This thread is a GM Reference thread for Part 5 of the Jade Regent Adventure Path. Links for the individual threads for each part are as follow:
The Brinewall Legacy (Part 1)
Night of Frozen Shadows (Part 2)
The Hungry Storm (Part 3)
Forest of Spirits (Part 4)
Tide of Honor (Part 5)
The Empty Throne (Part 6)

Reading through 'Tide of Honor', there are a few places where it's suggested that the players whip out the Amatatsu Seal to help support their otherwise outlandish claims. ("Yeah, this chick who is from a far-off land, neither of her parents ever set foot in Minkai, speaks your language with a strange accent, and hasn't suffered under the Jade Regent like you all have happens to be the last blood heir to your empire and deserves your fealty. Oh, and if she dies, me --a foreign, dark-skinned, round-eyed dwarf with a CHR of 8-- has a claim to the throne. What can I say? Destiny's a harsh mistress.")

In another, to get to the treasure requires the Seal to uncork the hidden room. I read this and it caused a bit of a problem for me because according to the previous books, popping out the Seal sent out a giant:

Dear Five Storms,

Here I am. Please send ninjas.

All the best,

Amatatsu scion

And that could happen anywhere along the trek. The idea of waving the unblocked Seal around right in Minkai makes me think, "Suddenly, ninjas," and "Suddenly, armies," and "Suddenly, oni," and "Suddenly, armies of ninja oni." Basically, after being told to hide away the Seal for so long, there has to be a believable reason why uncorking it on the Five Storms doorstep doesn't lead to immediate 'scry and fry.'

What I suggest is that going back to 'Forest of Spirits,' and having Akumi (the bonzai kami) provide another service to the party. When the caravan meets the group of kami, they inform the party that the glade is a spot of tranquility in the world, and the Five Storms can not spy on what occurs there. If Akumi travels with the party, he is allowed to take a fragment of that tranquility with him, granting the same kind of cloak to the Seal, so long as it is unboxed within 10 feet of his tree. For my mind, this gives a believable reason why the party can now take the Seal out sometimes without having to deal with more ninjas than are typically hunting them.

Well, Fireballed, you've certainly come up with an excellent solution, and barring something somehow better, the Akumi method will definitely be my handwave of choice.

Reading through 'Tide of Honor', there are a few places where it's suggested that the players whip out the Amatatsu Seal to help support their otherwise outlandish claims. ("Yeah, this chick who is from a far-off land, neither of her parents ever set foot in Minkai, speaks your language with a strange accent, and hasn't suffered under the Jade Regent like you all have happens to be the last blood heir to your empire and deserves your fealty. Oh, and if she dies, me --a foreign, dark-skinned, round-eyed dwarf with a CHR of 8-- has a claim to the throne. What can I say? Destiny's a harsh mistress.")

In another, to get to the treasure requires the Seal to uncork the hidden room. I read this and it caused a bit of a problem for me because according to the previous books, popping out the Seal sent out a giant:

Dear Five Storms,

Here I am. Please send ninjas.

All the best,

Amatatsu scion

And that could happen anywhere along the trek. The idea of waving the unblocked Seal around right in Minkai makes me think, "Suddenly, ninjas," and "Suddenly, armies," and "Suddenly, oni," and "Suddenly, armies of ninja oni." Basically, after being told to hide away the Seal for so long, there has to be a believable reason why uncorking it on the Five Storms doorstep doesn't lead to immediate 'scry and fry.'

What I suggest is that going back to 'Forest of Spirits,' and having Akumi (the bonzai kami) provide another service to the party. When the caravan meets the group of kami, they inform the party that the glade is a spot of tranquility in the world, and the Five Storms can not spy on what occurs there. If Akumi travels with the party, he is allowed to take a fragment of that tranquility with him, granting the same kind of cloak to the Seal, so long as it is unboxed within 10 feet of his tree. For my mind, this gives a believable reason why the party can now take the Seal out sometimes without having to deal with more ninjas than are typically hunting them.

Definitely an awesome idea. Though, considering the Five Storms do send one of the most feared assassins in Minkai after you over the course of the adventure, and the climax of the adventure is a Fire Yai, two Atamahuta, and possibly some ettins trying to tear down your new base of operations--the one place in the adventure where unboxing the Seal is absolutely required--I wouldn't necessarily say the adventure assumes you unbox it without consequence.

Dear Five Storms,

Here I am. Please send ninjas.

All the best,

Amatatsu scion

I couldn't stop laughing for about five minutes. XD

But I think what Revan said makes sense. The consequence of unboxing it in your HQ is the attack at the end of the book. The consequence of unboxing it on the road is that they've sent one of their most deadly ninja after them. At this point, the oni know you're here, and they know where you are. Stealth isn't going to work for long any more anyways, and now strength, speed, and the support of the people are your best defences.

But I think what Revan said makes sense. The consequence of unboxing it in your HQ is the attack at the end of the book. The consequence of unboxing it on the road is that they've sent one of their most deadly ninja after them. At this point, the oni know you're here, and they know where you are. Stealth isn't going to work for long any more anyways, and now strength, speed, and the support of the people are your best defences.

It's the scale of the response.

It's the difference between, "Hmm... I know they're out there somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Let's hire some more ninja to try and find them, although, being the independent and shadowy figures they are the ninja probably won't tell me anything until the job is done. And their previous attempts don't exactly fill me with confidence. Let's take a more personal interest in it this time and also send a few patrols of oni around: maybe they'll get lucky and find some clues to follow. Since I don't know where they are exactly, I can't use my overwhelming force unless I get some solid leads. Best to keep my forces close, ready to act if some kind of popular uprising happens."

vs.

"Oh, *there* they are. Inside *my* country. Geez, I'm really going to have to execute my Northern Border commander for letting them get past him. Let's see... what resources do they have? They just arrived, so they'll probably be busy recruiting allies for a level or two. What resources do I have?

"Oh yeah... an entire empire.

"Hey General! Send the 3rd, 4th, and 6th legions to the north. Park them here and have them detain, arrest, and murder anyone who looks like a PC. Yo! Chancellor! Hire a whole ninja clan --no, make that two-- and send them to these co-ordinates, same orders, but leave out the detain and arrest part. You! Court Wizards! Can you guys scry? Good. Can you teleport? Good. Your continued employment depends on your ability to 'scry and fry' this location.

"The one who brings me their heads --bodies most definitely not part of the deal-- gets to take the long weekend off. Okay, I'll throw in two free passes to Oni World, as well as a nice plaque to hang on your wall. Trust me, it's a very handsome plaque."

True.

Perhaps they're simply overconfident?

Hi all.

I just wanted to say this is the best of the five modules in the AP so far. The way the different subplots interlace, the absence of a big dungeoncrawl (always a minus for me), the intensity of encounters such as the last, or the magnificient NPCs, make it my favourite with difference. Kudos to Mr. Leaty for the module.

Maybe some will complain that the module is a bit short on XPs, but usually getting enough XPs is accomplished by simply adding random encounters unrelated to the history, or just extending the dungeoncrawls eternally. That's what happened in Forest of Spirits - Level after level of monsters waiting in their rooms for the PCs to get to them just to reach the XP cap. Not here, sir. A true work of art of an adventure. I sure hope the last one is half this good, at least.

** spoiler omitted **

Whoops! I'd give her mind fog, but you can put any spell you like in there.

Thanx alot for your input. Your suggestion suits her better - regarding her inclination, profession and attitude.

I'd love to see a developer address the concerns The Fireballed Mage has raised, even if they are three months old.

The only time that "requires" the PCs to remove the Amatatsu seal from the warding box is to open the weapons cache in area A13. The seal is mentioned at other times as something the PCs can use to prove their claim, but it is not necessary - in most cases, having Ameiko with them serves the same purpose.

In any case, opening the warding box has the potential to alert the Jade Regent - if his seers are actively searching for the seal at that time. The seal radiates powerful magic, but it doesn't automatically set off an alarm in Five Storms HQ.

That said, some of the enemies the PCs face are sent precisely because the Jade Regent knows something is up - Kaibuninsho and the yai at the end of the adventure.

If the PCs constantly unbox the Amatatsu seal throughout the adventure, it would likely elicit a greater response from the Jade Regent, just as it would if they loudly proclaimed that they were the true heirs to the Jade Throne in every town in Minkai. The adventure assumes the PCs are trying to maintain at least something of a low profile. If they do the opposite (such as by waving around the seal every chance they get), you'll need to modify the events in the adventure to accommodate those actions.

From what I read of the last book, the 'scry and fry' response does not seem to really in the arsenal of the Jade Regent and his closest companions. Not saying they don't have access to a super wizard to do this for them, just saying it's not part of their repertoire as it is at the moment.

I think my 'personal' cost for using the seal, will be to have the Jade Regent instead send a portion of his forces to just outright obliterate and otherwise be terrible to the settlement nearest to where the PC's use the seal. Punishing them for 'harboring a traitor' to the throne. Especially once they are in Minkai!

As an alternative, you could also reduce the 'Rebellion points' in the final book by 1 for each successive use of the seal once in Minkai, as the population is forced to suffer under an increasingly paranoid Jade Regent.

My group had to pop the cork on the seal in book 2 for a resurrection, and I subsequently increased the parties Notoriety Points for such an event. Kimandatsu also received a notice from Jade Regent to capture Ameiko, and also used it as a chance to plant some more evidence that would give the PC's some more information about the 'big bads'.

Well, there is an dissonance between the events which destroyed Brinewall ( the seal gets taken out only once and an army is sent around the world ) plus that the Oni were alerted immediately when the seal was found in The Brinewall Legacy, compared to what Rob just said about the seal being used sparingly in Minkai itself.

My best work-around is that the Oni were especially vigilant a few decades ago and mostly have grown lax... with Kimandatsu in Kalsgard being the exception. She surely sent out word of the seals reappearance to the Oni in Minkai, but the Jade Regent is young and inexperienced and Anamurumon is distracted by Renshii Meida working against him at court.

Just in case I didn't "find" those: Are they stats available for Itsuru's Nine Pawns and Seinaru Heikiko's defensive forces?

Any suggestions beyond

Mr McCreary, did you have something in mind that was not put into the AP? :)

Thanx to all!

Just about to return to Jade regent with this chapter. Looking forward to it as it seems to be a lot more involved than the previous books and really seems to be the start of the story to reclaim the throne.

Anyone run it have advice for things to look out for or change / avoid?

This adventure has an amazing opportunity to get very sandboxy very quick. I can very much see my players finding out about the legends of the Seven Venoms Spring up north near Mt Kumijinja to parley with the naga in order to impress upon them why it's important to favor the "new Amatatsu heir" so that when she does come into power, she'll seek to include the naga as part of the Minkai Empire.

Anyone else have any ideas of what a adventuring party could come up with within the context of "Raising the Tide" against the oppressive regime of the Jade Regent?

Ooooo. A possible underwater alliance with the locathahs (and/or other underwater denizens) within Xidao?

Treating with the Aasimars of Tianjing? Their economy MUST be suffering with little to no imports coming from Minkai. How is that effecting their country? Tianjing is finally getting back to a self-reliant lifestyle after over a century of unprecedented support from Lung Wa. Still though, part of that self-reliant mentality has much to do with countries being WILLING to trade.

Just about to return to Jade regent with this chapter. Looking forward to it as it seems to be a lot more involved than the previous books and really seems to be the start of the story to reclaim the throne.

Anyone run it have advice for things to look out for or change / avoid?

My players just finished cleaning the bandits out of Seinaru Heikiko and loved it. They managed to find the secret entrance and fought in A4. It was fairly easy because they bottle necked everyone using the main door, but it is easy to see just how wrong it could have gone if they decided to fight in the courtyard.

Pit spells in the door creates a huge headache for most of the barbarians.

My players just finished cleaning the bandits out of Seinaru Heikiko and loved it. They managed to find the secret entrance and fought in A4. It was fairly easy because they bottle necked everyone using the main door, but it is easy to see just how wrong it could have gone if they decided to fight in the courtyard.

Pit spells in the door creates a huge headache for most of the barbarians.

So, why did the crew of the fortress not simply pull back and wait on the party coming after them? After all, it's the party storming the fortress and not the other way around.

Father Tully wrote:

My players just finished cleaning the bandits out of Seinaru Heikiko and loved it. They managed to find the secret entrance and fought in A4. It was fairly easy because they bottle necked everyone using the main door, but it is easy to see just how wrong it could have gone if they decided to fight in the courtyard.

Pit spells in the door creates a huge headache for most of the barbarians.

So, why did the crew of the fortress not simply pull back and wait on the party coming after them? After all, it's the party storming the fortress and not the other way around.

I switched out the barbarian leader with a new one (and put the old one on a pike in the courtyard). Players did an evil one shot with new characters working for the Jade Regent. Afterwards, the barbarian from the evil party went north and seized control of the soft bandits for the Jade Regent.

The bandits were terrified of ending up on pikes in the yard with their old boss, so half of them provided covering fire with bows while the other half attempted to jump the pit with their fair jump checks (only a few failed). Chain lightning and dragon's breath handled the archers nicely while the melee guys did a good job of cleaning up the barbarians that made the jump before pulling bows themselves.

Enjoying part one!! Party loved the riddle from Hatsue and Jiro!! Their dynamic and banter makes them very endearing (at least IMO)

Another +1 to Seinaru Heikiko, awesome design (my party snuck in at night using extended silences, cut a whole in the wall to get into the coutyard). Unfortunately (for them) they ran by the wood stacks, and so began the wood golem fight... which poured into the bath house.... which turned into a huge brawl.

Great fight, (although if the raiders use all their javelins (once the party lines up), that is some scaaarrry dmg, x10 raiders (at night) = 50d6 possibly. I do say that Gangasum seems a bit light on the damage dealing, (would be far better served to two hand that scimitar for massive damage!!) to provide a threat.

One party member (LG Cavalier wielding Suishen) Nat 1'd the fort save for Lycantrophy from Tos Katun, (who he ended up trading a few sultry words between combat roudns with). And as she ran away..... I figure she will be paying him a few 'night time visits' to ensure his were-tigerness... and for fun! (Now where did I put that ecology of weretigers book...)

The party loves the place ("We get our own mountain fortress?? And it comes with a bath house?!?! Why would we ever leave?!!?!??! It's like RavensCraeg all over again, except we are the ninja army!! "), so much that they don't even want to loot the place!!

Next session: They are wanting to hire druids/interior decorators, repairmen for the bathhouse, and bickering about who gets the cool carpets to place in their room and where to store their 'battlefield bling' and trophies.

Oh the joys on their faces as they build their 'secret hideout'.

I'm a bit afraid to run the assassin Ninja, as it will start another wave of book two paranoia; combined with their hatred of ninjas (Books two and four I'm looking at you!), I expect the three monkeys 'social' encounter to break out into a fight.

So far have gone through... twelve characters to get this far??

I'm trying to tie Yugureda Shosaito and his mercantile business to the Five Storms oni and the Jade Regent.

The questions I'm faced with is, Why do the oni need pearls? Why would they keep Shosaito alive? Why/How does Shosaito have oni under his employ?

In an extraplanar excessive mindset, I can see the oni needing the pearls somehow. But for what? My intention is to connect Shosaito to the powers-that-be by a thread not directly related. I like the separate story of the pearl merchant and O-Sayumi. I'm just looking for a LITTLE bit more.

Any ideas?

Why oni need pearls? They want everything in the material world, feel it, own it and corrupt it. What would make them more happy than corrupting "Queen of Gems" that is also symbol of love, protection, purity and wisdom. Why need so many pearls? From historical point of view I would say that they need corrupted pearls as lucky charm that will protect them (knights in middle ages often wore pearls for good luck and protection). or they could be preparing some sort of ritual to find Amatatsu heir using pearls. As Shosaito is maybe the pearl merchant of Minkai it is pretty logical to team up with him. I don't think Shosaito really cared about his pearls, they are merchandise for him.

Pathfinder novel Master of Devils spoilers:

Hopefully this helps you Bryan.

I think Shosaito could be tied financially to Anamurumon, that way you don't have to decide how to handle the pearls. Possibly big A sold him some arcane secrets or information in exchange for enough money to fund his 'grandson's' rise to fame and fortune? I doubt it was cheap to propel him into the spotlight in such a manner, even psudeo-Japanese cultures have a value for money even if their personal tenants do not proscribe amassing it. The ruling caste in particular(daimyo's and high ranking/landed samurai) would see some value in it.

As for the Ja-Noi,
Oni tend to not be particularly overt until they want to be, so it may be likely that Shosaito did not realize directly he was dealing with Oni. They are relatively capable tricksters, so perhaps the Ja-Noi under his employ are actually just vassals of big A sent to guard his cash cow. Or they were knowingly 'sold' as part of said financial agreement in full knowledge of Shosaito as added 'muscle'.

Question (and maybe this has been answered previously but..) Listed near the end of the Shadow Chess game fight, if one breaks the token they enlist the aid of Hatsue (the Sohei/Paladin of Irori) and references her nightmares/spirit talking to the pc's. And is again referenced as a possible avenue to inform the PC's to meet with Jiro again before the final attack, (or to inform them the attack is underway).

Are Hatsue's nightmares described in more detail in part of this book?? Or was it something that got cut out? Or maybe I'm just missing it...

As for Shosaito + Oni connection..

Sakkabe is mainly ruled by the yakuza (I believe I have this correct, referencing the Minkai section near the end). Maybe he is trying to set himself up as new governer de-facto ruler of the region, and the five storms would love to have another strong hand in the northern provinces.

Or you can have him be a large financier of Sikkutsu Senakka, who is the JR's main man in the north. (Looking at the lore he was very angry about missing out on some tax money and maybe Shosaito helped balance the books so Senakka gives him free reign). And the party can find some notes/records linking the two?

Question (and maybe this has been answered previously but..) Listed near the end of the Shadow Chess game fight, if one breaks the token they enlist the aid of Hatsue (the Sohei/Paladin of Irori) and references her nightmares/spirit talking to the pc's. And is again referenced as a possible avenue to inform the PC's to meet with Jiro again before the final attack, (or to inform them the attack is underway).

Are Hatsue's nightmares described in more detail in part of this book?? Or was it something that got cut out? Or maybe I'm just missing it...

Hatsue's nightmares are described in her description on page 8, though no details are given - it's just part of her background. But the shogi game and Hatsue's dream self are a plot point that ties her further into the adventure, and gives the PCs a chance to help a potential ally (as well as gain an XP award).

I'm having a metaplot story crisis.

SPOILERS

My party has just defeated the pearl merchant. Ameiko and other NPC's went to Egangoka to meet with the 3 Monkeys. Their legend is spreading. That coupled with the Jade Regent's oracle as well as the network of spies Anamurumon has, how are they not just seeking out the PC's and crushing them now?

I'll give my PCs this. They have been very careful NOT to be using the seal AND have been using anti-Scrying magic liberally. Still though. It's not the biggest country and should be obvious to the powers-that-be that rebels usually dwell to the north somewhere.

Someone sell me on why the JR and Anamueumon are NOT sending more powerful minions to destroy the PC's at the end of this book.

Thanks for any input!

They are some pretty powerful minions - a CR 16 encounter to deal with some level 13 PCs.
I think of the oni as very disunited - they keep information from one another and work for their own advancement.
Maybe Nigankona is a rival who's grown too strong, so Anamurumon has sent him to deal with the PCs, figuring he'll either kill them or die trying; either suits his ends.