What is a targetting platform? (Ultimate Combat siege engine rules)

[Kain Darkwind]

On page 160 of Ultimate Combat, it says that creatures that have ranks in Knowledge (engineering) or use a targeting platform (see below) are not adversely affected by their size when firing direct fire ranged siege weapons.

And that's the only time a targeting platform is mentioned in the book. I did a search of the pdf to be sure. So what is a targeting platform?

[Kain Darkwind]

Nobody wants to field this one?

[Lurk3r]

Having not read UC yet, what it sounds like is some kind of structure to resist the recoil of the siege weapon in question or improve its accuracy by steadying it. Imagine a ballista that you wheel around on the battlefield versus one which is bolted down. When you fire the wheeled ballista, the recoil will push it back. This has an adverse affect on aiming, as well as the danger of smashing into the crew. Bolting the weapon down allows whatever it's stuck on to absorb the shock.

That's my impression anyway.

[Klebert L. Hall]

Try the UC errata thread in the Products forum, and prepare yourself for a long wait.
-Kle.

[Ravingdork]

My players and I just ran into this problem last night. They asked me if their ship ballistas had firing platforms and all I could say was "what's that?"

EDIT: Found a FIRING PLATFORM mentioned twice in the Skull and Shackles Player's Guide. Could that be it? Relevant quote below:

For an additional 8,000 gp, a galley or warship can be fitted with a ram and castles with firing platforms fore, aft, and amidships. Each of these firing platforms can hold a single Large or Huge direct-fire or indirect-fire siege engine. Siege engines on the fore and aft firing platforms can be swiveled to fire out the sides of the ship or either forward or aft, depending on their position. A siege engine on the amidships can be swiveled to fire out either side of the ship.

[Wraithcannon]

So that's it? Or has their been any other updates?

[Ravingdork]

Though I don't recall where, a developer clarified that a targeting platform and a firing platform weren't the same thing after all.

[RJGrady]

I was just going to ignore that piece of text, but I can't figure out how to implement the feat Siege Gunner without knowing what a targeting platform is.

Quote:

Siege Gunner (Combat)
Aiming outsized siege weapons poses little difficulty for you.
Prerequisites: Siege Engineer, Profession (siege engineer) 5 ranks.
Benefit: You take no size penalty for aiming a direct-fire siege weapon larger than yourself. If you operate an indirect-fire siege weapon and miss, you misdirect fire by 1 square per range increment.
Normal: Direct-fire weapons impose a –2 attack roll penalty per size category by which the weapon is larger than the creature aiming it. An indirect-fire weapon that misses misdirects fire by 1d4 squares per range increment.

[Xaratherus]

I cannot find a mention of it, so my guess is that it's probably text referencing something that got cut in the final printing.

I think it's fairly easy to determine what it's generallysupposed to be, even if the details are missing: A targeting platform historically was a shielded location that still gave a clear view of the battlefield. You'd have one person inside the platform who was responsible for calling out aim. It would often be outfitted with a telescope for sightings and a rough protractor for calculating angles of trajectory and such.

Given the context of the passage it seems likely that a siege engine that was fitted with a targeting platform would offset some of the penalties.

[RJGrady]

The thing is, Siege Gunner would be a terrible feat unless you assumed siege weapons didn't generally have targeting platforms. So, they must be pretty expensive, I think, and must come with their own disadvantages. Are they portable? Are they something that can be mounted shipboard? Skulls & Shackles just doesn't mention them, but reiterates the rule that if you have ranks in Knowledge (engineering) you don't need one.

Hey, that means you would pretty much have to go out of your way to need Siege Gunner in the first place, since you can qualify for Siege Engineer with Profession (siege engineer) or Knowledge (engineering), and you need Siege Engineer first. So, if you hated engineering, Profession (siege engineer) 5 ranks and Knowledge (engineering) 1 rank would seem to make the issue moot. That, in turn, raises the question, is Siege Gunner a really terrible feat?

[CalebTGordan]

Siege Gunner is still useful if you are using indirect-fire siege engines, but honestly isn't worth it if you are just using ballistas or other direct fire engines.

It should be addressed, but probably would be low on the list because of how busy the team is.

[Darkeness66]

This one has been floating around awhile, but I ran into the issue myself so based on my research here is a link: wikipedia ... Ballista

If you scroll down you will see a picture of a small ballista on a stand. That is the targeting platform being referenced I believe.

Here is some relevant text that caught my eye:

Quote:

As the role of battlefield artillery became more sophisticated, a universal joint (which was invented just for this function) was integrated into the ballista's stand, allowing the operators to alter the trajectory and firing direction of the ballista as required without a lengthy disassembly of the machine.

How much would this cost? I would say about 1/5 the price of the ballista itself (not having the actual price handy).

As to this item making feats & skills irrelevant. I would say that yes it would. Perhaps a better way to handle the issue would be the targeting platform gives a bonus to hit, making it useful to the trained and untrained alike.

[Cantriped]

Has the omission of rules for what a Targeting Platform is from ultimate combat (page 160) been resolved yet? I found the reference to it in the PRD under direct-fire siege engines, but I can't find an errata or FAQ regarding it.