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Barbarian-making guide


Advice

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So it has come to my attention recently that Barbarians are, to put it bluntly, completely freaking balls-to-the-wall awesome. I've seen lots and lots of various build-advice guides on spellcasters, and one on rangers.

I haven't seen one on barbarians. Is this a thing that has already been done, or is there room for someone to write one? And if there is, I'm totally going to write one, so feel free to add your ideas and theories for good stuff.

That said? Spell Sunder. It is amazing.


Something I noticed in UC that I'm VERY surprised no one has commented on yet...

All the new Damage Resistance boosting feats.

The big one... Bolstered Resilience.
As an immediate action, you can double your
DR against a single attack, to a maximum of DR 20. The
type of the DR remains unchanged. If the attack you are
guarding against is not successful, the increased damage
reduction persists until you are hit with an attack or until
the start of your next turn, whichever happens first. At the
start of your next turn, you become fatigued. You cannot
use this feat while you are fatigued.

It only works for one attack a round, but it's GREAT for the Invuln Rager.
Being fatigued after sucks, so just figure out how to make yourself immune to fatigue! An oracle level or two with the lame curse, 3 levels of the Horizon Walker PrC (favored terrain Desert), or 5 levels of the new Martial Artist Monk Archetype and you get a guaranteed double DR against one attack a round! (though it ocunts as your swift action)

Stalwart and Improved Stalwart are also great.
It turns the AC bonus from Combat Expertise into DR that STACKS with the DR you already have. The improved version doubles it.
The biggest hurdle for these is that they require Endurance and Diehard.
Some might say you can't use Combat Expertise while Raging, but that particular restriction was actually removed from Pathfinder.

You could get some insane DR with an Invuln Barbarian and these feats.


Ravennus wrote:

Something I noticed in UC that I'm VERY surprised no one has commented on yet...

All the new Damage Resistance boosting feats.

The big one... Bolstered Resilience.
As an immediate action, you can double your
DR against a single attack, to a maximum of DR 20. The
type of the DR remains unchanged. If the attack you are
guarding against is not successful, the increased damage
reduction persists until you are hit with an attack or until
the start of your next turn, whichever happens first. At the
start of your next turn, you become fatigued. You cannot
use this feat while you are fatigued.

It only works for one attack a round, but it's GREAT for the Invuln Rager.
Being fatigued after sucks, so just figure out how to make yourself immune to fatigue! An oracle level or two with the lame curse, 3 levels of the Horizon Walker PrC (favored terrain Desert), or 5 levels of the new Martial Artist Monk Archetype and you get a guaranteed double DR against one attack a round! (though it ocunts as your swift action)

Stalwart and Improved Stalwart are also great.
It turns the AC bonus from Combat Expertise into DR that STACKS with the DR you already have. The improved version doubles it.
The biggest hurdle for these is that they require Endurance and Diehard.
Some might say you can't use Combat Expertise while Raging, but that particular restriction was actually removed from Pathfinder.

You could get some insane DR with an Invuln Barbarian and these feats.

Heart of the Fields from the APG is another one I like, the alternate class for Human. You can immediately stop fatigue from setting in 1/day at first level. From there, just go for some Allnight from the adventurer's armory, it completely eliminates fatigue for 8 hours (Though it gives a -2 to skill checks).

Still, a superpowerful tank of a barbarian is fairly interesting. I'm... concerned about ever giving a barbarian of int over 7, but Stalwart looks good for if you want to take combat expertise and can spare the 3 stat points.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There was a try but i don't think it was finished, here is the thread for it.


leo1925 wrote:
There was a try but i don't think it was finished, here is the thread for it.

Just checked, it's still incomplete. With all the rage powers nowadays there's several barbarian builds that are definitely workable, too. ESPECIALLY with Ultimate Combat. Well then. I will have to try my hand at making a guide.

I predict a compulsion to type it in all caps, but as a barbarian I will definitely make my will save against it.


Barbarian-making guide..

When the mommy barbarian and the daddy barbarian decide they love each other very much...


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Shifty wrote:

Barbarian-making guide..

When the mommy barbarian and the daddy barbarian decide they love each other very much...

MIND AM BLOWN. BARBARIAN AM THOUGHT COME FROM CABBAGE PATCH.

MOMMY BARBARIAN AM LYING TO BARBARIAN.

BARBARIAN SMASH MOMMY LIKE PUNY CASTER!


Go for it. There is a barbarian guide out there but I feel its been abandoned and it was not that great to begin with. Having bantered back and forth with you for the last couple days I can tell you know enough and have the right barbarian mindset (Dire Bat Turd Crazy) to make it entertaining and interesting at the least. If you need any help just let us know.


Trinam wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
There was a try but i don't think it was finished, here is the thread for it.

Just checked, it's still incomplete. With all the rage powers nowadays there's several barbarian builds that are definitely workable, too. ESPECIALLY with Ultimate Combat. Well then. I will have to try my hand at making a guide.

I predict a compulsion to type it in all caps, but as a barbarian I will definitely make my will save against it.

I agree. My favorite barbarian build (mage-killer) has gotten some great bumps. I am still holding out for an awesome lvl 20 ability to go with this. Something like a selective anti-magic field within 5 ft of me. Would not prevent being targeted by spells but would nullify any battlefield control spells around you and prevent casters from casting next to you. Take that stupid current lvl 20 capstone of suck.

As for the All caps. Go for it, write the intro as your barbarian. It will set an awesome tone for just what the heck us barbarians are. It will also make the fighters jealous of the awesomeness.


Lab_Rat wrote:
Go for it. There is a barbarian guide out there but I feel its been abandoned and it was not that great to begin with. Having bantered back and forth with you for the last couple days I can tell you know enough and have the right barbarian mindset (Dire Bat Turd Crazy) to make it entertaining and interesting at the least. If you need any help just let us know.

I will certainly do so. As soon as I have a google doc up for it I'll let you guys know for feedback and anything I've missed, and if I run into any questions I'll ask it up here.

I will try to keep my inner BARBARIAN to a minimum, but... I can't promise he won't have anything to say. BARBARIAN AM VERYFINE RITER.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

With new feats like Raging Brutality, don't forget to mention that the Barbarian's main stat could be thought of as CON, with STR taking a very close second.

All the new rage manipulation feats are excellent, and once a barbarian can rage without fear of fatigue, such as with the three levels of Horizon Walker mentioned above, Vital Strike seems like it may be a good feat for the barbarian. Vital Strike + Furious Finish + Enlargement + Oversized Bastard Sword anyone?


Lab_Rat wrote:
As for the All caps. Go for it, write the intro as your barbarian. It will set an awesome tone for just what the heck us barbarians are. It will also make the fighters jealous of the awesomeness.

...or i could do that. You're a freaking genius.


Mergy wrote:

With new feats like Raging Brutality, don't forget to mention that the Barbarian's main stat could be thought of as CON, with STR taking a very close second.

All the new rage manipulation feats are excellent, and once a barbarian can rage without fear of fatigue, such as with the three levels of Horizon Walker mentioned above, Vital Strike seems like it may be a good feat for the barbarian. Vital Strike + Furious Finish + Enlargement + Oversized Bastard Sword anyone?

This is something I'll have to crunch numbers on, as Brutality spends extra rage rounds (which the bonus con doesn't give back nearly as fast), so I'd have to see if the trade-off is worth it. I do like the Vital Strike chain very much, and I'm going to (GOING to) be crunching numbers on it.


The feat section should be fairly simple. Rage Powers are awesome. You want more Rage Powers. The feat Extra Rage Power gives you more Rage Powers. Most of your feats will thus be Extra Rage Power.

I think my barbarian has two real feats (Power Attack and Combat Reflexes) so far and I don't see any more that are must haves.


I also like the Raging Vitality feat, and the Mounted Combat feat for my dire bat.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lab_Rat wrote:

The feat section should be fairly simple. Rage Powers are awesome. You want more Rage Powers. The feat Extra Rage Power gives you more Rage Powers. Most of your feats will thus be Extra Rage Power.

I think my barbarian has two real feats (Power Attack and Combat Reflexes) so far and I don't see any more that are must haves.

What about the critical feats?


Trinam wrote:
I also like the Raging Vitality feat, and the Mounted Combat feat for my dire bat.

Raging Vitality is a definite yes. Forgot I had it. So revise to 3 feats. My barbarian is in PFS so I will be a pass on the whole mount thing. The writers love close quarters so large mounts don't help a lot. Will find some other way to fly and see sneaky casters(Use magic device, capture squishy caster and cram him into bag of hold stuff to use later).


leo1925 wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:

The feat section should be fairly simple. Rage Powers are awesome. You want more Rage Powers. The feat Extra Rage Power gives you more Rage Powers. Most of your feats will thus be Extra Rage Power.

I think my barbarian has two real feats (Power Attack and Combat Reflexes) so far and I don't see any more that are must haves.

What about the critical feats?

The critical feats have two major problems, first that Critical Mastery is basically a feat tax for them. Let's face it, if you're a Critical-based barbarian, you're probably going to have the auto-confirmation rage power.

Second is that your Power Attack is already free to your attack roll due to Reckless Assault, so you may as well take Dazing Assault or Stunning Assault. You get the -5 to hit, and they have to save versus being dazed or stunned or what have you. You also avoid the Critical Mastery feat tax.

It does have the benefit of eventually getting to two status effects at once at late levels, but generally the Assault type feats cost less but are just as effective (Since it's a nearly assured 2 saves and a probable 3rd versus a 25% chance of critical hit)


leo1925 wrote:
Lab_Rat wrote:

The feat section should be fairly simple. Rage Powers are awesome. You want more Rage Powers. The feat Extra Rage Power gives you more Rage Powers. Most of your feats will thus be Extra Rage Power.

I think my barbarian has two real feats (Power Attack and Combat Reflexes) so far and I don't see any more that are must haves.

What about the critical feats?

Critcal feats are great if you invest in their usage (high crit range weapon, feats and traits to bump confirmation, etc.) For on the cheap domination I much rather prefer the assault line of feats. Barbarians have a great amount of Hit (especially since they can use Reckless Abandon) so the -5 is not to bad. Dazing Assault = OMG ME WANT NOW. Use Dazing Assault with Come And Get Me = You die now and if you live you forget to go and then I kill you.

EDIT - Ninja'd....um Barbarian'd!?!


Mergy wrote:

With new feats like Raging Brutality, don't forget to mention that the Barbarian's main stat could be thought of as CON, with STR taking a very close second.

All the new rage manipulation feats are excellent, and once a barbarian can rage without fear of fatigue, such as with the three levels of Horizon Walker mentioned above, Vital Strike seems like it may be a good feat for the barbarian. Vital Strike + Furious Finish + Enlargement + Oversized Bastard Sword anyone?

The big problem I have with vital strike (other than I don't want to follow the chain for 3 feats. Gah!) is that I only want it till I get pounce. Once a barbarian gets pounce at lvl 10 you will rarely ever use vital strike again.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

@Trinam
I suspect that you meant critical focus instead of critical mastery (the fighter-only feat), if you did then yes i agree with you.
And i think you have convinced me for the barbarian dazing and stunning assault are better.

Now you have got me in some thinking, usually i try to take improved critical (falchion or scimitar) on my characters just so i don't restrict myself on a keen weapon but now i am starting to think that barbarians need their feats (and they don't have bonus ones) SO much that i might want to skip improved critical and rely on a keen weapon.


I prefer to smash things with big hammer. Makes pretty red mist clouds from squishy caster types.


Has anyone else noticed that Beastial Leaper is a spring attack that you can use vital strike / cleave / all kinds of other goodies with? Pretty sweet. Too bad you have to take a useless rage power befor that though. We have a new term now specific for barbarians. The rage power tax (we will call it the rage tax because that flows better).


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Just some UC powers I see as OMG:

Eater of magic - Its a re-roll on a failed save that can give you Temp HP. Sweet.

Ghost Rager - I get What???? My superstition bonus to my touch AC and I can hit incorporeal creatures too. OMG Can't Touch This. That's a +13 to my touch AC at lvl 20 for my human superstitious barbarian. I reiterate... CAN'T TOUCH THIS. Hammer Time (literally...I now hit you with my hammer)

Spell Sunder - Oh dear sweetness. I can sunder magic. OMG....Sunder Summoned creature to dispell. My barbarian just took out the most useful spell in the game. Hah! Sunder Bot ho! I see your prismatic wall and raise you a HAMMER OF DOOM!

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Don't forget to mention Orcs of Golarion feats. I think Half-Orc is one of the best barbarians for stuff like Gore Fiend and Destroyer's Blessing.

Spend extra rage to add CON to damage? Crit to get the rage back! It's a shame the CON doesn't add to the crit.


I'll update and repost my Pouncing, CAGM, Superstitious, Dazing Assault Invulnerable Rager build for your guides' build section.

You can call it the 'Your Party Hates you cause you kill everything before they get a turn build'


STR Ranger wrote:

I'll update and repost my Pouncing, CAGM, Superstitious, Dazing Assault Invulnerable Rager build for your guides' build section.

You can call it the 'Your Party Hates you cause you kill everything before they get a turn build'

Yes. I will have to see it, and it will make me giddy in many, many ways.


Mergy wrote:

Don't forget to mention Orcs of Golarion feats. I think Half-Orc is one of the best barbarians for stuff like Gore Fiend and Destroyer's Blessing.

Spend extra rage to add CON to damage? Crit to get the rage back! It's a shame the CON doesn't add to the crit.

I haven't actually seen any Orcs of Golarion stuff, I'll need to look through it it seems.


Trinam wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

I'll update and repost my Pouncing, CAGM, Superstitious, Dazing Assault Invulnerable Rager build for your guides' build section.

You can call it the 'Your Party Hates you cause you kill everything before they get a turn build'

Yes. I will have to see it, and it will make me giddy in many, many ways.

That build is completely broken at lvl 12. The key is a decent dex and combat reflexes. Then you just pick a fighter and use all your AoO on one poor suspecting fighter. Taking a full attack charge on someone is pain enough but then delivering 4-6 AoO on the guy during his at full BAB is enough to make even the toughest fighter go down. And that's if you don't get a daze off on the guy.

The only defense against that build is a sword and board fighter with combat expertise. They can take all that extra hit you give them and convert it all into AC, making it nigh impossible to hit them.


I would be very happy to see a barbarian guide incorporating everything from APG and UC. Although, it seems that any barbarian other than the Invulnerable Rager seems less than optimal.

A one level dip into Unbreakable Fighter might be a very real consideration if one wants the Stalwart and Improved Stalwart Feats. Combined with Bolstered Resilience, a level 19 Barbaraian/1 Unbreakable fighter would have a 38 DR (and that's without the Increased DR rage power taken 3 times).


Invulnerable Rager is the most optimal choice cause when people go barbarian they wanna be an Invulnerable Rager.

You can make a scary mounted build (pounce+spirted charge+pouncing mount) with Mounted Rager.

Brutal Pugilist is a pretty tough grappler. Combine that with Strength Surge, Greater Grapple, Rapid Grappler(UC), Body Blow(UC) and some way to be size large you can grapple people to tied up in one round, then beat someone else to death with them, which is pretty metal.

Urban Barbarian + Dervish Dance + Ghost Rager = equals a dude with near untouchable Touch AC, who does decent damage, and maybe can even twf with a claw attack in his back hand.

Elemental Kin just gives up the ability to be a Invulnerable Rager to get quite a few extra rages a day, which if you are using the new Raging Brutality, is solid.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lab_Rat wrote:
Trinam wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:

I'll update and repost my Pouncing, CAGM, Superstitious, Dazing Assault Invulnerable Rager build for your guides' build section.

You can call it the 'Your Party Hates you cause you kill everything before they get a turn build'

Yes. I will have to see it, and it will make me giddy in many, many ways.

That build is completely broken at lvl 12. The key is a decent dex and combat reflexes. Then you just pick a fighter and use all your AoO on one poor suspecting fighter. Taking a full attack charge on someone is pain enough but then delivering 4-6 AoO on the guy during his at full BAB is enough to make even the toughest fighter go down. And that's if you don't get a daze off on the guy.

The only defense against that build is a sword and board fighter with combat expertise. They can take all that extra hit you give them and convert it all into AC, making it nigh impossible to hit them.

Broken as illegal or broken as unbelievable powerful?

Taldor

Lab_Rat wrote:


The only defense against that build is a sword and board fighter with combat expertise. They can take all that extra hit you give them and convert it all into AC, making it nigh impossible to hit them.

Or ranged weapons. Or outreaching the sucker with a reach weapon and/or enlarge. Or disarm. There are lots of solutions (although the CAGM build is generally very nice).


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Unbelievably powerful. Most of the time in fights you will attack more often the the TWF dudes, even though you are just swinging one big ole sword. You will also hit more often then anyone else, cause most of your attacks are at your highest attack bonus. You will also hit harder, cause you are two handing your weapons and getiing a nice strength bonus. And chicks will dig you more, cause you aren't wearing a shirt and are totally ripped.


Andy Ferguson wrote:
Unbelievably powerful. Most of the time in fights you will attack more often the the TWF dudes, even though you are just swinging one big ole sword. You will also hit more often then anyone else, cause most of your attacks are at your highest attack bonus. You will also hit harder, cause you are two handing your weapons and getiing a nice strength bonus. And chicks will dig you more, cause you aren't wearing a shirt and are totally ripped.

The key is that you have to invest enough Dex at character creation to make it useful. So you sacrifice some HP in order to start with a 14 dex. The combat reflexes plus a dex bump belt give you a decent number of AoO.


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Since we are talking Barbarians and UC, I am currently thinking of a change in my current PFS barbarian build. Here is what he is so far

Invulnerable Rager, Human w/ superstition bonus
1) Raging Vitality
H) Power Attack
2) Rage - Lesser Beast Totem
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Rage - Reckless Abandon
5) Extra Rage Power - Superstition
6) Beast Totem

Now PFS only goes to 12 and at that point you retire (very sad as I still have a lot more rage powers I want to use). So here is my conundrum, I was planning on throwing in some one time/rage powers in the lvl 7,8, and 9 slots and then grabbing Greater beast totem pouncy goodness. Then something at 11 and Come and Get Me at 12. There are three options floating around in my head:

1) Original plan with 1/rage goodies in the middle levels.
2) Ditch some 1/rage goodies for whitch hunter and SPELL SUNDER.
3) Be crazy (my barbarian hates casters for the reason that they keep all the magic for themselves and lord over everyone with it. His opinion is that if he kills them all their magic will be released and everyone could use it, including himself.) So he could swing this in character and grab a lvl of oracle for fatigue immunity and then grab some 1/rage goodies to use it with.

What do you all think? Any advice on a good path forward would help.


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Lab_Rat wrote:

Since we are talking Barbarians and UC, I am currently thinking of a change in my current PFS barbarian build. Here is what he is so far

Invulnerable Rager, Human w/ superstition bonus
1) Raging Vitality
H) Power Attack
2) Rage - Lesser Beast Totem
3) Combat Reflexes
4) Rage - Reckless Abandon
5) Extra Rage Power - Superstition
6) Beast Totem

Now PFS only goes to 12 and at that point you retire (very sad as I still have a lot more rage powers I want to use). So here is my conundrum, I was planning on throwing in some one time/rage powers in the lvl 7,8, and 9 slots and then grabbing Greater beast totem pouncy goodness. Then something at 11 and Come and Get Me at 12. There are three options floating around in my head:

1) Original plan with 1/rage goodies in the middle levels.
2) Ditch some 1/rage goodies for whitch hunter and SPELL SUNDER.
3) Be crazy (my barbarian hates casters for the reason that they keep all the magic for themselves and lord over everyone with it. His opinion is that if he kills them all their magic will be released and everyone could use it, including himself.) So he could swing this in character and grab a lvl of oracle for fatigue immunity and then grab some 1/rage goodies to use it with.

What do you all think? Any advice on a good path forward would help.

Honestly? I think you want to go SPELL SUNDER and you also want Strength Surge to get it. (With spell sunder, consider taking Improved Sunder at some point. You don't want to provoke AoO's when sundering a spell, particularly if that spell is a summoned creature. Maybe retrain Combat Reflexes for it, since my plan will keep you from CAGM and Reflex isn't nearly as good without it.)

With 1/rage powers, the key is to find a way to become immune to fatigue. My barbarians generally fake it with Heart of the Fields on a human, and later on some way of getting Lesser Restoration for free, but eventually you're going to want immunity. Since level 17 is out of the question due to PFS, you'll probably want to take a level of Oracle. The question is, where?

I'd take it as your 11th level. At 10, pounce is WAY too good to miss out on, especially since it makes you some kind of crazy smash-all barbarian fiend. Taking it at 11th will make you immune to fatigue and give you some revelations to play around with, a Tongues barbarian is honestly pretty cool, since BARBARIAN AM SPEAK NONSENSE WHEN AM ANGERRRRRRR.

Your final level would be Barbarian (Of course), and while you miss out on the 12th level rage power, you instead are immune to fatigue and have all sorts of 1/rage powers to use 1/round. Your 'capstone' would be getting +6 STR/+8 CON from your rages.

I'd end up making it look something like this:

1) Raging Vitality
H) Power Attack
2) Lesser Beast Totem
3) ERP - Superstitchin'
4) Reckless Abandon
5) ERP - Witch Hunter
6) SPELL SUNDERRRRRR (Remember, CMD 15+CL. At this point you're looking around a 24 CMD for 9th CL spells. That means a 34 to dispel permanently. No problem for am mighty barbarian.)
7) Improved Sunder (Especially with a +2)
8) Beast Totem
9) ERP - Strength Surge (+9 means if you can beat the base check by at least 1 you dispel the whole freaking effect; this is amazingly good.)
10) Greater Beast Totem
11) ERP - Eater of Spells. (This is around where SoS/D's just get patently unfair, so the extra save is always good.)

Alternatively, you might want Unexpected Strike at 11th, it's LIKE Come and Get Me, but it works better with only one AoO a round, since you can only USE it 1/round anway.

That's my 2cp, anyways.


STR Ranger wrote:

I'll update and repost my Pouncing, CAGM, Superstitious, Dazing Assault Invulnerable Rager build for your guides' build section.

You can call it the 'Your Party Hates you cause you kill everything before they get a turn build'

:O me need see this.Me need see this NOW.

(Can you post a link to the old build?)


In my car ATM. I posted the old one in the 'Barbarians, the once and future combat kings' thread.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
STR Ranger wrote:
In my car ATM. I posted the old one in the 'Barbarians, the once and future combat kings' thread.

I would like to see your new one when you get the chance.


The old one is in the thread i mentioned. About the 33rd post.

I'd modded it since then to fix it vs disarm attempts (str surge) and guys using reach. I'll repost in a day or so when i can recheck UC, but raging brutality is going in....


Here's a nifty trick for a psychotic barbarian with high CON that makes Endurance actually useful:
If you're fighting near a body of water against an opponent who can't breath underwater (pirates, you say?), bullrush your opponent to get them on the water, grapple him to keep either of you from surfacing, hold a contest to see who can hold his breath for longer, emerge several minutes later with your drowned foe. Very hard to get the right conditions to do so, but it is kinda awesome in an evil way.
Also who needs swimming when you have a good speed and the ability to hold your breath for super long? Just cross rivers by calmly walking underwater. Feeling like the terminator and freaking out people that thought you would drown? Priceless.


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Okay, I have the front page done. It's located here.

As you can see, I'm planning to do multiple mini-guides depending on what archetypes of Barbarian I can think of. Is there any other ones you guys can think of that I haven't added yet?


Trinam wrote:
As you can see, I'm planning to do multiple mini-guides depending on what archetypes of Barbarian I can think of. Is there any other ones you guys can think of that I haven't added yet?

I really want to see any ideas on how to make a savage barbarian work. Something about the idea of nearly naked (well, unarmored - nakedness is optional) warrior kick ass and chew gum appeals to my weird tastes. Monk levels could help - you keep your monk mojo if you are no longer lawful, just can't advance it, but I've yet to start seriously looking through UC for more options.


The Shaman wrote:
Trinam wrote:
As you can see, I'm planning to do multiple mini-guides depending on what archetypes of Barbarian I can think of. Is there any other ones you guys can think of that I haven't added yet?
I really want to see any ideas on how to make a savage barbarian work. Something about the idea of nearly naked (well, unarmored - nakedness is optional) warrior kick ass and chew gum appeals to my weird tastes. Monk levels could help - you keep your monk mojo if you are no longer lawful, just can't advance it, but I've yet to start seriously looking through UC for more options.

I'll have to take a look at Savage Barbarian when I do the Unarmed Barbarian. As far as monk features go, I'd be looking at the Martial Artist archetype from UC to go alongside it. It doesn't have an alignment restriction.


Trinam wrote:
I'll have to take a look at Savage Barbarian when I do the Unarmed Barbarian. As far as monk features go, I'd be looking at the Martial Artist archetype from UC to go alongside it. It doesn't have an alignment restriction.

I checked it with a friend's UC yesterday and I'm not quite sold on it. MA may work well if you want to do a monk with a few barbarian levels, but for a barbarian heavy build it seems less than stellar.

Here is what soured me: first, you trade still mind, ergo can't take monastic training (or however it was called - the feat that counted half your non-monk levels for unarmed damage). You get bonuses to stunning fist, iirc (nice, but situational) and quivering palm (comes too late) and lose +2 to will saves versus some pretty nasty stuff. Then, at level 4, instead of ki and its various powers, you get an ability that lets you bypass DR/hardness or gives you bonuses vs one opponent - but it's keyed to your monk level. Ergo, it's not all that good for a barbarian - Ki powers like getting another attack in a flurry or a +4 AC might be a lot more handy.

I have to admit, though, some of the things the MA gets are nice. Immunity to being fatigued at level 5 is very, very nice for a rager :) .

Andoran

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Ravennus wrote:

The big one... Bolstered Resilience.

...
It only works for one attack a round, but it's GREAT for the Invuln Rager.
Being fatigued after sucks, so just figure out how to make yourself immune to fatigue!

1. Good For What Ails You.

2. Level of cleric for Community domain.

IMO the easiest way for a high-level caster to kill a DR-pimped barbarian is for him to prep up a few summons of monsters (with fewer, but massive, attacks) with Greater Invisibility, them sic them on you to grind down your massive mountain of hitpoints.

IMO the best barbarians are non-iconics: guys who alleviate their worthless armor-class by primarily using pole-arms, bows, or UMD/multiclasses for defenses like Mirror Image.


Mike Schneider wrote:
Ravennus wrote:

The big one... Bolstered Resilience.

...
It only works for one attack a round, but it's GREAT for the Invuln Rager.
Being fatigued after sucks, so just figure out how to make yourself immune to fatigue!

1. Good For What Ails You.

2. Level of cleric for Community domain.

IMO the easiest way for a high-level caster to kill a DR-pimped barbarian is for him to prep up a few summons of monsters (with fewer, but massive, attacks) with Greater Invisibility, them sic them on you to grind down your massive mountain of hitpoints.

IMO the best barbarians are non-iconics: guys who alleviate their worthless armor-class by primarily using pole-arms, bows, or UMD/multiclasses for defenses like Mirror Image.

I'd like to point out that if the best response to be had involves several full round actions and is still foiled by paying for a permanent 2nd level spell, the build is likely a good one.


Mike Schneider wrote:
IMO the easiest way for a high-level caster to kill a DR-pimped barbarian is for him to prep up a few summons of monsters (with fewer, but massive, attacks) with Greater Invisibility, them sic them on you to grind down your massive mountain of hitpoints.

Agreed. The barbarian does have the upper hand though. While the summoned monsters must whittle through his HP, the barbarian can just go rage cycle spell sunder crazy. Each sunder dispelling a summoned monster.

Mike Schneider wrote:
IMO the best barbarians are non-iconics: guys who alleviate their worthless armor-class by primarily using pole-arms, bows, or UMD/multiclasses for defenses like Mirror Image.

I think a lot of people overlook reach. If you are going to take come and get me, you are going to have a decent dex and combat reflexes. There is no reason then to not have a reach weapon to take advantage of all those AoO. Agree on the AC part too. I do invest in some natural armor but most of my enhancement bonus to my armor goes into fortification. I then make up for the low AC with UMD (traits that give rare class skills are awesome) wand of mirror Image.


To the OP, there is a barbarian guide in the advice forum. forgot about it.
Might be worth looking at.

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