerie dragon familiar, so it was able to employ both Acrobatics and greater invisibility if desired to get places.
I'm thinking that if there was a monkey zotting me for 1d4 dex each round, I might just spare an iterative attack to hack apart that monkey.
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Or get a Pig familiar, they are adorable and Small size!However, familiars are usually tiny so they have to enter the opponent's space (and provoke AoO) to deliver the spell, and they are kinda fragile. It wouldn't be too hard for many melee types to pulp a familiar that was trying this.One option to deal with that (a guy who used to play PFS locally did this a lot) is to have a monkey familiar with a great Acrobatics modifier. He can tumble in and out of threatened areas without provoking.
I do not think that throwing bacon at something and hoping that does not get attacked is a good idea. :P
A further question - assuming I am willing to risk my familiar in combat, and that it is under the effects of a spell like elemental touch,
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/elemental-touch
and further that the familiar is under the effects of a Haste spell, could it deliver two touch attacks per round?
Elemental touch is a better example of what I am wondering because, with a target of "you", it can be cast on a familiar with as per the Share Spells familiar feature.
The problem with letting your familiar touch things as a spell and then doing something else is that the touch spell ends when you cast another spell, so if you have chill touch on your familiar and you cast fireball, the familiars chill touch goes poof.
What you could do though is cast chill touch, let your familiar attack, next round delay until after your familiar acts, let him attack again, and then cast a spell.
and further that the familiar is under the effects of a Haste spell, could it deliver two touch attacks per round?
By raw yes. Attacking with a spell is not a standard action and can be used as an attack of opportunity, the only kind of action it can be is an attack. One of the devs didn't like Produce flame doing so though, but that was a thrown spell, not an attack.
how about an air elemental with a high dex and flyby attack. Plus if you have a lot of ranks in acrobatics your familiar can use those to avoid AOO. My AT will be using this strategy.
You can always take the Evolved Familiar feat to give your familiar reach with one attack, allowing it to attack from adjacent squares instead of investing in Acrobatics or incurring painful AoO. Of course, this requires you to not dumpstat Cha (or Int if you're an arcane sorc, or Cha and Int if you're a familiar-toting druid, etc).
A low-level option to utilize your familiar in combat is the Burning Gaze spell. It's not a great spell, but you can have them use it while you cast other spells. Put some KISS makeup on the little guy, cast Burning Gaze via its share spells ability, then let it sit on your shoulder making devil horns at opponents and lighting them up while you go about your business.
You can always take the Evolved Familiar feat to give your familiar reach with one attack, allowing it to attack from adjacent squares instead of investing in Acrobatics or incurring painful AoO. Of course, this requires you to not dumpstat Cha (or Int if you're an arcane sorc, or Cha and Int if you're a familiar-toting druid, etc).
A low-level option to utilize your familiar in combat is the Burning Gaze spell. It's not a great spell, but you can have them use it while you cast other spells. Put some KISS makeup on the little guy, cast Burning Gaze via its share spells ability, then let it sit on your shoulder making devil horns at opponents and lighting them up while you go about your business.
Thats brilliant.
That goes for any spell with a duration that gives attacks per round, which doesn´t need to ´Hold the Charge´.
Plenty of Familiars DO have normal Reach... Pseudodragons, for example. Goats and Pigs as well.
My favorite spell for this is Dimension Door... Often quite a surprise,
and very useful by not forcing you to go where it´s needed, or end your position where the targets are dropped off.
A Familiar like a Pseudodragon will pretty much always have equal or faster movement than you yourself, and can fly all the time without worrying about it (or worrying about it getting dispelled or AMFs).
That goes for any spell with a duration that gives attacks per round, which doesn´t need to ´Hold the Charge´.
Well, since the familiar's share spells ability only works with spells that have Target: You, there is definitely a limited list of sharable offensive spells you can give the familiar to direct. Designating the familiar to deliver a touch spell is a different ability, which doesn't allow you to cast any spells at all without ending the effect. Sharable offensive spells work a lot better because the caster can remain effective while the familiar goes on offense, plus they keep the familiar out of melee range altogether.
That goes for any spell with a duration that gives attacks per round, which doesn´t need to ´Hold the Charge´.
Well, since the familiar's share spells ability only works with spells that have Target: You,
there is definitely a limited list of sharable offensive spells you can give the familiar to direct.
I guess, but if the spell ISN`T a `You` spell but can be cast on any ally, the Familiar also falls into that category. So between normal spells castable on anybody (¨A wizard may cast spells on his familiar [regardless of] the familiar's [creature] type¨), You spells, and Holding the Touch, you`re pretty good.
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and further that the familiar is under the effects of a Haste spell, could it deliver two touch attacks per round?By raw yes. Attacking with a spell is not a standard action and can be used as an attack of opportunity, the only kind of action it can be is an attack. One of the devs didn't like Produce flame doing so though, but that was a thrown spell, not an attack.
IIRC, what the developer said is that iterative attacks were the sole province of weapons and that only spells which acted like real weapons (like Flameblade for example) could benefit from iterative attacks. Which mean IMO that you can attack only once on your turn with any other attack from a spell.
I still find it both very hazy and unfair for the casters who would specialize in this form of combat.
and further that the familiar is under the effects of a Haste spell, could it deliver two touch attacks per round?By raw yes. Attacking with a spell is not a standard action and can be used as an attack of opportunity, the only kind of action it can be is an attack. One of the devs didn't like Produce flame doing so though, but that was a thrown spell, not an attack.IIRC, what the developer said is that iterative attacks were the sole province of weapons and that only spells which acted like real weapons (like Flameblade for example) could benefit from iterative attacks. Which mean IMO that you can attack only once on your turn with any other attack from a spell.
I still find it both very hazy and unfair for the casters who would specialize in this form of combat.
As I understand it a touch attack functions as a natural weapon, thus you can usually only make one attack, but haste or a similar ability could enhance this. Though still just one free attack in the round you cast a spell. You also have the option to make an off-hand touch attack at a -5 penalty in combination with weapon attacks, or at no penalty if you combine it with natural attacks.
I guess, but if the spell ISN`T a `You` spell but can be cast on any ally, the Familiar also falls into that category. So between normal spells castable on anybody (¨A wizard may cast spells on his familiar [regardless of] the familiar's [creature] type¨), You spells, and Holding the Touch, you`re pretty good.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say those are the only useful spells you can put on a familiar. You're definitely spot-on with showing how useful a familiar can be when you invest feats and buffs into it. :) I was just trying to make the point that share spells can take advantage of a relatively small pool of spells that I think of as "shared offense" spells. This type of spell, like burning gaze, is one that lets a familiar perform some blaster/battlefield control function while the caster takes other actions.
The reason I like finding these spells and putting them to good use is because this is how I categorize and compare buff, touch and shared offense spells interacting with a familiar:
buff - Okay, there are tons of spells that can buff your familiar. Most don't need to use the familiar's share spells ability because they're designed, well, to buff other targets to begin with. The mileage you get out of a lot of buff spells depends on the target... buffing a melee/ranged physical damage build PC is going to be more effective than buffing your familiar in many situations.
touch attack - Your familiar can really shine with some of these if you've put the build resources into getting an improved familiar. They do add some melee risk to the familiar, and can tie up your spellcasting if the familiar can't go discharge the spell immediately.
shared offense - These let your familiar blast or battlefield control, preferably at range, while you do other actions. Doesn't slow the caster down, adds use to a familiar without wasting feats or needing multiple buff spells, and generally keeps it out of melee. Pretty much a "fire-and-forget" spell... they are usually a target:you spell which is why I put the focus on it in my previous commentary. (Now if only strangling hair had a target of you.)
IIRC, what the developer said is that iterative attacks were the sole province of weapons and that only spells which acted like real weapons (like Flameblade for example) could benefit from iterative attacks. Which mean IMO that you can attack only once on your turn with any other attack from a spell.
I still find it both very hazy and unfair for the casters who would specialize in this form of combat.
-Which can get really wonky, because a touch attack isn't the only way you can attack with a loaded spell. I could have a Sorcerer monk with chill touch on my right hand and flurry of blows 5 times with it as a normal attack (against normal ac, dealing monk damage with each hit)
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IIRC, what the developer said is that iterative attacks were the sole province of weapons and that only spells which acted like real weapons (like Flameblade for example) could benefit from iterative attacks. Which mean IMO that you can attack only once on your turn with any other attack from a spell.I still find it both very hazy and unfair for the casters who would specialize in this form of combat.
-Which can get really wonky, because a touch attack isn't the only way you can attack with a loaded spell. I could have a Sorcerer monk with chill touch on my right hand and flurry of blows 5 times with it as a normal attack (against normal ac, dealing monk damage with each hit)
It is why I find it quite hazy. Because IIRC, in such a case, only one of your attacks from the FoB would carry the Chill Touch effect. And it is not clear whether you would still be considered holding the charge (and thus threatening) if you discharged it successfully with your attack but still had uses left.
I was hoping for some clarification in Ultimate Combat concerning all the possible forms of attack you can use in one round (ie, armed attacks with one or several weapons, natural attacks, touch attacks from spells and abilities, normal attacks while holding a charge and so on) and how they interact. Maybe I will have to open a specific thread for FAQ.
I guess one thing you could do is:
Cast Calcific touch on yourself, and then cast it designating the familiar as the toucher... then once/round you could touch someone and once/round familiar could touch someone.. 2d4 dex with no save every turn = fun times, and then you dont have to worry about not being able to cast while its off touching, just do touching yourself
... but note the part about casting another spell causing the touch spell to dissipate....
This was already covered.
However, familiars are usually tiny so they have to enter the opponent's space (and provoke AoO) to deliver the spell, and they are kinda fragile. It wouldn't be too hard for many melee types to pulp a familiar that was trying this.One option to deal with that (a guy who used to play PFS locally did this a lot) is to have a monkey familiar with a great Acrobatics modifier. He can tumble in and out of threatened areas without provoking.
Did they change the rules since then? I can't find a tumble as part of the Acrobatics skill. I did find that you can move through the enemy's square, but that doesn't say you can move while attacking and keep going...
As a Tiny creature, the monkey can use a move action to move into the enemy's square without provoking an attack of opportunity by using Acrobatics. Then the monkey can attack with calcific touch as a standard action. Next turn, if it isn't paste, the monkey can attack with calcific touch again then use Acrobatics to move away without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Basically, with sufficient Acrobatics skill, the strategy works to prevent attacks of opportunity but does not protect the familiar from regular actions.
Polymorph Familiar
At level 7 (when Calcific Touch is available) you can make it a large animal... like a tiger.
Then cast Calcific touch and place your bets.
Polymorph familiar cannot change your familiar to a Large size regardless of caster level.
This spell functions as beast shape i, except it grants your familiar the form of any Small animal. Your familiar retains all of its special abilities and continues to grant you the special ability associated with its normal shape (such as a bat familiar's bonus on Fly checks).
At caster level 7th, this spell functions as beast shape II. At caster level 9th, it functions as beast shape III. At caster level 11th, it functions as beast shape IV.
emphasis mine.
It functions as beast shape II, full stop.