Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Disintegrate Vs Vampire


D&D 3.5/d20/OGL


This come up in our game this week...

If a PC successfully uses Disintegrate on a Vampire, is it destroyed completely as the spell, or turns gaseous as the vampire ability?

What does the assembled community here say? Would like to know how we played it agrees with the consensus...


Both effects are triggered upon reaching zero hp.

In a tie-breaker to see which prevails, I would go with the vampire taking gaseous form. What good is having such an iconic monster if the more difficult, or legend-related means of killing it can be sidestepped by a single spell?

But that's just an arbitrary thing, really.

This question seems awful familiar. I think it might have been beaten pretty severely way back in the 3.5 days on the Wizards' site. Can't remember the consensus, though.


I'd probably compromise and have gaseous form trigger, but have the recovery take twice as long, or something along those lines. Both are very powerful abilities and would tend to either cancel each other out completely or both would happen, but at a weaker effect than normal.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

I am going to with the contrary to what others have said here. Distinigrate is a powerful spell and if the vampire fails their save they fail their save thus distinitgrated. It is not as if the spell is a fireball it is a 6th level spell, I just don't see the being able to then turn into gaseous form then why wouldn't other characters be able to use gaseous form to avoid that spell being cast upon them (I don't think it makes them immune to the spell. Just my 2 cp


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In my games over the years I have always described disintegrate as leaving a fine dust behind. It is only a small logical step to allowing the vampire to escape in gaseous form. YMMV


Maybe I'm confused but I always thought Vamps were IMMUNE to out right death effects like disintegration. No finger of death, no disintegration they don't have constitutions, Disintegration is a special case because it does affect objects however because it's used this way it is treated like a death effect.

Maybe my rules knowledge is off but that's my thought w/o consulting my books.


Interesting thoughts, Steven.

I would have an True Blood-esque explosion, but that's just me.

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Steven Tindall wrote:

Maybe I'm confused but I always thought Vamps were IMMUNE to out right death effects like disintegration. No finger of death, no disintegration they don't have constitutions, Disintegration is a special case because it does affect objects however because it's used this way it is treated like a death effect.

Maybe my rules knowledge is off but that's my thought w/o consulting my books.

Disintegrate is not a death effect and yes, because it works on objects, it also works on undead (despite the fact that it requires a Fortitude save). It just deals a crapload of damage on a failed save.

Personally, I'd be inclined to say disintegrate works just as well as sunlight at making a vampire stay dead (the end result is the same: pile of ash).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Disintegrate will make it gaseous if it fully succeeds. From then it's a race to the vampire's coffin to finish the job. Vampires are supposed to be noteworthy adversaries. and remain such as they scale in CR.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I tend towards disintegrate works to kill them permanently. It works on people when they hit 0, not when they hit neg con score. It's a very good spell for... well... disintegrating something.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Majuba wrote:
I tend towards disintegrate works to kill them permanently. It works on people when they hit 0, not when they hit neg con score. It's a very good spell for... well... disintegrating something.

People unlike vampires can't reconstitute themselves. Same thing holds for Lichs you can blast them to dust but if you dont' get the phylactory they are coming back.


I'm in the gaseous form school. You've successfully blasted it to tiny bits, but those bits turn gaseous and it retreats to its coffin to reconstitute. Though I imagine that takes longer.


Bruunwald wrote:

Both effects are triggered upon reaching zero hp.

In a tie-breaker to see which prevails, I would go with the vampire taking gaseous form. What good is having such an iconic monster if the more difficult, or legend-related means of killing it can be sidestepped by a single spell?

But that's just an arbitrary thing, really.

This question seems awful familiar. I think it might have been beaten pretty severely way back in the 3.5 days on the Wizards' site. Can't remember the consensus, though.

A concensus was never really reached. Both sides had valid arguments.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As written, IIRC, disintegrate doesn't actually reduce the target to 0 hp (or less) - it destroys it by turning it to ash. As was said above, this is the same thing that sunlight does to vampires to destroy them forever - turn them to ash. So, I'd say that RAW leans more heavily toward they're ended than not. True, vampires are supposed to be big, bad, eternal nasties, that can gain levels and scale, but they've got their share of weaknesses that can end them rather quickly, including the ever-dreaded... running water. And, again, as stated before, disintegrate isn't an apprentice's kind of power - it's a pretty high-level ability, which means it's kind of expected that it does weird things.

That said: it's your game, do what you wish!


Cheers for the replies. I can see the reasons why both cases could be true

As for when it happened, I actually went with Disintegrate winning and the vampire being destroyed, really for two reasons

- Disintegrate is a very powerful spell and should be treated as such, even able to off a vampire

- If I had the vampire turn gaseous, the party would have tracked it, found its coffin and finished it off. As the coffin was deep underground (via cracks in the earth and suchlike) it would have taken about an hour of gametime which everyone at the table would have seen as a chore. I didn't want to drag the game down in that way.

In other cases, I would have treated a Lich differently, but purely because on difference in how the Lich reforms.


I went back and looked and now see why I think Disintegrate is a "death" effect. If you cast death ward it will protect you against disintegration. It lists it as one of the things it protects against along with finger of death and the various cause X wounds spells.

Again the disintegration spell does affect objects so that causes it to be a special case unlike other death effect spells.

Not trying to say anything against the way anyone's running just being my usual rules Nazi self(and I like me being this way)

TBA it sounds like you came up with the perfect solution for your game, I hate when our DM bogs down with tracking stuff down.


Freehold DM wrote:

Interesting thoughts, Steven.

I would have an True Blood-esque explosion, but that's just me.

I haven't seen that one, I'm more familiar with them dusting like the Buffy TV series.

except any clothes armor etc are still there so I guess they just dust naked and the party gets their plus OMG ring of protection and uberness (that didn't seem to work against us)


Tacticslion wrote:

As written, IIRC, disintegrate doesn't actually reduce the target to 0 hp (or less) - it destroys it by turning it to ash. As was said above, this is the same thing that sunlight does to vampires to destroy them forever - turn them to ash. So, I'd say that RAW leans more heavily toward they're ended than not. True, vampires are supposed to be big, bad, eternal nasties, that can gain levels and scale, but they've got their share of weaknesses that can end them rather quickly, including the ever-dreaded... running water. And, again, as stated before, disintegrate isn't an apprentice's kind of power - it's a pretty high-level ability, which means it's kind of expected that it does weird things.

That said: it's your game, do what you wish!

I'm changing my opinion to this one. You can all rest easy now.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Community / Gaming / D&D 3.5/d20/OGL / Disintegrate Vs Vampire All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.