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Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield has to be evil, right?


I believe that there was another thread along this line: The player character was planning on giving a druidic antagonist a steel shield as a "gift" (read: put a compulsion spell on the shield that required the druid to accept it) in the hopes that it'd botch the druid's spellcasting.

I think the GM ruled that it wouldn't work: The druid would only have to take the shield, not use or even equip it.


You can nitpick on if the part about doing it willingly or not = loosing class features. In case of paladin/cleric, it's defined as no, you can be tricked.

What you can't really argue, is that the spell clearly says they put it on. Some argue that it doesn't count till you're hit, but it sounded silly since you gain bonus ac and spell check from the moment you put it on.

I don't think atonement is needed for a druid to recover his stuff, just 24, so it's not really more evil than disarming a melee class other than monk.


Tyki11 wrote:

You can nitpick on if the part about doing it willingly or not = loosing class features. In case of paladin/cleric, it's defined as no, you can be tricked.

What you can't really argue, is that the spell clearly says they put it on. Some argue that it doesn't count till you're hit, but it sounded silly since you gain bonus ac and spell check from the moment you put it on.

I don't think atonement is needed for a druid to recover his stuff, just 24, so it's not really more evil than disarming a melee class other than monk.

Disarm does not last 24 hours and the melee can have a backup weapon. It is sort of trying to deceive nature into taking away druid powers which could be considered evil.


Mergy wrote:
Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield has to be evil, right?

What if the druid is evil and you are doing it to save orphans that the druid is killing because they built their orphanarium on his bird's nest?

Is it underhanded? Sure. Is it evil? No. Well, not inherently.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

/facepalm /facepalm /facepalm /facedesk


doctor_wu wrote:


Disarm does not last 24 hours and the melee can have a backup weapon. It is sort of trying to deceive nature into taking away druid powers which could be considered evil.

I suppose you have a point IF you'd like to point out the part where the druid has to willingly put on either instead of where it says he just has to..put on either.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Unless someone at Paizo has decided to add an Evil descriptor to Beguiling Gift, it's not evil.

It is, however, comedy gold.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

For those of you who think this is "OMG BAD/WRONG" lets look at teh numbers.
Beguiling Gift is a first level spell. A bard who is going to take it starts with an 18 CHA. (Doable) So the save is a 15 (10 +spell level + casting stat.) Okay, the Bard is human aand REALLY wants to be able to pull this stunt off. He takes his 2 first level feats as Spell focus (enchantment) and Greater Spell focus (same) now the DC is an awesome 17!

Now let's look at an encounter designed for a group of 1st and 2nd level characters. This is the fight in Act I of Devil We know IV.

Spoiler:
on a CR 2 fight, there are 2 lvl 1 druids, 2 Dire Rat Animal companions, and 2 other Dire Rats. If you want to waste a full round tring to get a druid to accept a shield with all that. Well......

The druid in the encounter has a +7 Will, meaning there is only a 50/50 chance of it working. Plus it either has to be cast defensively, or risk an AoO while it takes a full round, Plus the Bard is pretty much a one trick pony.

I don't think that it is overpowered at all.

Now cast it on a fighter or barbarian and give them a dagger. They drop their big weapon to use the small one until the spell runs out. And retrieving a weapon form the ground provokes.

Dark Archive

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Mergy wrote:
Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield has to be evil, right?

http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad87/Zhyd/DoubleFacepalmRickerPicard.jpg ?t=1246240870


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yar.

Mergy wrote:
Is it evil to...

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

*runs away screaming*

~P


Hmm could the soul of the druid rise and turn into a huecueva(bonus bestiary) because natrure rejected him if he dies within 24 hours. Then there is the whole undead creating thing making it evil. So now making your enemies fall and then killing them has other consequences.


No more evil than compelling someone to lie, or cheat, or steal... Doing any OTHER 'relatively' harmless act that their character had taken an oath not to do.

The fact that the druid's oath have consequences are completely beside the point :P

Out of curiosity... (I don't have a copy of that book) Does that spell have any kind of 'safeguard' about not doing things that your character absolutely wouldn't willing do? I think getting druids to use metal armor and shields, would require the same amount of compulsion as killing their animal compainion or burning down forest...


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Well...

Is it evil to start an 'is it evil?' thread, just because you can?


It is no more evil than using bluff to trick someone, which itself is not evil.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Midnight_Angel wrote:

Well...

Is it evil to start an 'is it evil?' thread, just because you can?

I'd go with definitely evil, yes.

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