paizo.com Recent Posts in Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?paizo.com Recent Posts in Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?2011-08-11T23:22:53Z2011-08-11T23:22:53ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Mergyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#162011-08-12T10:44:44Z2011-08-12T10:44:44Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Midnight_Angel wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Well...</p>
<p>Is it evil to start an 'is it evil?' thread, just because you can?
<br />
</blockquote><p>I'd go with definitely evil, yes.Midnight_Angel wrote:Well...
Is it evil to start an 'is it evil?' thread, just because you can?
I'd go with definitely evil, yes.Mergy2011-08-12T10:44:44ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?wraithstrike (alias of concerro)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#152011-08-12T09:56:37Z2011-08-12T09:56:37Z<p>It is no more evil than using bluff to trick someone, which itself is not evil.</p>It is no more evil than using bluff to trick someone, which itself is not evil.wraithstrike (alias of concerro)2011-08-12T09:56:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Midnight_Angelhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#142011-08-12T16:32:14Z2011-08-12T09:50:08Z<p>Well...</p>
<p>Is it evil to start an 'is it evil?' thread, just because you can?</p>Well...
Is it evil to start an 'is it evil?' thread, just because you can?Midnight_Angel2011-08-12T09:50:08ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?phantom1592https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#132011-08-12T09:43:52Z2011-08-12T09:43:52Z<p>No more evil than compelling someone to lie, or cheat, or steal... Doing any OTHER 'relatively' harmless act that their character had taken an oath not to do. </p>
<p>The fact that the druid's oath have consequences are completely beside the point :P</p>
<p>Out of curiosity... (I don't have a copy of that book) Does that spell have any kind of 'safeguard' about not doing things that your character absolutely wouldn't willing do? I think getting druids to use metal armor and shields, would require the same amount of compulsion as killing their animal compainion or burning down forest...</p>No more evil than compelling someone to lie, or cheat, or steal... Doing any OTHER 'relatively' harmless act that their character had taken an oath not to do.
The fact that the druid's oath have consequences are completely beside the point :P
Out of curiosity... (I don't have a copy of that book) Does that spell have any kind of 'safeguard' about not doing things that your character absolutely wouldn't willing do? I think getting druids to use metal armor and shields, would require the same...phantom15922011-08-12T09:43:52ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?doctor_wuhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#122011-08-12T01:55:28Z2011-08-12T01:55:28Z<p>Hmm could the soul of the druid rise and turn into a huecueva(bonus bestiary) because natrure rejected him if he dies within 24 hours. Then there is the whole undead creating thing making it evil. So now making your enemies fall and then killing them has other consequences.</p>Hmm could the soul of the druid rise and turn into a huecueva(bonus bestiary) because natrure rejected him if he dies within 24 hours. Then there is the whole undead creating thing making it evil. So now making your enemies fall and then killing them has other consequences.doctor_wu2011-08-12T01:55:28ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Piratehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#112011-08-12T13:26:13Z2011-08-12T01:50:12Z<p>Yar.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mergy wrote:</div><blockquote>Is it evil to...</blockquote><p>AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!
<p><span class=messageboard-bigger>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!</span></p>
<p>•runs away screaming•</p>
<p>~P</p>Yar.
Mergy wrote:Is it evil to...
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!
*runs away screaming*
~PPirate2011-08-12T01:50:12ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?blundithhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#102011-08-12T13:26:02Z2011-08-12T01:34:25Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mergy wrote:</div><blockquote> Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield <i>has</i> to be evil, right? </blockquote><p>http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad87/Zhyd/DoubleFacepalmRickerPicard.jpg ?t=1246240870Mergy wrote:Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield has to be evil, right?
http://i924.photobucket.com/albums/ad87/Zhyd/DoubleFacepalmRickerPicard.jpg ?t=1246240870blundith2011-08-12T01:34:25ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Tim Statlerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#92011-08-12T01:07:07Z2011-08-12T01:07:07Z<p>For those of you who think this is "OMG BAD/WRONG" lets look at teh numbers.
<br />
Beguiling Gift is a first level spell. A bard who is going to take it starts with an 18 CHA. (Doable) So the save is a 15 (10 +spell level + casting stat.) Okay, the Bard is human aand REALLY wants to be able to pull this stunt off. He takes his 2 first level feats as Spell focus (enchantment) and Greater Spell focus (same) now the DC is an awesome 17!</p>
<p>Now let's look at an encounter designed for a group of 1st and 2nd level characters. This is the fight in Act I of Devil We know IV.
<br />
[Spoiler omitted]
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The druid in the encounter has a +7 Will, meaning there is only a 50/50 chance of it working. Plus it either has to be cast defensively, or risk an AoO while it takes a full round, Plus the Bard is pretty much a one trick pony. </p>
<p>I don't think that it is overpowered at all. </p>
<p>Now cast it on a fighter or barbarian and give them a dagger. They drop their big weapon to use the small one until the spell runs out. And retrieving a weapon form the ground provokes.</p>For those of you who think this is "OMG BAD/WRONG" lets look at teh numbers.
Beguiling Gift is a first level spell. A bard who is going to take it starts with an 18 CHA. (Doable) So the save is a 15 (10 +spell level + casting stat.) Okay, the Bard is human aand REALLY wants to be able to pull this stunt off. He takes his 2 first level feats as Spell focus (enchantment) and Greater Spell focus (same) now the DC is an awesome 17!
Now let's look at an encounter designed for a group of 1st and...Tim Statler2011-08-12T01:07:07ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Heymitchhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#82011-08-12T13:26:07Z2011-08-12T00:53:18Z<p>Unless someone at Paizo has decided to add an Evil descriptor to Beguiling Gift, it's not evil.</p>
<p>It is, however, comedy gold.</p>Unless someone at Paizo has decided to add an Evil descriptor to Beguiling Gift, it's not evil.
It is, however, comedy gold.Heymitch2011-08-12T00:53:18ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Tyki11https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#72011-08-12T00:28:38Z2011-08-12T00:28:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">doctor_wu wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Disarm does not last 24 hours and the melee can have a backup weapon. It is sort of trying to deceive nature into taking away druid powers which could be considered evil. </blockquote><p>I suppose you have a point IF you'd like to point out the part where the druid has to willingly put on either instead of where it says he just has to..put on either.doctor_wu wrote:Disarm does not last 24 hours and the melee can have a backup weapon. It is sort of trying to deceive nature into taking away druid powers which could be considered evil.
I suppose you have a point IF you'd like to point out the part where the druid has to willingly put on either instead of where it says he just has to..put on either.Tyki112011-08-12T00:28:38ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Jeremiziahhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#62011-08-12T13:25:43Z2011-08-12T00:18:47Z<p>/facepalm /facepalm /facepalm /facedesk</p>/facepalm /facepalm /facepalm /facedeskJeremiziah2011-08-12T00:18:47ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Bascariahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#52011-08-12T00:15:06Z2011-08-12T00:15:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mergy wrote:</div><blockquote> Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield <i>has</i> to be evil, right? </blockquote><p>What if the druid is evil and you are doing it to save orphans that the druid is killing because they built their orphanarium on his bird's nest?
<p>Is it underhanded? Sure. Is it evil? No. Well, not inherently.</p>Mergy wrote:Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield has to be evil, right?
What if the druid is evil and you are doing it to save orphans that the druid is killing because they built their orphanarium on his bird's nest? Is it underhanded? Sure. Is it evil? No. Well, not inherently.Bascaria2011-08-12T00:15:06ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?doctor_wuhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#42011-08-12T00:12:18Z2011-08-12T00:12:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tyki11 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> You can nitpick on if the part about doing it willingly or not = loosing class features. In case of paladin/cleric, it's defined as no, you can be tricked.</p>
<p>What you can't really argue, is that the spell clearly says they put it on. Some argue that it doesn't count till you're hit, but it sounded silly since you gain bonus ac and spell check from the moment you put it on.</p>
<p>I don't think atonement is needed for a druid to recover his stuff, just 24, so it's not really more evil than disarming a melee class other than monk. </blockquote><p>Disarm does not last 24 hours and the melee can have a backup weapon. It is sort of trying to deceive nature into taking away druid powers which could be considered evil.Tyki11 wrote:You can nitpick on if the part about doing it willingly or not = loosing class features. In case of paladin/cleric, it's defined as no, you can be tricked.
What you can't really argue, is that the spell clearly says they put it on. Some argue that it doesn't count till you're hit, but it sounded silly since you gain bonus ac and spell check from the moment you put it on.
I don't think atonement is needed for a druid to recover his stuff, just 24, so it's not really more evil...doctor_wu2011-08-12T00:12:18ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Tyki11https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#32011-08-11T23:53:37Z2011-08-11T23:53:37Z<p>You can nitpick on if the part about doing it willingly or not = loosing class features. In case of paladin/cleric, it's defined as no, you can be tricked.</p>
<p>What you can't really argue, is that the spell clearly says they put it on. Some argue that it doesn't count till you're hit, but it sounded silly since you gain bonus ac and spell check from the moment you put it on.</p>
<p>I don't think atonement is needed for a druid to recover his stuff, just 24, so it's not really more evil than disarming a melee class other than monk.</p>You can nitpick on if the part about doing it willingly or not = loosing class features. In case of paladin/cleric, it's defined as no, you can be tricked.
What you can't really argue, is that the spell clearly says they put it on. Some argue that it doesn't count till you're hit, but it sounded silly since you gain bonus ac and spell check from the moment you put it on.
I don't think atonement is needed for a druid to recover his stuff, just 24, so it's not really more evil than disarming...Tyki112011-08-11T23:53:37ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Arevashtihttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#22011-08-11T23:49:42Z2011-08-11T23:49:42Z<p>I believe that there was another thread along this line: The player character was planning on giving a druidic antagonist a steel shield as a "gift" (read: put a compulsion spell on the shield that required the druid to accept it) in the hopes that it'd botch the druid's spellcasting.</p>
<p>I think the GM ruled that it wouldn't work: The druid would only have to <i>take</i> the shield, not use or even equip it.</p>I believe that there was another thread along this line: The player character was planning on giving a druidic antagonist a steel shield as a "gift" (read: put a compulsion spell on the shield that required the druid to accept it) in the hopes that it'd botch the druid's spellcasting.
I think the GM ruled that it wouldn't work: The druid would only have to take the shield, not use or even equip it.Arevashti2011-08-11T23:49:42ZForums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Is it evil to hand a druid a steel shield?Mergyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2movz?Is-it-evil-to-hand-a-druid-a-steel-shield#12011-08-11T23:22:53Z2011-08-11T23:22:53Z<p>Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield <i>has</i> to be evil, right?</p>Compelling a druid with a spell to use a steel shield has to be evil, right?Mergy2011-08-11T23:22:53Z