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Multiclass archetypes, part II


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

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This is a continuation of the previous thread MULTICLASS ARCHETYPES, which was becoming too long. So we have begun a second thread, and will continue to do so as long as our work continues and each thread becomes too long

This is a collaborative development thread for the Multiclass ARchetypes concept presented in the previous thread. Anyone is welcome to make suggestions, give feedback, and try our playtests. Many of the MCAs (Multiclass Archetypes) are under reconstruction to be more in line with our most recent adjusted guidelines for creating them.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled developmental thread.

This is the most current paytest document for any one wishing to see what we are doing, or to actually playtest them.

Core and Base Multiclass Archetypes Playtest Document

For additional or previous documents go HERE, and go to the Multiclass Archetypes folder.


This is kind of a joke suggestion, but I was watching a Disney movie the other day and thought to myself that you could make a multiclass archetype for a Druid/Bard and call it the "Disney Princess" archetype. =D


submit2me wrote:
This is kind of a joke suggestion, but I was watching a Disney movie the other day and thought to myself that you could make a multiclass archetype for a Druid/Bard and call it the "Disney Princess" archetype. =D

Animal Speaker is a Bard Archetype from Ultimate Magic that fits that. :3


Ion Raven wrote:
Animal Speaker is a Bard Archetype from Ultimate Magic that fits that. :3

Oh, wow. You're right! That would make an awesomely ridiculous NPC.


Hi, I'm back!
The Wild Herbalist's good! I guess it's better than my Beastbrewer Alchemist... I'll try it with a character on my next game!


@bardess - welcome back!
@Elghinn - Thanks for your concern.
(Little cub given discharge from hospital. Suffered apnea (stopped breathing for 20-30 seconds while sleeping) Cause unknown. Refferred to sleep specialists. All a bit upsetting, good that no new incidents have occurred for past two nights, bad that we don't know why it happened in the first place and if it will recur. :( )

Great work on MCA mockup. Just trying to find my way around the other documents you sent me. ;p The Divine Mage does look a bit bland as presented.

Here's the seersworn with changes implemented in bold.

Seersworn:

Primary Class: Witch.
Secondary Class: Oracle.
Hit Dice: d6.
Saves: P/P/G
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The seersworn may select three oracle skills to her class skills in addition to her normal witch class skills. The seersworn gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Seersworns are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a seersworn’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Spellcasting: A seerworn casts spells as a witch and draws her spells from the witch spell list. Her caster level is equal to her seersworn level. The seersworn gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score.

Cantrips: As witch.

Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that she chooses a hex as shown on Table: seersworn. Alternatively, the seersworn may opt to choose a revelation from her oracle mystery in the place of a hex.

Major Hex: As witch.

Grand Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except the seersworn selects a grand hex at 20th level.

Modified Hex: Seersworn's Cry (Su): When the seersworn uses the cackle hex, it also extends the duration of any revelation with a duration expressed in rounds affecting a creature within 30 feet.

Seersworn's Blight: At 1st level the seersworn gains the spell Oracle's Burden, and may cast it as if she had the feat Spellhex : You can learn Oracle's Burden as a hex, and can use that hex three times per day. This is a spell-like ability. You use your seersworn level as your caster level for the spell hex. The spell hex uses your hex DC instead of its original spell DC. If the target succeeds at a saving throw, it cannot be affected by the spell hex for 24 hours, even if it is in the area of the spell hex.

New Major Hex: Greater Seersworn's Blight : As Seersworn's Blight, but affects one extra victim per three seersworn levels + int modifier at a range of 30 feet.

New Grand Hex: Seersworn's Malevolence: As Seersworn's Blight, but affects all within earshot.

Mystery: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that the seersworn adds her mystery spells to her spell list at the listed levels, just as she does her Patron spells. A seersworn's mystery should be compatible with her patron - for example Bones/Plague, Battle/Strength, Nature/Animals.

Oracle’s Curse (Ex) As Oracle.

Patron Spells. As Witch.

Witch’s Familiar: The seersworn's familiar is her direct connection to the powers who provide her more otherworldly visions and abilities, and is able to give her direct advice and counsel. This functions exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name with the following additions. *The familiar gains an intelligence score of 8 and learns one language that only the seersworn can understand. At 6th level, and every 6 levels past that, the familiar gains a point of Intelligence and learns another language with which to communicate with the Seersworn's allies.
*If the familiar is unconscious, confused, or slain otherwise incapacitated, the seersworn loses her access to revelations and to her mystery spells until it is restored or replaced. This new familiar begins with the same intelligence as its' predecessor.
*The seersworn must make a concentration check to cast mystery spells if the familiar is more than 5' away from her.

New Mystery: The following Seersworn Mystery may be chosen by a seersworn :

Mystery:
Seersworn
Deities: Any
Class Skills: A seersworn with the seersworn mystery adds Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy and Sense motive to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: eagle eye(2nd), seeming (4th), invisibility purge (6th), sending (8th), wandering star motes (10th), owl's wisdom, mass (12th), sequester (14th), scintillating pattern(16th), euphoric tranquility (18th), wall of suppression(20th)
Revelations: A seersworn with the seersworn mystery may choose from the following revelations.
Aura of Insight (Su): As a standard action, the seersworn can give a small amount of her insight to her allies. The aura affects one ally plus one additional ally for every three seersworn levels, who must all be within 30 feet of her. The seersworn may confer this bonus to herself in the place of one ally. Affected allies gain a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls, AC, and skill checks for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect. The seersworn may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Wis modifier.

Trance of Clarity (Su): This trance grants the seersworn and her familiar a +4 bonus on all saving throws made against mind-affecting effects and immunity to confusion. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. If the familiar fails a saving throw against a mind-affecting effect during this period, it loses its immunity to confusion and is immediately confused for one round. While the familiar is confused, the seersworn may not use her revelations or mystery Spells. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wis modifier.

Second Sight (Ex): The seersworn gains a racial bonus on Perception checks equal to 1/2 her seersworn level (minimum +1). In addition, if she can act during a surprise round, she receives a +2 racial bonus on her Initiative check.

Precognitive Trance (Su): This trance can be entered as a free action. The trance lasts for as many rounds per day as the seersworn's level. These rounds do not have to be consecutive. The seersworn's insight into the future grants her an advantage in combat. At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, she gains a +1 insight bonus on initiative checks.

Spirit Trance (Su): As a standard action, the seersworn can ask one question of a dead creature as if using speak with dead. The dead creature she questions does not gain a Will saving throw if it's alignment is different to the seersworn's. She can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to her seersworn level.

Table: Seersworn
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 01st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Cantrips, hex, mystery, oracle’s curse, 3 1 — — — — — — — — patron spells, seersworn's blight, revelation, witch’s familiar
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Hex 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Hex 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Hex 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Hex 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Hex, major hex 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Hex 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Hex, grand hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Wizard/Summoner (or Summoner/Wizard). Got a great idea for it, not gonna do it yet because we have work to do.

But I am -calling- it. It has been called. Dibs. Tossed in my bag. No touchy. Called.

Anyway, Swordmage. Some of the changes Elghinn made last were, uh... yeah. (Seriously, boosting up Casting Reflexes? It's ALREADY nutty with just -one- touch spell AoO per turn, I mean really. Why make it better?)

Agreed with some of Flak's ideas, and took some in. Combat Readiness, though, I decided not to make scale-able. I think it's fine as is, really, and giving it earlier than ninth might be a bit much- we're already fooling with the initiative phase just by having it. Let's not push that line any further. (Plus, I'd say it's fairly darn balanced and carries well to high levels- Haste, Resist Energy, etc., are spells that work anytime, anywhere, any level. Excluding anti-magic fields.)

Swordmage 2: Electric Boogaloo:

Swordmage

-Sidenote: Swordmage is merely the most common name. Axemage, Clubmage, even Glaivemage all work equally well.

Primary: Sorcerer
Secondary: Fighter
HD: D8
Saves: Good Fort, Good Will
Skills: 2+Int
Bonus Skills: Sorcerer+Bloodline skill. Select three additional fighter skills.

Weapons: Simple. Selectic one Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Swordmages are proficient with Light armor, but not shields.

Level: Special:
1 - , Eschew Materials, Bonded Focus
2 -
3 - Bloodline Spell, Weapon Focus
4 -
5 - Bloodline Spell, Light Armor
6 -
7 - Bloodline Manifestation, Bloodline Spell
8 -
9 - Bloodline Spell, Combat Readiness
10 -
11 - Bloodline Spell
12 -
13 - Bloodline Manifestation II, Bloodline Spell
14 -
15 - Bloodline Spell, Casting Reflexes
16 -
17 - Bloodline Spell
18 -
19 - Bloodline Manifestation III, Bloodline Spell
20 - Arcane Assault

Limited Cantrips: At first level, the Swordmage learns the cantrips Detect Magic, Mending, and Light, and may use them at will. He learns no other cantrips as he grows in level. This ability replaces Cantrips.

Limited Spellcasting: 1 less spell slot per level per day, and one less spell known. - Needs new name, maybe? I guess limited works. With additional abilities and such being tossed on, need a bigger balancer. This basically works like Diminished Spellcasting but hits on two levels.

Bonded Focus: Swordmages form a powerful bond with their weapon in place of their first level bloodline power, and begin play with one of their choice at no cost. The weapon is always of masterwork quality, but is not made of any special material. If a swordmage attempts to cast a spell without her bonded weapon in hand, she must make a concentration check (DC 20 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. A bonded weapon can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the swordmage knows and is capable of casting, including bloodline spells. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the swordmage, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the swordmage’s level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities.
The weapon maintains an Aura detectable by Detect Magic and similiar spells, at a strength determined by the Swordmage's caster level.
A number of times per day equal to 3+Charisma modifier, the Swordmage may charge their weapon with a touch spell of up to 1/3rd their level (Minimum 1st). This uses the casting time of the spell itself, but no spell requiring more than a full round action can be used to 'charge' the weapon.
The weapon holds the charge until the swordmage wills it otherwise, as a standard action; a single attack can be made as part of this action. At the time of discharge, the swordmage can choose to release the spell energy with the same effect as the spell, or deal 1d6 points of force damage for every two spell levels of the spell.

For example, a 12th level swordmage that “charges” her weapon with a shocking grasp spell and then strikes an opponent deals normal weapon damage plus 5d6 points of electricity damage. If the swordmage casts animate dead into the weapon, she can either discharge that spell energy with the original effect against a corpse, or deal 2d6 damage against a living creature. A touch spell can only be stored in this matter indefinitely, but only one such spell may be stored at a time.

A swordmage can also add additional magic abilities to her bonded weapon as if she has the required item creation feats and if she meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a swordmage with a bonded longsword must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the longsword (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Chapter 5 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook). The magic properties of a bonded weapon, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the swordmage who owns it. If a bonded weapon’s owner dies, or the item is replaced, the sword reverts to being an ordinary masterwork weapon of the appropriate type.

If a bonded weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the swordmage rests to regain her spells. If the weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per swordmage level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item.

A swordmage can designate an existing magic weapon as her bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded weapon.

This ability replaces the first bloodline power.

Weapon Focus: The Swordmage gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 3rd level.

Light Armor (Ex): At 5th level, a swordmage may select to cast arcane and bloodline spells without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance only if she is wearing light or no armor. A swordmage wearing medium armor, heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 5th level.

Bloodline Manifestation: The Swordmage gains a bloodline power that he could have gained at first or third level. Alternatively, he may select a feat from his Bloodline Feat list.

This replaces the Bloodline feat normally gained at 7th level.

Combat Readiness: At ninth level, whenever the Swordmage rolls for initiative, they may cast a single spell of up to 3rd level as a free action. This spell must only target the swordmage, and they must have any required focus or expensive material components in hand.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 9th level.

Bloodline Manifestation II: The Swordmage gains an additional bloodline power that he could have gained at first, third, or ninth level. Alternatively, he may select a feat from his Bloodline Feat list.

This replaces the Bloodline feat normally gained at 13th level.

Casting Reflexes: At fifteenth level, the Swordmage has honed his reflexes and speed of casting far beyond the ordinary sorcerer. Any time the Swordmage would make an attack of opportunity, they may elect to cast a single touch range spell upon the target instead. They must have one hand free to cast. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to 3+charisma modifier.

Even if the swordmage has the combat reflexes feat, they may only cast one spell in this way each round.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 15th level.

Bloodline Manifestation III: The Swordmage gains an additional bloodline power that he could have gained at first, third, ninth, or fifteenth level. Alternatively, he may select a feat from his Bloodline Feat list.

This replaces the Bloodline feat normally gained at 19th level.

Furious Spellcasting: As a full-round action three times per day at twentieth level, the swordmage may make a full attack action and cast a single spell of their choice.

This replaces the bloodline power normally gained at twentieth level.

Also, Flak, I'm against giving them -more- bonus feats, even stuff like Arcane Strike. They shouldn't get -every- feat that could buff them up further, and it's already a strong MCA.

Also, yes, I know, needs the in-line wording still. I'm basically just focusing on balance and intent of the rules 'fore we do the 'final edit' as it were.

Any more thoughts 'fore we touch this up? I think we're good to go with it- abilities seem generally well received.


@OSW: Glad to hear he's doing OK.

Here's what we're working on, as far as I can see.

Seersworn - OSW just posted

Temple Dancer - still in the works

Aegis Lancer - back burner until later (I'll be picking this up)

Terrain Patriarch - Done

Land Master - Done

Divine Agent - Done

Esoteric Chemist - In the works

Eldritch Fletcher - In the works

Swordmage - just posted

Bolds are done, blue will reemerge at some other date.

That leaves Seersworn, Temple dancer, E.C., E.F. and swordmage. Let's finish these, then we can open up on the rest of the CORE redos.

Again, here's the Core list. Lay claim to what ever tickles your fancy.

CORE MCA Redos:

Spirit Warrior (Bbn/Drd) = Done
Holy Rager (Bbn/Pal) = Done
Spellrager (Bbn/Sor) = Elghinn (hope to post in the next couple days)

Songfilch (Brd/Rog) = Done
Warchanter (Bbn/Brd) = Done

Battle Adept (Clr/Ftr) = Done
Divine Agent (Rog/Clr) = Done
Divine Exemplar (Clr/Pal) = Done
Forest Partriarch (Clr/Rgr) = Done

Land Master (Drd/Rgr) = Done
Spellarbor (Drd/Sor) = Elghinn

Divine Blade (Ftr/Clr) = cartmanbeck
Silent Warrior (Ftr/Rog) = cartmanbeck

Kubudo Warrior (Mnk/Ftr) = free
Holy Fist (Mnk/Pal) = free
Radiant Herald (Pal/Brd) = free
Divine Emissary (Pal/Clr) = Done
Divine Duelist (Pal/Rog) = Done
Spellknight (Pal/Sor) = Elghinn

Divine Warden (Rgr/Clr) = free
Beast Hunter (Rgr/Drd) = free
Spellstrider (Rgr/Sor) = free

Battle Knave (Rog/Ftr) = free
Spellthief (Rog/Sor) = Elghinn (

Living Refrain (Sor/Brd) = Done (may need a bit of tweeking, this was created just as we had evolved into what we are doing now)
Swordmage (Sor/Ftr) = In the works

Divine Mage (Wiz/Clr) = OSW
Stealth Mage (Wiz/Rog) = Done

Sometype of Wiz/Sor = Flak


I'll grab Spellstrider for when we polish off Swordmage, I have an idea for it. (( And I have a version of Fletcher ready- putting it on the backburner. Moment we're done with these, I'll be posting it. ))


I re-read my Beastbrewer and decided that, all in all, such an Alchemist/Summoner could stay in the same book as the Wild Herbalist, who doesn't have bombs. I'll repost the last version of my archetype here, let me know if it's worth to rework it in a multiclass archetype.

Beastbrewer:

Beastbrewer Alchemist (Archetype)
Behind the appearance of every magical or giant beast in the world there could be the hand of a beastbrewer. This alchemist modifies existing creatures with alchemical or surgical procedures for the sake of evolution, science, money or just sport, but is not necessarily cruel like the reanimator or vivisectionist. A beastbrewer has the following class features.
Veterinary: The beastbrewer treats Handle Animal as a class skill. He gains a competence bonus equal to half his class level on all Knowledge (nature) check. When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, he also gains just a competence bonus equal to half his class level.
Alchemical Bond: At 2th level, the beastbrewer receives a loyal companion, mutated by his experiments, to travel and fight at his side. The bonded experiment follows the rules for animal companions, with the beastbrewer alchemist level as his effective druid level -1, with these changes:
-Any known animal, magical beast or aberration can be a bonded experiment (with properly reduced or increased power according to the alchemist level).
-A bonded experiment has a limited number of evolution points like a summoner's eidolon. The number of evolution points granted is equal to 1/2 of the beastbrewer's level plus his Intelligence bonus. Once an evolution is chosen, it can't be changed as the eidolon's evolutions when the beastbrewer advances in level. An evolution must be fit for the beast's actual form; a lion can't have Wing buffet if he doesn't have Flight, for example. A bonded experiment has no free evolutions. It still has its natural attack forms, statistics and characteristics, though.
-A bonded experiment of less than Large size increases one size category at 7th level. If the beastbrewer wants to further enlarge a little companion, a Tiny experiment can become Small at the cost of 1 EP, and a Small experiment becomes Medium at the cost of 2 EP. Further increases in size follow the normal evolution rules.
-The beastbrewer can spend EP to give his bonded experiment other special monster characteristics (see Universal Monster Rules), at a cost depending from the comparable characteristic power (most special powers will cost 4 points at least: this is up to the GM).
-A bonded experiment qualifies for the Extra Evolution feat
-A beastbrewer can pass potions, mutagens, cognatogens and discoveries to his bonded experiment as well as himself.
This ability replaces poison immunity +2.
Beast Unchainer: At 4th level, a beastbrewer adds Atavism to his formula book as a 2nd-level extract.
Create Wondrous Creature: The beastbrewer gains Create Wondrous Creature (from "Secrets of the Alchemist") as a bonus feat at 6th level. The beastbrewer can let his creations free, sell them, give them as presents to NPC (but not to fellows PC), set them as guards for his laboratory or treasure trove, or other. If his bonded experiment is killed, he can replace it with a new creation as long as the new experiment fits in the level requirements. This ability replaces swift poisoning.
Beast Tamer: At 7th level, a beastbrewer adds Awaken to his formula book as a 3th-level extract.
Giant Maker: At 10th level, a beastbrewer adds Animal growth and Transmogrify to his formula book as 4th level extracts.
All-Monster Crafter: At 16th level, a beastbrewer adds Polymorph any object to his formula book as a 6th-level extract (it will work only on living beings).
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the beastbrewer archetype: cognatogen*, eternal potion, extend potion, feral mutagen, grand cognatogen*, grand mutagen, greater cognatogen*, greater mutagen, preserve organs*, tentacle*, vestigial arm*, and wings*.

Wild Herbalist: Which is his spell list? Does he make extracts like an alchemist using the alchemist formulae list?

Angelic Knight: I still think he could be made LG or NG, since the Cassisian prevalent alignment is NG.
The Medium evolution should make the Cassisian Medium, not Large.
And... I was working on a "greater Cassisian" version, aka the Kerubim, from Hebraic mythology... of which the Cassisian is obviously a lesser version.
Essentially:
Large creature
Forms: Angel/Lion/Bull/Giant Eagle/Shocking (Flaming) Greatsword
What about twisting a little the evolutions to make it more like this? As my initial suggestion was the "Sabaoth Knight", or, in Hebraic, "Knight of the Celestial Hosts", a little biblic flavor is in character, I think...
And (just an idea): some Hebraic mythology students point out that the four forms are four Zodiac signs (Aquarius/Leo/Taurus/Scorpio... it seems that in Babilony the Scorpio sign was interpreted as an eagle, not a scorpion). So we could create more Greater Cassisian types to match the remaining signs... such as:
Angel/Giant/Pegasus/Dolphin (Virgo/Gemini/Sagittarius/Pisces)
Angel/Ram/Dragon/Sea Serpent (Libra/Aries/Cancer/Capricorn)

I'm looking forward to the Inquisitor/Witch.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

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..

...

SEERSWORN

OSW's latest seersworn:
Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Primary Class: Witch.

Secondary Class: Oracle.
Hit Dice: d6.
Saves: P/P/G
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The seersworn may select three oracle skills to her class skills in addition to her normal witch class skills. The seersworn gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Seersworns are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a seersworn’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.
Spellcasting: A seerworn casts spells as a witch and draws her spells from the witch spell list. Her caster level is equal to her seersworn level. The seersworn gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score.

Cantrips: As witch.

Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that she chooses a hex as shown on Table: seersworn. Alternatively, the seersworn may opt to choose a revelation from her oracle mystery in the place of a hex.

Major Hex: As witch.

Grand Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except the seersworn selects a grand hex at 20th level.

Modified Hex: Seersworn's Cry (Su): When the seersworn uses the cackle hex, it also extends the duration of any revelation with a duration expressed in rounds affecting a creature within 30 feet.

Seersworn's Blight: At 1st level the seersworn gains the spell Oracle's Burden, and may cast it as if she had the feat Spellhex : You can learn Oracle's Burden as a hex, and can use that hex three times per day. This is a spell-like ability. You use your seersworn level as your caster level for the spell hex. The spell hex uses your hex DC instead of its original spell DC. If the target succeeds at a saving throw, it cannot be affected by the spell hex for 24 hours, even if it is in the area of the spell hex.

New Major Hex: Greater Seersworn's Blight : As Seersworn's Blight, but affects one extra victim per three seersworn levels + int modifier at a range of 30 feet.

New Grand Hex: Seersworn's Malevolence: As Seersworn's Blight, but affects all within earshot.

Mystery: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that the seersworn adds her mystery spells to her spell list at the listed levels, just as she does her Patron spells. A seersworn's mystery should be compatible with her patron - for example Bones/Plague, Battle/Strength, Nature/Animals.

Oracle’s Curse (Ex) As Oracle.

Patron Spells. As Witch.

Witch’s Familiar: The seersworn's familiar is her direct connection to the powers who provide her more otherworldly visions and abilities, and is able to give her direct advice and counsel. This functions exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name with the following additions. *The familiar gains an intelligence score of 8 and learns one language that only the seersworn can understand. At 6th level, and every 6 levels past that, the familiar gains a point of Intelligence and learns another language with which to communicate with the Seersworn's allies.
*If the familiar is unconscious, confused, or slain otherwise incapacitated, the seersworn loses her access to revelations and to her mystery spells until it is restored or replaced. This new familiar begins with the same intelligence as its' predecessor.
*The seersworn must make a concentration check to cast mystery spells if the familiar is more than 5' away from her.

New Mystery: The following Seersworn Mystery may be chosen by a seersworn :

Mystery:
Seersworn
Deities: Any
Class Skills: A seersworn with the seersworn mystery adds Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy and Sense motive to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: eagle eye(2nd), seeming (4th), invisibility purge (6th), sending (8th), wandering star motes (10th), owl's wisdom, mass (12th), sequester (14th), scintillating pattern(16th), euphoric tranquility (18th), wall of suppression(20th)
Revelations: A seersworn with the seersworn mystery may choose from the following revelations.
Aura of Insight (Su): As a standard action, the seersworn can give a small amount of her insight to her allies. The aura affects one ally plus one additional ally for every three seersworn levels, who must all be within 30 feet of her. The seersworn may confer this bonus to herself in the place of one ally. Affected allies gain a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls, AC, and skill checks for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect. The seersworn may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Wis modifier.

Trance of Clarity (Su): This trance grants the seersworn and her familiar a +4 bonus on all saving throws made against mind-affecting effects and immunity to confusion. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. If the familiar fails a saving throw against a mind-affecting effect during this period, it loses its immunity to confusion and is immediately confused for one round. While the familiar is confused, the seersworn may not use her revelations or mystery Spells. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wis modifier.

Second Sight (Ex): The seersworn gains a racial bonus on Perception checks equal to 1/2 her seersworn level (minimum +1). In addition, if she can act during a surprise round, she receives a +2 racial bonus on her Initiative check.

Precognitive Trance (Su): This trance can be entered as a free action. The trance lasts for as many rounds per day as the seersworn's level. These rounds do not have to be consecutive. The seersworn's insight into the future grants her an advantage in combat. At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, she gains a +1 insight bonus on initiative checks.

Spirit Trance (Su): As a standard action, the seersworn can ask one question of a dead creature as if using speak with dead. The dead creature she questions does not gain a Will saving throw if it's alignment is different to the seersworn's. She can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to her seersworn level.

Now that it's looking more or less good from a balance/swap perspective, I'm just gonna go ahead and edit the hell out of it if no one minds.

I'm not messing with the special mystery ATM, just because. Focusing on the class and chart.

flakvised seersworn:

Primary Class: Witch.

Secondary Class: Oracle.

Hit Dice: d6.

Saves: good Will, poor Fortitude and Reflex.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The seersworn may select three oracle skills to her class skills in addition to her normal witch class skills. The seersworn gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Seersworns are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a seersworn’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

Mystery: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that the seersworn adds her mystery spells to her familiar at the listed levels, just as she does her Patron spells. A seersworn's mystery should be compatible with her patron - for example Bones/Plague, Battle/Strength, Nature/Animals.

Oracle’s Curse (Ex): At 1st level, the seersworn is cursed, as the oracle ability by the same name.

Revelations: Anytime the seersworn could select a hex, she may instead select a revelation from her mystery. Seersworns use their seersworn levels as oracle levels for the purposes of qualifying for revelations and determining the effects of revelations they have. The save DC for a seersworn's revelation is equal to 10 + the 1/2 seersworn's level + the seersworn's Intelligence bonus.

Seersworn's Cry (Su): At 2nd level, the seersworn gains the cackle hex. Whenever she uses it, it also extends the duration of any revelation with a duration expressed in rounds affecting a creature within 30 feet. This replaces the witch's 2nd-level hex.

Seersworn's Blight: At 3rd level, the seersworn adds oracle's burden to her familiar. The seersworn may, instead of gaining a hex at a given level, choose to gain oracle's burden as a spell-like ability, usable three times per day. Instead of gaining a major hex at a given level, the seersworn may choose to have her oracle's burden spell-like ability target a number of creatures in range equal to the seersworn's Intelligence bonus on each casting. Instead of gaining a grand hex at a given level, the seersworn may choose to have her oracle's burden spell-like ability affect any number of creatures within range.

Grand Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except the seersworn only selects a grand hex at 20th level.

Witch’s Familiar: The seersworn's familiar is her direct connection to the powers who provide her more otherworldly visions and abilities, and is able to give her direct advice and counsel. This functions exactly like the witch’s ability by the same name except as follows.

The familiar learns one language that only the seersworn can understand. At 6th level, and every 6 levels thereafter, the familiar learns another language with which to communicate with the Seersworn's allies.


If the familiar is unconscious, confused, slain, or otherwise incapacitated, the seersworn loses her access to revelations and to her mystery spells until it is restored or replaced. The seersworn also loses the benefits of her oracle's curse under these circumstances. A replacement familiar knows all the languages its predecessor knew. The seersworn must make a concentration check to cast mystery spells if the familiar is more than 5 feet away from her.

Table: Seersworn
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 01st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Cantrips, hex, mystery, oracle’s curse, witch's familiar 3 1 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Hex 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Seerswon's blight 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Hex 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Hex 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Hex 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Hex, major hex 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Hex 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Hex, grand hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

I redid the seersworn's blight because spell hex really isn't the right way to do it, after all. I simplified things but made it based on the feat. Also, removed unnecessary ability descriptions ("cantrips" etc.). Anyway. Check it out. =)

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

.

..

...

Swordmage

Raiderrpg, why did you rename the bonded object "bonded focus" ? It's also still not balanced, at all. It also has a ton of text that shouldn't be there because you could refer to the bonded object ability (you know, that wizards get).

Weapon Focus is also still lame, because you didn't change it to be the "bonded focus" I recommended. (Though you did see fit to take the name and apply it to your behemoth of a 1st-level ability, who knows why.)

Also having bloodline manifestation in ONE entry, as I wrote it up, is much simpler and cleaner.

Also, you still have faulty wording and bad grammar that I already corrected once in comments.

I really don't feel like repeating myself on all these counts, so please refer to my latest swordmage post in the other thread. Sigh.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Elghinn: I'll do battle knave. Also, the wiz/sorc is done, but I'm still waiting to post it (and the esoteric chemist). Let's wrap up seersworn and swordmage before posting anything else. I think temple dancer was also taken off the table by OSW who was going to work on it more. Not too worried about eldritch fletcher since it should really just be a ranged magus archetype.


P.S.
I know I promised long ago a Live Shaman, but as for now flavor calls me another way... so let me introduce to you:

The Hand of The God:

Primary Class: Magus
Secondary Class: Paladin
Alignment: Any Good
1)Aura of Good, Divine Pool, Cantrips, Spell Combat
2)Spellstrike
3)Merciful Arcana
4)Channel Positive Energy 1d6
5)Smiting Pool
6)Merciful Arcana
7)Channel Positive Energy 2d6, Medium Armor
8)Improved Spell Combat
9)Merciful Arcana
10)Aura of Resolve, Channel Positive Energy 3d6
11)--
12)Merciful Arcana
13)Channel Positive Energy 4d6, Heavy Armor
14)Greater Spell Combat
15)Merciful Arcana
16)Channel Positive Energy 6d6, Aura of Dispelling
17)--
18)Merciful Arcana
19)Channel Positive Energy 7d6, Merciful Magic
20)Divine Champion

New Arcana: Celestial Companion, Champion Blending, Hunter Blending, Pitiful Blending, Ray of Healing


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

While this is kinda an overload for PC choice, I think the real gem here is favorable NPCs. Many of the concepts aren't necessarily aprty friendly for a group; BUT, they make for some wicked NPCs to populate a given area.


Bardess wrote:

P.S.

I know I promised long ago a Live Shaman, but as for now flavor calls me another way... so let me introduce to you:

** spoiler omitted **

Welcome back Bardess. You've been gone a while. Just so you are aware, in the previous thread, I posted the following:

Elghinn wrote:
...we need to finish up the archetypes posted already. We don’t want to get too ahead of our selves. Frankly, I’d really like to get the REDOS of the original Core Archetypes done, but won’t force anyone. Unless there are those of you willing to put whatever you’re working on to help with those redos. If so, we’ll need to split them up, and would prefer people pick or are assigned those that interest you. A big thing, as we all know, is inspiration and creativity. What does everyone think about doing that? Once those are done, we can ALL move forward, forward, forward.

So, if you could hold off posting anything new that is not in the above Core MCA list (except the Seersworn, Esoteric Chemist, and Eldritch Fletcher), that would be great. Just until we get them out of the way.


@re seersworn: thanks flak. I did think of putting in a link btw oracle's burden and the familiar. Good job. I'm happy with your edits. I'll condense your edited version with mine and repost.

@temple dancer - yep, take it off the current todo list, working on this for next round with inquisitor/witch.


Ok, don't worry. I'll work on it on my own and post the final result when you give your OK.


@elghinn - here's the latest. With flaks edits. Also have added two new mystery abilities in bold. There are now seven to choose from - I thought five was somewhat paltry, and the two new ones are in line with those offered by mysteries in APG. Anyone want to check them?

@flak. You did not put Seersworn's cry into the progression table. You did mention it replaced 2nd level hex, so I just replaced that hex in the table. I've also put back in all the witch abilities. If the style is to assume the primary class abilities then fine, we can take them out.

Seersworn:

Primary Class: Witch.
Secondary Class: Oracle.

Hit Dice: d6.

Saves: good Will, poor Fortitude and Reflex.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The seersworn may select three oracle skills to her class skills in addition to her normal witch class skills. The seersworn gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Seersworns are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with a seersworn’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.

The following are class abilities of the Seersworn:

Spellcasting: A seerworn casts spells as a witch and draws her spells from the witch spell list. Her caster level is equal to her seersworn level. The seersworn gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score.

Cantrips: As witch.

Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that she chooses a hex as shown on Table: seersworn.

Patron Spells. As Witch.

Mystery: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that the seersworn adds her mystery spells to her familiar at the listed levels, just as she does her Patron spells. A seersworn's mystery should be compatible with her patron - for example Bones/Plague, Battle/Strength, Nature/Animals.

Oracle’s Curse (Ex): At 1st level, the seersworn is cursed, as the oracle ability by the same name.

Revelations: Anytime the seersworn could select a hex, she may instead select a revelation from her mystery. Seersworns use their seersworn levels as oracle levels for the purposes of qualifying for revelations and determining the effects of revelations they have. The save DC for a seersworn's revelation is equal to 10 + the 1/2 seersworn's level + the seersworn's Intelligence bonus.

Seersworn's Cry (Su): At 2nd level, the seersworn gains the cackle hex. Whenever she uses it, it also extends the duration of any revelation with a duration expressed in rounds affecting a creature within 30 feet. This replaces the witch's 2nd-level hex.

Seersworn's Blight: At 3rd level, the seersworn adds oracle's burden to her familiar. The seersworn may, instead of gaining a hex at a given level, choose to gain oracle's burden as a spell-like ability, usable three times per day. Instead of gaining a major hex at a given level, the seersworn may choose to have her oracle's burden spell-like ability target a number of creatures in range equal to the seersworn's Intelligence bonus on each casting. Instead of gaining a grand hex at a given level, the seersworn may choose to have her oracle's burden spell-like ability affect any number of creatures within range.

Major Hex: As witch.

Grand Hex: This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except the seersworn only selects a grand hex at 20th level.

Witch’s Familiar: The seersworn's familiar is her direct connection to the powers who provide her more otherworldly visions and abilities, and is able to give her direct advice and counsel. This functions exactly like the witch’s ability by the same name except as follows.

The familiar learns one language that only the seersworn can understand. At 6th level, and every 6 levels thereafter, the familiar learns another language with which to communicate with the Seersworn's allies.


If the familiar is unconscious, confused, slain, or otherwise incapacitated, the seersworn loses her access to revelations and to her mystery spells until it is restored or replaced. The seersworn also loses the benefits of her oracle's curse under these circumstances. A replacement familiar knows all the languages its predecessor knew. The seersworn must make a concentration check to cast mystery spells if the familiar is more than 5 feet away from her.

New Mystery: The following Seersworn Mystery may be chosen by a seersworn :

Mystery: Seersworn
Deities: Any
Class Skills: A seersworn with the seersworn mystery adds Bluff, Disguise, Diplomacy and Sense motive to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: eagle eye(2nd), seeming (4th), invisibility purge (6th), sending (8th), wandering star motes (10th), owl's wisdom, mass (12th), sequester (14th), scintillating pattern(16th), euphoric tranquility (18th), wall of suppression(20th)
Revelations: A seersworn with the seersworn mystery may choose from the following revelations.
Aura of Insight (Su): As a standard action, the seersworn can give a small amount of her insight to her allies. The aura affects one ally plus one additional ally for every three seersworn levels, who must all be within 30 feet of her. The seersworn may confer this bonus to herself in the place of one ally. Affected allies gain a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls, AC, and skill checks for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect. The seersworn may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Wis modifier.

Trance of Clarity (Su): This trance grants the seersworn and her familiar a +4 bonus on all saving throws made against mind-affecting effects and immunity to confusion. This bonus lasts for 1 minute. If the familiar fails a saving throw against a mind-affecting effect during this period, it loses its immunity to confusion and is immediately confused for one round. While the familiar is confused, the seersworn may not use her revelations or mystery Spells. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wis modifier.

Second Sight (Ex): The seersworn gains a racial bonus on Perception checks equal to 1/2 her seersworn level (minimum +1). In addition, if she can act during a surprise round, she receives a +2 racial bonus on her Initiative check.

Precognitive Trance (Su): This trance can be entered as a free action. The trance lasts for as many rounds per day as the seersworn's level. These rounds do not have to be consecutive. The seersworn's insight into the future grants her an advantage in combat. At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, she gains a +1 insight bonus on initiative checks.

Spirit Trance (Su): As a standard action, the seersworn can ask one question of a dead creature as if using speak with dead. The dead creature she questions does not gain a Will saving throw if it's alignment is different to the seersworn's. She can use this ability for a number of times per day equal to her seersworn level.

Ovate's Hauberk (Su): The seersworn conjures a coat of shimmering mail that confuses foes and grants a +4 bonus to armor class. At 7th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +2. At 13th level, this armor grants her DR 5/slashing. The seersworn may employ this armor for 1 hour per day per 2 seersworn levels. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1 hour increments. This ability is in line with Armor of bones, Coat of many stars and Ice armor from the mysteries Bones, Heavens and Waves respectively, except I have halved the duration.

Presentient Step (Su): The seersworn's preternatural sense allow her to add her Intelligence modifier (instead of her Dexterity modifier) to her Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Her armor's maximum Dexterity bonus applies to her Intelligence instead of her Dexterity. (This is the same as Sidestep secret from the Lore mystery, except I have used Intelligence instead of Charisma)

Table: Seersworn
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 01st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Cantrips, hex, mystery, oracle’s curse, patron spells,witch's familiar 3 1 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Seersworn's cry 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Seerswon's blight 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Hex 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Hex 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Hex 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Hex, major hex 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Hex 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Hex, grand hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4


Bardess wrote:
Ok, don't worry. I'll work on it on my own and post the final result when you give your OK.

You're welcome to give one of the free Core MCAs a go, if you would like to.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

@OSW: yeeeppp, my bad on the progression table. I knew I'd missed something. Also, yeah, giving seersworn's cry automatically makes more sense to me than "if you take x hex, it can do y" Anyway, looking good. And yes, you don't need the primary abilities. They are assumed, just like for a normal archetype. =) (Though they should be on the progression table, as they are.)


Flak wrote:
@OSW: yeeeppp, my bad on the progression table. I knew I'd missed something. Also, yeah, giving seersworn's cry automatically makes more sense to me than "if you take x hex, it can do y" Anyway, looking good. And yes, you don't need the primary abilities. They are assumed, just like for a normal archetype. =) (Though they should be on the progression table, as they are.)

Yeah, Seersworn looks good. I think we can call it done. It's a family get-together at our house this weekend, so I will pop in intermitantly here and there. Hope to post the Spellrager very soon.

@OSW: we just need a flavor write-up for the Seersworn.


I could take the Divine Warden if you give me a sumpt of the changes you're making (on BAB, ST etc.)


Bardess wrote:
I could take the Divine Warden if you give me a sumpt of the changes you're making (on BAB, ST etc.)

This is our current guidelines:

MULTICLASS ARCHETYPES
Multiclassing is one of the great traditions of fantasy roleplaying games and has resulted in a multitude of archetypical combinations. From the deadly rogue/wizard to the synergistic ranger/cleric, multiclassing allows a character to focus on a primary class while taking another, granting them the ability to more effectively deal with challenges. However, through traditional multiclassing, a character must slow his level advancement and ability progression in one class to gain levels and their subsequent abilities in a new class.
Although many players find the idea of multiclassing appealing, some do not like the necessity of sacrificing the efficacy of certain abilities from their primary class to gain those of another class. In that spirit, by using multiclass archetypes, characters can retain primary features from their primary class without compromising their potency, while exchanging less desirable class features for those from a secondary class. The multiclassing character only gains abilities from their secondary class in part, and not at their full potency like they would if they had selected that class as their primary class. The following multiclass archetypes represent a variety of classic multiclass combinations.

GUIDELINES FOR MULTICLASS ARCHETYPES
Multiclass archetypes, like traditional multiclassing, are a blend of two distinct classes. The first class in which a character gains experience is considered that character’s favored class. When one multiclasses, the character selects another class in order to diversify his repertoire of skills and class abilities, and must adhere to certain established rules. The following terms and their descriptions provide the general guidelines used to create multiclass archetypes.

Primary Class: The primary class of a mutlticlass archetype is the class upon which the archetype is based, and supplies the base hit dice, skills, skill ranks, alignment restrictions, attack bonus, saves, and class abilities for the archetype. All aspects of the primary class are adhered to within the multiclass archetype, except those altered according to archetype’s secondary class. The primary class is also the same as the class section in which the archetype is listed, such as the Spellrager, which is described in the Barbarian section of this book. In traditional multiclassing, the primary class is the character’s favored class, as selected at first level.

Secondary Class: The secondary class of a multiclass archetype provides the alternate class abilities that replace those of the primary class. In traditional multiclassing, the secondary class is a character’s class he chooses to gain experience in addition to his favored class.

Alignment Restrictions: Multiclass archetypes must adhere to the alignment restrictions of the multiclass archetype, as they would for a core or base class. Although traditional rules restrict classes with conflicting alignments from being multiclassed (Barbarian/Paladin), such multiclass archetypes may follow the alignment restrictions of the primary or secondary class, or a new alignment restriction may be created specifically for the archetype.

Hit Dice: Multiclass archetypes retain the hit dice of the primary class. If the hit dice of the secondary class is two steps away (above or below) from of your primary class. It such cases, you gain new hit dice that is one step below or above that of your primary class. For example, a rogue/wizard would retain his d8 hit dice, while a fighter/wizard would receive d8 hit dice instead of the normal d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: Multiclass archetypes use the skill set and ranks of its primary class. However, multiclass archetypes gain bonus skills and ranks at each level based upon their secondary class. Depending upon the discrepancy of skills and ranks between the primary and secondary classes, the archetype provides additional skills and ranks to uphold the multiclass flavor of the archetype. If the archetype’s secondary class gains ranks at each level that are the same as or 2 above that of the primary class, the archetype gains three bonus skills of the character’s choice as selected from the skill set of the secondary class, but gain no additional skill ranks at each level. If the secondary class gains ranks at each level that are 4 or more above that of the primary class, the archetype gains six bonus skills and 2 bonus ranks at each level. For example, a fighter/rogue archetype has fighter as its primary class and rogue as its secondary class. Thus, the fighter/rogue archetype uses the fighter skill list, but gains six bonus skills from the rogue’s skill list of the character’s choice, and gains a total of 4 ranks at each level. Subsequently, a bard/ranger would use the bard skill list, but only gains three bonus skills from the ranger skill list and uses the bard’s ranks at each level.

Base Attack Base: Multiclass archetypes use the base attack bonus of their primary class. If the secondary class has a base attack bonus two steps above that of the primary class, the archetype increases its base attack bonus by one step (1/2 BAB becomes 3/4 BAB, 3/4 BAB becomes full BAB). Thus, a sorcerer/fighter archetype would have a base attack bonus of 3/4 instead of 1/2.

Saving Throws: Multiclass archetypes gain a new set of saving throws, based upon the classes used to create them. If the two classes used to create a multiclass archetype have the same saves (Witch/Sorcerer), or if they overlap in whole or in part (Cleric/Paladin), the new archetype gains the original saves of the two classes. If the two classes each have one good save that does not overlap, the new archetype gains two good saves. If the two classes each have two good saves that do not completely overlap (Alchemist/Druid), the new archetype gains only two good saves as based upon the flavor of the archetype. Should either class have three good saves (Monk), retention of all three is dependant on the flavor of the archetype. Otherwise it only gains two good saves.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Multiclass archetypes use the weapon and armor proficiency of the primary class, but will often gain additional or alternate weapon proficiency acquired from the secondary class. Depending upon the secondary class, the archetype may also gain additional proficiency in armor, although the primary class restrictions will still apply, such as a druid’s restriction on using metal armors. Some archetypes may gain armor proficiency that hampers certain class abilities, such as with arcane spellcasters. In such cases, if the archetype flavor warrants it, the archetype will gain a class feature allowing it to use such abilities with armor in an incremental progression, similar to the armor progression of the Magus (see Ultimate Magic). The overall power of the multiclass archetype determines whether such allowances are warranted or not.

Spell Progression: Multiclass archetypes with a spellcasting primary class continue to cast spells normally in that class. If the archetype’s primary class has a spellcasting ability that is two or more steps below that of the secondary class, the archetype’s spellcasting ability increases by one step. If the primary class has no spellcasting, depending upon the archetype, it may gain a 1/2 caster spell progression or a unique progression table of its own. Additionally, the multiclass archetype may gain the Diminished Spellcasting ability, retaining the primary’s class’s spell progression, but reducing the number of spells cast at each spell level per day, or the number of spells known of each spell level, depending upon the multiclass archetype. Unless noted otherwise, an archetype has a caster level equal to its archetype level.

Class Features: Unless otherwise noted in a multiclass archetype's entry, it retains all the class features of its primary class. Usually some of these primary class features are swapped out for some class features from the secondary class, along with some all-new abilities meant to 'bridge the gap' between the classes. The rules for these trades are the same as the rules for using alternate class features in Paizo's archetype rules (the latest version of which is in Ultimate Combat, p. 24)*. By default, your "class level" for the purpose of determining the effects of any class feature granted by a multiclass archetype is equal to your levels in that multiclass archetype. Specific abilities may operate differently; these differences are explained in the ability's description.

Capstone Abilities: Multiclass archetypes typically retain the capstone ability of their primary class, and rarely gain the capstone ability of their secondary class. However, depending upon the flavor of the archetype, it may be required to “swap” the capstone ability of the primary class, or create a completely unique and flavorful one, much like normal class features (see above).

Favored Classes: There are two options pertaining to the rules of a character’s favored class, and are subject to GM approval. Upon taking a multiclass archetype, the archetype itself becomes the character’s favored class, and gains all benefits of a favored class each level. Alternately, upon taking a multiclass archetype, the archetype’s primary class is designated as the character’s favored class, and therefore gains the benefits of a favored class at every odd level of the multiclass archetype.

Class Archetypes: Multiclass archetypes may be used with the class archetypes presented in the Advance Player’s Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, or any similar Pathfinder RPG source books, based upon compatibility and GM approval.

Disclaimer: While individual multiclass archetypes may be compatible with normal archetypes as long as all required class features to be replaced are present (and replace those class features when they would normally occur within the multi-class archetype, not when specified by the base archetype), like any other archetype they do count as the base class for all purposes. You cannot take levels in Venom Blade and Wild Herbalist, for instance (as both are alchemist multiclass archetypes), though you could take levels in both Wild Herbalist and Bone Knight (making you effectively an alchemist/druid/cavalier/sorcerer). These classes stack and apply all appropriate abilities as any archetype or class level would, as per the multiclassing rules in the Core Rulebook (page 30). Remember that once the character has a level in a multiclass archetype they cannot take the classes within that archetype separately, nor any alternate class of those classes contained therein.

*Note: Although these guidelines have been presented here, creating a Multiclass Archetype is an art form, and requires a certain level of ingenuity, creativity, and understanding of the basic rules of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.


Ok, but can I make some substantial changes on the archetype as it's written? I took some quick notes, and here's how I'd rebuild it in short...

Divine Warden:

ST: Good Fort, Will
Skills: No change
Spellcasting: medium table +1 domain spell, ranger spells & cleric spells
Alignment: as cleric
Weapons: Simple/Martial +favored weapon of the god

1)Aura, Channel Enemy, 1 domain (spells & powers, druidic/animal/terrain domains favored), orisons
2)Combat style feat (must have a style suited for the favored weapon)
3)Endurance, Spontaneous Casting
4)Divine Hunter Bond
5)Channel Enemy 2
6)Combat Style Feat
7)Woodland Stride
8)Swift Tracker
9)Evasion
10)Channel Enemy 3, Combat Style Feat
11)--
12)--
13)--
14)Combat Style Feat
15)Channel Enemy 4
16)Improved Evasion
17)--
18)Combat Style Feat
19)--
20)Channel Enemy 5, Divine Hunter

Channel Enemy: channel energy to heal/harm just a selected subtype of creature, like in some druidic domains. He can choose another creature subtype every time he could choose a new favored enemy (if he chooses a druidic domain with this power, he has effectively a channel enemy more)
Spontaneous Casting: Cure spells for domain spells
Divine Hunter Bond: If with his friends, he can make them benefit of half the healing power of his channel enemy (as if he had a variant channeling ability), if with an animal he treats his effective druid level as his ranger level -4 (minimum 1), but at 11th level the animal companion gains a template suited to the ranger's alignment
Divine Hunter: Channel smite against his chosen enemies.

Just a scratch, let me know if you like.


@ Bardess/Divine Warden - I like the channel enemy ability, but I would rename it. Not getting anything much of my own to change it to so.... Vanquish Enemy, Master Enemy?
Divine hunter bond: not sure why allies are benefitting from this, I know cleric's channel energy is area affect, but still. I would stick to aiding animal companion and self. Or you could rename it to reflect ally aiding.
I like the template idea - was going to suggest something similar for Divine Mage.

@ Divine Mage
Had a look at this on the latest copy. Before I attempt a revamp I thought I'd post these. My thoughts on Divine Mage run:
Leave existing abilities as they are but:

*Make arcane bond/familiar choice available to Divine Mage and give it divine flavour.
If item bond chosen: "Divine bond" on deity's favoured weapon or holy symbol/divine focus, with the ability to cast either divine/domain OR arcane spell, and/or a limited channel energy.

If familiar chosen, give familiar a divine template based on alignment/domain, or offer actual alternate planar/divine familiars.

*Light armor casting at 10th level?

and
*Remove spontaneous casting. (:p Less Cleric, more Wizard). Thoughts anyone?

@Elghinn/Seersworn flavour text.

"Certainty. Confusion. Lost. Found. Past, present, future. All mutable concepts the Seersworn weaves with an arcane weft and a divine warp. Cursed by her knowledge and in turn cursing her foes, she may increasingly choose the spirit of the divine over the science of arcana, but one thing remains clear - knowledge is the ultimate pattern."


Was just going through and idly eyeing some of the archetypes in the current document, and came across this:

Divine Emissary wrote:


Unstoppable Smite: This is exactly like focused smite, but the divine emissary instead gains a +4 bonus to his smite attack roll.

This sounds like it affects only a single attack roll. Shouldn't the language be:

Unstoppable Smite: This is exactly like focused smite, except the divine emissary instead gains a +4 bonus on all attack rolls against the target of his smite evil.

???


Purplefixer wrote:

Was just going through and idly eyeing some of the archetypes in the current document, and came across this:

Divine Emissary wrote:


Unstoppable Smite: This is exactly like focused smite, but the divine emissary instead gains a +4 bonus to his smite attack roll.

This sounds like it affects only a single attack roll. Shouldn't the language be:

Unstoppable Smite: This is exactly like focused smite, except the divine emissary instead gains a +4 bonus on all attack rolls against the target of his smite evil.

???

Yes! Good catch, thanx!


@Everyone in this thread:

I'm sorry to announce this, but I must do it for my own benefit and the benefit of my family. I must pull out of the work we are doing on these MCAs. It's taking too much of my time, and interfering with my family. I'm finding I am becoming addicted to this, and in the past was addicted to playing D&D and PF. So, I must remove myself from this process. PLease continue on with all I have begun. I will post the finalized MCAs we have on my usual download site.

Again I apologize, but I have to do what I must to make things right for myself and my family. I trust Flak, and everyone else will continue this as far as they feel it is useful. I shall try to post the stuff tomorrow, and then, I must bow oout. Thank you for all your input and the comraderies I've been able to share.

EL.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

I'll say "I understand," but I'll not-so-secretly hope that this will just be a hiatus as short as your last one. :(


Holy s&!t ! Ok El, do what you must, i recognise your concern and empathise with you re: family commitments. I must say it's been a mammoth undertaking you embarked upon. A great idea and amazing creativity has followed. A big thank you from me that is for sure. Look in on us from time to time, eh? I echo flak's sentiments. Perhaps hiatus?
Take care.


I'm with Flak, hoping you'll come back 'round sooner or later. :<

Anyway! Working on a little somethin' somethin', should have it ready in a day or two. Basically putting everything we've made and finished in one spot. You'll see it soon.

(( Also, swordmage and Fletcher, I knoooow, they'll be up soonish. I can only work on so much at once :P ))


I understand El, I too have a family and a little child, and I too fear (more than fear, really) to become addicted to this. Take your time and come back when you feel settled with your life.
Someone else has comments on my version of the Divine Warden? If not, I'll change some ability name (suggestions?) and begin to develop it for good, OK?

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

.

..

...

Announcement for All
On the state of this project and our process going forward.

Elghinn does indeed seem to be withdrawing, 'furrealz.' He has appointed me 'unofficial lead' in his stead, so I will lead very unofficially. Basically what this means is that I have full dictatorial control over everything, but wish to exert almost none of this power. I intend to act the parts of task master, thorough but sporadic editor, and infrequent contributor. I should say this now: I, personally, am not interested in many of the MCAs. Flavor-wise, gameplay-wise... they simply don't tickle my fancy. As such, my attention will not be distributed evenly amongst all content posted. This is not a problem, however, because I am not reprising Elghinn's gatekeeper role.

Content will go 'complete' when an overwhelming majority of this thread's main contributors (in no particular order, cartmanbeck, Raiderrpg, Purplefixer, OSW, myself) vote it done. The number of votes required at this time for marking something complete is 4/5, though that could change as the composition of this thread's contributors changes.

The problem of haphazardly updated PDFs will be gone in short order, I hope, as Raiderrpg has volunteered to create a rude but effective online repository for all our current work. This will be in the form of a wiki, I believe, and will be open to the public for viewing. More info on this front later, but basically, once something is marked 'complete' (see above) it will go up. This does not mean it's closed to changes forever, but it means we have a 'final rough draft' of it.

My main role here will be to ensure that we have manageable number of MCAs being worked on at a time. The limit I would like to propose is FOUR. I will do my best to make sure everyone knows which MCAs are being "workshopped," which are available to work on next, and so on and so forth.

I should also make clear my stance on my own contributions to this thread. Everything I make and post is free to use for anyone in whatever way they like, so long as they respect the implicit OGL which accompanies all OGL material reused in my submissions. Others submitting should make their conditions clear, as well, so that we all know where we stand.

Raiderrpg I think should credit each MCA to the people who worked on it in his repository (perhaps noting the person who pioneered the particular MCA separately from the rest). But that's just my opinion, and largely it's based in organizational concerns (ex. "I want to see which ones so-and-so created").

So. With no further ado here's the current list of what we're working on.

CURRENT LIST wrote:


Seersworn (Witch/Oracle) - NOW DONE
Temple Dancer (Bard/Cleric) - drawing board
Aegis Lancer (Cavalier/Wizard) - drawing board
Esoteric Chemist (Wizard/Alchemist) - complete, not posted yet
Eldritch Fletcher (Ranger/Magus) - Raiderrpg's working on it
Swordmage (Sorcerer/Fighter) - Raiderrpg's working on it
Bolds are done, blue will reemerge at some other date.

So there are only two 'in process' right now, waiting for the complete stamp (Raiderrpg's E.F. and S.M.).

After we get these out of the way I'd like to propose that no individual can have more than one submission being workshopped in the thread at once.

Bardess: I'm unclear as to what your beastbrewer or witch hound have to do with this project. Could you maybe clarify your connection to the project, and what you want or don't want to contribute to it? I don't think I was the only one who was surprised by your inquisitor-witch in another thread.

Also, simply posting names of combinations is less helpful than it was previously because Elghinn, who picked these up and worked with them, is no longer with us. Contributions are most useful in the form of actual MCA writeup submissions, playtest feedback, and critical analysis of content being workshopped (e.g., right now, the eldritch fletcher and swordmage).

Almost there.

Lemme know if there are any questions, concerns, etc.. I'll do my best to handle the administrative aspects of keeping the thread on task, but I'd like to reiterate: this project was once Elghinn, but it most certainly is not me.

Selecting Things On Which To Work

We've only got two things in the workshop pipeline at the moment (Raiderrpg's eldritch fletcher and swordmage). Recall that we want to complete all the rewrites of the original core MCAs. The list is below. Work on things to which you've been assigned, or sign up to work on things which are currently marked 'free.' I'll keep the list up to date. Feel free to work on as many things OUTSIDE the thread at a time as you like; only post things for workshop when we have fewer than 4 on the table (as is the case right now; we have 2 open slots).

Core MCA redo checklist:

Spirit Warrior (Bbn/Drd) = Done
Holy Rager (Bbn/Pal) = Done
Spellrager (Bbn/Sor) = Free
Songfilch (Brd/Rog) = Done
Warchanter (Bbn/Brd) = Done

Battle Adept (Clr/Ftr) = Done
Divine Agent (Rog/Clr) = Done
Divine Exemplar (Clr/Pal) = Done
Forest Partriarch (Clr/Rgr) = Done

Land Master (Drd/Rgr) = Done
Spellarbor (Drd/Sor) = free

Divine Blade (Ftr/Clr) = cartmanbeck
Silent Warrior (Ftr/Rog) = cartmanbeck

Kubudo Warrior (Mnk/Ftr) = free
Holy Fist (Mnk/Pal) = free
Radiant Herald (Pal/Brd) = free
Divine Emissary (Pal/Clr) = Done
Divine Duelist (Pal/Rog) = Done
Spellknight (Pal/Sor) = free

Divine Warden (Rgr/Clr) = free
Beast Hunter (Rgr/Drd) = free
Spellstrider (Rgr/Sor) = Raiderrpg

Battle Knave (Rog/Ftr) = Flak
Spellthief (Rog/Sor) = free

Living Refrain (Sor/Brd) = Done (may need a bit of tweeking, this was created just as we had evolved into what we are doing now)
Swordmage (Sor/Ftr) = Raiderrpg

Divine Mage (Wiz/Clr) = OSW
Stealth Mage (Wiz/Rog) = Done

Absolute Arcanist (Wiz/Sor) = Flak

Cheers!


Flak:
I posted the witch hound in another thread because it's a monoclass archetype (very alike to the hexcrafter magus), so I thought it was a different thing from our project. If I remember well, someone else said he wanted to make an Inquisitor/Witch, and I wouldn't make a double of his proposal.
My Beastbrewer alchemist was born as a monoclass archetype too, but somehow I felt that it could be redone better as a multiclass archetype, so I posted here too to ask the contributors' opinion about it (Elghinn previously gave me an half-approving opinion). I've no problem to see it accepted, refused or delayed.
I proposed a scratch of a Magus/Paladin when I was back from holidays, and Elghinn said to postpone it till the work in progress was done, and I accepted; then he proposed me to take one of the free Core Class archetypes to work on, and I posted a scratch of my ideas on the Divine Warden- did you read it, what do you think about it, etc.?

This is pretty much everything...
Oh, and congratulations on your "unofficial" new leading role. I should have proposed you for it nonetheless.^^


Been working on the repository. Planning to have Swordmage finished once and for all, and Eldritch Fletcher Mark II both today.

And we do have the Esoteric Chemist posted in the other thread! I'd like to get you on the horn (read: Aim) about it tonight Flak, though, to consider one final change before we put it up for the vote.

I think we can get these three out of the way by Friday, easily. That leaves us with Temple Dancer and Aegis Lancer... I'm going to wait and make sure everyone is happy with my little repository before I work on anything else, so.


@flak re: announcement for all. That all looks good. I agree!
@raiderrpg: I'm keeping Temple Dancer off the thread - still wrangling her! Thanks for the work you're doing re:archiving.
@ Bardess: interesting work on Inquisitor archetype on the other thread.

@everybody. I'm proposing the Witchfinder to be one of the four MCAs we work on. You'll find it posted below. I also repost my initial thoughts re: Divine Mage:

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Had a look at this on the latest copy. Before I attempt a revamp I thought I'd post these. My thoughts on Divine Mage run:

Leave existing abilities as they are but:

*Make arcane bond/familiar choice available to Divine Mage and give it divine flavour.
If item bond chosen: "Divine bond" on deity's favoured weapon or holy symbol/divine focus, with the ability to cast either divine/domain OR arcane spell, and/or a limited channel energy.

If familiar chosen, give familiar a divine template based on alignment/domain, or offer actual alternate planar/divine familiars.

*Light armor casting at 10th level?

and
*Remove spontaneous casting. (:p Less Cleric, more Wizard). Thoughts anyone?

@re Witchfinder

Preamble: This is inspired by the Witchfinder general (in history, the Witchfinder General of Essex, Michael Hopkins; and in the films Witchfinder General (1968) and Warlock (1989) Inspired by, not based on! This is also NOT supposed to be a particularly christianic churchy-auspiced do-gooder. The Witchfinder as presented here may hail from any faith, shrine, temple, cult or religion. They are divinely inspired, but have the taint of the arcane and happen to be good at rooting out the fey/arcane. Just so’s y’all know where I’m coming from.
*Fey is a catchall term here, and may rankle. I’m up for any term for flavour that encompasses fey, arcanists, summoners, witches, wizards, sorcerors. Could even be enlarged to encompass undead, spirits, outsiders.
*Also – I have left some inquisitor abilities in, because I find it clearer that way, in the initial write-up. This is an initial write up. ;p Some is in the final style, most isn’t. I am happy to attempt a “proper” version nearer completion.
*There are notes at the end, please read before review! :)

Witchfinder:

Primary: Inquisitor
Secondary: Witch

Alignment: Any (lifted the inquisitor restriction re: within one step of deity’s)

Hit Dice: d8
Saves: Inquisitor gets G/P/G, witch gets P/P/G so…? I read the guidelines but STILL DON’T GET IT. NNNNRRRRG! ;(
Bonus Skills: None. 6+int modifier per level.

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple weapons, plus one melee martial weapon OR melee favoured weapon of deity – this weapon is nominated the Feybane weapon (see below). Witchfinders are proficient with light armor only. Armor interferes with the witchfinder’s casting of arcane spells.

Armored Casting: The witchfinder gains the Arcane armor training feat at 1st level. This ability replaces the inquisitor’s missile weapon proficiencies and medium armor and shield proficiency.

Spells: The witchfinder casts divine spells drawn from the inquisitor spell list and receives spells per day as inquisitor. The witchfinder also adds the arcane spells from his patron to his spell list. Learns as inquisitor table 2-4, and no extra Patron spells for high Int.(So it’s spontaneous casting of divine inquisitor/arcane patron spells) Spells per day: table Witchfinder ( to reflect cantrips use)

Domain: As inquisitor.

Judgment: Leaving this as it is for the moment, may reflavor some judgments to reflect fey/witch bent. NOT limiting them to use against fey, but flavor text change to reflect fey origin of powers, and MAYBE some completely changed powers.

Diminished Monster Lore “Fey Incunabula”: The witchfinder adds his Wisdom or Intelligence modifier (whichever is higher) to his skill checks when trying to identify the abilities and weaknesses of fey creatures or witches/summoners/arcanists.

Cantrips: Trading cantrips for inquisitor orisons. Same number known as orisins on inquisitor table 2-4, but per day as table: Witchfinder, which is the same as Witch. (3/day 1st level, 4/day thereafter).

Steel Mind: Witchfinders have trained their thinking to counteract the wiles and tricks of the fey. A witchfinder gains a morale bonus on all saves against sleep, confusion and any other mind-affecting spell/ability equal to +1 for every three levels he possesses (minimum +1) This ability replaces the inquisitor ability Stern Gaze.

Detect Alignment: as Inquisitor.

Trace essence: Looking to flavour this as a more than just following-physical-signs version of track. (I know, I know, tracking encompasses more than just physical signs. How about: The essence of mystical beings lingers in place, leaving the smallest signs that the uninitiated pass by unknowing. Traces the witchfinder is adept at noticing. +mechanic - Maybe add Knowledge: Arcana/Planes/Religion bonus to Survival skill to follow or identify fey traces/tracks?)This replaces the inquisitor ability Track.

Feybane Weapon: The witchfinder can only use this ability if using the one martial weapon/deity’s favoured weapon chosen (see weapon proficiencies above) nominated Feybane Weapon, and the bane may only be used against fey/witches/summoners/arcanists. If the witchfinder loses this weapon, he cannot use this ability. This ability replaces the inquisitor ability Bane.

Discern lies: As inquisitor.
Slayer: As inquisitor.

Second Judgment, Third judgment: Would like to change this to
Blended Torment: (One judgment, one hex) for Second Judgment AND
Wrack of Discord: a mix of three (two judgments/one major hex or hex OR two of major hex or hex/one judgement) for Third Judgment.

True Judgment: as inquisitor

Removed: inquisitor restriction on casting opposed alignment spells. They use any means necessary to commit their holy/profane acts!

Patron: A witchfinder chooses a Patron as a witch, and adds his patron spells to his spell list. He suffers arcane spell failure while casting these spells while wearing any armor, as modified by Arcane Armor training. This ability replaces the inquisitor abilities solo tactics, cunning initiative, stalwart.

Hexes: As Witch. This ability replaces teamwork feat.

Major hex. At 12th level, the witchfinder may choose a major hex. This ability replaces the inquisitor ability exploit weakness.

(note spell table not included yet)
1st Domain, Judgment, diminished monster lore, cantrips, steel mind, patron, armored casting
2nd Detect Alignment, essence trace
3rd Hex
4th Judgment 2/day
5th Feybane Weapon, discern lies
6th Hex
7th Judgment 3/day
8th Blended Torment
9th Hex
10th Judgment 4/day
11th
12th Greater Feybane weapon, major hex
13th Judgment 5/day
14th
15th Hex
16th Judgment 6/day, Wrack of Discord
17th Slayer
18th Hex
19th Judgment 7/day
20th True Judgment

So to my mind the tradeouts are fair, and:
*The modified bane power Feybane weapon is a diminishment of the inquisitor ability.
*Monster lore is diminished (slightly and a slight ability in the first place?)
*It could be argued that removing the opposed alignment spell casting prohibition is actually a bonus ability that is unbalanced.
*It could also be argued that the addition of patron spells is NOT equal to the loss of solo tactics, cunning initiative and stalwart. If so I’d like to insert some witchfinder flavour to the feybane weapon power.
* If you are wondering why some abilities are tied to specific foes – trace essence, diminished monster lore - and feybane weapon, but the judgments (at this stage) are not? It’s a good question. Basically it means the judgments can be used against any foe, while the feybane weapon is primarily used for fey. The judgments could be tied only to the witchfinder’s prey, with more flavour/power given to feybane weapon, but I think it would be too specialised, and thus sometimes completely unusable.
* will change spell text to links to “spells/known: Witchfinder table”, for cantrips known and spells/day progression on major Witchfinder ability table.


Thanks OSW, you seem to have done a good job too... my archetype's just a normal inquisitor with some witch flavor, yours will be a real Inquisitor/Witch!
Some quick thoughts:
I wouldn't hold both Patron and Domain, I guess it's one or the other: I'd say Patron for flavor.
Saves: G/P/G for me.
Cantrips: Why? I'd rather add some witch spells to the inquisitor's spell list...
Judgment/Hexes: Now THIS is the real capstone for me! Keep moving this direction (also feybane, trace essence etc.)


Thanks bardess.

I'd rather leave cantrips as a straight swap for orisons as witch knacks the witchfinder has learned.
As for domain/patron: you raise a good point in my mind. I left domain in as i wanted the domain powers, and as an inquisitor primary the witchfinder is entitled to them but if the link between witchfinder and deity is less strong than inquisitor and deity then maybe they can be a: cut and replaced with new feybane weapon powers at first and 6th/8th level (seems standard for domain powers) OR
b: kept but channeled through feybane weapon. Actually that second option is clunky. Divine powers through arcane weapon? Scratch that. So either leave as is, domain powers or option a. Thanks for the prod on that one.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Bardess wrote:

Flak:

I posted the witch hound in another thread because it's a monoclass archetype (very alike to the hexcrafter magus), so I thought it was a different thing from our project. If I remember well, someone else said he wanted to make an Inquisitor/Witch, and I wouldn't make a double of his proposal.
My Beastbrewer alchemist was born as a monoclass archetype too, but somehow I felt that it could be redone better as a multiclass archetype, so I posted here too to ask the contributors' opinion about it (Elghinn previously gave me an half-approving opinion). I've no problem to see it accepted, refused or delayed.
I proposed a scratch of a Magus/Paladin when I was back from holidays, and Elghinn said to postpone it till the work in progress was done, and I accepted; then he proposed me to take one of the free Core Class archetypes to work on, and I posted a scratch of my ideas on the Divine Warden- did you read it, what do you think about it, etc.?

This is pretty much everything...
Oh, and congratulations on your "unofficial" new leading role. I should have proposed you for it nonetheless.^^

Ah, thanks for clearing that all up for me. Regarding the divine warden: I can't really see a flavor for it that isn't redundant with the terrain patriarch (cleric/ranger, already complete). Maybe we should hold off on it for a while.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Raiderrpg wrote:

Been working on the repository. Planning to have Swordmage finished once and for all, and Eldritch Fletcher Mark II both today.

And we do have the Esoteric Chemist posted in the other thread! I'd like to get you on the horn (read: Aim) about it tonight Flak, though, to consider one final change before we put it up for the vote.

I think we can get these three out of the way by Friday, easily. That leaves us with Temple Dancer and Aegis Lancer... I'm going to wait and make sure everyone is happy with my little repository before I work on anything else, so.

Temple Dancer and Aegis Lancer aren't really on the list right now since they're not circulating the thread (they both got pulled for more private work I think). I'll re-post the Esoteric Chemist tonight (in this thread) in order to put it on the table.

Then the 4 on the table will be:
- Eldritch Fletcher
- Esoteric Chemist
- Swordmage
- Witchfinder

Also, thanks again for the repo. And I'll try to be online tonight. But you can also just post suggestions here or email them to me.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Really briefly, @OSW: let's worry about the divine mage once we bust through the witchfinder, alright? It's all yours and we'll workshop it through, but later. Sound ok?

~=~=~

Now I'm going to do line-by-line on the witchfinder

Quote:

Primary: Inquisitor

Secondary: Witch

Alignment: Any (lifted the inquisitor restriction re: within one step of deity’s)
o.k.
Hit Dice: d8
Saves: Inquisitor gets G/P/G, witch gets P/P/G so…? I read the guidelines but STILL DON’T GET IT. NNNNRRRRG! ;(
the guidelines are, as I read them, a means of explaining the method of our madness to others. For the saves: do whatever makes sense.
Bonus Skills: None. 6+int modifier per level.
I might reduce this to 4 just 'cause, but eh

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: All simple weapons, plus one melee martial weapon OR melee favoured weapon of deity – this weapon is nominated the Feybane weapon (see below). Witchfinders are proficient with light armor only. Armor interferes with the witchfinder’s casting of arcane spells.
noooo ASF please. just let them either A) cast witch spells as divine spells or B) cast arcane spells in light armor. also having a specific feybane weapon sounds kinda cool but you'll need a paragraph somewhere dedicated to explaining its purpose and how it's selected and so on.

Armored Casting: The witchfinder gains the Arcane armor training feat at 1st level. This ability replaces the inquisitor’s missile weapon proficiencies and medium armor and shield proficiency.
See above... and then lose this ability

Spells: The witchfinder casts divine spells drawn from the inquisitor spell list and receives spells per day as inquisitor. The witchfinder also adds the arcane spells from his patron to his spell list. Learns as inquisitor table 2-4, and no extra Patron spells for high Int.(So it’s spontaneous casting of divine inquisitor/arcane patron spells) Spells per day: table Witchfinder ( to reflect cantrips use)
why not just "The witchfinder casts divine spells drawn from the inquisitor and witch spell lists. He receives spells per day as an inquisitor, and bonus spells from a high Wisdom." ? adding the witch spells to his spell list is not a huge buff as his spell selection is still very limited. Also (as I'll reiterate below) I'd just disallow alignment-dependent divine spells altogether, rather than allowing all of them.

Domain: As inquisitor.
I'm tempted to make the witchfinder select an inquisition instead of a domain

Judgment: Leaving this as it is for the moment, may reflavor some judgments to reflect fey/witch bent. NOT limiting them to use against fey, but flavor text change to reflect fey origin of powers, and MAYBE some completely changed powers.
I might leave judgments alone for good, they're plenty flavorful enough. If you want a nice synergistic ability: "A witchfinder may expend one of his daily uses of judgment in order to use a hex on a creature who ordinarily could not be targeted by that hex due to daily hex usage restrictions."

Diminished Monster Lore “Fey Incunabula”: The witchfinder adds his Wisdom or Intelligence modifier (whichever is higher) to his skill checks when trying to identify the abilities and weaknesses of fey creatures or witches/summoners/arcanists.
This is a huge nerf, and "whichever is higher" mechanics are a bit fiddly. How about "The witchfinder adds his Wisdom in addition to his Intelligence modifier on skill checks made to identify the weaknesses of fey and summoned creatures, and on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify arcane spells as they are being cast."

Cantrips: Trading cantrips for inquisitor orisons. Same number known as orisins on inquisitor table 2-4, but per day as table: Witchfinder, which is the same as Witch. (3/day 1st level, 4/day thereafter).
As above I'd really just let them pick witch and inquisitor spells interchangeably.

Steel Mind: Witchfinders have trained their thinking to counteract the wiles and tricks of the fey. A witchfinder gains a morale bonus on all saves against sleep, confusion and any other mind-affecting spell/ability equal to +1 for every three levels he possesses (minimum +1) This ability replaces the inquisitor ability Stern Gaze.
so trap sense for mind-affecting abilities. nice.

Detect Alignment: as Inquisitor.
Why does he keep this?

Trace essence: Looking to flavour this as a more than just following-physical-signs version of track. (I know, I know, tracking encompasses more than just physical signs. How about: The essence of mystical beings lingers in place, leaving the smallest signs that the uninitiated pass by unknowing. Traces the witchfinder is adept at noticing. +mechanic - Maybe add Knowledge: Arcana/Planes/Religion bonus to Survival skill to follow or identify fey traces/tracks?)This replaces the inquisitor ability Track.
how about, when following tracks, the witchfinder gains a bonus on all knowledge arcana checks made to identify auras and ongoing spell effects equal to 1/2 level (instead of getting that bonus on the survival checks).

Feybane Weapon: The witchfinder can only use this ability if using the one martial weapon/deity’s favoured weapon chosen (see weapon proficiencies above) nominated Feybane Weapon, and the bane may only be used against fey/witches/summoners/arcanists. If the witchfinder loses this weapon, he cannot use this ability. This ability replaces the inquisitor ability Bane.
needs some cleaning up, but it's a nicely flavored nerf. should be 'This ability otherwise functions as, and replaces, bane."

Discern lies: As inquisitor.
Slayer: As inquisitor.

Second Judgment, Third judgment: Would like to change this to
Blended Torment: (One judgment, one hex) for Second Judgment AND
Wrack of Discord: a mix of three (two judgments/one major hex or hex OR two of major hex or hex/one judgement) for Third Judgment.
Hm, I'd need to see what exactly you want out of these before I can evaluate them

True Judgment: as inquisitor

Removed: inquisitor restriction on casting opposed alignment spells. They use any means necessary to commit their holy/profane acts!

Patron: A witchfinder chooses a Patron as a witch, and adds his patron spells to his spell list. He suffers arcane spell failure while casting these spells while wearing any armor, as modified by Arcane Armor training. This ability replaces the inquisitor abilities solo tactics, cunning initiative, stalwart.
cooooool. i'd combine this with my earlier proposition of just giving them the witch spell list in addition to inquisitor spell list. currently you're trading a LOT for the meager additional flexibility of the patron ability. so yeah I think we're good to just give them Inq+Witch+1 patron for their spell list, plus inq spells known, and Wis-based bonus spells and DCs, with no ASF in light armor, in exchange for solo tactics, cunning init, and stalwart.

Hexes: As Witch. This ability replaces teamwork feat.
Cool. Still needs proper write-up obviously. But it's nice.

Major hex. At 12th level, the witchfinder may choose a major hex. This ability replaces the inquisitor ability exploit weakness.
Okay, another nerf (kinda). I'm all for it.

(note spell table not included yet)
1st Domain, Judgment, diminished monster lore, cantrips, steel mind, patron, armored casting
2nd Detect Alignment, essence trace
3rd Hex
4th Judgment 2/day
5th Feybane Weapon, discern lies
6th Hex
7th Judgment 3/day
8th Blended Torment
9th Hex
10th Judgment 4/day
11th
12th Greater Feybane weapon, major hex
13th Judgment 5/day
14th
15th Hex
16th Judgment 6/day, Wrack of Discord
17th Slayer
18th Hex
19th Judgment 7/day
20th True Judgment
See my critiques on various things above; may or may not affect this progression table

So to my mind the tradeouts are fair, and:
*The modified bane power Feybane weapon is a diminishment of the inquisitor ability.
It's fine.

*Monster lore is diminished (slightly and a slight ability in the first place?)
See my suggestion on it, which really isn't much of a nerf at the end of the day

*It could be argued that removing the opposed alignment spell casting prohibition is actually a bonus ability that is unbalanced.
Yeah I would just remove that and possibly even eliminate alignment-based spells from the witchfinder's spell list.

*It could also be argued that the addition of patron spells is NOT equal to the loss of solo tactics, cunning initiative and stalwart. If so I’d like to insert some witchfinder flavour to the feybane weapon power.
it's definitely the case that the addition of patron spells is not equal to the loss of those things. my suggestion (as above) is to keep that trade: but give them all witch spells on their spell list, with no ASF.

* If you are wondering why some abilities are tied to specific foes – trace essence, diminished monster lore - and feybane weapon, but the judgments (at this stage) are not? It’s a good question. Basically it means the judgments can be used against any foe, while the feybane weapon is primarily used for fey. The judgments could be tied only to the witchfinder’s prey, with more flavour/power given to feybane weapon, but I think it would be too specialised, and thus sometimes completely unusable.
leave judgments alone, i'd say.

* will change spell text to links to “spells/known: Witchfinder table”, for cantrips known and spells/day progression on major Witchfinder ability table.
Inquisitor spells known is fine. See above suggestions re: spell lists.

Good luck with next round of work on it, OSW. You've got something good going here.


What about See Invisibility in place of Detect Alignment, to see invisible fey?

Flak: I didn't read well Terrain Patriarch, I'll review it better... let's hold off Divine Warden if you want. I may take the Radiant Herald instead, then- when the job at hand is complete.
Oh, and may you put in tail my Hand of the God (Magus/Paladin) too? I have this itch to set an option also for a Redeemer (Paladin/Inquisitor) later... (don't know if you can see that I love holy men in uniform!)
As for the Beastbrewer, I think I'll rebuild it once again as a simple Vivisectionist alternate archetype, so it becomes a monoclass archetype in all (maybe I'll steal some good points from the Wild Herbalist) and so remove it from the project.

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Bardess wrote:


Flak: I didn't read well Terrain Patriarch, I'll review it better... let's hold off Divine Warden if you want. I may take the Radiant Herald instead, then- when the job at hand is complete.
Oh, and may you put in tail my Hand of the God (Magus/Paladin) too? I have this itch to set an option also for a Redeemer (Paladin/Inquisitor) later... (don't know if you can see that I love holy men in uniform!)
As for the Beastbrewer, I think I'll rebuild it once again as a simple Vivisectionist alternate archetype, so it becomes a monoclass archetype in all (maybe I'll steal some good points from the Wild Herbalist) and so remove it from the project.

Sounds good. You can get first dibs on those once we're done with the core MCAs. And you're down for radiant herald. You can work on it at will, obviously, but maybe don't post it until we've got some open slots in the thread.


Oo-kay...
Just an idea: why don't create a Witchery Inquisition for the Witchfinder? That would resolve the dilemma patron/domain/inquisition.

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Because there are plenty of flavorful inquisitions (such as Spellkiller) that would fit already, and a few domains if OSW prefers keeping domains as an option. What's wrong with a patron, by the way?


Nothing (it was my first proposal to OSW)! But there's plenty of cool domains too, yet the Terrain Patriarch has a new one!^^ I proposed it just for flavor and to increase the choices.


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Okay. Playtest data and possible fixes on one class; we've got other matters to attend to, I know, but these are the possible fixes for:

White Witch:

1) Add Detect Evil and Aura of Good at first level, as Paladin.
2) Add Mercies in place of hexes at 6th instead of tenth to get them into play sooner.
3) Drop good fort save, add divine grace at 4th level.
4) Drop Paladin Spell-List- Holy Sword as a fourth level spell? Yeesh.
5) Diminished Spellcasting, for spells per day. (Balance reasons)

These would make it seem different than a witch with a better fort save and 'lay on hands' as an addition.

No rush, just the considerations so they're here when we get to it in however many days.

Swordmage is going to be posted in the next couple hours, just running it through a fast arena-playtest to check balance.


Swordmage 3: Son of Swordmage:

Swordmage

-Sidenote: Swordmage is merely the most common name. Axemage, Clubmage, even Glaivemage all work equally well.

Primary: Sorcerer
Secondary: Fighter
HD: D8
Saves: Good Fort, Good Will
Skills: 2+Int
Bonus Skills: Sorcerer+Bloodline skill. Select three additional fighter skills.

Weapons: Simple. Select one Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Swordmages are proficient with Light Armor.

Level: Special:
1 - Arcane Focus, Diminished Spellcasting, Eschew Materials, Limited Cantrips
2 -
3 - Bloodline Spell, Bonded Focus
4 -
5 - Bloodline Spell, Light Armor
6 -
7 - Bloodline Manifestation, Bloodline Spell
8 -
9 - Bloodline Spell, Combat Readiness
10 -
11 - Bloodline Spell
12 -
13 - Bloodline Manifestation, Bloodline Spell
14 -
15 - Bloodline Spell, Casting Reflexes
16 -
17 - Bloodline Spell
18 -
19 - Bloodline Manifestation, Bloodline Spell
20 - Arcane Assault

Limited Cantrips: At first level, the Swordmage learns the cantrips Detect Magic, Mending, and Light, and may use them at will. He learns no other cantrips as he grows in level. This ability replaces Cantrips.

Diminished Spellcasting: 1 less spell slot per level per day, and one less spell known.

Arcane Focus: Swordmages form a powerful bond with their weapon in place of their first level bloodline power, and begin play with one of their choice at no cost. The weapon is always of masterwork quality, but is not made of any special material. If a swordmage attempts to cast a spell without her bonded weapon in hand, she must make a concentration check (DC 20 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. A bonded weapon can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the swordmage knows and is capable of casting, including bloodline spells. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the swordmage, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the swordmage’s level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities.

The weapon maintains an Aura detectable by Detect Magic and similiar spells, at a strength determined by the Swordmage's caster level.

If at any time the Swordmage's Arcane Focus has at least a +1 enhancement bonus (whether crafted as such or by the Magic Weapon spell), it gains the Spell Storing special quality. Only the Swordmage can cast spells into his Arcane Focus.

A swordmage can also add additional magic abilities to her bonded weapon as if she has the required item creation feats and if she meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a swordmage with a bonded longsword must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the longsword (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Chapter 5 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook). The magic properties of a bonded weapon, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the swordmage who owns it. If a bonded weapon’s owner dies, or the item is replaced, the sword reverts to being an ordinary masterwork weapon of the appropriate type.

If a bonded weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the swordmage rests to regain her spells. If the weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per swordmage level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item.

A swordmage can designate an existing magic weapon as her bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded weapon.

This ability replaces the first bloodline power.

Bonded Focus: The Swordmage gains their choice of Weapon Focus, Arcane Strike, or Combat Casting as a bonus feat. In addition, a swordmage counts 1/2 his total class level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has a similar ability from another class, these abilities stack.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 3rd level.

Light Armor (Ex): At 5th level, a swordmage may select to cast arcane and bloodline spells without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance only if she is wearing light or no armor. A swordmage wearing medium armor, heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 5th level.

Bloodline Manifestation: The Swordmage gains a bloodline power that he could have gained at a previous level. Alternatively, he may select a feat from his Bloodline Feat list.

This replaces the Bloodline feats normally gained at 7th, 13th, and 19th level.

Combat Readiness: At ninth level, whenever the Swordmage rolls for initiative, they may cast a single spell of up to 3rd level as a free action. This spell must only target the swordmage, and they must have any required focus or expensive material components in hand.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 9th level.

Casting Reflexes: At fifteenth level, the Swordmage has honed his reflexes and speed of casting far beyond the ordinary sorcerer. Any time the Swordmage would make an attack of opportunity, they may elect to cast a single touch range spell upon the target instead. They must have one hand free to cast. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to 3+charisma modifier.

Even if the swordmage has the combat reflexes feat, they may only cast one spell in this way each round.

This replaces the Bloodline power normally gained at 15th level.

Arcane Assault: At twentieth level, the swordmage may spend a spell slot of any level while making a full attack. Doing so adds a bonus to each attack roll equal to the spell level. (i.e, a third level spell dropped equals a +3 bonus to each attack made that round.) In addition, one of the attacks made deals additional damage equal to the spell level. This choice can be made after the attack roll, but before the result is announced. (i.e, that third level spell adds a +3 to damage for one of those attacks.) This ability may be used up to three times per day.

This replaces the bloodline power normally gained at twentieth level.

Needs to be written up fancy-like still, but I think this should do it. Seems balanced in random playtesting- level 10 version handled two gynosphinx with minor difficulty and managed my usual multi-ogre test, but level 20 lost out against a Shoggoth. That Combat Readiness letting him toss a turn one combination of Haste and Greater Heroism helped a lot, though.

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@Raiderrpg re: white witch: very good suggestions, all of them. Would you like to implement them into a new write-up of the white witch or should I? (Or would someone else like to step up for this?)

@Raiderrpg re: swordmage: much better. Aside from nice wording I'd say it's just about ready to go. One thing I'd reinvestigate on the capstone, though, is that maybe you should check out the arcane bomber's ability which sacrifices spells to amplify his bombs. That ability is usable at will, but is a swift action and only applies to one attack. On the other hand it adds twice the spell level to the damage of that one attack. Your capstone is pretty much the same thing but 3/day, doesn't use a swift action, applies spell level to all attack rolls and spell level once to one damage roll. I'm not sure how exactly your ability matches up, they're a bit hard to compare, but I'd say I'm a bit underwhelmed. For a 3/day ability I think I'd add the spell level to all damage rolls for the one round, possibly even twice over (so if you sacrifice a 5th-level spell you get +5 to hit and +10 damage). I dunno... thoughts?

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