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GM credit for running a game question


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

Andoran *

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I was under the impression that if I run a Tier 1-7 adventure, and the group i run does the sub-tier 1-2, and I want to give the credit to my 6th level character I have to use the tier 1-2 rewards. Is this correct as this is what we all(at our gameshop)assumed? I was reading over the GtPSOP and it says(under gamemaster awards) "The character recieves, +1(1/2)xp, 100% max. gold for the sub tier most appopriate to gm's character for that character advancement track, and max avaialable PAs. So i could get the 6-7 tier gold even though the others got tier 1-2. Does that mean i can purchase items from the tier 6-7 list as well. I know i cannot do day jobs but I can buy and purchase at the end of the scenerio as well.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Garret Candoor wrote:
I was under the impression that if I run a Tier 1-7 adventure, and the group I run does the sub-tier 1-2, and I want to give the credit to my 6th level character, then I have to use the sub-tier 1-2 rewards. Is this correct?

Nope.

Garret wrote:
So I could get the 6-7 sub-tier gold even though the others got sub-tier 1-2.

Yep. If you want to reward your 5th-level PC, round down to sub-tier 3-4. (Likewise, if you are running a Tier 1-7 scenario at subtier 6-7, and you want to apply GM-credit to a beginning character, use the lowest subtier.)

Garret wrote:
Does that mean I can purchase items from the sub-tier 6-7 list as well? I know I cannot do day jobs but I can buy and purchase at the end of the scenerio as well.

That's not as clear-cut, but I would imagine so, yes.

Andoran *

That is what i thought it read and i guess we were going by the old Guides versions and didnt really look too hard at the new one. We will be doing a hard look(at the new guide) before this weekends gameday to be ready. Thank you.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Garret Candoor wrote:
That is what i thought it read and i guess we were going by the old Guides versions and didnt really look too hard at the new one. We will be doing a hard look(at the new guide) before this weekends gameday to be ready. Thank you.

It was the same in the old version as well, been that way since day 1 of GM credit, in fact almost the same exact wording as well.


Like was said, you apply the chronicle for the sub-tier most appropriate for the level of your character. In your example, if you run sub-tier 6-7 and you have a 2nd level character, you would fill out a chronicle sheet for sub-tier 1-2 and assign it to that character. That includes the gold reward for that sub-tier and available items for purchase. It is an all or nothing system. You do not get to pick and choose what your character gets from each sub-tier.

The area that Dragnmoon may be thinking of it holding a chronicle for a character til it reaches the level of the chronicle and then applying that chronicle. Say you run a 5-9 scenario and the character you want to give the chronicle to is 2nd level. You can give the sub-tier 5-6 chronicle to that character but you cannot apply the gold or PP or XP until the character reaches 5th level and the items on the chronicle could not be purchased til the character is the right level either.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Even tho he is not of Landru, Dragnmoon is correct. The rules have always been that you apply the rewards from the sub-tier of the GM's character, not the sub-tier of the session.

Grand Lodge ****

just a quick one - if you GM Tier 1-5 can you apply the credit to your level 7 char?
First batch of high level characters are emerging so I want to be sure :)


No, to apply gm credit to a character, the character has to be able to play in that scenario at the time you apply it, so to apply a 1-5 credit the character must be lv 1-5. The only exception being the above mentioned applying a 5-9 scenario to a lv2.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

zrinka znidarcic wrote:

just a quick one - if you GM Tier 1-5 can you apply the credit to your level 7 char?

First batch of high level characters are emerging so I want to be sure :)

I tried to solve this with my search fu but actually don't think this situation is covered in the rules. It clearly states what happens if you're below level or between, but not if you're above. I'd stipulate that you'd take the one closest to your levels (4-5 tier if you're level 7).

Grand Lodge ****

@Dood
thats what I thought at first.. so the search continues


WalterGM wrote:
zrinka znidarcic wrote:

just a quick one - if you GM Tier 1-5 can you apply the credit to your level 7 char?

First batch of high level characters are emerging so I want to be sure :)
I tried to solve this with my search fu but actually don't think this situation is covered in the rules. It clearly states what happens if you're below level or between, but not if you're above. I'd stipulate that you'd take the one closest to your levels (4-5 tier if you're level 7).

Spoiler:
Page 25 of the Guide to Organized Play.

Most of these tiers have subtiers. The subtiers for each
tier are as follows.
• Tier 1–5: Subtiers 1–2 and 4–5
• Tier 3–7: Subtiers 3–4 and 6–7
• Tier 5–9: Subtiers 5–6 and 8–9
• Tier 7–11: Subtiers 7–8 and 10–11
Tiers are a level restriction for play. If a PC’s level does
not fall within the level range of a scenario’s tier, that
character can not legally play in that scenario.
For example,
a 5th-level PC is legal for play in scenarios of Tiers 1–5, 3–7,
and 5–9; a 1st-level PC can only legally play in a Tier 1 or
Tier 1–5 scenario. Within each tier, PCs should play in the
subtier in which they fall whenever possible, but they may
be allowed to play up or down, based on the average party
level at the table, as outlined below. Some scenarios or
special events offer more than two subtiers. In these cases,
no PC can play at a subtier more than 1 step away from her
character level.

Emphasis in bold. The bolded text states that a PC's lv must be within a tier's range to be considered legal to play. Now I know what you're thinking, we're talking about a GM's character not a players. But as far as I know GM's don't get exempted from this rule, so really what's the difference? I guess they should clarify this for some people though.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

Some Random Dood wrote:

"Tiers are a level restriction for play. If a PC’s level does not fall within the level range of a scenario’s tier, that character can not legally play in that scenario."

The bolded text states that a PC's lv must be within a tier's range to be considered legal to play. Now I know what you're thinking, we're talking about a GM's character not a players. But as far as I know GM's don't get exempted from this rule, so really what's the difference? I guess they should clarify this for some people though.

If GM's aren't exempted from this rule than a GM with a level 11 character and no others isn't "legally allowed" to run a 5-9 game, or a 3-7. Right?

Unless we're going to make the assumption that they could apply the credit from the lowest tier (5-6 or 3-4 in those examples) to a new level 1 character, when that character reaches the appropriate level. But then that's the same problem, it's an assumption, which means it's not required to be fact.

We just need a quick ruling on this and it's resolved. Everything else is just pondering imo. And pondering serves a purpose, it leads us to realize we need an offical call :P

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
GtPFSOP page 16 wrote:
When you GM a scenario, you receive a Chronicle that you may apply to any character within the scenario’s tier that does not already have a Chronicle for the same scenario. That character receives the maximum XP, gold, and Prestige Points allowed for its subtier as if she had played through the scenario. Such a PC gains access to the equipment listed on the Chronicle sheet, but does not receive any of the special boons listed. If a PC to whom you apply credit falls between two subtiers, always grant the award for the lower subtier.

Emphasis mine.

If your only characters are higher than the scenario's tier, apply the credit to a new character (or hold it to apply in future if it's a tier 3-7 scenario, for example).


WalterGM wrote:
If GM's aren't exempted from this rule than a GM with a level 11 character and no others isn't "legally allowed" to run a 5-9 game, or a 3-7. Right?

I wasn't aware there was a rule preventing people from gming, do you mind pointing out where that rule is? As far as I know a gm can run any scenario they want, but they may only receive credit from running each scenario once. Even then in your example where the gm has only a lv 11 character, ok they can't apply the credit from a 3-7 or 5-9 towards it. But there's nothing stopping the gm from running those scenario's, hell the same person could run the same scenario multiple times if they wanted, they just wouldn't receive credit after the first time.

WalterGM wrote:
Unless we're going to make the assumption that they could apply the credit from the lowest tier (5-6 or 3-4 in those examples) to a new level 1 character, when that character reaches the appropriate level. But then that's the same problem, it's an assumption, which means it's not required to be fact.

Funny how the Guide to Organized Play mentions that a GM can do exactly that, so it's not an assumption. Of course the character in question would receive no credit or any other benefit from that scenario until they reach the minimum lv required to legally play it, just like a player.

Spoiler:
Guide to Organized Play Page 30-31

Game Master Rewards
In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, we reward GMs
for volunteering their time to run such events. Starting
with Version 2.2 of this document (and not retroactive to
any previous scenarios that were run), any GM who runs
a scenario gets full credit for that scenario applied to
one of her own characters, as detailed under Replaying
Scenarios on page 16. “Full credit” means the GM gets the
following: +1 XP for the scenario, 100% of the Max Gold
for the subtier most appropriate to the GM’s character, and 2 PP (or, for a slow advancement track character, +1/2
XP, 1 PP, and 50% of the Max Gold for the subtier most
appropriate to the GM’s character).
The GM does not get any special boons bestowed by a
Chronicle sheet, such as free magical treasure, regional
boons, or future bonus dice rolls. The GM also does not
get a Day Job check. If the GM previously received partial
credit on a Chronicle sheet for a scenario she ran (using
the old reward system), she must keep the partial credit
and cannot run the scenario again for full credit on a
second Chronicle sheet.
The subtier for which a GM’s character receives credit
depends on the character’s level. If a GM with a 1st-level
rogue runs a Tier 1–5 scenario using Subtier 1–2, she
takes a Subtier 1–2 Chronicle sheet for her 1st-level rogue.
If she instead runs a Tier 1–5 scenario using Subtier 4–5,
she still takes a Subtier 1–2 Chronicle sheet, as her PC
clearly falls within the lower subtier.
If the GM with a low-level character runs any higher
tier scenarios that don’t include a subtier for her 1st-level
rogue, she takes the lowest subtier Chronicle sheet from
that scenario and holds it for her PC. Then, once her PC
achieves the appropriate level for that Chronicle sheet,
it is immediately applied. For example, if a GM with a
1st-level rogue runs a Tier 5–9 scenario, she would take
a Subtier 5–6 Chronicle sheet (the lowest subtier for that
tier) for running the scenario and set it aside. Once her
rogue reaches 5th level, she can immediately apply the
Chronicle sheet to her character. This means that GM
characters can potentially level up in bursts.
Should a GM receive a Chronicle sheet that indicates
her character is between subtiers (for example, if she runs
a Tier 1–5 scenario with Subtiers 1–2 and 4–5 but has a
3rd-level character), she must always play down, taking a
Chronicle sheet for the lower subtier. This rule is meant
to balance the fact that the GM’s character does not have
to expend any resources or risk death while gaining a
Chronicle sheet for running a scenario.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

A GM can always run a scenario no matter what level his characters are.

He isn't forced to take GM credit.

It would be silly to ban a GM from game mastering for bureaucratic reasons just because he has no right level character or doesn't want to apply credit to his favourite character but rather prefers to play him/her.

Sczarni ***

So a GM with lv11 character can't apply chronicle from tier 5-9, nor can he apply it to lv1 character?

Isn't that kinda ineffective ? You will acummulate tons of chronicles to no characters to apply on over time.

Grand Lodge ****

I didn't mean he'd be banned, I just want to be sure how does it work when you GM low levels but want to apply the credit to a much higher level character.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Malag wrote:

So a GM with lv11 character can't apply chronicle from tier 5-9, nor can he apply it to lv1 character?

Isn't that kinda ineffective ? You will acummulate tons of chronicles to no characters to apply on over time.

Once your Level 1 characeter gets to Level 5, then you apply it.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber
Malag wrote:

So a GM with lv11 character can't apply chronicle from tier 5-9, nor can he apply it to lv1 character?

Isn't that kinda ineffective ? You will acummulate tons of chronicles to no characters to apply on over time.

There is a good reason to have more than one character - both as player as well as GM. Someone with only a lv11 character has very, very limited options.

Grand Lodge ****

rescued by collegue VL (thanks Matthew)

It was there all along apparently:
Page 16 of the Guide:

"When you GM a scenario, you receive a Chronicle that
you may apply to any character within the scenario’s
tier
that does not already have a Chronicle for the same
scenario."

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
zrinka znidarcic wrote:
It was there all along apparently

Hey, I posted that yesterday!

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Washington—Eastern Washington aka WalterGM

Paz wrote:
GtPFSOP page 16 wrote:
When you GM a scenario, you receive a Chronicle that you may apply to any character within the scenario’s tier that does not already have a Chronicle for the same scenario. That character receives the maximum XP, gold, and Prestige Points allowed for its subtier as if she had played through the scenario. Such a PC gains access to the equipment listed on the Chronicle sheet, but does not receive any of the special boons listed. If a PC to whom you apply credit falls between two subtiers, always grant the award for the lower subtier.

Emphasis mine.

If your only characters are higher than the scenario's tier, apply the credit to a new character (or hold it to apply in future if it's a tier 3-7 scenario, for example).

Guess thems the rules. Seems a tad bizzare, preventing GMs from leveling up their characters with less gold than they would have likely gotten from a level appropriate game. But I suppose it keeps things simple.

Quote:
I wasn't aware there was a rule preventing people from gming, do you mind pointing out where that rule is? As far as I know a gm can run any scenario they want, but they may only receive credit from running each scenario once.

There isn't one. I was using the same wording you used in your example to show why, to me, it seems flawed. Nevertheless, this thread isn't looking for opinions, only rulings, which have been identified for the matter in question.

Grand Lodge ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paz wrote:
zrinka znidarcic wrote:
It was there all along apparently
Hey, I posted that yesterday!

my apologies, you did indeed! and belated thank you then :)

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