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Casting defensively


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


Im just wondering what purpose this serves, since you can almost always take a 5ft step backwards to get out of a threatened area anyway.

Unless you are fighting a large sized creature or higher that has a special reach....

Cheliax

Almost is the key.

Almost always a melee-weak caster would stay way out of AoO risk.
Almost always you haven't your back pressed against the wall, being overrun by a swarm of critters.

Almost.

Casting defensively is that last-ditch option you need in desperate times, or that extra trick you use to pull off a sorely needed win despite being in a close pinch.
Just because you have it available doesn't mean you should always risk so much.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

And you can take a 5 foot step with difficult terrain. You must to cast defensively to make a touch attack.

I think both are powerfull reasons.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gabriel Albasombria wrote:

And you can take a 5 foot step with difficult terrain. You must to cast defensively to make a touch attack.

I think both are powerfull reasons.

You can't take 5 foot step in difficult terrain without a feat.

Also my magus casts defensively pretty much all the time.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Or the opponent has Step Up feat.

"I five-foot back and I CONTROL THE UNIVERSE, FOR I AM A GODWIZARD!"
*Step Up*
";_;"


Gabriel Albasombria wrote:

. You must to cast defensively to make a touch attack.

Really? I don't think so.

EDIT: You're right. I've done this wrong since 3.0 it seems.


Hmm step up doesnt seem to work with reach weapons though.

How common is difficult terrain anyway? I get the impression most DMs dont use it very often.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Question wrote:

Hmm step up doesnt seem to work with reach weapons though.

How common is difficult terrain anyway? I get the impression most DMs dont use it very often.

Step Up works against the most common tactic - a caster is standing next to a character with a non-reach weapon, takes a 5fs to get out of threatened area, casts a spell. If the opponent has Step Up, he makes an immediate 5fs and is again right next to the caster.


Gorbacz wrote:
Question wrote:

Hmm step up doesnt seem to work with reach weapons though.

How common is difficult terrain anyway? I get the impression most DMs dont use it very often.

Step Up works against the most common tactic - a caster is standing next to a character with a non-reach weapon, takes a 5fs to get out of threatened area, casts a spell. If the opponent has Step Up, he makes an immediate 5fs and is again right next to the caster.

Right, but a fighter with a longspear or other reach weapon cant use it to threaten a caster doing a 5ft step. Not sure why...greatswords are way overused as it is.


Difficult terrain is quite common in my groups. I use it a lot - especially when in a forest, in the mountains, in a ruin, in a sewer, in a swamp, on a winding stair ways, in ...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Question wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Question wrote:

Hmm step up doesnt seem to work with reach weapons though.

How common is difficult terrain anyway? I get the impression most DMs dont use it very often.

Step Up works against the most common tactic - a caster is standing next to a character with a non-reach weapon, takes a 5fs to get out of threatened area, casts a spell. If the opponent has Step Up, he makes an immediate 5fs and is again right next to the caster.
Right, but a fighter with a longspear or other reach weapon cant use it to threaten a caster doing a 5ft step. Not sure why...greatswords are way overused as it is.

Well if you hunt casters, reach weapons are not the best choice - you want them up close and personal, not at a distance :)


Gorbacz wrote:
Question wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Question wrote:

Hmm step up doesnt seem to work with reach weapons though.

How common is difficult terrain anyway? I get the impression most DMs dont use it very often.

Step Up works against the most common tactic - a caster is standing next to a character with a non-reach weapon, takes a 5fs to get out of threatened area, casts a spell. If the opponent has Step Up, he makes an immediate 5fs and is again right next to the caster.
Right, but a fighter with a longspear or other reach weapon cant use it to threaten a caster doing a 5ft step. Not sure why...greatswords are way overused as it is.
Well if you hunt casters, reach weapons are not the best choice - you want them up close and personal, not at a distance :)

Without the step up feat it makes no difference though. Either way you threaten them so they have to cast defensively.


Casting defensively also leaves you the option of casting something like invisibility and still being able to move your full move speed.

Technically, touch attacks don't require casting defensively in and of themselves. It is possible to cast the spell first while outside the enemy's range and then move up to the enemy to make the touch attack. It's the fact that if your opponent is right there by you already, if you want to cast the spell and actually use it in the same round, a single 5' step to step away isn't going to help you.


sunshadow21 wrote:

Casting defensively also leaves you the option of casting something like invisibility and still being able to move your full move speed.

Technically, touch attacks don't require casting defensively in and of themselves. It is possible to cast the spell first while outside the enemy's range and then move up to the enemy to make the touch attack. It's the fact that if your opponent is right there by you already, if you want to cast the spell and actually use it in the same round, a single 5' step to step away isn't going to help you.

Arent most touch attack spells pretty MEH anyway? Inflict wounds comes to mind...

Andoran

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Question wrote:
Right, but a fighter with a longspear or other reach weapon cant use it to threaten a caster doing a 5ft step. Not sure why...

Is there a reason why a fighter with a longspear wouldn'y be able to threaten a magician casting a spell who had stepped 5' away previously? Is this a rule I am missing?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DigitalMage wrote:
Question wrote:
Right, but a fighter with a longspear or other reach weapon cant use it to threaten a caster doing a 5ft step. Not sure why...
Is there a reason why a fighter with a longspear wouldn'y be able to threaten a magician casting a spell who had stepped 5' away previously? Is this a rule I am missing?

I think the person you're quoting was saying that if the caster is beside the fighter who has a reach weapon then the caster isn't being threatened. If they're not being threatened then they have no need to step away before they cast, and in fact if they did step away, they would now actually be threatened by the fighter.

They seem to be complaining that characers with reach weapons don't threaten adjactent squares so people use Greatswords more than they would if reach weapons threatened everything out to thier reach value.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Aaargh, am I dumb or what.

Armor spikes + reach weapon. You threaten both 10' and 5'.

Andoran

Step Up and rare situations were a good enough reason. But now there is an even greater reason why casting defensively is so important:

Magus.

Andoran

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Ampersandrew wrote:
I think the person you're quoting was saying that if the caster is beside the fighter who has a reach weapon then the caster isn't being threatened. If they're not being threatened then they have no need to step away before they cast

Ah, if that is the case then that makes sense.

Gorbacz wrote:
Armor spikes + reach weapon. You threaten both 10' and 5'.

Or Improved Unarmed Strike + Reach Weapon; something my Druid could do :)


Gorbacz wrote:

Aaargh, am I dumb or what.

Armor spikes + reach weapon. You threaten both 10' and 5'.

Or glaive-wielding half-orc with toothy alternate racial trait.

Or now, with UC available, archer with Improved Snap Shot.


DigitalMage wrote:
Question wrote:
Right, but a fighter with a longspear or other reach weapon cant use it to threaten a caster doing a 5ft step. Not sure why...
Is there a reason why a fighter with a longspear wouldn'y be able to threaten a magician casting a spell who had stepped 5' away previously? Is this a rule I am missing?

Okay lets say a fighter with a long spear is 10 inches away, threatening a caster.

The caster takes a 5ft step backwards out of the threat range to cast a spell.

The fighter CANNOT use step up to move 5 ft forward to threatne him again, since it only works if you are adjacent to the target.


Speaking of reach... Why the hell the haft of a reach weapon, like a Spear, cannot be used as a club or quarterstaff by default? People was trained to use them like that in the old days... That would make the point of threatening an adjacent caster moot.

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