Detect Magic |
What spell level would you estimate this to be?
Holy Water Bomb
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Cleric ?, Inquisitor ?
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: See text
Duration: Instantenous
Saving Throw: See text
You hurl a vial of holy water, which bursts into a radiant flame.
When you cast this spell, make a ranged touch attack against one target within range. If the creature struck is an undead or evil outsider, it takes 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Each round thereafter, it may attempt a Reflex save to quench the flames which consume it; failure results in another 1d6 points of damage.
Undead or evil outsiders adjacent to the primary target of this spell are dealt 1d8 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +10). A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half.
Edit: Bolded for emphasis.
Darkstrom |
What spell level would you estimate this to be?
Holy Water Bomb
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Cleric ?, Inquisitor ?
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: See text
Duration: Instantenous
Saving Throw: See textYou hurl a vial of holy water, which bursts into a radiant flame.
When you cast this spell, make a ranged touch attack against one target within range. If the creature struck is an undead or evil outsider, it takes 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). On its next turn it is dealt an additional 1d6 damage as it continue to burn.
Undead or evil outsiders adjacent to the primary target of this spell are dealt 1d8 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +10). A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half.
I'd be tempted to just leave it at 3 or I'd hesitantly bump it up to 4. It requires a specific type: evil outsider, undead. Combined with the fact that it's a single target attack with a smaller subeffect makes it less useful in most circumstances vs. Fireball which affects everything (and can have its damage type changed via metamagic or class feature).
Clarification: My strongest instinct is to post it at level 3.
LazarX |
Detect Magic wrote:I'd be tempted to just leave it at 3 or I'd hesitantly bump it up to 4. It requires a specific type: evil outsider, undead. Combined with the fact that it's a single target attack with a smaller subeffect makes it less useful in most circumstances vs. Fireball which affects everything (and can have its damage type changed via metamagic or class feature).What spell level would you estimate this to be?
Holy Water Bomb
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Cleric ?, Inquisitor ?
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: See text
Duration: Instantenous
Saving Throw: See textYou hurl a vial of holy water, which bursts into a radiant flame.
When you cast this spell, make a ranged touch attack against one target within range. If the creature struck is an undead or evil outsider, it takes 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). On its next turn it is dealt an additional 1d6 damage as it continue to burn.
Undead or evil outsiders adjacent to the primary target of this spell are dealt 1d8 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +10). A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half.
ON the other hand, it's damage type has no resistances, no saving throw for the primary target, and it does additional damage which will force a ooncentration check if the target is a spellcaster.
I'd call it 4th level.
Khuldar |
I'd be tempted to just leave it at 3 or I'd hesitantly bump it up to 4. It requires a specific type: evil outsider, undead. Combined with the fact that it's a single target attack with a smaller subeffect makes it less useful in most circumstances vs. Fireball which affects everything (and can have its damage type changed via metamagic or class feature).
3rd sounds about right. It's a damage spell, which clerics should not be the best at. It does focus on things they should be fighting. You don't need to worry about the splash on your friends, which is nice. I think it would be under powered for a 4th level spell.
As a splashy/bomby spell, you might also want to add alchemists to the list of casters.
Darkstrom |
Darkstrom wrote:Detect Magic wrote:I'd be tempted to just leave it at 3 or I'd hesitantly bump it up to 4. It requires a specific type: evil outsider, undead. Combined with the fact that it's a single target attack with a smaller subeffect makes it less useful in most circumstances vs. Fireball which affects everything (and can have its damage type changed via metamagic or class feature).What spell level would you estimate this to be?
Holy Water Bomb
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Cleric ?, Inquisitor ?
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: See text
Duration: Instantenous
Saving Throw: See textYou hurl a vial of holy water, which bursts into a radiant flame.
When you cast this spell, make a ranged touch attack against one target within range. If the creature struck is an undead or evil outsider, it takes 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). On its next turn it is dealt an additional 1d6 damage as it continue to burn.
Undead or evil outsiders adjacent to the primary target of this spell are dealt 1d8 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +10). A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half.
ON the other hand, it's damage type has no resistances, no saving throw for the primary target, and it does additional damage which will force a ooncentration check if the target is a spellcaster.
I'd call it 4th level.
The fact that it is limited to two specific types evens the resistances out. There are also other lower level abilities (i.e.: scorching ray) which also don't allow saving throws (and can have their damage type substituted situationally).
It doesn't compare to most direct damage...
Oh crap. I just remembered we're talking about clerics and not sorc/wiz. I'm on board with level 4 and possibly level 5 given that most cleric spells are 1d/2 levels
Making it 1d6 or 1d8/2 levels would keep it at a 3rd for me.
Detect Magic |
Darkstrom: Yea, no intention of replacing fireball. In the spirit of undead-slaying, this spell is intended to add some Castlevania flavor to the cleric/inquisitor spell list. I intend to make several similar spells for other sub-weapons (daggers, axes, crosses).
LazarX: Were the damage to be made half-fire and half-untyped (divine), as per flame strike, would you drop it to 3rd or lower? As of now, I was basing it more off of holy smite or spear of purity, though even more specialized (only affecting undead or evil outsiders).
Darkstrom |
Darkstrom: Yea, no intention of replacing fireball. In the spirit of undead-slaying, this spell is intended to add some Castlevania flavor to the cleric/inquisitor spell list. I intend to make several similar spells for other sub-weapons (daggers, axes, crosses).
LazarX: Were the damage to be made half-fire and half-untyped (divine), as per flame strike, would you drop it to 3rd or lower? As of now, I was basing it more off of holy smite or spear of purity, though even more specialized (only affecting undead or evil outsiders).
I'm coming off pretty wishy-washy but I'm at work and not able to really look easily at d20pfsrd or PRD (blocked at work). I also have a group of players who disdain clerics generally.
I did go dig around in the core rulebook app on my phone. Searing Light is ranged touch attack that deals 1d8/2 or 1d8/level (to undead) and is level 3. Searing Light is also medium range. Given that your ability only works on undead/evil outsiders I'm back leaning to level 3.
However if it were my game I'd also be concerned about how common these types are in my game. If non-undead and evil outsider enemies are rare I'd be inclined to bump it up or call for the damage to be lowered (given that the specialization towards those types is no longer as great a weakness).
cartmanbeck RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Darkstrom: Yea, no intention of replacing fireball. In the spirit of undead-slaying, this spell is intended to add some Castlevania flavor to the cleric/inquisitor spell list. I intend to make several similar spells for other sub-weapons (daggers, axes, crosses).
LazarX: Were the damage to be made half-fire and half-untyped (divine), as per flame strike, would you drop it to 3rd or lower? As of now, I was basing it more off of holy smite or spear of purity, though even more specialized (only affecting undead or evil outsiders).
I think the half fire/half untyped would make more sense. You could still have it be holy fire that only deals damage to undead or evil outsiders. I like it, and yeah it should definitely go on the Alchemist's extract list also.
Detect Magic |
The spell also consumes a vial of holy water (25 gp). Not a very steep price to be paid, but a price none the less.
Considering dropping the damage down to 1d6 (or maybe 1d8) per two levels. That might bring it down a spell level or two (really want to see this one in-game, and since not too many games get to high levels, I'm inclined to make it a lower level).
Omelite |
What spell level would you estimate this to be?
Holy Water Bomb
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Cleric ?, Inquisitor ?
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: See text
Duration: Instantenous
Saving Throw: See textYou hurl a vial of holy water, which bursts into a radiant flame.
When you cast this spell, make a ranged touch attack against one target within range. If the creature struck is an undead or evil outsider, it takes 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Each round thereafter, it may attempt a Reflex save to quench the flames which consume it; failure results in another 1d6 points of damage.
Undead or evil outsiders adjacent to the primary target of this spell are dealt 1d8 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +10). A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half.
There are a few problems with the way the spell is written. First I'll say that I agree that this is a good 3rd level spell.
But the problem is that you don't define the 1D8 + 1/level damage as splash damage. Thus, if you miss the original target of the spell with your ranged touch, by the way this is written it takes no damage rather than taking the 1D8 + 1/level damage that seems to be equivalent to splash damage.
I'd re-write it thusly:
Holy Water Bomb
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Cleric ?, Inquisitor ?
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range touch
Target one touched vial of holy water
Duration see text
Saving Throw see text, Will negates (object); Spell Resistance yes (object)
You enhance a vial of holy water such that it bursts into a radiant flame when thrown.
A direct hit by this enhanced flask of holy water deals 1D6 points of damage per caster level to an undead creature or an evil outsider. Such a creature must make a reflex save or be consumed by holy flames, which deal 1D6 points of damage each round at the beginning of the creature's turn. Such a creature gets a new saving throw at the end of their turn each round, with success ending the ongoing effect. This effect lasts 1 round per caster level or until a successful reflex save is made to end the effect.
Each undead creature or evil outsider within 5 feet of the point where the vial hits takes 1D8 + 1 point of damage per caster level from the splash. This splash damage is halved on a successful reflex save. The range increment of this vial increases to 15ft.
The normal restrictions for using a vial of holy water against incorporeal creatures still apply.
As part of the action of casting this spell, you may attempt to throw the vial at a creature within range as a free action. The vial reverts to a normal vial of holy water if not thrown before the end of your next turn.
Omelite |
The spell also consumes a vial of holy water (25 gp). Not a very steep price to be paid, but a price none the less.
Considering dropping the damage down to 1d6 (or maybe 1d8) per two levels. That might bring it down a spell level or two (really want to see this one in-game, and since not too many games get to high levels, I'm inclined to make it a lower level).
If you made it 1D8 per two levels for the main effect it could probably be a level 2 spell, considering it has a material component and is only effective against such a limited subset of creatures.
Detect Magic |
If you made it 1D8 per two levels for the main effect it could probably be a level 2 spell, considering it has a material component and is only effective against such a limited subset of creatures.
My thoughts exactly. Seems in line with spear of purity.
Omelite |
Omelite wrote:If you made it 1D8 per two levels for the main effect it could probably be a level 2 spell, considering it has a material component and is only effective against such a limited subset of creatures.My thoughts exactly. Seems in line with spear of purity.
Ah yes, seeing that reminds me of something else. The splash effect should probably be 1D8 + 1 per level (maximum +10) and the main effect should be 1D8 per two levels (maximum 5D8). Then I'd say it's a balanced second level spell. Shouldn't be much of a problem if you're hoping to see this more in the earlier levels anyway, as it doesn't max out until level 10.
cartmanbeck RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Detect Magic wrote:If you made it 1D8 per two levels for the main effect it could probably be a level 2 spell, considering it has a material component and is only effective against such a limited subset of creatures.The spell also consumes a vial of holy water (25 gp). Not a very steep price to be paid, but a price none the less.
Considering dropping the damage down to 1d6 (or maybe 1d8) per two levels. That might bring it down a spell level or two (really want to see this one in-game, and since not too many games get to high levels, I'm inclined to make it a lower level).
I think if you leave it as 1d6 per level, it's a fair 3rd level spell. Don't lower it down to 1d6 per every two levels, that's too weak, even for a 2nd level spell I'd say.
I agree with Omelite's assessment except that if you make the damage to the main target a d6, then just make the splash damage be the minimum possible damage, just like with any other splash weapon. So it would read:
Each undead creature or evil outsider within 5 feet of the point where the vial hits takes 1 point of damage per caster level from the splash. This splash damage is halved on a successful reflex save. The range increment of this vial increases to 15ft.
Also: this means that if an alchemist/cleric used this spell, he'd get to add his Intelligence mod to the damage on every creature, since he adds his Int to all splash weapons. Is this the build you were thinking about for this spell? :-D
Detect Magic |
Also: this means that if an alchemist/cleric used this spell, he'd get to add his Intelligence mod to the damage on every creature, since he adds his Int to all splash weapons. Is this the build you were thinking about for this spell? :-D
No, I hadn't intended on playing such a character, though it could be interesting to play such a combination.
I've never seen anyone bother with using holy water, or much less preparing or scribing any scrolls of bless water. In D&D (and thus Pathfinder), a vampire isn't going to take very much damage from a vial of holy water. Maybe a scratch, but it'll heal the moment after the damage is dealt. Yet, in real world mythology vampires are devastated by holy water (as are demons). So, it seems strange that it is so rarely considered in the game world.
Note the holy water strapped to this hunter's belt.
I designed the spell to add some significance to the previously mentioned spell, and to the item itself.
Detect Magic |
Revised:
Holy Water Blast
School: Transmutation [Good]; Level: Inquisitor 3
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, M (vial of holy water), DF
Range: See text
Area: See text
Duration: Instantenous
Saving Throw: See text; Spell Resistance: Yes
You hurl a vial of holy water, which bursts into a radiant flame.
When you cast this spell, make a ranged touch attack against one target within 20 feet. If the creature struck is an undead or evil outsider, it takes 1d6 damage per caster level (maximum 10d6). Each round thereafter, it may attempt a Reflex save to quench the flames which consume it; failure results in another 1d6 points of damage.
Undead or evil outsiders adjacent to the primary target of this spell are dealt 1d8 points of damage +1 per caster level (maximum +10), as part of the splash. A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half.
Half the damage dealt by this spell is fire damage, but the other half results directly from divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by resistance to fire-based attacks.
If you are using the judgement class feature, you can cast this spell as a 20-foot line. All undead or evil outsiders within the line take 1d8 damage per caster level (maximum 10d8). A successful Reflex save reduces this damage by half. Each round thereafter, it may attempt a Reflex save to quench the flames which consume it; failure results in another 1d8 points of damage.