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What happened to Aroden?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Did I miss this, or is it an in-canon mystery?

Doug M.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:


Did I miss this, or is it an in-canon mystery?

Doug M.

It's the big mystery in the setting. Paizo have said that they know what happened, but will never tell us.


Only James Jacobs knows..and he ain't telling.

On the other hand there are a few clues scattered through the books...that only serve to fuel the conspiracy theories..


I think that if it was discovered what has happened with Aroden it would kinda ruin it. This way we talk about it, make up our own stories about it, wonnder about it and everyone would have their own version of it. If it was revealed, it might not be to everyone's liking and some folks would be disappointed. So, I'm content with not knowing, although I am of course curious. And I think that if Paizo decides to tell us, the best way would be to make an AP about it or a novel.

Could you give us more info on those clues, please? :D I haven't really noticed them.

Andoran

It is one of the blanks that has been intentionally left blank so that each GM could customize that aspect of the setting for his or her own game world. I like this approach.

It might be that Aroden has been imprisoned and cut off from his followers so that he isn't, in fact, dead.

Or it might be that he lost his godhood. Or it might be that he really is dead for this, that, and the other reason.

I think it has become increasingly clear as the various supplements have been released for the game world over the past four years that Aroden really is dead (in the canon). This is regrettable and I would rather that this matter was left as it was intended -- for the GM to determine.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

He died?
-Kle.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber
Klebert L. Hall wrote:

He died?

-Kle.

Death certificate or it didn't happen.


Since asmodeus no doubt gained the most, and hes such a nice fellow who would never plan anything ahead for his own benefit. Im sure asmodeus had nothing whatsoever to do with it :D


I think its a weakness, others may think its a strength, but there is an awful lot of backstory in APs and PFS mods the pcs just never discover and miss out on.

On the Aroden front, there is a worshipper PC is our SS AP and in a world with 200+ active and proven 'gods', the rest of the pcs wonder why he would give homage to a dead one....


*burp*

... what?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:
Klebert L. Hall wrote:

He died?

-Kle.
Death certificate or it didn't happen.

The way a god's death certificate looks in Golarion is all of his clerics suddenly and forevermore losing the ability to cast spells or be clerics until they shift religions.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
thenovalord wrote:

I think its a weakness, others may think its a strength, but there is an awful lot of backstory in APs and PFS mods the pcs just never discover and miss out on.

On the Aroden front, there is a worshipper PC is our SS AP and in a world with 200+ active and proven 'gods', the rest of the pcs wonder why he would give homage to a dead one....

I agree, which is why in all APs I try to include ways for curious PCs to learn more about the backstory. Of course, if they just kill every NPC they encounter and aren't curious enough to look at old books or research things... they'll miss out as surely as if the GM doesn't utilize those elements to reveal backstory in the first place.

Osirion

Steel_Wind wrote:

It is one of the blanks that has been intentionally left blank so that each GM could customize that aspect of the setting for his or her own game world. I like this approach.

It might be that Aroden has been imprisoned and cut off from his followers so that he isn't, in fact, dead.

Or it might be that he lost his godhood. Or it might be that he really is dead for this, that, and the other reason.

The thing is he has been judged, he was judged before the gods told mortals he was dead, the fact he showed up in the line to be judged was the first clue even the gods had he was dead or even missing.

Pharasma judged his soul then informed the other gods she had done so.


makes me wonder were pharasma sent him =)
Also i wonder if "all" the starstone "gods" will suffer the same fate....

Paizo Employee Creative Director

11 people marked this as a favorite.

Everything will eventually die. Pharasma knows this. She'll know WHEN it happens when she shows up in the line to be judged by herself.

Contributor

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Steel_Wind wrote:

It is one of the blanks that has been intentionally left blank so that each GM could customize that aspect of the setting for his or her own game world. I like this approach.

It might be that Aroden has been imprisoned and cut off from his followers so that he isn't, in fact, dead.

Or it might be that he lost his godhood. Or it might be that he really is dead for this, that, and the other reason.

The thing is he has been judged, he was judged before the gods told mortals he was dead, the fact he showed up in the line to be judged was the first clue even the gods had he was dead or even missing.

Pharasma judged his soul then informed the other gods she had done so.

Exactly.

But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

To put it another way, Pharasma has proven that she will lie when it suits her purposes. Ergo, hoping that Aroden is not really dead is just hoping that Pharasma is lying again, which is hardly outside the realm of possibility.

Osirion

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

But that is the point. He was not suppose to die, which is what has made prophecy tumble upon its head and caused issues with in her own faith.

Contributor

It should also be pointed out that when Pharasma judges someone's soul, she generally sends it somewhere, and since none of the other gods are going "Lookee here! I've got Aroden's soul right here!" it begs the question of where Aroden's soul is.

There's also this theological point:

"Thais, the Accidental Herald
Before rising to the status of Herald of the Accidental God, Thais was a prostitute and friend of the then mortal Cayden Cailean. The two adventured together on more than one occasion, and after her death the now divine Cayden claimed her spirit and placed her in her current role."

Thais is a mortal who became a demigoddess after death specifically because her friend Cayden Cailean passed the test of the Starstone, became a god, and then decided he needed a herald.

Since Iomedae became a goddess the same way--except she did it on purpose--it's a reasonable theological question whether she now has Aroden's soul, and if so, why doesn't she just raise it to godhood again?

I should point out that I don't want these questions answered as they are best answered by individual GMs.

Contributor

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

But that is the point. He was not suppose to die, which is what has made prophecy tumble upon its head and caused issues with in her own faith.

I'd say it was more a question that he was supposed to die, but Pharasma knew that if she mentioned that fact, someone would prevent it and cause all sorts of unpleasantness. So she made the choice to drop the ball as Goddess of Prophecy so she could uphold her perfect records as Goddess of Death.

Well, "Perfect" until Urgathoa pulled her little trick.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

Exactly.

But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

To put it another way, Pharasma has proven that she will lie when it suits her purposes. Ergo, hoping that Aroden is not really dead is just hoping that Pharasma is lying again, which is hardly outside the realm of possibility.

Why would she notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die?

Maybe no one asked, maybe she wasn't allowed to do so, maybe Aroden asked her not to tell, maybe she didn't now until he died. No one said that she new before he standed in the line. (except as universal prophece "everyone will die")

Paizo Employee Developer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:
Everything will eventually die. Pharasma knows this. She'll know WHEN it happens when she shows up in the line to be judged by herself.

"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

To put it another way, Pharasma has proven that she will lie when it suits her purposes. Ergo, hoping that Aroden is not really dead is just hoping that Pharasma is lying again, which is hardly outside the realm of possibility.

Whether or not Aroden's death caught Pharasma by surprise or she DID know it was coming and chose for her own mysterious reasons not to reveal that to the world is the question.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

D&D 4e Killed Aroden!


Let us not forget also that one of Pharasma;s Servants bears a striking resemblance to Aroden.

Osirion

DM Wellard wrote:
Let us not forget also that one of Pharasma;s Servants bears a striking resemblance to Aroden.

Which one, and where is he?


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
DM Wellard wrote:
Let us not forget also that one of Pharasma;s Servants bears a striking resemblance to Aroden.
Which one, and where is he?

Gods and Magic p.30, where it discusses Pharasma's divine servants: one of them is

Spoiler:
Echo of Lost Divinity, who is <quote>a spectral soldier in fine clothes who vaguely resembles depictions of Aroden.<end quote>

-- C.

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:

But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

To put it another way, Pharasma has proven that she will lie when it suits her purposes. Ergo, hoping that Aroden is not really dead is just hoping that Pharasma is lying again, which is hardly outside the realm of possibility.

Whether or not Aroden's death caught Pharasma by surprise or she DID know it was coming and chose for her own mysterious reasons not to reveal that to the world is the question.

Exactly.

And there's also Option C: The rumors of Aroden's death have been greatly exaggerated and Pharasma and/or Iomedae are likely complicit in him faking his death for whatever ineffable reasons he might have.


Douglas Muir 406 wrote:


Did I miss this, or is it an in-canon mystery?

Doug M.

It's easy...the prophecy that "failed," didn't. It was simply vaguely worded and misinterpreted by all. Aroden realized the truth of it too late, and did what he had to do to ensure humanity's survival: sacrifice himself so his energy flowed back into the starstone so that power could be called upon by a group of adventurers in the future.

He realized that even if he was there, in the future, to fight whatever threatened Golarion, he would not be able to stop the calamity for whatever reason...but the adventurers would. He also realized that the power of the stone was not limitless. The future saviors would need his power.

/end thread

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I theorize that Aroden is not dead, but imprisoned. Imprisoned in the Eye of Abednego. Imprisoned for what reason, or by whom? Idunno, but there are many who have motive to do so.


Nodnarb wrote:
I theorize that Aroden is not dead, but imprisoned. Imprisoned in the Eye of Abednego. Imprisoned for what reason, or by whom? Idunno, but there are many who have motive to do so.

His soul has been judged. Paizo staff, including in this thread, have repeatedly referred to him as being dead. He is dead.

Andoran

thenovalord wrote:
I think its a weakness, others may think its a strength, but there is an awful lot of backstory in APs and PFS mods the pcs just never discover and miss out on.

That's why after we finish an AP, I read it.

-Kle.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
thenovalord wrote:
On the Aroden front, there is a worshipper PC is our SS AP and in a world with 200+ active and proven 'gods', the rest of the pcs wonder why he would give homage to a dead one....

Faith.

When one has it, the power it provides can be greater than any magic. Something I've always found interesting about worlds like Golarion is the stunning lack of faith existent in them because it's not needed. The gods are as much servants to the "mortal" races as vice-versa. Thus, they supply their followers with easily seen reasons to follow them.

This is why unique cases like Aroden are awesome to me. A god presumed dead that doesn't offer spells to anyone anymore. Why worship him? There's more substance to that question and this deity in Golarion than in any of the other deities combined. Futile or faith? To each their own on how to answer it.

When it comes to the heavens where the earthly races can't see what's going on, however, I never rule anything out. ;)

Shadow Lodge

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
It should also be pointed out that when Pharasma judges someone's soul, she generally sends it somewhere, and since none of the other gods are going "Lookee here! I've got Aroden's soul right here!" it begs the question of where Aroden's soul is.

1. Dude's decided to full-on retire. Tired of the stress of being a god, he keeps a low profile in the afterlife, and tells people his name was John Smith.

2. Five minutes after Pharasma judged him, and during his journey to wherever he was going to end up, a daemon grabbed him. Mmmm...soul. Good eatin'.
3. Iomedae got his soul, but she's purposely keeping it on the down-low, because she's in charge now, and she's not letting the old man get all re-ascended and take his portfolio back.
4. Pharasma's judgement was harsh. Aroden's soul was destroyed.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
It should also be pointed out that when Pharasma judges someone's soul, she generally sends it somewhere, and since none of the other gods are going "Lookee here! I've got Aroden's soul right here!" it begs the question of where Aroden's soul is.

1. Dude's decided to full-on retire. Tired of the stress of being a god, he keeps a low profile in the afterlife, and tells people his name was John Smith.

2. Five minutes after Pharasma judged him, and during his journey to wherever he was going to end up, a daemon grabbed him. Mmmm...soul. Good eatin'.
3. Iomedae got his soul, but she's purposely keeping it on the down-low, because she's in charge now, and she's not letting the old man get all re-ascended and take his portfolio back.
4. Pharasma's judgement was harsh. Aroden's soul was destroyed.

5. Pharasma kept the soul for herself: see spoiler from Gods and Magic above

6. Aroden's soul was sent somewhere other gods have not found yet: Great Beyond, new demiplane, ect.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

Or maybe she judged it as a matter of the gods, not for mere mortals to know or worry about ahead of it's time. Prophecy is a double-edged sword, revealing too much is far more dangerous than not revealing enough. For one thing revealing too much about one prophecy may spoil the fulfilment of more important matters. And it may very well be that there are matters important enough to make Aroden's demise a mere footnote.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I always liked Necromancer Games' Weeping God from the book of Artifacts for a possible 'Aroden fate'

A possible BECMI shout out, maybe he's gone through Godhood, his 'death' decended him to mortality, and he's heading to Godhood again, to see if doing it twice promotes him to a new level of awarenes.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


But since Pharasma failed to notify her followers beforehand that Aroden would die--which is a pretty significant omission when you're the Goddess of Prophecy and Death--that puts her veracity into question.

Or maybe she judged it as a matter of the gods, not for mere mortals to know or worry about ahead of it's time. Prophecy is a double-edged sword, revealing too much is far more dangerous than not revealing enough. For one thing revealing too much about one prophecy may spoil the fulfilment of more important matters. And it may very well be that there are matters important enough to make Aroden's demise a mere footnote.

While I don't particularly care for the Sword of Truth series, there is one nice scene with a prophet, where he talks about how he spouted out a piece of the profecy and doing so caused a war that killed thousands. When asked why he did it, knowing what would happen, he mentions what he saw to come to pass if he didn't start the war. One of the children who died in the war would grow up to become a mass murdering general, and the death toll from his wars would dwarf that of the one he caused.

Perhaps Pharsma wasn't suprized by Aroden showing up at her door. Perhaps she saw it all along, but knows worse things would have happened if she didn't tell.


Also that one shot adventure they had a couple of years back when a Protean or whatever tried to cause more chaos among Aroden's followers by helping them bring Aroden back from the dead. It didn't turn out as well as they hoped, though.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Tiger got 'im.

Grand Lodge

Evil Midnight Lurker wrote:
Tiger got 'im.

Really? I just thought it got his leg...


The other gods took him snipe hunting.

He's not dead at all; but somewhere, on another plane, he's sitting alone in a dark woods with a burlap sack, waiting on Sarenrae, Desna, Gorum, Erastil and all the rest to stir up a snipe and run it his way.

Osirion

Sweet Gods does that bring back memories. It is good form to go get those poor souls at some point however.

Cheliax

A certain T-rex got hungry, now I'm not gonna name any names, but I think we all know who I'm talking about.

Cheliax

Cthulhu did it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kantrip wrote:
The other gods took him snipe hunting.
SwnyNerdgasm wrote:
A certain T-rex got hungry, now I'm not gonna name any names, but I think we all know who I'm talking about.
DamnIAmPretty wrote:
Cthulhu did it.

Whoah, whoah, whoah, whoah. Whoah. Whoah. You all're saying that Cthulhu is one of those snipes? And a snipe is a T-Rex? Huh. No wonder I never managed to catch one. Lousy burlap bag...

*goes and gets a big fishing boat to ram the snipe in the head*

(Actually, I've never been snipe hunting. Lousy great friends and honest family who never thought playing deceitful tricks was fun. Wait...)

Qadira

OK dumb question, but has a divinity ever been raised from the dead? If so how did Pharisma respond?


Tiger got him.

Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Iomedae got tired of his philandering ways. (Ever since second wife Arazni died, he's had a wandering eye. One god-wife was never enough for A-Rod.)

He's not coming back, not so long as Iomedae draws breath.

Heaven hath no fury like a goddess scorned.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It was an orangutan. Once they have you by the leg, it's all over.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion Subscriber

Whatever happens in Aroden, stays in Aroden.

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