it's a rogue talent in the UC I believe :)
btw. the ninja can get 1 greater rogue talent, but the rogue can't get a major ninja talent
On Page 69 of Ultimate Combat there is a rogue talent called "Ninja Trick" where you can take the trick over the talent.
The normal Ninja Trick talent/Rogue Talent trick can be taken as often as you like. So in other words, the normal ninja trick and rogue talents list could be merged into one, for purpose of who can take what.
(they're still seperate, because the Forgotten Trick trick actually specifies that it doesn't work on rogue talents)
The advanced Rogue Talent trick can only be taken once, and rogues can't get that.
Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
The normal Ninja Trick talent/Rogue Talent trick can be taken as often as you like. So in other words, the normal ninja trick and rogue talents list could be merged into one, for purpose of who can take what.
(they're still seperate, because the Forgotten Trick trick actually specifies that it doesn't work on rogue talents)The advanced Rogue Talent trick can only be taken once, and rogues can't get that.
Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
Umm yah seems a pity though because that makes the Ninja like superior compared to Rogue and lol Rogue suppose to be the main class. Oh well...
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Ninjas and Rogues are both "the main class now". Rogues have benefits that Ninjas do not.
Not quite true. Alternate classes (ninja, samurai, antipaladin) aren't quite full classes - for instance, you can't take a level in rogue and a different level in ninja. Just one or the other.
Ninjas and Rogues are both "the main class now". Rogues have benefits that Ninjas do not.Not quite true. Alternate classes (ninja, samurai, antipaladin) aren't quite full classes - for instance, you can't take a level in rogue and a different level in ninja. Just one or the other.
True but that also makes getting Trapfinding for example a bit harder for ninjas.
Taking a level or two in rogues would solve that, and give them Evasion, without actually losing on sneak attack or rogue/ninja tricks.But yeah, I'd say that Ninja is a bit superior to rogues
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Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.
However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
True about the ki pool, however let's be honest, the amount of ki rogues get with that talent is sad... Usually 1, some (with 14 wis) maybe 2.
Since the Extra Ki feat requires the "ki pool class feature" which rogues still don't get even with that talent they can't take that feat.
However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
True about the ki pool, however let's be honest, the amount of ki rogues get with that talent is sad... Usually 1, some (with 14 wis) maybe 2.
Since the Extra Ki feat requires the "ki pool class feature" which rogues still don't get even with that talent they can't take that feat.
yeh >.< the Ki Pool Rogue talent is lame.... It would had been fair if you could have extra KI pool at 1/2 Rogue level or 1/3.
However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
True about the ki pool, however let's be honest, the amount of ki rogues get with that talent is sad... Usually 1, some (with 14 wis) maybe 2.
Since the Extra Ki feat requires the "ki pool class feature" which rogues still don't get even with that talent they can't take that feat.
How is the rogue's Ki Pool not a class feature?
However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
I think some GM's may allow ninja's to take a version of 'Extra Ninja Trick', especially since James said here that leaving it out was not a deliberate design decision. I'm betting we'll see it an either an upcoming book or even somewhere in the Jade Regent AP.
How is the rogue's Ki Pool not a class feature?However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
True about the ki pool, however let's be honest, the amount of ki rogues get with that talent is sad... Usually 1, some (with 14 wis) maybe 2.
Since the Extra Ki feat requires the "ki pool class feature" which rogues still don't get even with that talent they can't take that feat.
Because strictly speaking they gain a ki pool, but it's not a class feature.
Otherwise why can't a ninja take "Extra Rogue Talent" when he has taken the rogue talent trick?It's really the same logic. If you say Ninjas can't take the Extra Talent feat, because their talents are called tricks and the rogue talent trick doesn't count as a class feature, you can't suddenly have the ki talent count as a class feature.
Mind you, that's the strictest interpretation of RAW, and I don't think it's RAI, nor that it's the only interpretation of RAW. If it was my game I'd let them take Extra Ki and the ninjas can take extra trick/talent feats too.
Also, thanks for the link to James' post
Otherwise why can't a ninja take "Extra Rogue Talent" when he has taken the rogue talent trick?
He can. What is stopping him?
How is the rogue's Ki Pool not a class feature?However rogues can take a ki pool as a talent which lets them use any ninja tricks they then want to pick up later. Personally I'm not too bothered that ninjas can take advanced rogue talents but not vis versa as there is no feat that lets ninjas take more tricks but rogues can.Also rogues might find alot of the ninja tricks not so great because they need ki to work.
True about the ki pool, however let's be honest, the amount of ki rogues get with that talent is sad... Usually 1, some (with 14 wis) maybe 2.
Since the Extra Ki feat requires the "ki pool class feature" which rogues still don't get even with that talent they can't take that feat.
Because strictly speaking they gain a ki pool, but it's not a class feature.
Otherwise why can't a ninja take "Extra Rogue Talent" when he has taken the rogue talent trick?It's really the same logic. If you say Ninjas can't take the Extra Talent feat, because their talents are called tricks and the rogue talent trick doesn't count as a class feature, you can't suddenly have the ki talent count as a class feature.
Mind you, that's the strictest interpretation of RAW, and I don't think it's RAI, nor that it's the only interpretation of RAW. If it was my game I'd let them take Extra Ki and the ninjas can take extra trick/talent feats too.
Also, thanks for the link to James' post
The way I read it the Ninja trick allowing you pick from the Rogue Talents list is still a Ninja trick. The rogues talent giving you a Ki Pool isn't giving you a Ninja Trick though, there is a separate rogue talent that does that. I don't think it's clear one way or the other because your argument makes sense too. Is the Ki Pool that is the feature or is it just Rogue Talent feature therefore not a Ki Pool feature.