What about Golarion bugs you?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Shadow Lodge

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Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
And they aren't in the public eye at all. They also don't fight giant spider robots in a setting that doesn't even have computer chips.

As far as you know. . .

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:

I hate the death of Aroden.

Specifically, I hate it because he was, essentially, the God of Humanity, and in pretty much every setting, humnas never have an offical patron god. Then comes along a setting that has one, and he dies. It makes me mad everytime I think about it.

If any other god had bit it, I would be fine.

Humans don't need a patron god in most settings, they tend to claim the bulk of the gods that exist. In Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms, in fact each of the major Human divisions, like the Suel for instance, had entire pantheons devoted to them.

Technically speaking, Aroden didn't "bite it". He was created dead specifically for the following reasons.

1. As background material primarily for Cheliax

2. And to specifically de-emphasize the role of prophecy in the world setting, as his death breaks the chain of prediction.

Aroden, unlike most racial specific deities also had no role in the creation of the species he's supposed to patronize. He was born a mortal Human and jumped up to mythic by exposure to an alien artifact.


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LazarX wrote:
Sayer_of_Nay wrote:

I hate the death of Aroden.

Specifically, I hate it because he was, essentially, the God of Humanity, and in pretty much every setting, humnas never have an offical patron god. Then comes along a setting that has one, and he dies. It makes me mad everytime I think about it.

If any other god had bit it, I would be fine.

Humans don't need a patron god in most settings, they tend to claim the bulk of the gods that exist. In Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms, in fact each of the major Human divisions, like the Suel for instance, had entire pantheons devoted to them.

Technically speaking, Aroden didn't "bite it". He was created dead specifically for the following reasons.

1. As background material primarily for Cheliax

2. And to specifically de-emphasize the role of prophecy in the world setting, as his death breaks the chain of prediction.

Aroden, unlike most racial specific deities also had no role in the creation of the species he's supposed to patronize. He was born a mortal Human and jumped up to mythic by exposure to an alien artifact.

He's a pretty arrogant god as well claiming to be the god of humanity. The Garundi, Vudrans, Keleshites, Tian Xians, Arcadians, etc. might object to some white guy who touched a magic stone declaring himself their racial god.

Perhaps they all lodged a complaint in the divine court of justice, Aroden lost, and was stripped of his immortality and immediately died of old age.

At best, all Aroden ever was, was the patron god of the Taldan Empire and its successor states.


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Jeven wrote:


He's a pretty arrogant god as well claiming to be the god of humanity. The Garundi, Vudrans, Keleshites, Tian Xians, Arcadians, etc. might object to some white guy who touched a magic stone declaring himself their racial god.
Perhaps they all lodged a complaint in the divine court of justice, Aroden lost, and was stripped of his immortality and immediately died of old age.

At best, all Aroden ever was, was the patron god of the Taldan Empire and its successor states.

I don't disagree with you about the arrogance. Gods tend to be. As for human ethnic differences, they pale (No pun intended. Honest) compared to actual racial differences (Human, Elf, Dwarf, etc.) in a fantasy world. Then too, there is no reason a god couldn't appear in slightly different guises to slightly different (or very different) worshippers. I am not claiming he did btw, just saying "why not".


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Jeven wrote:


He's a pretty arrogant god as well claiming to be the god of humanity. The Garundi, Vudrans, Keleshites, Tian Xians, Arcadians, etc. might object to some white guy who touched a magic stone declaring himself their racial god.

Is Aroden white? I think he's Azlanti, and so he's got a golden-olive tone. Fairer than a Garundi, sure, but not as pale as the Ulfen. Besides, I doubt "paler" is considered "better" in Golarion.


As WJS noted, he is definitively not "white" - at least not to my view, though he is more pale than some human ethnicities. If anything, I would suggest he looks slightly oriental, as do all the Azlanti, though they have features from several races.

a poor picture

image searches seem useless (the only actual official picture of Aroden there is the one I linked above; you need to see him in Ultimate Magic or Mythic Realms to understand what I mean, though)

his PF Wiki entry

Also, he went around making the world better for humans for thousands of years the slow hard way in twelve distinct guises to different worshipers at different times (all of which are etched on a wall in Taldor).

Also, also, he didn't declare himself a god for touching an Alien rock - it seems that some other god did that for him.

So, you know, as far as gods go, Aroden isn't really all that bad of one. :)


No Aroden was not white, just a member of what considered itself to be the master race of humans. And in my view quite a bit of his race's arrogance seemed to shine through.

While he embraced pantheism, the way he did it sounds pretty arrogant. Once he ascended as a god he proclaimed himself the steward of humanity's past and future and "allowed other specialized deities to look after other aspects of development". Mighty generous that he allowed the gods who fought and imprisoned Rovagug, gods who had led humanity since the dawn of time, to continue doing their thing.

We also know his church was pretty grabby with other gods relics. Arazni's Bloodstones were claimed by the church and most of Iomedae's melted armor and accouterments from her ascendance to godhood were scraped up by priests of Aroden to make artifacts for their church.

So, yeah, he comes off as pretty arrogant and entitled.

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Arazni and Iomadae were both servants of Aroden. I find it hardly suspicious or arrogant that they would be the caretakers of relics for servants of their god.

Remember, the Azlanti ARE better then baseline humans, and their bloodlines have bled into every human race out there. I don't have a problem with the humans finally having a devoted sponsor deity. The Golarion pantheon overall is NOT concerned with race, except for specific exceptions like Torag and the dwarves. Watching over the lesser races of humanity and trying to raise them back up to the level of the Azlanti doesn't sound arrogant to me, it sounds pretty charitable.

Of course, if you read that as trying to restore human supremacy, that's a different issue.

I'll also note that 3.5 did have a human racial god. Naturally enough, he was an LE complete racist conqueror/emperor figure, instead of a human paragon. Aroden was a welcome change from that viewpoint, at least, since he's an elitist, but he's not an out and out racist conqueror.

==Aelryinth


Then we are bound to disagree. Especially since the church of Aroden didn't act as caretakers for Iomedae's molten armor they crafted it into relics for themselves. The Thorncrown was the only thing they did not co-op.

Granted that was Aroden's Church, not Aroden himself. It still comes across as a reflection of his attitude to me.

I am not saying that he was even a bad or poorly thought out deity. Or that he didn't have a place to claim as humanity's shepherd if you will. Just that he comes across as arrogant.


Aelryinth wrote:
Remember, the Azlanti ARE better then baseline humans, and their bloodlines have bled into every human race out there.

Which is rather silly. Natural selection would make the Azlanti genes win out, and every human on Golarion (barring the most isolated groups) would have +2 to all attributes by now.


My biggest beef is that paladins still have the alignment restriction to LG. nothing about the class outside of a couple spells and divine bond's ability to add axiomatic to a weapon implies that a paladin needs to be lawful. While Iomadae is the goddess of paladins, I would certainly say that the two CG gods have just as much reason to want divine warrior champions. If anything, their struggle is even more constant that the other good deities! Night, by it's very nature, happens every day, and there is always something lurking in it to attack people, be it in the form of thugs beating down commoners or demons swiping people away, and as such, Desna's quest to stop people from using the night to instill fear on the people is a constant job. Cayden Cailean's mission to destroy oppressors and tyrants and liberate slaves is an issue that has always been around, and probably always will. I see no reason why these deities should be barred from have sturdy and resolute warriors to face these issues.

On another note... Not enough stuff about Numeria! That place is badass and need more lore.


Except that +2 across the board bonus to all abilities the Azlanti boast isn't actually from superiority. It is from the tinkering of the Aboleth and comes at the cost of being subservient to them.

When the Azlanti stopped being subservient the Aboleth wiped them out.


Khelavraa wrote:

Except that +2 across the board bonus to all abilities the Azlanti boast isn't actually from superiority. It is from the tinkering of the Aboleth and comes at the cost of being subservient to them.

When the Azlanti stopped being subservient the Aboleth wiped them out.

But unless it was actively maintained by aboleth magic and could be stripped away by them, that shouldn't matter.

If it's genetic -- inheritable -- it doesn't matter that it was put there by artificial means. Once it's in the population, it's there.

Azlanti genes should mean better survival (higher Con) and likely a mate-choice advantage as well (higher Cha).

So unless literally no Azlanti had children with non-Azlanti who ended up living outside Azlant, and thus having descendants who survived Earthfall, the Azlanti genes should be everywhere.

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The number of Azlanti survivors were scattered and their genes are out in the human population now, subsumed by the greater gene pool. They are probably a recessive trait that only breeds true between Azlantis. Technically, it's still possible to be 'Azlanti', but you have to take the +1 LA for it.

Iomadae and Arazni didn't have a church. They were servants of Aroden. Exactly who was supposed to take care of their relics? Iomadae didn't have a church of her own until after Aroden fell, and Arazni was his Herald, fergoshsakes.

I think you're being a wee bit hard on the innately genetically superior god here. :)

I would also like to point out that you CAN find Azlanti blood. Those tanks in the 4th adventure of Rune Lords that breed endless amounts of warriors are all pure-blood Azlanti, and Karzoug is raising more from stasis, too.

==Aelryinth


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This is kinda off topic at this point because Aroden doesn't bug me nor does what he and his church did. I simply agreed that he is arrogant and somewhat self-entitled. I actually like him that way because that arrogance gives me conflict and grist for stories.

On the relics - The knights of Ozem and Iomedae worshiped the goddess Arazni. They were her church - Retconning in general and specifically of Arazni's status is one of the things that does bug me. According to the Artifacts and Legends after Iomedae ascended the knights of Ozem and Iomedae's followers returned to Last Wall to establish Iomedae's first church. The Church of Aroden did not "Take care of relics". They took that molten armor and made relics for themselves.

You know, you are right. That +2 bonus surely made him completely superior to all the other gods out there I am sure ;)


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KtA wrote:
Khelavraa wrote:

Except that +2 across the board bonus to all abilities the Azlanti boast isn't actually from superiority. It is from the tinkering of the Aboleth and comes at the cost of being subservient to them.

When the Azlanti stopped being subservient the Aboleth wiped them out.

But unless it was actively maintained by aboleth magic and could be stripped away by them, that shouldn't matter.

If it's genetic -- inheritable -- it doesn't matter that it was put there by artificial means. Once it's in the population, it's there.

Azlanti genes should mean better survival (higher Con) and likely a mate-choice advantage as well (higher Cha).

So unless literally no Azlanti had children with non-Azlanti who ended up living outside Azlant, and thus having descendants who survived Earthfall, the Azlanti genes should be everywhere.

But this is also a Fantasy setting, so it may be erroneous to assume that bloodlines function via normal rules of genetics, and not by equal parts magic.


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KtA wrote:
Khelavraa wrote:

Except that +2 across the board bonus to all abilities the Azlanti boast isn't actually from superiority. It is from the tinkering of the Aboleth and comes at the cost of being subservient to them.

When the Azlanti stopped being subservient the Aboleth wiped them out.

But unless it was actively maintained by aboleth magic and could be stripped away by them, that shouldn't matter.

If it's genetic -- inheritable -- it doesn't matter that it was put there by artificial means. Once it's in the population, it's there.

Azlanti genes should mean better survival (higher Con) and likely a mate-choice advantage as well (higher Cha).

So unless literally no Azlanti had children with non-Azlanti who ended up living outside Azlant, and thus having descendants who survived Earthfall, the Azlanti genes should be everywhere.

It's possible that those genes are recessive or only express in certain conditions now absent. If they are recessive than they are probably swamped out by the mainland genetics. Or that while they produce better stats than normal humans, there might be a side effect not obvious from the mechanics that might make the genes selected against.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Even if the +2s across the board are beneficial, there may be downsides to being pureblood Azlanti. Maybe they're arrogant you-know-whats, or maybe they have a small genetic pool, making them prone to hereditary illness. Maybe aboleth meddling made them icky.


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Khelavraa wrote:

No Aroden was not white, just a member of what considered itself to be the master race of humans. And in my view quite a bit of his race's arrogance seemed to shine through.

While he embraced pantheism, the way he did it sounds pretty arrogant. Once he ascended as a god he proclaimed himself the steward of humanity's past and future and "allowed other specialized deities to look after other aspects of development". Mighty generous that he allowed the gods who fought and imprisoned Rovagug, gods who had led humanity since the dawn of time, to continue doing their thing.

Considering that those gods sat back and did nothing while the Aboleths took control of humanity's fate, someone had to step up who was actually willing to pay attention.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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I prefer to think that pre-Azlanti blood, all humans were 'no +2 mod' races. We just got the feat and skill points.

Because of the Azlanti, now all humans get +2 to a stat of their choice! See, there's Azlanti in all of us now.

==Aelryinth


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I feel that they could have done the Drow differently. They could have made them "bad guys" without making them Demon worshiping sadists that are all naturally evil.

In my game I modeled them after Ancient Rome. They're still Imperialistic Xenophobes with a decadent and hedonistic nobility, and they still raid other settlements for slaves and plunder, but it's brought about by the scarcity of resources in the Darklands and their constant fight for survival against

Their animosity toward thier surface kin is do to the fact that the Drow are ruled by an Imperial family that claim lineage to the Elf monarchy that ruled before Earthfall. Their aggressive actions toward their surface cousins were attempts at "unification" for the Elf race.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

If I want to do Ancient Rome, I'll write up one of the human ethnicities that way. Setting aside the unfortunate implications of turning "exotic cultures" into non-humans, Drow are not human, and therefore turning them into a kind of human seems like wasted potential to me.


RJGrady wrote:
If I want to do Ancient Rome, I'll write up one of the human ethnicities that way. Setting aside the unfortunate implications of turning "exotic cultures" into non-humans, Drow are not human, and therefore turning them into a kind of human seems like wasted potential to me.

This. This This This This This.

This is why I LIKE the humano-centrism of Golarion. Give non-human races their own non-human cultures. Thank you Paizo.


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samuraixsithlord wrote:
I feel that they could have done the Drow differently. They could have made them "bad guys" without making them Demon worshiping sadists that are all naturally evil.

Well, the classic drow (especially Pre-Drizzt) were all Demon-Goddess (Lloth/Lolth) worshipping sadists that were all naturally evil . . .


Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Khelavraa wrote:

No Aroden was not white, just a member of what considered itself to be the master race of humans. And in my view quite a bit of his race's arrogance seemed to shine through.

While he embraced pantheism, the way he did it sounds pretty arrogant. Once he ascended as a god he proclaimed himself the steward of humanity's past and future and "allowed other specialized deities to look after other aspects of development". Mighty generous that he allowed the gods who fought and imprisoned Rovagug, gods who had led humanity since the dawn of time, to continue doing their thing.

Considering that those gods sat back and did nothing while the Aboleths took control of humanity's fate, someone had to step up who was actually willing to pay attention.

His looking after humanity can be played both ways. Aroden raised a potent artifact of aboleth magic and founded the greatest city on the face of modern Golarion around it, which makes him look more like an aboleth sleeper agent secretly bent on trying to bend the rest of humanity to the old masters' will. In this possible case Aroden may not have KNOWN he was a sleeper agent.

Grand Lodge

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KtA wrote:

If it's genetic -- inheritable -- it doesn't matter that it was put there by artificial means. Once it's in the population, it's there.

Azlanti genes should mean better survival (higher Con) and likely a mate-choice advantage as well (higher Cha).

Elves apparently evolve via some form of Lamarckian evolution. Drop a bunch of desert elves in the tundra and you'll end up with a community of snow elves. If the snow elves start worshipping demons and doing bad things to babies, they'll turn into drow.

Oh, and there is an insane amount of evidence that intelligent design is a legit thing in a bunch of cases. Just ask Lamashtu.

I guess my point is that Darwinian evolution clearly isn't the only game in town on Golarion, and you sometimes have to play a little fast and loose with real world examples of science, religion, ethics, historical advancement, and the pace of technological development in order to wrap your head around it all.

Grand Lodge

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TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:
RJGrady wrote:
If I want to do Ancient Rome, I'll write up one of the human ethnicities that way. Setting aside the unfortunate implications of turning "exotic cultures" into non-humans, Drow are not human, and therefore turning them into a kind of human seems like wasted potential to me.

This. This This This This This.

This is why I LIKE the humano-centrism of Golarion. Give non-human races their own non-human cultures. Thank you Paizo.

+1 to this. I personally like letting monsters be monsters, so heroes can have something to fight. Once you start blurring the lines between "people" and "monsters" you start opening up all sorts of unfortunate implications.

Making aliens that are actually alien and giving me some blue & orange morality to work with is a lot harder to pull off, and I really appreciate it

Grand Lodge

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Detect Magic wrote:
Conan meets Star Trek isn't really my bag, dig?

Conan met a space alien once. It was the slave of a magical sorcerer. It flew all the way from the planet Yag.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Aberrant Templar wrote:


+1 to this. I personally like letting monsters be monsters, so heroes can have something to fight. Once you start blurring the lines between "people" and "monsters" you start opening up all sorts of unfortunate implications.

Making aliens that are actually alien and giving me some blue & orange morality to work with is a lot harder to pull off, and I really appreciate it

Apparently, typing the phrase "unfortunate implications" is like casting a gate spell for a troper. :)


Khelavraa wrote:
His looking after humanity can be played both ways. Aroden raised a potent artifact of aboleth magic and founded the greatest city on the face of modern Golarion around it, which makes him look more like an aboleth sleeper agent secretly bent on trying to bend the rest of humanity to the old masters' will. In this possible case Aroden may not have KNOWN he was a sleeper agent.

... aaaaaaaaaactually - I don't know if you care, feel free to ignore if you don't - it's been noted by James Jacobs that the Starstone wasn't an Aboleth artifact. It was summoned by aboleth magic, yeah, but that was an accident. They didn't want the Starstone - its arrival was an unintended consequence (and they're really peeved that more gods have spawned - they hate gods). It just happened to be in the area where their magic "space rock summoning epic spell" (tm) was aimed. Which is pretty interesting.


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Aberrant Templar wrote:
Detect Magic wrote:
Conan meets Star Trek isn't really my bag, dig?
Conan met a space alien once. It was the slave of a magical sorcerer. It flew all the way from the planet Yag.

The Tower of The Elephant is a freakin' boss story.


Tacticslion wrote:
... aaaaaaaaaactually - I don't know if you care, feel free to ignore if you don't - it's been noted by James Jacobs that the Starstone wasn't an Aboleth artifact. It was summoned by aboleth magic, yeah, but that was an accident. They didn't want the Starstone - its arrival was an unintended consequence (and they're really peeved that more gods have spawned - they hate gods). It just happened to be in the area where their magic "space rock summoning epic spell" (tm) was aimed. Which is pretty interesting.

True enough, but I didn't say it was an aboleth artifact just that it was of their magic. That is exactly what James Jacobs and the recently released Mythic Realms said; the Starstone is "a combination of starstuff, aboleth magic, god blood, and Golarion's scar tissue, among other things."

Not that I am even a proponent of Aroden doing this for some evil purpose. But he wasn't any more "good" than he was "evil" (thus the LN alignment). He was Azlanti, and the Azlanti owed most everything they were or achieved to the Aboleth.

My point: Aroden comes off as arrogant, and if you look skeptically at him, he is even suspect in some ways - This is one of the great things about him. This creates good opportunities for schisms, heresies, and conflicts within the story. Otherwise he is simply background for Cheliax, Taldor, and a device to remove prophecy / add free will for characters.

I like adding in strange bits like this and letting my players squirm as they try to decide what is real.

Grand Lodge

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RJGrady wrote:
Aberrant Templar wrote:


+1 to this. I personally like letting monsters be monsters, so heroes can have something to fight. Once you start blurring the lines between "people" and "monsters" you start opening up all sorts of unfortunate implications.

Making aliens that are actually alien and giving me some blue & orange morality to work with is a lot harder to pull off, and I really appreciate it

Apparently, typing the phrase "unfortunate implications" is like casting a gate spell for a troper. :)

That's because TV Tropes ruin your life :-)


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Aberrant Templar wrote:
RJGrady wrote:
Aberrant Templar wrote:


+1 to this. I personally like letting monsters be monsters, so heroes can have something to fight. Once you start blurring the lines between "people" and "monsters" you start opening up all sorts of unfortunate implications.

Making aliens that are actually alien and giving me some blue & orange morality to work with is a lot harder to pull off, and I really appreciate it

Apparently, typing the phrase "unfortunate implications" is like casting a gate spell for a troper. :)
That's because TV Tropes ruin your life :-)

And I can imagine fewer implications worse than making the asian culture elves or the nordic culture Dwarves or what have you, or god forbid, the tribal analogues be Orcs. Just let the real-world-cultural-analogue human ethnicities be human, and come up with original cultures for the non-human races.

Grand Lodge

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TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:
The Tower of The Elephant is a freakin' boss story.

Easily one of my favorites.

I also love the Kull of Atlantis story, The Skull of Silence. Which is the one where Kull's entire stated motivation for riding into the forbidden temple of death and poking the ancient world-ending evil from beyond reality with a stick to see what happens ... is that he's bored.


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TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:
Aberrant Templar wrote:
RJGrady wrote:
Aberrant Templar wrote:


+1 to this. I personally like letting monsters be monsters, so heroes can have something to fight. Once you start blurring the lines between "people" and "monsters" you start opening up all sorts of unfortunate implications.

Making aliens that are actually alien and giving me some blue & orange morality to work with is a lot harder to pull off, and I really appreciate it

Apparently, typing the phrase "unfortunate implications" is like casting a gate spell for a troper. :)
That's because TV Tropes ruin your life :-)
And I can imagine fewer implications worse than making the asian culture elves or the nordic culture Dwarves or what have you, or god forbid, the tribal analogues be Orcs. Just let the real-world-cultural-analogue human ethnicities be human, and come up with original cultures for the non-human races.

While I mostly agree with this, it's kind of hard to really do this with PC races. After all...it's pretty difficult to play your character in a truly alien fashion week after week, and it's often easier to fall back on familiar tropes.


TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:
And I can imagine fewer implications worse than making the asian culture elves or the nordic culture Dwarves or what have you, or god forbid, the tribal analogues be Orcs. Just let the real-world-cultural-analogue human ethnicities be human, and come up with original cultures for the non-human races.

Heh, I don't know why but for some reason this reminds me of one of my friend's homebrew worlds back in 1st Ed D&D. The empire builders were the Lawful Evil orcs. Humans were largely tribal (places in the border of faery had knights and such, but that was the influence of the fae) and the primary source of slaves for the orcs. The elves and dwarves were the ruling races of faery and loosely banded with free humans to topple the evil orc empire.


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Khelavraa wrote:
Heh, I don't know why but for some reason this reminds me of one of my friend's homebrew worlds back in 1st Ed D&D. The empire builders were the Lawful Evil orcs...

Well, to be fair, orcs were originally - at least in AD&D 2nd Ed - Lawful Evil in alignment... (& Hence the whole antagonism between the goblin and orc pantheons: both were LE & "exiled" to the same outer plane [=Acheron] where they were in competition with each other.) In D&D 3rd Ed & onwards, the alignment of orcs were given as Chaotic Evil.

Just an aside...

Dark Archive

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LE Orcs made good 'Klingons,' all honor-obsessed and warlike and survival of the fittest, believing that the weak deserved their fates (kind of like modern folk who believe that poor people or sick or disabled or homeless people deserve their situations).

Now, that role falls more to hobgoblins, I guess, and orcs are just kind of meandering menaces, like gnolls.

I think it might have been more on-theme to have hobgoblins switch to CE, like their goblin and bugbear kin, and keep orcs LE, so that the more generally used orcs could have a little more design space. (Between goblins, gnolls and bugbears, the game wasn't really hurting for an iconic CE race anyway...) LE Orcs could be anywhere from opportunistic brutes to Klingons to highbrow philosophers who claim they are doing weaker races a favor by subjugating them and providing the lazy bums with purpose and direction, instead of the kind of directionless bags of XP they've been relegated to.

(That's more of a 'things that changed in 3rd edition' thing than a Pathfinder thing, 'though.)


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Aberrant Templar wrote:
Detect Magic wrote:
Conan meets Star Trek isn't really my bag, dig?
Conan met a space alien once. It was the slave of a magical sorcerer. It flew all the way from the planet Yag.

There's also a high-tech lost city -- lit by "radium gems" and surviving on scientifically manufactured food -- in one story ("Xuthal of the Dusk" aka "The Slithering Shadow").


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Set wrote:
LE Orcs made good 'Klingons,' all honor-obsessed and warlike and survival of the fittest, believing that the weak deserved their fates (kind of like modern folk who believe that poor people or sick or disabled or homeless people deserve their situations).

Or those who see attempted murder as survival of the fittest.


samuraixsithlord wrote:

I feel that they could have done the Drow differently. They could have made them "bad guys" without making them Demon worshiping sadists that are all naturally evil.

The Drow started out as demon worshippers and since Paizo cannot use Lolth, they did what 1E Deities & Demigods suggests about the drow: They worship demon lords from the Abyss, Lolth being the most famous example.


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Quote:
What about Golarion bugs you?

That there are no Slaadi, illithid or Beholders.


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The only thing that bugs me about Glorion is that we haven't seen much more than the Inner Sea region besides Dragon Empires. I'd like to see me more of the world.


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voska66 wrote:


The only thing that bugs me about Glorion is that we haven't seen much more than the Inner Sea region besides Dragon Empires. I'd like to see me more of the world.

I'd really like to see more of the world as well. I only ever played in Faerun before PAthfinder came out, but every time I looked for more information, it only seemed like a 1/4 of the globe had really been touched upon.

I don't know how much of Greyhawk was explored (and I know Krynn is probably the most fleshed out of worlds), but I'd like to see Golarion have enough information published about that you don't feel a huge chunk is still 'mysterious and unexplored' unless that is the intention. Sarusan, as far as I can tell, is intentionally 'mysterious and unexplored' in part due to the lack of 'Psychic Magic' (as opposed to Psionics) for Pathfinder, but also because it's how they want Sarusan to exist. It's possible an AP will be set there once they delve into Psychic Magic, but that seems to be a long way off.

Arcadia especially, but Garund and Casmaron as well, need more exploration and information. The only things I really know of Casmaron (off the top of my head at least) is basically attached to the limtited information on Kelesh. Garund is arguably the next most 'explored' of the continents, and that's got a lot to do with the top half of Garund being apart of the 'Inner Sea' and the importance of the Osiriani empire. Arcadia has next to nothing known about it, apart from some mentions of Chelaxian colonies and that James Jacobs has stated Arcadia will be influenced by Native American (both North and South) history and culture.

Tian-Xia has a good deal of information, but there could always be more about it.

Shadow Lodge

Eh, I think they want Sarusan to be "mysterious and unexplored" regardless of psionics. After all, they haven't let their inability to publish psionics rules prevent them from giving information about a section of the Inner Sea Region that is supposed to have a strong presence of psionics.


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2d6+0 wrote:
Quote:
What about Golarion bugs you?
That there are no Slaadi, illithid or Beholders.

I too wish to shake off the shackles of closed content, but I fear the mythic IP of greater binding is nigh unbreakable.

(I mailed off the form on the back of a Pathfinder comic for my Charles Slaadlas' "Dynamic Proteanism" training program, but so far it hasn't arrived. Alas, I may have to follow Uncle Xanpetto's advice and summon the Blue Fairy to have a chance at becoming a real live protean.)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
2d6+0 wrote:
Quote:
What about Golarion bugs you?
That there are no Slaadi, illithid or Beholders.

I think it bother me more that there probably are, but we can't talk about them.


Tels wrote:
voska66 wrote:


The only thing that bugs me about Glorion is that we haven't seen much more than the Inner Sea region besides Dragon Empires. I'd like to see me more of the world.

I'd really like to see more of the world as well. I only ever played in Faerun before PAthfinder came out, but every time I looked for more information, it only seemed like a 1/4 of the globe had really been touched upon.

Arcadia especially, but Garund and Casmaron as well, need more exploration and information. The only things I really know of Casmaron (off the top of my head at least) is basically attached to the limtited information on Kelesh. Garund is arguably the next most 'explored' of the continents, and that's got a lot to do with the top half of Garund being apart of the 'Inner Sea' and the importance of the Osiriani empire. Arcadia has next to nothing known about it, apart from some mentions of Chelaxian colonies and that James Jacobs has stated Arcadia will be influenced by Native American (both North and South) history and culture.

Tian-Xia has a good deal of information, but there could always be more about it.

It seems Golarion is becoming another Forgotten Realms, with every thinly disguised human culture found in real life being shoe-horned in. How about leaving a huge blank area to be developed by each individual DM as they originally intended with Sembia in the Forgotten Realms?


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Abyssal Lord wrote:
Tels wrote:
voska66 wrote:


The only thing that bugs me about Glorion is that we haven't seen much more than the Inner Sea region besides Dragon Empires. I'd like to see me more of the world.

I'd really like to see more of the world as well. I only ever played in Faerun before PAthfinder came out, but every time I looked for more information, it only seemed like a 1/4 of the globe had really been touched upon.

Arcadia especially, but Garund and Casmaron as well, need more exploration and information. The only things I really know of Casmaron (off the top of my head at least) is basically attached to the limtited information on Kelesh. Garund is arguably the next most 'explored' of the continents, and that's got a lot to do with the top half of Garund being apart of the 'Inner Sea' and the importance of the Osiriani empire. Arcadia has next to nothing known about it, apart from some mentions of Chelaxian colonies and that James Jacobs has stated Arcadia will be influenced by Native American (both North and South) history and culture.

Tian-Xia has a good deal of information, but there could always be more about it.

It seems Golarion is becoming another Forgotten Realms, with every thinly disguised human culture found in real life being shoe-horned in. How about leaving a huge blank area to be developed by each individual DM as they originally intended with Sembia in the Forgotten Realms?

I dunno...If you like blank areas on the map, you can easily do that by just reinventing a nation/scrubbing it from existence in homebrew. If you want to see how Pathfinder treats Arcadia, or Casmaron, etc, it's you need a CS book.

I would rather have a surplus of information to pick and choose from, than not enough.

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