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WOTC, publishers of the very first city book for an RPG, ever


D&D 4th Edition (and Beyond)

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Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

http://dorkland.blogspot.com/2011/08/dungeons-dragons-returns-to-legendary. html

According to that relase, WOTC is coming out with the neverwinter city setting. The VERY first city supplement for any RPG. It says so in the relase.

*breaks out my copy of city state of the invincible overlord and the thieves world boxed set from back in the 80s.*

Grand Lodge

you have a space between the "legendary." and the "html"

http://dorkland.blogspot.com/2011/08/more-on-neverwinter-and-d.html

thanks for sharing, v. interesting

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

link


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Given that they've actually released 4e supplements focused on individual settlements (Vor Rukoth, Hammerfast, etc.) I'm inclined to chalk this up to a mistake on the part of their copy team rather than an insidious plot by the WotC guys to trick you into thinking that this is the first book about a city ever (which is pretty much what the blog post's author concludes as well).

Let's not be the sort of people who decide to be upset over something like this.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Yea, weird wording. Maybe they meant first ever set in Neverwinter. Just off the top of my head I can think of City System from Wizards/TSR and the Zobeck Gazetteer from Open Design and I am sure there are many others.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pyrrhic Victory wrote:
Yea, weird wording. Maybe they meant first ever set in Neverwinter. Just off the top of my head I can think of City System from Wizards/TSR and the Zobeck Gazetteer from Open Design and I am sure there are many others.

They probably meant the first for 4e.


This is just a really bad typo and it is refutably wrong.


Typical. You have to wonder if they're intentionally lying or whether they just don't know any better.

But I can't imagine how this could have slipped through.


(edited, clarified)
I've just had a look around the Wizards of the Coast product page, and the explore neverwinter minisite, and I couldn't find the 'first RPG city' claim anywhere obvious at either location.
Looks like someone at Wizards is on the ball and edited it out.
Plenty of other sites still with copies of the original release though...


KaeYoss wrote:
Typical. You have to wonder if they're intentionally lying or whether they just don't know any better.

No, you don't. It's the sort of thing that no one would lie about. It's just an example of a product being handed off to a copy team and a mistake cropping up.

Quote:
But I can't imagine how this could have slipped through.

Really? Pretty much everyone else can.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Ya I gotta chalk this one up to "wow, that's why we hate it when marketting doesn't talk to us ..."

Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, anyone?
Ptolus?
City of the Invincible Overlord?

Few dozen others ...

Taldor

Just some marketing drone getting their wires crossed. Not a big deal.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.
KaeYoss wrote:

Typical. You have to wonder if they're intentionally lying or whether they just don't know any better.

But I can't imagine how this could have slipped through.

Casts Transmute Mole Hill to Mountain.

Qadira

VagrantWhisper wrote:

Ya I gotta chalk this one up to "wow, that's why we hate it when marketting doesn't talk to us ..."

Volo's Guide to Waterdeep, anyone?
Ptolus?
City of the Invincible Overlord?

Few dozen others ...

Yup, before anyone knew much more about Neverwinter than what was contained in the computer rpg, there was this other Forgotten Realms city in the spotlight.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I know it was just a slip up from someone at WOTC writing it up. But they should really know better, they do put out the worlds most popular RPG. As an RPG company they should know about what came out before.

Very embarrassing.


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

(edited, clarified)

I've just had a look around the Wizards of the Coast product page, and the explore neverwinter minisite, and I couldn't find the 'first RPG city' claim anywhere obvious at either location.
Looks like someone at Wizards is on the ball and edited it out.
Plenty of other sites still with copies of the original release though...

It's still there, several paragraphs down in the press release. Directly copy pasted from the release this morning:

WotC wrote:


It is the first-ever RPG book focused solely on one city and conveniently presents Neverwinter content in a single hardcover format containing information for both players and DMs.

I agree with Joana that they probably meant to say, "the first-ever 4e book focused solely..."

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is not news.


As far as I know, no books have ever been completely dedicated to Neverwinter in the past, so perhaps that's what they meant.

I wonder if city maps of Neverwinter are still illegal in 4th ed Forgotten realms; Personally, I always though that was a poor excuse not to include any (ever... AFAIK) for the sake of grasping the layout of the city, even if it isn't something the DM hands-out to the players as something they bought...

'findel


DeathQuaker wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

(edited, clarified)

I've just had a look around the Wizards of the Coast product page, and the explore neverwinter minisite, and I couldn't find the 'first RPG city' claim anywhere obvious at either location.
Looks like someone at Wizards is on the ball and edited it out.
Plenty of other sites still with copies of the original release though...

It's still there, several paragraphs down in the press release. Directly copy pasted from the release this morning:

WotC wrote:


It is the first-ever RPG book focused solely on one city and conveniently presents Neverwinter content in a single hardcover format containing information for both players and DMs.
I agree with Joana that they probably meant to say, "the first-ever 4e book focused solely..."

Link to this item on the Wizards of the Coast website please? If they are miss-selling this, I want to email the UK Advertising standards agency...

The most recent press release I see on the D&D press release page seems to be dated 6th June. Maybe because I'm a UK user I'm seeing different version of the site...


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Laurefindel wrote:
As far as I know, no books have ever been completely dedicated to Neverwinter in the past, so perhaps that's what they meant.

"...the first-ever RPG book focused solely on this city?" That's even more likely than substituting RPG for 4e. Easy to do when you're editing text down from "focused solely on this legendary city of the Realms" or whatever.


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Link to this item on the Wizards of the Coast website please? If they are miss-selling this, I want to email the UK Advertising standards agency...

The most recent press release I see on the D&D press release page seems to be dated 6th June. Maybe because I'm a UK user I'm seeing different version of the site...

Are you f~%&ing serious?


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Link to this item on the Wizards of the Coast website please? If they are miss-selling this, I want to email the UK Advertising standards agency...

The most recent press release I see on the D&D press release page seems to be dated 6th June. Maybe because I'm a UK user I'm seeing different version of the site...

Please don't waste a consumer watchdog agency's time and effort on something that literally does not matter in any substantive fashion to anyone, at all. They have real concerns to deal with - malicious scams that actually cheat people out of their money, property, time, or health. It would be like calling 911 (or 112 in your case) because your pizza delivery guy took the wrong route to your place and was 10 minutes late with your dinner.


Nefarious plot there. They were so close to fooling everyone too...


Scott Betts wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Link to this item on the Wizards of the Coast website please? If they are miss-selling this, I want to email the UK Advertising standards agency...

The most recent press release I see on the D&D press release page seems to be dated 6th June. Maybe because I'm a UK user I'm seeing different version of the site...
Please don't waste a consumer watchdog agency's time and effort on something that literally does not matter in any substantive fashion to anyone, at all. They have real concerns to deal with - malicious scams that actually cheat people out of their money, property, time, or health. It would be like calling 911 (or 112 in your case) because your pizza delivery guy took the wrong route to your place and was 10 minutes late with your dinner.

(edited)

Claiming something is the 'first ever' in an attempt to boost sales when it is quite demonstrably not sounds a lot like a scam to cheat people out of their money to me... At the very least, if it was an unintended error by some copywriter, it is a (in my opinion) serious misrepresentation of the facts which needs someone Wizards of the Coast will actually notice to give them a poke to correct it.

That said, I'm still waiting for a link which shows Wizards of the Coast is visibly running this reportedly misleading line of information on their site or Neverwinter mini-site. If Wizards of the Coast (the company trying to sell this item) isn't actively making this claim right now then I don't see anything worth my reporting to the Advertising standards agency.

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I seriously doubt that whether or not it's the "first ever" has a material effect on any person's decision to purchase and/or sales. That's what we lawyers call "mere puffery" and does not go to the core of the deal. Every product on the market makes claims like "best at removing dirt" or "first to use the active-touch system!" and consumers are sophisticated enough to realize that such claims are worth as much as the ink with which they are written. Do you seriously think there's a group of consumers who are saying "I totally wouldn't buy this product, but now that I know it's the first ever rpg supplement for a city, I must have it!" What exactly does (not) being the first ever add to the value of this product?

Step away from the kool-aide, Charles. That stuff is no good.


Sebastian wrote:
...What exactly does (not) being the first ever add to the value of this product?...

I'd suggest a perception of being the 'first ever' might well add collectible value. It also might generate an aura of a product being cutting edge, cool, and fashionable... It seems to me that any one of these might help increase sales.

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

People stupid enough to purchase a product they wouldn't otherwise buy because of potential collectible value (particularly those who aren't already collecting in the industry, since those are the only ones who would not be aware that there are prior products in print that are supplements devoted to a particular city) or advertising that makes the product seem cutting edge/cool/fashionable (which is the function of advertising generally) have much more significant problems than being ripped off by WotC. Like finding a desirable place under an overpass to sleep, not drowning in a puddle of their own drool while sleeping there, or exercising their property rights with respect to the Brooklyn Bridge.


What about the raft of "new and improved" products? It's either one or the other. By the very definition of the words, it can't be both. Clearly, all these companies need to be sued out of existence as well, since they're all perpetrating scams.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not a comment on the original claim of the book in question of this thread, but as far the first ever for an RPG...

I think Judge's Guild's "City-State of the Invincible Overlord" was first, followed closely by Chaosium's version of Thieves World's "Sanctuary", then perhaps TSR's "Lankhmar"...

Unless I missed one somewhere...


Charles Evans 25 wrote:


Claiming something is the 'first ever' in an attempt to boost sales when it is quite demonstrably not sounds a lot like a scam to cheat people out of their money to me... At the very least, if it was an unintended error by some copywriter, it is a (in my opinion) serious misrepresentation of the facts which needs someone Wizards of the Coast will actually notice to give them a poke to correct it.

No, apparently that's perfectly OK to do, and if you don't agree, people may insult you.

Charles Evans 25 wrote:


That said, I'm still waiting for a link which shows Wizards of the Coast is visibly running this reportedly misleading line of information on their site or Neverwinter mini-site. If Wizards of the Coast (the company trying to sell this item) isn't actively making this claim right now then I don't see anything worth my reporting to the Advertising standards agency.

Haven't found anything on their own sites, but the press release is still on sites that provide press releases, and unless I'm very wrong about this or this is a very elaborate hoax, the Press Release originates from wotc

Look it up here on PR Newswire


Since WotC themselves made at least three books focused on single cities for 3.5 (Sharn, Stormreach, and Waterdeep), this is clearly a simple mistake. No reason to get upset about it, unless they don't change the text when they're made aware of it.


Sebastian wrote:
People stupid enough to purchase a product they wouldn't otherwise buy because of potential collectible value (particularly those who aren't already collecting in the industry, since those are the only ones who would not be aware that there are prior products in print that are supplements devoted to a particular city) or advertising that makes the product seem cutting edge/cool/fashionable (which is the function of advertising generally) have much more significant problems than being ripped off...

Your thesis (if I understand you correctly) is that anyone susceptible has much bigger problems anyway, so doing anything which might help them on a lesser count is pointless is something I differ with you on here. That's a matter of my personal opinion though...

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Your thesis (if I understand you correctly) that anyone susceptible has much bigger problems anyway, so doing anything which might help them on a lesser count is pointless is something I differ with you on here. That's a matter of my personal opinion though...

No, my thesis is that no one would ever purchase a product on that basis. The only people who care are the 4e haters and, well, haters gonna hate.


KaeYoss wrote:

Haven't found anything on their own sites, but the press release is still on sites that provide press releases, and unless I'm very wrong about this or this is a very elaborate hoax, the Press Release originates from wotc

Look it up here on PR Newswire

The continuing absence of locateable references to this on their own sites suggests to me that if this did originate with Wizards of the Coast, they've moved to ammend their initial claim.

I would have thought that they'd have contacted other sites by now (such as the one you linked to) to ask them to update their information, but it's been a long weekend with GenCon, and (to indulge in a moment of speculation) maybe someone in publicity at Wizards of the Coast (or sites which run Wizards of the Coast releases) is half-asleep still...


Sebastian wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Your thesis (if I understand you correctly) is that anyone susceptible has much bigger problems anyway, so doing anything which might help them on a lesser count is pointless is something I differ with you on here. That's a matter of my personal opinion though...

No, my thesis is that no one would ever purchase a product on that basis. The only people who care are the 4e haters and, well, haters gonna hate.

You're saying that nobody would ever buy a product (who otherwise would not have done so) because they were told it was 'new' or the 'first ever'?

Cheliax Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

I'm saying haters gonna hate, and that's all this is.


Sounds like someone needs a hug (but not an insulting hug)!

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