The Hungry Storm (GM Reference)


Jade Regent

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Jason,

I enjoyed the balefull coven and under frozen stars.

I am currently running book 4 and thought that the trip from (that town with the fat prince) to (the spirited forest) ^_^ would be a great place for an adventure.

maybe something involving an abandoned town along the way or being harassed by a particularly sneaky and determined band of ninja or bandits.

just an idea. I built something into my game using the ninja from book 5 as a re-occoring vilain they will see again when they exit the spirited forest. but I think there is plenty of room for you and yours to develope something there.


Hi, this has probably been talked about before but I couldn't find it.

Anyway, I got into kind of a speechless moment last session, and even after thinking for days now can't really come up with a good explanation.

So in Iqaliat the Caravan learns that the Path of Aganhei is blocked by the "Hungry Storm".
However apparently the path straight north, right through the High Ice and directly leading to the "lair of the evil winter witch" who controls said storm is absolutely free?

That just seems totally constructed and meant to railroad them into "go north or don't go nowhere". I mean sure there has to be a reason for them to go after the Storm Tower and shut it off, but this one just feels... well railroady.

I fear I really only came up with the explanation "Well the Erutaki don't seem to know why only the Path seems to be blocked, and how far along it's way it is blocked, but they know that it's blocked at least for a part beyond Unaimo. So far none of their hunters has reported anything like that into one of the other directions."

I kinda want to come up with a better explanation here. It would seem right now that Katiyana is specifically targeting the Path of Aganhei, but that seems stupid and weird.

a) It draws attention to her while she doesn't have full control over the storm yet - Yup, the PCs for example.
b) It's off-season for travel anyway, so why? Testrun to see if she can? She could have picked any spot in the CotW where nobody even notices.
c) Even if it wasn't off-season. Why bother with the travellers. Once she controls the Storm she's going to freeze the entire World anyway. Or a large part of it at least.
d) Why in the name of Sithhud does she block the Path but does not use it to protect her own Stronghold, the Storm Tower? Make a 100 mile wide circle of neverending Blizzards around it, and nobody will ever bother her. People will in fact gladly take the Path of Aganhei to get around and away from that horrid place. She could probably even exempt a 10 mile radius around the tower if the storm would otherwise bother her.
e) Why not send it for Iqaliat and just freeze everyone in there to death for her precious obelisk? Of course the lack of the Obelisk here could mean she actually can't do that yet, but I was under the impression the Obelisks are needed to extend it's range beyond the Crown, not to use it where it already happens anyway.

I mean, I know the answer to most of them could be given as "If that was the case, the AP wouldn't happen/everyone would die/they'd be stuck forever" and that's true, but they seem like rather metagame reasons.
I want to give my villains some logical reasons for doing what they're doing, even if the PCs may never learn about them. It helps me play them and describe their actions more coherently and all. But here I just don't see it.

The Exchange

Quatar wrote:

Hi, this has probably been talked about before but I couldn't find it.

Anyway, I got into kind of a speechless moment last session, and even after thinking for days now can't really come up with a good explanation.

So in Iqaliat the Caravan learns that the Path of Aganhei is blocked by the "Hungry Storm".
However apparently the path straight north, right through the High Ice and directly leading to the "lair of the evil winter witch" who controls said storm is absolutely free?

That just seems totally constructed and meant to railroad them into "go north or don't go nowhere". I mean sure there has to be a reason for them to go after the Storm Tower and shut it off, but this one just feels... well railroady.

I fear I really only came up with the explanation "Well the Erutaki don't seem to know why only the Path seems to be blocked, and how far along it's way it is blocked, but they know that it's blocked at least for a part beyond Unaimo. So far none of their hunters has reported anything like that into one of the other directions."

I kinda want to come up with a better explanation here. It would seem right now that Katiyana is specifically targeting the Path of Aganhei, but that seems stupid and weird.

a) It draws attention to her while she doesn't have full control over the storm yet - Yup, the PCs for example.
b) It's off-season for travel anyway, so why? Testrun to see if she can? She could have picked any spot in the CotW where nobody even notices.
c) Even if it wasn't off-season. Why bother with the travellers. Once she controls the Storm she's going to freeze the entire World anyway. Or a large part of it at least.
d) Why in the name of Sithhud does she block the Path but does not use it to protect her own Stronghold, the Storm Tower? Make a 100 mile wide circle of neverending Blizzards around it, and nobody will ever bother her. People will in fact gladly take the Path of Aganhei to get around and away from that horrid place. She could probably even exempt a 10 mile radius around...

The Path of the Aganhei skirts the coldest part of the High Ice, the Boreal Expanse, so there would typically be more risk traveling the straight route, as well as being more isolated - fewer camps, fewer travelers. She would target the Path because that is where the highest concentration of people would be.

"Season of Travel" bit needs some fudging I think, we're told its "off season" as far back as Kalsgard, but we're never told when the "season" is. As it takes a long time (travel-wise) to get from book 2 to book 3, and the path over the high ice should take months by itself (owing to the incorrect travel time in Jade Regent vs. core rules speed for wagons overland). So there should be a window described in which its Ok to leave Kalsgard for the High Ice if they want to get across to Tian Xia.
The clues found in Tunuak's bore show Katiyana's plan for the storms if she's not dealt with, so its in the party's interest to deal with her before she gets too powerful.
What's lost in the text is the obelisks - there's no mechanism for them being placed or constructed and what their effect is on controlling the storms so far as I can tell, and that would have been a good bit of information to have. My group spent some time investigating the obelisks and I had to wing most of it.


Some possibilities:
(1) The tower is the eye of the storm, the one calm place. For meteorological reasons, or because the undead workers building the obelisks need a safe path.
(2) The PCs are being led there deliberately by Sithuud because he wants them for some kind of sacrifice. Or because he wants them to kill Katiyana so he can turn her into a storm ghost.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I had the storms 'chase' the group if the undead spotted them. Eventually they tried attacking one fo the obelisks and they figured the best way was to attack the source. So they seperated from the main caravan and took a battlewagon to the tower.

Mind you I played up how bad the towers were. When they found the first obelisk I had undead surrounding it, like they were drawn to it, frozen bodys 'stuck' to the side of the black stone. If the got too close they attacked.

I also had more notes show up in the cave of the mad Oracle.

Grand Lodge

My group is on it sway to the Path of Spirits. Are there any suggestions/reflections that people have about the Uqtaal Necropolis? It sounds like the yeti combats should be trimmed down to 3, 2, or even a single.

I have up to 6 players that will be sitting down at the table and they synergies well. Almost all combats have to be increased by at least one or two CR just to make initiative worth rolling. Often times accomplished with the advanced template or adding more combatants, many times both.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I actually cut the whole Yeti caves part simply out, because it makes the PC's seem decidedly unheroic to just barge into the living room of people who want to be left in peace and kill them for their stuff. Also because I was at that point sick of the whole module, but that's another story.


I had the yeti retreat after a couple of battles, then return in great numbers for the final climactic battle.

Grand Lodge

magnuskn wrote:
it makes the PC's seem decidedly unheroic to just barge into the living room of people who want to be left in peace and kill them for their stuff.

This makes a lot of sense. I'm in the process of making alterations to eliminate/diminish this issue.


Finally had the big final battle with the yetis yesterday.

The characters decided *not* to go through the caverns and explore the catacombs directly while the rest of the caravan waited near the stone tree. This meant that all 28 yetis from the caverns were accounted for.

They reached the throne room and Katiyana was fully prepared for the ambush. I had Katiyana/Bormurg on the throne directing the battle, casting spells (silence; call lightning storm; summun monster V: large air elemental; unholy blight) and monologuing, two raging savages and three regular yetis.

Each round or so I had five more yetis pop up from the crevasse. With a total of eight yeti savages and twenty regular yetis. It was brutal on some rounds (fighter-rogue halfling fell but was "Breath of Lifed" back to action), but the high AC of the main strikers (fighter, figher/rogue and cleric/monk/fighter/duelist) and the support of the bard and oracle was enough to keep them alive and eventually destroy *all* of the yetis, levaing only Katiyana/Bormurg.

I even had the savages successfully drag our fighter and drop her down the cliff. Too bad she was the one wielding Suishen with an activated Airwalk spell. It led to some angry yetis throwing stones down and hitting allied yetis climbing up.

In the end, only Katiyana/Bormurg remained, Bormurg fell and Katiyana's ghost emerged. Her corrupting touch was devastating, but the nine-fold spirit sword and airwalking characters that could follow her everywhere was too much and she was finally destroyed.

Battle took about four hours to run and enough XPs to reach lvl 11.

One thing I failed to realize was that my summoned Air Elemental could become a whirlwind and would've upgraded the Call Lightning Storm damage from 5d6 to 5d10.

Now we're ready for book 4, and I've yet to include an oni since Froze Shadow. I'm thinking of adding early on Seijiro from Hungry Storms and upgrade him to an atamahuta (ettin) oni. Just so we can access Suishen's next power (flaming burst).

The Exchange

my group explored about half the yeti caves and had to pull back for lack of resources. they camped on the near side of the chasm, and were attacked in the night be a yeti patrol. After that they decided the heck with the cave and went up the middle, but I've been increasing the number and power of the enemies for a 7 player party so the end fight was still pretty epic. Remember that the yetis have darkvision and the end chamber is dark, they can't see what's happening beyond 60 feet very likely.


I have to admit I also cut out the Yeti caves. They just felt "out of place".

Yetis so far had no impact on the story and they won't afterwards. Sure Katiyana is possessing their leader but that doesn't mean it makes it any more right.

I'm also using the "I just tell you when to level up and ignore XP entirely" method, so I didn't need them as filler mobs to boost XP for my party either.


I ran the yetis as a possible fight depending on the PCs actions with RP being the way to go. The druid knocked down the statues forming the barrier and when they entered the throne room they interrupted Katiyana trying to inhabit Bormurg... I don't understand why a Yeti would be attracted to a ghost of a sylph fiend...

The rogue smooth talked his way past the yeti chief and the yetis seemed to be happy that the cavern is now redesnaized which is what the cleric, koya, spivey and the "helmet guy" spent their time doing throughout the whole cavern.

Shadow Lodge

This weekend, my group asked a question that I didn't have an answer to, and couldn't find in either the book or the thread: "How did she activate it, and can we take control of the Storm Sphere?"

I try to give them more than one way to solve any given problem, so the railroad "you must break these six very difficult to break crystals" was an issue. In fact, they were impossible for my party to break: no picks, all our fighters wield light weapons and rely on multiple attacks, most people do elemental damage. There was literally one character who could do a single point of damage, and then only if he rolled max damage.

In the end, I decided that there was a control panel on the roof, just like the ones for the elevators, but to get to it a flying character had to make a Reflex save to avoid the lightning, and then make multiple UMD or DD checks to get it working. When the only character who could make those checks got killed by the failed save, we turned it narrative. "It takes you hours, but you eventually chip the crystals apart."

It would have been nice to have a hint in the room write-up as to how Katiyana gained control in the first place.

The group even got the crysmals to repair the storm sphere, which they will now take with them, because that couldn't possibly come back to haunt them, later...


I assume Katiyana had help from Sithuud. It falls into the general category of 'special evil mastermind ritual that PCs don't have access to'.
What did they want the storm sphere for? Hopefully you can make it play a big role in the Uqtaal finale or similar.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Sylphs have long lifespans, and her lowest mental ability score is an 18 Intelligence. I figure she figured it out given divination, commune, lesser planar ally, and time. She also has her decent ranks in Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device.


I'm fascinated with the Baleful Coven from Legendary Games and tweaked it a little to be a Ravenloft episode. ;) You know, with altered magic, Powers and Fear checks... It was nice reelin' in the years... I'm very curious if my players "can cope with" those interesting (speak: mean) changes. Let's see...

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm worry about the Yeti fight myself. I'm coming to that after my break ends in Oct.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Scharlata wrote:
I'm fascinated with the Baleful Coven from Legendary Games and tweaked it a little to be a Ravenloft episode. ;) You know, with altered magic, Powers and Fear checks... It was nice reelin' in the years... I'm very curious if my players "can cope with" those interesting (speak: mean) changes. Let's see...

Nice. That's takin' it way back, but I think it's an excellent choice for a Ravenloft dip. Should be fun. Let us know how it goes!


Jason Nelson wrote:
... Let us know how it goes!

Will do ;)


Are there any special powers, abilities or statistics for the black monoliths?

Spoiler:
My group encounterd one and decided to destroy it to prevent the proliferation of the morozkos. I made up the statistics as follows: magical item, moderate transmutation, caster level 15th, hardness 8, hit point 60... What do you say? Close, but no cigar?


Jason Nelson wrote:
... Let us know how it goes!

Oops, I missed a timely answer...

It went very well bending the szenario a litte widdershins rule-mechanic-wise -- for me, of course. No, really, we had fun with prerolled d20 results for some Perception checks, saves, and fear checks. I let my players "fish in the mud". And I had very much fun in overdramatizing and exaggerating all fearsome aspects without dragging anyone into a dangerzone undeserved. My players [most of them are old enough to have taken part in some szenario of old] didn't realize the Ravenloft setting until it was way to late . The well dosed unexpected and unexplained "super-magical" changes

Spoiler:
to the nature of the demiplane
made them very anxious and irritated -- as it was supposed to be. It was great fun to let the players guess if the creatures in this plug in were evil or not, for example. It stimulated the second guessing and puzzling part of the game. I'm convinced it was the right decision to transferse your Plug-In-Adventure into the mists of Ravenloft...

And thank you for your great extension(s) to the Jade Regent Adventure Path. (I guess, I'll let "Under Frozen Stars" follow the 3rd part of the Adventure Path.)

Cheers

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Sounds cool. I think you'll have a good time with Under Frozen Stars.


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I also ran the Baleful Coven (and plan on running Under Frozen Stars) and it was very fun! The nightmare scenes really got to my players, and the encounters were challenging but rewarding.

Back to the Hungry Storm though, one of my players brought up a point the other session while the party was crossing the high ice. What's the point of getting the wands of endure elements from the Erutaki when they have a magic sword that casts that same spell for free at will? I guess it makes sense from a story standpoint, since the Erutaki want to reward you and don't know anything about Suishen.

And Scharlata, personally I made the monoliths the same hardness as Adamantine, with the ability to occasionally summon Hala demons. So for a stat block I had them as Magic Items with strong Conjuration and Transmutation.


Super quick question,

I've got a wizard I'm playing in this campaign, and we're yet to decide how to begin the descent around the storm (so no spoilers please!)

We just leveled up though, and I was wondering what the primary language(s) is(are) on Tian Xia. I figured I'd use a new skill point for linguistics so we don't have to rely on NPCs.


ninj4neer wrote:

Super quick question,

I've got a wizard I'm playing in this campaign, and we're yet to decide how to begin the descent around the storm (so no spoilers please!)

We just leveled up though, and I was wondering what the primary language(s) is(are) on Tian Xia. I figured I'd use a new skill point for linguistics so we don't have to rely on NPCs.

Tien is the primary language on Tian Xia, like Taldane is "Common" in the West. However, Minkaian is the language of Minkai, and also a solid choie since that's where you know you're going.

The Exchange

What rogue said. Tien is the equivalent of common, though several nations have their own dialects, as well of some of the new races introduced in Tien...grab a copy of the Dragon Empires Gazetteer and Primer books/pdfs if your GM will allow :)


So we just finished the fight in the Storm Tower, and it was VERY difficult as it should have been. However, one of my players said he hated the fight, pretty much based on the fact that there have been many fights in the AP so far where the party hasn't been able to do much. In this fight, Katiyana got off Greater Command the 1st round, and all but one of the party dropped prone. Then the hoarfrost spirits paralyzed 2 people (one of them the player mentioned) for max rounds. Now, he says these kinds of boss fights aren't fun since he can't really do anything for a large number of rounds, and it's just a waste of time at that point, more annoying than challenging. Now, we've had other fights where the party couldn't do much (Nindenzego since no one in the party had range at the time, a Hala demon where no one could fly, the witchfire fight where nearly everyone was blinded by pyrotechnics for max rounds, and the fight with Tunuak where he was invisible most of the time and throwing around spiritual allies), and as someone who both plays and DMs I definitely understand where he's coming from. Not being able to play your character is not fun, and having lots of fights where it's save based can suck since it's either you pass or fail. But at the same time, if I pull my punches and DON'T use controlling spells like that, the bad guys are being stupid. So I was curious, has anyone else had players voice this opinion? Does anyone else have a party that has had trouble like this? Is it genuine design flaw or just bad luck with rolls? Curious to hear.

By the way, the party is a summoner, cleric, paladin and barbarian.


Protection from evil will counter command. Remove paralysis is a spell. Invisibility purge counter invisibility. The party needs to learn better prep and preventative measures. It shouldn't be that difficult with both a cleric and pally on board. For that matter, if your summner is anything like mine, his UMD must be high enough to pinch-hit a few scrolls or wand if need be.


KetchupKing wrote:
So I was curious, has anyone else had players voice this opinion? Does anyone else have a party that has had trouble like this? Is it genuine design flaw or just bad luck with rolls? Curious to hear.

My players *did* have a hard time in the Storm Tower, but they also realized it only exposed their overall weaknesses.

Get them into melee combat and they are devastating, but against magic and an environment stacked in the favor of the baddies, they found themselves lacking.

Eventually, they became surprisingly better against unconventional fights. Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Restoration, even Control Summoned Creature, are now part of the casters' spell roster (oracle and sorcerer so their list isn't that big to begin with), and the melee combatants are much more open to combat maneuvers.

I've seen them turn the tides of battle more than once by being clever.

The Exchange

Greater Command is a full round cast, which makes it hard to get off. If your group didn't see her casting the spell and hit her with something, that's also bad tactics.


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Cranky Dog, sounds like we have similarly built parties. And yes, the party was not well prepared for that particular fight, and they got pretty unlucky with the rolls. Just for the sake of keeping all my players happy I plan on switching out Katiyana's greater command for Unholy Ice the second time around. Same level spell, and it fits quite well thematically. But we've moved along from the storm tower, and ran Under Frozen Stars, which was really fun! Very entertaining boss fight that was just the right difficulty.

Now, I'm personally very interested in the Nameless Spires, so I wrote a little homebrew stuff for them with ideas from Under Frozen Stars. It's a bit different from what's official on them (namely that I moved the Storm Tower to the north pole) but I hope you like it regardless! I also included an idea for an Erutaki creation myth about the city, all below in the spoiler tag.

Spoiler:
Erutaki Creation Myth: When the world was young, there was no sky, and no oceans. There was only the land, and the high ice on top of it. The Ice reached all the way to the sun and stars, and the great spirits lived within. It was this way for many centuries. However, not all the spirits were happy with this. The spirits of the fish and whales had nowhere to live, and knew in their hearts this was not the way they wanted it to be. They called out to the first Erutaki, the hero Siluk, who agreed to help them unbeknownst to the great spirits. They hatched a plan to break the ice and reveal the city of the spirits within. Narwhal gave Siluk his horn as a wedge, shark gave him his teeth to cut the ice, and whale lent him his mighty strength. Siluk climbed all the way to the top of the ice, cutting the whole way, and when he reached the center at the top Siluk thrust narwhal’s tusk down into the high and split it in one blow. The ice on the top plummeted down to the earth, falling to the low points on the world and melting to form the oceans. The flakes from the blow settled down on the high points of the world and stayed there. The water spirits flocked to their new homes, while the great spirits were furious. They decided to punish the land dwellers for their arrogance by creating the Morozko, to hunt down the foolish erutaki who destroyed their ice and revealed their home to the mortal world.

The Nameless Spires

The city is surrounded by 6 walls, each 3 miles long. This forms a massive hexagon, and at each corner a tower either resides or once resided. The handful of explorers who have been here and lived to tell the tale have said the city seems to be split into 6 distinct sections, as well as a core plaza exactly in the middle, on top of the north pole.

The Storm District: Though technological masters, the builders of the nameless spires were very interested in magic as well. This district was where the most arcane experiments took place, and many laboratories and unique magic items can be found here. This is also where the builders experimented with summoning and gate spells, and unfortunately this attracted attention from beings far beyond the stars. Now several shoggoths prowl the darker buildings here. Out of all the experiments held in this district, projects to control weather were most common here, as the presence of the storm sphere attests to.

The Green District: Perhaps a former food growing district, or a bio-dome to grow plants, this area is now a hotbed for alien plant life. While the top portions are mostly broken and subject to the arctic winds, below the ice the temperatures can reach tropical conditions. In some places, the plants have fused with the computer elements of the spires and gained strange intelligence.

The Manufacturing District: Where most of the mechanical experiments of the founders took place, this district is full of wonders that most on golarion would never understand. Here, clockwork factories continue to run millennia after they were built. An awakened clockwork goliath who has taken up the name #728 guards these factories and laboratories against those who would steal its old masters secrets. Though the factories still function, #728 fears the material supplies are running low, and often reprograms clockworks to retrieve ores and minerals from the mines.

The Strip Mines: Waterfalls of black slurry cascade into canyons many hundreds of feet deep in this district. Mined in ways that perhaps only made sense to their original creators, these tunnels and pits wind in like a labyrinth, burrowing into the thick ice and stone beneath the city. Some tunnels have become completely filled with black slush, while others reveal glorious veins of valuable ore. Gravity behaves very strangely in this district, allowing visitors to walk on any surface. However, gravitational shifts can happen at any time, making travel here dangerous at best. Roughly 200 years ago, the drow wizard Losbrahni and a small group of explorers came from Far Parathra to explore the city. Forgotten now by the rest of their kind, Losbrahni and what is left of her servants live in these tunnels and conduct mad experiments with newfound technologies.

The Core: The hub of the entire city, one could initially mistake the core for a simple, if grand, monument. However, this could not be further from the truth. A dodecahedron of immense size, only half above the streets, the core provides power to the entire city. The sides of this structure are covered in an alien language, unknown to even the most learned of scholars. In this central area is where the most morlocks live, feasting on the energy of the core. Though entirely smooth on its sides, cracks can be spotted on the core itself, particularly below ground, where black slush leaks out. The core occasionally flickers in and out of power, though this happens most often in the winter months. A trio of Ice Devils named Holimara, Benedictum, and Varluus stay within the city and study the core, and perhaps are the most learned creatures about the nameless spires on the material plane.

The Native District: Most of this district lies in ruin, crushed by the fall of its once mighty spire. A former living area for creatures native to golarion, the whole district is now overrun with mutants, cyborgs, morlocks and undead.

The Aquarium District: Formerly a system to create water from the ice and also house various aquatic animals, this district is a frozen navigational nightmare. Corridors and tanks rimmed with ice dot every corner, and the chill infuses everything that arrives in this sector. Chardas and oozes are the most frequently encountered inhabitants of this place, as well as remorahzes who make nests out of giant blocks of ice that were once fish tanks. Far below the streets however, not all is frozen. The few brave explorers who have visited this place whisper of enormous tanks meant to simulate the crushing and still cold waters of the oceans, and the horrors that dwell within them.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Nice additions to the Nameless Spires. Glad you enjoyed the Storm Tower and Under Frozen Stars!


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My group also recently had trouble with the Storm Tower (but it wasn't quite the same encounter...). They made a deal with Katiyana. This was partially facilitated by the fact that her sylph half-sister is in the party, and Katiyana wanted to make her hate their father as much as she did. They then went to the Nameless Spires and did Under Frozen Stars. But by the time they finished, some of the PCs were uneasy with just letting her continue her ritual, so they headed back.

My group always brings lots of caravan NPCs, so I use an 8-player adjustment. I changed Katiyana to the half-succubus variant half-fiend from Demons Revisited. I also made her a Shaman (from the ACG playtest), with the Wandering Lore hex that requires high Int, Wis, and Cha to pull off (because she's got all those!) which lets her add arcane spells to her divine list. Things like contingency heal are pretty useful, for example. She also had Tunuak there, who had escaped before, plus a planar bound demon the party had dealt with in the past.

The PCs actually nearly pulled off a fight-ending sound burst + Dastardly Finish combo (until Katiyana's suggestion took the ninja down, since I was simultaneously attacking the people who stayed behind with a Five Storms assassin, and the ninja wanted to protect Ameiko, so a suggestion to leave and go help her was reasonable), and they might have won without this, but they were getting desperate, so one of the PCs called out to Pazuzu three times and let the demon lord possess her, and that ended the encounter pretty fast. Pazuzu, being a demon lord of winds, wanted to take over the morozkos for his own purposes, but later, the ghost of Katiyana managed to roll a natural 19 and make the DC 30 check to banish his possession, leaving the PC stranded in the snows...


Ok, so I might have missed it in some of the earlier post but I need to ask.

My group is about to hit Vegsundvaag's lair, and I'm not seeing any info as to climb DC's to descend into her lair, give how the map is laid out it seems like it could be a bit of a challenge for a party.

Any help would be great.


Uthak wrote:

Ok, so I might have missed it in some of the earlier post but I need to ask.

My group is about to hit Vegsundvaag's lair, and I'm not seeing any info as to climb DC's to descend into her lair, give how the map is laid out it seems like it could be a bit of a challenge for a party.

Any help would be great.

You're right, it isn't mentioned. Mostly because it's assumed the PCs will be offered the magical Claws of the Ice Bear, which makes climbing checks almost moot.

Otherwise, I'd set the DC at 20 at minimum if they use the claws without the Spider Climb power, DC 25+ without using the claws at all.

With team efforts, they can compensate for any failures. Or if they have Suishen with them, have an Airwalk taxi service.

The Exchange

most of my group wound up flying into the cave


These book threads have been a wonderful source of advice and suggestions.
So as we are about to finish the Hungry Storm I figured I'd put my thoughts.

First I'll admit to thinking of just skipping this book, or doing highlights. I am very happy I found the post by the developer talking about how you are supposed to run this book. I figured I'd give it a shot, and my players have loved it.

They are a fan of random encounters, but in this book they really liked them. They really became a fan of the feeling of the long journey, and in fact one of the PCs has a printed out map of the crown and she takes special care to mark their progress.

I'll say that a spreadsheet was very helpful in tracking the distance, and helping the PCs figure out things like food and uses of endure elements. Their also is a post somewhere in the forms with a list of all the waypoints and distances between them (this was very helpful).

My players have had some issues, but overall they tend to think very sideways and figure strange way out of the problem. (eg the Ramorez in the Storm Tower being dragged down by a block of ice into the elevator shaft.)

If anything my only complaint about the book is I skipped a bunch of the random encounters because it used the caravan encounter system. Some I rebuilt to PC combat, but some of them didn't rebuild cleanly. This also mean some encounters like the Dead Man Dome encounter was tough to run as I was trying to hybrid the PC combat and encounter combat.

I would have really liked the caravan combat system to work as intended, a quick combat that didn't require a map and miniatures, but my players don't feel invested in the combat system as it's presented.


Alright so here's the deal: I'm going to be running book 3 and only book 3 for a four-man group to get some experience with the Gestalt rules, and I'm wondering what sort of pitfalls and preparations I should be making. The party will be a Bard/Ranger 8 Human, a Monk (Tetori)/Druid 8 human who I can only assume will be wildshaping into an octopus to grab people because I mentioned that you can do that, a Hunter/Brawler (mutagenic mauler) 8 who will have an elephant, and a duergar Gunslinger/Alchemist (clone master) 8 who plans on focusing on deadshot damage and has the lowest charisma score I have ever seen in my life.

Given that the characters are gestalt and the people I'm running for have proven to be really good at beating encounters, I'm planning on buffing some of the enemies. Also, since this is a real standalone thing and we don't really care about the plot, I plan to cut out or fastforward through a lot of travel stuff. However, I'm unsure how well the book encounters play out anyway, and I wanted some advice on how to buff and change things to make it more fun and not tpk the party. Things I'm thinking of so far:

-Cutting out random encounters entirely, moving the more interesting ones to the Uqtaal Necropolis. The black monoliths will still be there, though.

-Ditching caravan rules. That one's a given.

-Introducing the Yetis as more of a potential ally. Fighting them just seems...weird, and I'd much rather have them ask the PCs for help because their chieftan has been acting weird and a bunch of strange things have been happening in their home.

-Moving Kjaerulff closer to the rest of the journey and the black monoliths. Since he is concerned with protecting burial grounds and the monoliths have resulted in a ton of undead, it would give him extra reason to attack intruders and let the PCs know something fishy is going on in the land. Also I'd probably give him bloodrager levels, more hp, and maybe another winter wolf so he doesn't get ganked immediately. Also might add some giant skeletons to the undead encounters.

-Gestalting Tunuak with summoner, so as to give him an eidolon meatshield to beef up his encounter (the party can handle invisibility pretty easily). The in-universe rationale would be that the Iqaliat shamans all have a spirit that goes with them and guides them...to an extent. I'd expect both Tunuak and his Eidolon will be swayed to the dark side. Also considering giving him another level.

-Changing Vegsundvaag's encounter, although I'm a bit iffy on this. On one hand, her AC and damage look absolutely monstrous. On the other hand, experience has shown me time and again that single-enemy encounters get murdered before they can do anything, so I don't know. If it is a good idea to buff her, I was planning on adding some white-scaled kobolds to her lair to act as her minions (and probably have one particularly traitorous one who is in league with Tunuak and Katiyana--serving the strongest master, after all) so there's some fodder at least. As for Vegsundvaag herself, I'm considering giving her class levels in...something. I was thinking sorceror but her mental stats stink without some more fiating, and a martial class just doesn't seem proper. Any thoughts?

-Gestalting Katiyana with...something. I'm not entirely sure what goes well with her class levels. Also is it just me or does the Storm Tower seem unnecessarily cramped?

So if anyone had any advice on that, I'd appreciate it. I really don't know what I'm doing here.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

One note about the Vegsundvaag encounter. I had originally written it with her having several children in her lair, each with their own cave, so that an encounter with the mama dragon would also involve an encounter with one or more of the young dragons at the same time. They might not come to help the other young dragons, but they would come to mama's call and she would come to theirs.

If you're interested in the original manuscript, let me know.


I would be, yes. How did the fight go?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

Send me a note at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and I'll see I can get you something before I head out for GenCon.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Googleshng wrote:

Because measuring/double checking all of this was such a huge pain and nobody else should have to go through it, presenting... The Hungry Storm checkpoint distances!

The following information assumes (as per the adventure) a caravan speed of 32 miles/day, and distances are all rounded to the nearest 32 mile interval. All distances/travel times specifically mentioned in the book match up with this perfectly, and it generally meshes nicely with measurements from the crown of the world map.

From Kalsgard to the mountains: 1160 miles/37 days
Through Giant Downs: 224 miles/7 days
At the end of that 7 day stretch, there's a choice of routes.

LAKE ROUTE:
To reach Bearleg Lakes: 96 miles/3 days
Through Bearleg Lakes to Old Magu Encounter: 260 miles/5 days
To Qopuk Ford: 64 miles/2 days
To start of Wandering Herd: 32 miles/1 day
Duration of Wandering Herd: 224 miles/7 days
END OF LAKE ROUTE (Paths rejoin here)

HILL ROUTE:
To Lost Lake: 256 miles/8 days
To Avalanche Ambush: 96 miles/3 days
To Cannibal Camp: 64 miles/2 days
To Fording Taraska: 32 miles/1 day
To end of HILL ROUTE: 32 miles/1 day
END OF HILL ROUTE (Paths rejoin here)

To Iqaliat: 128 miles/4 days
(Side note: 64 miles from rejoin point to Iqualiat/Unaimo route split, 128 miles from there to Unaimo, so at this assumed speed, if you want to head there first, learn the path is blocked and double back, it's an 8 day side trip)
To Dragon: 64 miles/2 days (3 days without a guide, so 96 miles for the scenic route apparently)
To Storm Tower: 704 miles/22 days (starting at Iqaliat, 640 from Dragon)
To Dead Man's Dome: 512 miles/16 days
To Ul-Angorn: 320 miles/10 days (224 high ice, 96 standard)
To/through Ovorikeer Pass: 160 miles/5 days
To Jaagiin: 224 miles/7 days
To Last Pass: 384 miles/12 days
Chased by Morozko: 30 miles/1 day (special rules for it)
To Necropolis: 48 miles/3 days (half speed in the tunnels)
To rejoin path/end of adventure: 160 miles/5 days

I considered rounding the high ice distances off to multiples of...

I just want to say this is the most useful post ever. I refer to this practically every game. Since I'm using a minor variant of the rules (which starts the base speed of the Caravan at 16 miles per hour, but with animal companion steeds, and a couple of other bonuses my group's caravan has a speed of 22 Miles Per Hour.

SO if you want a slower trek through the Crown of the World here's the numbers as I've worked them out with a 22 MPH Caravan.

Spoiler:

From Kalsgard to the mountains: 1160 miles/37 days
Through Giant Downs: 224 miles/10 days
At the end of that 7 day stretch, there's a choice of routes.
LAKE ROUTE:
To reach Bearleg Lakes: 96 miles/4 days
Through Bearleg Lakes to Old Magu Encounter: 260 miles/11.5 days
To Qopuk Ford: 64 miles/3 days
To start of Wandering Herd: 32 miles/1.5 days
Duration of Wandering Herd: 224 miles/10 days
END OF LAKE ROUTE (Paths rejoin here)
HILL ROUTE:
To Lost Lake: 256 miles/11.5 days
To Avalanche Ambush: 96 miles/4 days
To Cannibal Camp: 64 miles/3 days
To Fording Taraska: 32 miles/1.5 day
To end of HILL ROUTE: 32 miles/1.5 day
END OF HILL ROUTE (Paths rejoin here)
To Iqaliat: 128 miles/6 days
(Side note: 64 miles from rejoin point to Iqualiat/Unaimo route split, 128 miles from there to Unaimo, so at this assumed speed, if you want to head there first, learn the path is blocked and double back, it's an 11.5 day side trip)
To Dragon: 64 miles/3 days (4.5 days without a guide, so 96 miles for the scenic route apparently)
To Storm Tower: 704 miles/32 days (starting at Iqaliat, 29 Days from Dragon)
To Dead Man's Dome: 512 miles/23.27 days
To Ul-Angorn: 320 miles/14.5 days (224 high ice (10 Days), 96 standard (4 Days))
To/through Ovorikeer Pass: 160 miles/7 days
To Jaagiin: 224 miles/10 days
To Last Pass: 384 miles/17.5 days
Chased by Morozko: 30 miles/1 day (special rules for it)
To Necropolis: 48 miles/4 days (half speed in the tunnels)
To rejoin path/end of adventure: 160 miles/7 days

Thanks to Googleshng for the original data.

Paizo for future reference in any adventure that assumes travel distances a side-bar that summarizes those distances is incredibly handy for GMs.


I'm curious is there any discussion anywere about changing the caravan to sleds with dog teams for this scenario? Crossing through snow in horse drawn wheeled carrriages seems really dumb. In Russia for example during the winter people travelled between Moscow to St. Petersburg on sleds, that trip was quicker with sleds in the winter then with horses in warmer temperatures.


It's possible that they don't use sleds because the people of Ordu-Aganhei are a bit weird and might refuse to trade with you or sell you any wagons when you get to the far side, leaving you to drag your sleds across the dry rocky steppes to Minkai.

But really, it doesn't make much difference to the story if you do switch to dogsleds, so if you like the idea, go for it. You could assign a small cost for doing it, and make it so that you can travel a bit quicker over the ice.


I did some research the average speed of a horse drawn carriage on a road is 20 MPH. Over deep snow and ice it has to be much slower. So, I'm not sure why the scneario assumes 32 MPH on less then sub optimal terrian for horses. In fact it looks like horse travel through deep snow is about 5 MPH. I'm curious where the 32 MPH number came from. I'm going to assume it was a number that worked best for distances in the scenario and not on any actual data.

Dog sleds can go at 20 MPH over snow/ice.

My players like realism where possible so I'm going to let the party choose to take the wheels off the wagons and replace them with runners and swap the horses for dogs.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
roysier wrote:

I did some research the average speed of a horse drawn carriage on a road is 20 MPH. Over deep snow and ice it has to be much slower. So, I'm not sure why the scneario assumes 32 MPH on less then sub optimal terrian for horses. In fact it looks like horse travel through deep snow is about 5 MPH. I'm curious where the 32 MPH number came from. I'm going to assume it was a number that worked best for distances in the scenario and not on any actual data.

Dog sleds can go at 20 MPH over snow/ice.

My players like realism where possible so I'm going to let the party choose to take the wheels off the wagons and replace them with runners and swap the horses for dogs.

The way you flavour it is your choice. My way of justifying it is that Ulf is taking the characters on a path that's relatively horse friendly. They bought a couple of dog teams too in case they needed to go "off road".

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

The nominal speed for a caravan is 32 miles per DAY, not per hour, as a wagon is supposed to have a speed of 40, and overland travel at that speed = 32 miles per day, adjusted by terrain and weather (see Table 7-6, 7-7, and 7-8 in the Core Rulebook, p. 172).

As far as the wagons vs. sleds debate, in my manuscript I had written a note about the PCs converting their wagons to runners at Iqaliat, and then changing back to wheels when they came down off the High Ice on the other side of the Crown. I don't recall for sure if that was still in the final version but I thought that it was.

Grand Lodge

Jason, it only says that the residents of Iqaliat outfit the caravan with "cold weather gear".
For my campaign, I said that includes outrigger skis for the wagons.


Jason Nelson wrote:

The nominal speed for a caravan is 32 miles per DAY, not per hour, as a wagon is supposed to have a speed of 40, and overland travel at that speed = 32 miles per day, adjusted by terrain and weather (see Table 7-6, 7-7, and 7-8 in the Core Rulebook, p. 172).

As far as the wagons vs. sleds debate, in my manuscript I had written a note about the PCs converting their wagons to runners at Iqaliat, and then changing back to wheels when they came down off the High Ice on the other side of the Crown. I don't recall for sure if that was still in the final version but I thought that it was.

Oops my bad, thanks for clarifying. 32 mile per day would translate to about 4 MPH which is pretty close to accurate for horses through heavy snow.

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